AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/)
-   Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/)
-   -   Official Sanyo PLV-Z3000 120Hz 1080p thread (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1077336-official-sanyo-plv-z3000-120hz-1080p-thread.html)

ResOGlas 10-20-2008 09:52 PM

Thought it was worth bringing some light to this seemingly less talked about PJ. It uses the same 120Hz Cine2fine panels as the Epson 6500/7500UB, and the Panasonic AE3000U. The Panasonic's are known for not being so great for gaming due to input lag (which is why they added a game mode to try to compete), and the new Epson is using a Silicon Optics HQV Reon VX, which is a darn nice processor, but also quite known for lag in the gaming world. The Sanyo PLV-Z3000 is sticking with the tried and true Pixelworks DNX processing. Pixelworks DNX may not be the most advanced processor on the market today for movies, but it is lightning fast. If you're looking for a PJ with the great black levels, high contrast ratio and 120Hz panels, but gaming is a top priority... I wouldn't write this one off your list.

MSRP US$3295
Available 11/28/2008 in Japan, Early December US




Specification
Model number PLV-Z3000
System RGB liquid crystal shutter protection system
Optical system Dichroic mirror separation / Prism synthesis system

LCD Panel
Type New generation inorganic LCD panel C2FINE™
Size 0.74 inch x 3, Aspect Ratio 16:9
Drive System Polysilicon TFT Active Iris
Pixel Count 2,073,600 (1920 x 1080) x 3 ; Total pixels 6,220,800
Pixel Array Stripe
Projection Lens Manual Zoom (1-2.0x) f=22.6-45.3mm, F2.0-F3.0
Light Source 165 W UHP Lamp
Screen Size*1
(Projection Distance) Minimum 40” - Maximum 300”
(approx.1.2 to 18.4m)
Color Reproducibility Full color (1.07 billion colors)
Brightness*2 1,200 ANSI lumens*3
Uniformity*2 85%*4
Contrast Ratio*2
(Full On/Full Off) 65,000:1*5
Noise Output*2 Approx. 19 dBA (Lamp mode : Eco)*6
Scanning Frequency Horizontal: 15-80KHz, Vertical: 50-100Hz, Dot Clock: 100 MHz or less

Terminals
PC Input Analog RGB input x 1 ; Mini D-sub 15-pin x 1
Video Input
Digital input(x2); HDMI x 2 [HDMI 1.3b (Deep Color, x.v.Color™)compatible]
Component input(x2); 3RCA (Y/Cb/Cr) x2
S-video input(x1); S-video x1
Composite input(x1); RCA x1
Controller
input/output,
and other
Service port ; Mini DIN 8-pin x 1 (for service-use)
Power switch ON/OFF (see-saw switch)
Operating Temperature 5 ~ 35℃
Power Source AC 100~120V、AC200~240V(±10%), 50/60 Hz
Power Consumption 257W
Dimensions 400.0 (w) x 146.0 (h) x 346.0 (d) (not including protruding parts)
Weight 7.5kg
Main Accessories
Wireless remote control (AA battery x2)
Removable power cord
Operating manual
Warranty
*1 When projecting in 16:9.
*2 Figures shown are as of the time of shipping, and listed in accordance with pattern for data projectors JIS X 6911:2003.
Measurement method/measurement conditions are based on appendix 2.
*3 When in ‘Dynamic’ video mode
*4 When lens shift is in center
*5 When in ‘Dynamic’ video mode
*6 When in lamp mode ‘Cinema Black’
* Specifications as of July 31, 2008, subject to change.
* C2Fine is a trademark of the Seiko Epson Corporation.
* x.v.Color is a trademark.
* All product names and company names are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective companies.


http://www.sanyo-lcdp.com/english/pr...000/z3000.html

BRAC 10-21-2008 08:35 AM

I know what you mean, not much talk on this one yet. December is still a ways away though. If the new iris is an improvement, it should be a great little projector.

eliwankenobi 10-21-2008 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Thought it was worth bringing some light to this seemingly less talked about PJ. It uses the same 120Hz Cine2fine panels as the Epson 6500/7500UB, and the Panasonic AE3000U. The Panasonic's are known for not being so great for gaming due to input lag (which is why they added a game mode to try to compete), and the new Epson is using a Silicon Optics HQV Reon VX, which is a darn nice processor, but also quite known for lag in the gaming world. The Sanyo PLV-Z3000 is sticking with the tried and true Pixelworks DNX processing. Pixelworks DNX is not the best processor for deinterlacing and upscaling, but it is lightning fast. If you're looking for a PJ with the great black levels, high contrast ratio and 120Hz panels, but gaming is a top priority... I wouldn't write this one off your list.

