Official epson 6500ub owners thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 4399 Old 12-23-2008, 05:34 PM
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Good news/bad news... Good news is mine arrived here yesterday. Bad news is when I took it out of the box and hooked it up, it was broken. Out of the box yesterday, back in the box today. being shipped back tomorrow. PP and Epson so far are showing their great customer support and proving I didn't make a mistake by choosing either. We'll see how it goes.

Nick
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post #32 of 4399 Old 12-23-2008, 06:17 PM
 
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Here's what Art said regarding Frame Interpolation on this unit:

Greetings Bart,

Excellent, you raise a good point. Here's my take so far:

First, the Epson (and I can't get any answers from them - they shut down for two weeks about 2 hours after I picked up the UB, last friday) - seems to only do creative frame interpolation, with 30/60 sources, not 24. The Epson normally uses 4:4 pull-down for 24fps source material. You can run it that way, or turn 4:4 off. If you turn 4:4 off, you can turn on frame interpolation (creative). There are three speeds to creative frame interpolation, but all of them seem to make a mess of smooth motion, lots of hiccups, and noticeable. Not a workable option.

I have tried watching in all three creative frame interpolation modes - the jerkiness appears often enough to be visible, and annoying. 4:4, on the other hand, works fine - no jerkiness that I have noticed relative to creative on.

I have watched 4:4 extensively, and even watched with that turned off, for several hours. The creative frame interpolation definitely tends to make the image more live digital video looking than with frame interpolation off, (frame interpolation off being whether 4:4 is turned on, or off).

I still need to do more watching to get a complete handle on 4:4 on, vs. off, but, the depth seems to be excellent in either, and there is still that live digital video impression, although less in either of those modes, than the generally unworkable creative frame interpolation for 24fps sources.

So, the creative definitely enhances that impression, but even without it, it has that feel. My daughter and I watched a bunch of the last Harry Potter movie last night, and her comment was immediately - that looks strange. She made a good point, that it looked like some of the cuts you see in special features sections of DVD's where they show you deleted footage that was never fully finished. The problem is, I'm not sure if 4:4 was on at the time, or off, but creative frame was definitely not engaged, so we had a good image, either way.

I may well blog on this again in the next 48, before the review, as nailing down what's happening in what modes is driving me crazy.

Bottom line: Creative definitely has that effect, but it's still there, at least with 4:4, and maybe with both turned off.

Stay tuned! BTW, I had someone from SIM2 by this morning. He got a look at the Epson and was most impressed with the depth, etc.

Gotta run! -art
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post #33 of 4399 Old 12-23-2008, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

1) Man, the iris is loud and annoying. It makes a sound like a PC's hard disc constantly seeking, that soft rattling sound. And it won't stay still either; I was browsing the pj's menu tree with PS3's XMB (black) in the background and the iris was rattling on all the time like a machine gun. I could hear it from 6 feet away, while standing next to a first-revision PS3.

That's interesting. In peteer01's TW4000 thread, he says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by peteer01 View Post

No, I'm not using the iris, actually. By default, the "Auto Iris" is turned off. I sit right next to the projector, and it is very quiet. I tried turning the iris on while gaming (not because I thought it would help, but I wanted to hear the noise level). It's not super noisy, but it is audible. (I set it straight to the "fast" setting, which might be louder than the "normal". While I don't really have any interest in using the iris for gaming, I may give it a try the next time that I watch a movie, but part of me wonders if it was set to off by default for a reason.

The bold is mine ... I know I'm personally very sensitive to hard drive noise (like in crappy TW cable co DVR's) so this will bug the crap out of me if true. And now davedelite in post #32 says he couldn't even hear it. Art on projectorcentral said the noise in high power mode might bother the "noise adverse" and that has me a little worried, but I'm trying to not worry too much

My 6500UB is on order from AVS, so I won't get to hear it until next week (hopefully). I think it would be nice if someone posted audio recordings of the projector's fan noise and iris similar to the way they do on Silent PC Review, especially because you can compare the noise level and quality of different components to other "reference" components. I'd love to "hear" the difference between the 6500UB and PT-AE3000U, for instance, but really any comparison would be cool IMHO.