MSRP US$3295
Available 11/28/2008 in Japan, Early December US


In Gaming Nexus they tested the z2000 and they said its a great projector for gaming. I personaly emailed the author and he told me that he did not have any problems with lag or anything connecting his PS3 with the PJ.

So, like you said, the z3000 might be very good for gaming indeed. I'm saving for a pj and gaming with my PS3 and PC is at the top of my list along with watching lots of blu-ray movies. I would not worry about PQ from the PJ as that would come into play with SD-DVDs which will be upscaled from the PS3 anyway (which is a very good DVD upscaler).

Sanyos are know for being very sharp, have a system for removing dust blobs and are very quiet. They also usually come with a 3 year warranty and all of this is very good. Still, at $3295 vs $2499 for the AE-3000 and a second year warranty coupon, would be very difficult for me to justify the difference, especially with the panny having a "gaming mode".

I'm hoping for Sanyo to get competitive and compete pricewise against Panny. If the Z-2000 is any indication of that, I should still hold my money for a little longer!!!

RDaneel 10-21-2008 12:03 PM

I'm totally open to the Sanyo, if it competes well with the AE3000. Unfortunately for Sanyo, Panasonic built in my key requirements - good contrast, long zoom, decent brightness, and even a lower-lag "game mode." Sanyo can now only compete on contrast/IQ (certainly possible) and price (which will be tough if they stick to $3295 MSRP). I'd like to see more about this PJ before deciding... same for the Epson 6500...

ResOGlas 10-21-2008 10:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post

Still, at $3295 vs $2499 for the AE-3000 and a second year warranty coupon, would be very difficult for me to justify the difference, especially with the panny having a "gaming mode".

Well, Panasonic originally priced the AE3000 at $3499. I would like to assume that both Sanyo and Epson will have to change their pricing strategies for the US as well.


As for the AE3000 using gaming mode (selective frame response), consider this. I quite enjoy using 120Hz frame interpolation on some games. The second you enable 120Hz frame interpolation on the Panasonic, it automatically turns off the Game mode. Since using frame interpolation adds lag to games, and the Panasonic already has too much lag in non-game mode to begin with, you pretty much can never play games with frame interpolation on the Panasonic at all without having an insane amount of lag.

At least with the Sanyo, you have a minimal amount of lag without needing a game mode, so you can surely enable 120Hz frame interpolation and only get the additional lag that the frame doubling process adds.


With that said, here's the breakdown:
Pretty much never an ideal gaming experience with the Epson due to the slow but powerful Reon VX. Sadly, Epson did not include a Game mode at all.

Gaming on Panny in Game mode only.

Gaming on Sanyo without need for game mode, possibility of gaming with 120Hz motion processing if you choose.



I also like that when you don't need a game mode, you can game using your calibrated D65 settings. Game modes *usually* offer less calibration options.

ResOGlas 10-21-2008 11:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post

I'm saving for a pj and gaming with my PS3 and PC is at the top of my list along with watching lots of blu-ray movies.

Are you sure that Text on your PC won't be too soft for you with Panasonic's smoothscreen?

Here's a quote from someone about smoothscreen:
Quote:


With DVD video and TV, smoothscreen is the bomb. However, PC text and websurfing suffer greatly.


ResOGlas 10-22-2008 05:54 AM

Just read the German hands on impression and was happy to see that the Sanyo Smooth-Motion frame interpolation has 3 settings. (low, Medium, and High) respectively.

This is nice, because if I ever use frame interpolation on film-based content, I prefer it to be low. However, I like higher settings for animation and 60fps content.


As of now we know the Panasonic only has 2 settings, does anyone know how many the Epson has?

eliwankenobi 10-22-2008 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Are you sure that Text on your PC won't be too soft for you with Panasonic's smoothscreen?

Here's a quote from someone about smoothscreen:

I want to use the PC for games as well. Primarily for Half-Life and Team Fortress 2 and a bunch more.

eliwankenobi 10-22-2008 05:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Well, Panasonic originally priced the AE3000 at $3499. I would like to assume that both Sanyo and Epson will have to change their pricing strategies for the US as well.


As for the AE3000 using gaming mode (selective frame response), consider this. I quite enjoy using 120Hz frame interpolation on some games. The second you enable 120Hz frame interpolation on the Panasonic, it automatically turns off the Game mode. Since using frame interpolation adds lag to games, and the Panasonic already has too much lag in non-game mode to begin with, you pretty much can never play games with frame interpolation on the Panasonic at all without having an insane amount of lag.

At least with the Sanyo, you have a minimal amount of lag without needing a game mode, so you can surely enable 120Hz frame interpolation and only get the additional lag that the frame doubling process adds.


With that said, here's the breakdown:
Pretty much never an ideal gaming experience with the Epson due to the slow but powerful Reon VX. Sadly, Epson did not include a Game mode at all.

Gaming on Panny in Game mode only.

Gaming on Sanyo without need for game mode, possibility of gaming with 120Hz motion processing if you choose.



I also like that when you don't need a game mode, you can game using your calibrated D65 settings. Game modes *usually* offer less calibration options.

Im sure that with the panny you can select the Fast processing option (game mode) and still have it calibrated at D65 if you so have calibrated like that. What it will do is bypass or disable all the post processing on the image that is used to calculate how to operate the iris, etc.

I would not use the frame interpolation anyways on either projector, to me it makes the picture look artificial. If movies are recoded at 24 fps, then I want to watch them at 24fps or a multiple of it, cause that's what these projectors do anyways. Now video games, specially on PC are meant to be played at 30-60 frames per second. Higher than that and it really dosen't matter. That is why the game Unreal Tournament 3 on PC is locked to a frame rate of 60fps, no matter how super video card and cpu you have.

Also, lets not confuse frame interpolation with high refresh rates (120 hz in this case)

I really hope that Sanyo lowers the price of the Z3000 to compete with Panny. It looks to be a good pj.

Eskimo1 10-22-2008 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Are you sure that Text on your PC won't be too soft for you with Panasonic's smoothscreen?

Here's a quote from someone about smoothscreen:

That reads like an AE2000 review..

ResOGlas 10-23-2008 02:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo1 View Post

That reads like an AE2000 review..

It is, how many AE3000 reviews do you know of? My comment was directly related to Smoothscreen Technology and PC use. I understand that the AE3000 is supposed to be a little sharper, but it still is using smoothscreen. Someone already reported that their older Sanyo Z2000 was Sharper than the AE3000 Test unit that they received from Panasonic.

I do not wish to derail this thread. Smoothscreen = Softer image than having NO Smoothscreen...even if the PJ is the almighty new AE3000U.

buddahead 10-23-2008 04:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

It is, how many AE3000 reviews do you know of? My comment was directly related to Smoothscreen Technology and PC use. I understand that the AE3000 is supposed to be a little sharper, but it still is using smoothscreen. Someone already reported that their older Sanyo Z2000 was Sharper than the AE3000 Test unit that they received from Panasonic.

I do not wish to derail this thread. Smoothscreen = Softer image than having NO Smoothscreen...even if the PJ is the almighty new AE3000U.

A sharper image does not mean crap.For movies' too sharp can make the pic look bad'not film like.I take smoothscreen over super sharp any day.Amazing how many here can't understand smoothscreen.Must be to complicated for them.

ResOGlas 10-23-2008 04:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahead View Post

A sharper image does not mean crap.For movies' too sharp can make the pic look bad'not film like.I take smoothscreen over super sharp any day.Amazing how many here can't understand smoothscreen.Must be to complicated for them.

I said I didn't want the thread derailed, I AM TALKING ABOUT READING PC TEXT. I understand smoothscreen, and petty insults won't score you any brownie points here on AVS.

SmoothScreen & PC TEXT
SmoothScreen & PC TEXT
SmoothScreen & PC TEXT

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Are you sure that Text on your PC won't be too soft for you with Panasonic's smoothscreen?


William Mapstone 10-23-2008 05:37 AM

Quote:


Originally posted by bubbahead
Amazing how many here can't understand smoothscreen.Must be to complicated for them.

I understood why panasonic put smoothscreen into a 720p projector, but when panasonic put smoothscreen into a 1080p projector my brain started to hurt...