I'll try to post some audio clips of my 6500UB when it comes, though I don't have the set up like SPCR. And I have a 2 year old, too, so, all bets are off
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post #34 of 4399 Old 12-23-2008, 08:54 PM
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I received my 6500 UB yesterday (12/22 about 4:45 pm) and all I can say is "WOW!"
Now keep in mind this is my 1st projector ever, but I am truly blown away. Ok, so I'd probably be blown away no matter which one I bought, 120 inches is 120 inches. Beat that 50" DLP TV! Anyway, I have only watched one full movie, and several clips of others, but the picture looks great. I did a quick calibration (not much time to put into it yet), and it looks wonderful.
A few notes:
1) The convergence of the LCD panels is definitely off. I shot a test image onto the screen and I am off 2 pixels, as I can see a magenta line on one side and a green line on the other. This seems to be STANDARD with Epson, so I'm not even gonna bother exchanging, as I would probably end up with one with dead pixels and even worse convergence. Please note that I see the convergence problem only when I stand at the screen and analyze it, not from seating distance.
2) Frame interpolation: cool in a 60's dropping acid kinda way... but to me it's really kinda unwatchable. I had a few friends over to watch a movie, and we played around with the frame interpolation feature. Very weird! Very smooth motion (no judder, blurring), but very unnatural. I can't see myself using it. My friends agreed it looks strange, but they thought it was really cool and wanted to leave it on... My house, my projector = no thanks on the frame interpolation feature.
3) Black levels: I am not a good reference for a comparison, because I've never had another projector. I would have to say the black levels are excellent. They look great to me... however, I can tell you the black velvet frame is ABSOLUTELY blacker than the horizontal bars on 2.35 movies. But unless you are trying to be critical, you won't even notice them.
4) Mounting: easy to mount, but I bought a Sanus Universal mount, and I had to use some extra pieces because the mounting holes on the projector are so far apart. Make sure your mount has long arms to reach each mounting hole.
5) Colors - Again, I barely calibrated it. I used the THX calibrator from the Monsters, Inc setup menu. I am not a calibration expert, but I would have to say the skin tones, and colors all look natural, yet rich. I love saturated images... not overly saturated to the point of everyone looking sunburned, but enough so that the image looks full, not pale/dim/washed out. This projector doesn't disappoint.
6) Noise: If you are really listening for it, you will hear the fan blowing quietly. During the movie (and even during quiet scenes), you will not hear it. I am sitting only about 2-3 feet behind and about 4-5 feet below it, and I never hear it. Some very picky people might say they can, but again, that's only for those extremely critical people.

I have read dozens of projector reviews from projector.com, projectorcentral.com, projectorreviews.com, bigpicturebigsound.com, and the list goes on... that being said; I am no expert, but consider myself someone who at least knows what to look for in a projector. I still say "this thing is awesome!" I am a very critical person, and I always look for the smallest details on everything I buy (and the women I date, hence me still being single). Only the most critical person will find any problems with the 6500UB.

Well, that's about it for my quick review. If you have any questions about the projector, please feel free to ask. I don't have to work 12/24 so I'll be watching a few movies, hopefully... I should be available to answer questions if you got 'em!
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post #35 of 4399 Old 12-23-2008, 09:01 PM
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FYI
I'll dig out my 4 year old, 5 megapixel digital camera and see if I can get some images uploaded on here for you guys! (Probably 12/24)
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post #36 of 4399 Old 12-23-2008, 10:40 PM
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In your opinion any must haves that the 6100 doesnt have? cant wait for some pix!
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post #37 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 12:10 AM
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Other than the 2 dead pixels, and convergence issue that I need to look at harder the next couple of days, color me impressed. This really does have the pop and wow that Art discussed. I was also very impressed how good the greyscale was out of the box. I just calibrated it (greyscale only) tonight via the Greyscale and Colour Calibration for Dummies guide and while I easily got dE's less than 3 with my effort, it was less than 7 to begin with so I almost put zero time into it. This was for Theater Black 1 on low or high power lamp (yes, I figured out where that adjustment is). Also, Natural had good out of box grey balance. Now, Living Room did not as the greens where heavy and red was very week....but after a calibration on that I now have 4 modes all calibrated for greyscale...theater black 1 on low and high power, Natural on its default of High Power, and Living Room on its default of high power...

If anyone has anything to report on colour calibration of their new unit and how well it matched to 709 please report. the greyscales were so close to what one would want that I may not even spend time looking at Color on this unit since I might be sending it back for convergence checking...
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post #38 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edan View Post

That's interesting. In peteer01's TW4000 thread, he says:

Whoo, I'm being quoted!

I'm a very big fan of the auto iris in this projector after having used this for a while. (FYI, I've been in America for the holidays since the 18th, but logged roughly 85 hours before heading over here. Brought my Z3 to give to my parents and the whole family's been watching movies on that, so I'm definitely going to have a good appreciation of the TW4000 when I get back home)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingranch51 View Post

In your opinion any must haves that the 6100 doesnt have? cant wait for some pix!