Eskimo1 10-23-2008 06:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

It is, how many AE3000 reviews do you know of? My comment was directly related to Smoothscreen Technology and PC use.

I've read 2 so far. Both state that the effect of smoothscreen has been drastically reduced - it would appear Panny listened to its user base. Neither review speaks of any softness around the edges like the 2000's reviews did - so to say "a little sharper" might be misleading.

Granted, I would agree that the less they put in the way between the source and what I see the better (at least make the damn thing able to be disabled), but let's not jump to conclusions until someone's done a side-by-side?

Before someone (not saying you were going to, ResOGlas) calls me a Panny 'fanboy', I am shopping for my first PJ and was set to get a 1080UB, but at the price point the 3000 came out at and the reviews it got, I couldn't say no. I'm not willing to wait a month or more for something similarly priced with similar performance. (Life's too short to wait)

Zip3kx07 10-23-2008 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo1 View Post

I've read 2 so far. Both state that the effect of smoothscreen has been drastically reduced - it would appear Panny listened to its user base. Neither review speaks of any softness around the edges like the 2000's reviews did - so to say "a little sharper" might be misleading.


"The image of AE3000 looks soft if you have another sharper projector to compare. Smooth Screen is not a good feature to implement on a 1080p projector, because you do not need."



https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1061041&page=9

Larry LLL 10-26-2008 12:04 PM

This ? is for Z3000 only.
I have a Z2000 pj great pj w/Sony 350 blu ray.
I see the Z3000 is going to be 120hz 5.5 pull down.
Would this be a big jump for 1080p Movies only?
Not only but would the Blu ray player have to be 120hz 5.5 also?
Thank you
Larry

kriktsemaj99 10-26-2008 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

"The image of AE3000 looks soft if you have another sharper projector to compare. Smooth Screen is not a good feature to implement on a 1080p projector, because you do not need."

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1061041&page=9

That was a pre-production model, and the Projector Central review had a totally different opinion.

I must say I would much rather not have smoothscreen either, but if the Z3000 doesn't stack up to the Panny in other ways I would be willing to give the AE3000 a look based on the Projector Central description.

ResOGlas 10-26-2008 03:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry LLL View Post

I see the Z3000 is going to be 120hz 5.5 pull down.
Would this be a big jump for 1080p Movies only?

The 5:5 pulldown would be for movies only, but 120Hz frame interpolation looks great for game content too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry LLL View Post

but would the Blu ray player have to be 120hz 5.5 also?

Nope.

sethk 10-26-2008 04:20 PM

120hz with frame interpolation, at least on the Samsung and Sony LCD TVs has caused too much input lag to play with many game types including music games, action games, fighting games and shooters. Generally there is a need to buffer the frames to analyze the frame ahead as well as the frames behind that leads to this delay.

Game modes on these TVs generally disable the interpolation.

eliwankenobi 10-27-2008 10:59 AM

I second,

Frame interpolation might be good for movies (though from what I have seen....not really), you have a film that was recorded at 24 fps, and for that kind of situation, it will make things a little or a lot smoother on screen (depending on your perception).

But it won't do any good for any kind of game. It would add lag and it will not make games look any better or smoother.

ResOGlas 10-27-2008 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post

it will not make games look any better or smoother.

My apologies, but that is 100% untrue.

I do not disagree that it adds some lag to gameplay, but it is false to claim that it doesn't make games more fluid and smooth. There is quite a visible difference.


Also, don't forget that there are many games like RPGs that don't rely on super quick response time. For those types of games, you can greatly benefit from frame interpolation.

bordin 10-27-2008 10:23 PM

Sanyo Z3000's 5:5 pull-down seems to be beneficial for TV broadcast programs ?



"Compatible with various television digital broadcasting, allowing the feeling and enjoyment of the movie theater for everyday broadcast programming"

http://www.homecinemacentral.com.au/..._Z7_review.htm

So does 4:4 pull-down of the Epson TW5000 (7500).





http://www.cine4home.de/news/TW5000/TW5000Preview.htm

Zip3kx07 10-28-2008 02:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

That was a pre-production model, and the Projector Central review had a totally different opinion.

That Projector central review was so sugar coated my teeth were hurting just reading it. No projector is perfect, you can always find something to fault.