The 6500 has inorganic panels with much better contrast and blacks. That alone makes it worth it in my books. I've seen the 6100 (TW3000) and the blacks and contrast were disappointing, I'd rather have the AE2000, Z2000 or TW2000 than either the 6100 (TW3000) or Z700.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #39 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 07:14 AM
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Has any new owner tested for lag?
ie. gaming
Should be getting 'THE CALL' from Jason monday, I feel like a kid at Christmas time.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all my AVSers'
Ben
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post #40 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 07:32 AM
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+1 for gaming opinions, i will also use the 7500UB for PS3 gaming.
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post #41 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 08:17 AM
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I would be very grateful if people would briefly describe the reflectivity of their viewing environment when giving subjective appraisals of the contrast of their projectors.

much thanks
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post #42 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 08:38 AM
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No Fair! So many are getting their 6500s already and mine won't ship till Monday at the earliest. Since my old projector didn't survive the trip back from Italy, I will have to watch my Christmas movies on a 32" Vizio LCD

Oh well, at least we who are still waiting for ours can hope that you guys get all the calibration stuff figured out for us by next week
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post #43 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I know it is no fun to wait but your patience will be rewarded. I am sure that if you ordered from Jason on the power buy you will get a good unit and you will be supporting the people who run this forum. I also feel you will have more information about the best settings and calibration.
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post #44 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiAlready View Post

FYI
I'll dig out my 4 year old, 5 megapixel digital camera and see if I can get some images uploaded on here for you guys! (Probably 12/24)

OK Here's a round of pics... boy is my camera poor. All graininess is from the camera, not the projector!

Attachment 127563

Attachment 127564

Attachment 127565

Attachment 127566

Attachment 127567
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #45 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 10:05 AM
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I'm gonna see if one of my friends can bring their newer digital camera over so I can get you guys some better screen shots, but it won't be until later tonight.
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post #46 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiAlready View Post

OK Here's a round of pics... boy is my camera poor. All graininess is from the camera, not the projector!

Are you running a scope screen?

I know its hard to judge from screen caps but it looks like it has plenty of punch with very good black level. Looks darn good
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post #47 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 10:21 AM
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Thanks for the pics. How bright are your walls ceiling floor?
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post #48 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 11:01 AM
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To answer the previous 2 posts.
The screen is a 120" 16x9 screen (104"x59"). It is matte white Elite Screens EZ-Frame 1.1 gain. Very nice lower price screen.
The ceiling is white, which may slightly affect black levels, but they look really good, regardless. I doubt I would see much difference if the ceiling was black, but the ceilings are only a little over 7 feet, so I don't want them any darker (might make the room seem too cramped). The wall the screen is mounted on is a dark chocolate brown, and the side walls are slightly lighter (a medium brown, but with a slightly military green tint).
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post #49 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedelite View Post

Other than the 2 dead pixels, and convergence issue that I need to look at harder the next couple of days, color me impressed. This really does have the pop and wow that Art discussed. I was also very impressed how good the greyscale was out of the box. I just calibrated it (greyscale only) tonight via the Greyscale and Colour Calibration for Dummies guide and while I easily got dE's less than 3 with my effort, it was less than 7 to begin with so I almost put zero time into it. This was for Theater Black 1 on low or high power lamp (yes, I figured out where that adjustment is). Also, Natural had good out of box grey balance. Now, Living Room did not as the greens where heavy and red was very week....but after a calibration on that I now have 4 modes all calibrated for greyscale...theater black 1 on low and high power, Natural on its default of High Power, and Living Room on its default of high power...

If anyone has anything to report on colour calibration of their new unit and how well it matched to 709 please report. the greyscales were so close to what one would want that I may not even spend time looking at Color on this unit since I might be sending it back for convergence checking...

Where can the calibration for dummies guide be found? I was going to buy the HD DVD DVE calibration disk to set up the pj when I get it, but is there some other calibration stuff out there that will help. I've never done one, so I need all the help I can get.
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post #50 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d james View Post

Where can the calibration for dummies guide be found? I was going to buy the HD DVD DVE calibration disk to set up the pj when I get it, but is there some other calibration stuff out there that will help. I've never done one, so I need all the help I can get.

One of the best links I have ever come across from being an AVS forum member.... This is a great how to and made me make the leap to buy a Display-One LT and it has worked terrifically so far...

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...asc&highlight=
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post #51 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

So, the creative definitely enhances that impression, but even without it, it has that feel. My daughter and I watched a bunch of the last Harry Potter movie last night, and her comment was immediately - that looks strange. She made a good point, that it looked like some of the cuts you see in special features sections of DVD's where they show you deleted footage that was never fully finished. The problem is, I'm not sure if 4:4 was on at the time, or off, but creative frame was definitely not engaged, so we had a good image, either way.

Bottom line: Creative definitely has that effect, but it's still there, at least with 4:4, and maybe with both turned off.

Gotta run! -art

Im confused by this.. can anyone explain further?
It sounds like the epson always has that "live digital look" to it. I cant stand any sort of frame interpolation that ive seen in stores. I think it ruins the look of movies (24p content). Will the Epson always have that artificial look to it when watching movies, no matter what setting?
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post #52 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 01:34 PM
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my projector is waiting for me at the UPS facility. I am out of town and will be going to get it Monday when i get back. Very excited. This is my first front projector. I am hoping that i will be pleasantly surprised.
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post #53 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedelite View Post

One of the best links I have ever come across from being an AVS forum member.... This is a great how to and made me make the leap to buy a Display-One LT and it has worked terrifically so far...

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...asc&highlight=

Wow that looks excellent, thanks so much. Like I say, I don't have alot of knowledge with calibration and that looks like its got a wealth of information.
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post #54 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I'm not convinced that the 4000 hr. rated lamp life applies to the high lamp mode because on page 36 of the owner's manual under the setting for the "Brightness" mode setting it says: "Decrease the brightness for dark rooms or small screens; this also reduces power consumption and fan noise, and helps to prolong the life of the lamp."

Greetings,

The stuff in the manual, notwithstanding, I had previously queried Epson right after I received my 6500 UB for the review. One of their product managers responded yesterday, that it is 4000 hours, either mode.

As to manuals, they are often have errors on first release. For example, the same 6500 UB manual says that brightness is 474 lumens in low power mode. I pointed that out to them, suggesting that might be the brightness in Theater Black1 mode. They confirmed back that it was a typo, that it is 474 lumens in Theater Black1 mode, not "full power", and that the manual would be corrected on the fly, so later units will have that, and other errors fixed.

I've posted two blogs on my site, regarding my "first, and second look" impressions of the HC6500 UB. Looks great overall, but there are definitely some frame interpolation issues with 24fps source material, for those interested. -art

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post #55 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 04:03 PM
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What is the ANSI contrast of the 6500ub?
SkiAlready, the first shot is amazing apart from blur
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post #56 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiAlready View Post

OK Here's a round of pics... boy is my camera poor. All graininess is from the camera, not the projector!

Attachment 127563

Attachment 127564

Attachment 127565

Attachment 127566

Attachment 127567

Best way to take pictures is Tripod, Using the NIGHT MODE of you're P&S, and using the countdown...

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #57 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 08:33 PM
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I would like to know as well. I've tried calling a few places and no one seems to be able to get them in till the new year...

East Hamilton Radio....I'm picking mine up on Friday or Saturday.
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post #58 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 08:50 PM
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Its interesting that neither Projectorreviews or Projectorcentral made any comment whatsoever concerning image depth when discussing frame interpolation in their respective reviews of the Sanyo or Panasonic projectors, which is somewhat surprising, considering the number of AVS members' comments concerning this. Art's comments about image depth and frame interpolation vis a vis the Epson 6500 UB are the first I've read from a professional reviewer. The "depth" effect the Epson can garner must be pretty much "in your face" for it to generate this much attention, especially considering neither the Sanyo or Panasonic inspired any discussion related to this particular effect (in the reviews). I'm considering purchasing either the Panasonic or Epson primarily for frame interpolation, so I am particularly interested in how each projector handles this. Apparently Art is going to compare how frame interpolation is handled among the "big three" LCD projectors, which will be a must read!
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post #59 of 4399 Old 12-24-2008, 08:58 PM
 
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yeah, I was very surprised that neither the Sanyo or Panasonic made much of an impact with their frame interpolation in any of the reviews, while the Epson seems to be at the forefront with their interpolation. I've seen frame interpolation on flat panel LCDs and they ALL had a similar effect with making movies look like video. Maybe the Panny and Sanyo projectors have toned down this effect to make it look less like video and Epson has gone to the opposite extreme and really push that "video" look.

Im still looking forward to hear more on the Epson, but Im glad I didn't jump right into it. Im still leaning toward the VPL-VW80, but it suck that you have to get it from Australia and no warranty.
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post #60 of 4399 Old 12-25-2008, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Art at Projector Reviews has just added more information about his testing of frame interpolation on the Epson. It is an interesting read and there is more to come.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog/
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