I especially like the email reply someone got back from a rep at Projector People when asked about the sharpness on the AE3000 the rep said it looked "Sharp enough". I take the words "sharp enough" as the average consumer will be fine with it and a Videophile will find it soft.

dogone 10-28-2008 03:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

"The image of AE3000 looks soft if you have another sharper projector to compare. Smooth Screen is not a good feature to implement on a 1080p projector, because you do not need."



https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1061041&page=9

Yes you "do" need! I just took back a Sanyo 1080P projector because I could see pixels (screendoor) from as far as 8 feet away!...With the Panny you don't see any pixels and it appeared just as sharp. I like to sit fairly close to a 120" screen and Panasonic has me spoiled. THANK YOU PANASONIC!...

kriktsemaj99 10-28-2008 05:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

Yes you "do" need! I just took back a Sanyo 1080P projector because I could see pixels (screendoor) from as far as 8 feet away!...With the Panny you don't see any pixels and it appeared just as sharp. I like to sit fairly close to a 120" screen and Panasonic has me spoiled. THANK YOU PANASONIC!...

We should do a poll to see how close people sit (maybe there already is one). 8 feet from a 120" screen is less than 1 screen width away, so I'm not surprised you can see pixels on the Sanyo. But how many sit that close?

ResOGlas 10-28-2008 07:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

That Projector central review was so sugar coated my teeth were hurting just reading it. No projector is perfect, you can always find something to fault.

I especially like the email reply someone got back from a rep at Projector People when asked about the sharpness on the AE3000 the rep said it looked "Sharp enough". I take the words "sharp enough" as the average consumer will be fine with it and a Videophile will find it soft.

Here's a quote from somebody that already picked up the AE3000:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldine View Post

i picked up th projector from a local dealer.I have upgrades from a PT-AE2000 and the 3000 has more punch. I am sure it is the higher contrast ratio. It also seems sharper. There is not a night and day difference from the 2000. Still i am very pleased.

The 2000 was quite soft compared to non-smoothscreen PJs. It sounds to me like the 3000 isn't that much sharper.

Zip3kx07 10-28-2008 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

Yes you "do" need! I just took back a Sanyo 1080P projector because I could see pixels (screendoor) from as far as 8 feet away!...With the Panny you don't see any pixels and it appeared just as sharp. I like to sit fairly close to a 120" screen and Panasonic has me spoiled. THANK YOU PANASONIC!...

It all depends on how sensitive you are to SDE. some people it's like seeing rainbows on DLPs and they have to sit way back, Others are like me and are not sensitive to SDE. I have a 720P LCD I can sit 8 feet from and not be bothered by SDE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Here's a quote from somebody that already picked up the AE3000:


The 2000 was quite soft compared to non-smoothscreen PJs. It sounds to me like the 3000 isn't that much sharper.

I saw that post last night, but as far as sharpness on the AE3000 it means nothing. He's comparing the AE2000 to the AE3000, the 2000 was very soft because of the filter and Panasonic reduced the filter (not eliminating it) so obviously the AE3000 will be sharper then it's predecessors. The question is how sharp will it be compared to other projectors without the filter? To me, to say it's "sharp enough" is just a cop-out.

Personally I wish the filter could be user defeat-able.

pottscb 10-28-2008 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

That Projector central review was so sugar coated my teeth were hurting just reading it. No projector is perfect, you can always find something to fault.

I especially like the email reply someone got back from a rep at Projector People when asked about the sharpness on the AE3000 the rep said it looked "Sharp enough". I take the words "sharp enough" as the average consumer will be fine with it and a Videophile will find it soft.


True enough, though "videophiles" (whether you fancy yourself one or not) also don't expect perfection for $2400 nor would they usually be caught dead in the under $3K forum.

Here's where you need to be:
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86

eliwankenobi 10-28-2008 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

My apologies, but that is 100% untrue.

I do not disagree that it adds some lag to gameplay, but it is false to claim that it doesn't make games more fluid and smooth. There is quite a visible difference.


Also, don't forget that there are many games like RPGs that don't rely on super quick response time. For those types of games, you can greatly benefit from frame interpolation.

You might be right on the rpg part. But it all comes down to this: If you like it, use it, if you don't like it, turn it off. that's it.

Does anybody know of any testing being done on any pre-production model or something? I know Art from projectorreviews.com said he will receive his in two weeks or so.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.