Epson Calibration Guide! (1080, 1080UB, 6100, 6500UB, 7500UB) - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 748 Old 03-11-2012, 07:16 AM
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THanks. You mean pull the sliders down? I want to lower it right? Also, is there a quicker way to measure gamma without running the gray scale measurement?
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post #662 of 748 Old 03-12-2012, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

THanks. You mean pull the sliders down? I want to lower it right? Also, is there a quicker way to measure gamma without running the gray scale measurement?

Pulling the slider down raises the gamma number. Since 20 and 90 are above the target, you need to pull them up.

I think it should be the 3 from the left, not the 2nd (which will effect 10 IRE, but you want to lower the gamma for 20 IRE).

I don't think it is possible to do a quick gamma, as gamma is calculated from 100 IRE.
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post #663 of 748 Old 03-19-2012, 09:00 PM
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calibrating my primary and secondary colors and i started with RED, and i can't seem to get the red bar to 378. it keeps hovering around 480-490. no matter which direction i move the saturation, the RED bar doesn't move. this is while displaying a 75% RED window.

am i doing something wrong?
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post #664 of 748 Old 03-20-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

calibrating my primary and secondary colors and i started with RED, and i can't seem to get the red bar to 378. it keeps hovering around 480-490. no matter which direction i move the saturation, the RED bar doesn't move. this is while displaying a 75% RED window.

am i doing something wrong?

Seems like you're using the wrong test pattern for this 75% saturation method. It should be 75% saturation pattern (which is at 100% stimulus level) - not the one found in the 75% Color patterns (which is 100% saturation pattern at 75% stimulus level).
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post #665 of 748 Old 03-20-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominickwok View Post

Seems like you're using the wrong test pattern for this 75% saturation method. It should be 75% saturation pattern (which is at 100% stimulus level) - not the one found in the 75% Color patterns (which is 100% saturation pattern at 75% stimulus level).


ah....there's my problem. it was midnight, i am was probably half asleep.

btw, when i was doing grayscale i had to move the offset on RED all the way to the right (max value). should i be concern with this?
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post #666 of 748 Old 03-20-2012, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

ah....there's my problem. it was midnight, i am was probably half asleep.

btw, when i was doing grayscale i had to move the offset on RED all the way to the right (max value). should i be concern with this?

That's should be ok, provided that you have already chosen a color temp preset that is closest to D65 to start with, and you're sure your meter has reasonable accuracy (e.g. using a colorimeter profiled with a reasonably accurate spectro).
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post #667 of 748 Old 03-21-2012, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominickwok View Post

That's should be ok, provided that you have already chosen a color temp preset that is closest to D65 to start with, and you're sure your meter has reasonable accuracy (e.g. using a colorimeter profiled with a reasonably accurate spectro).

my meter is an I1D3. i don't have a spetro to profile against, unfortunately.

however, i believe the I1D3 is pretty accurate. and i was able to calibrate my primary/secondary colors a few weeks ago.
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post #668 of 748 Old 03-22-2012, 08:03 PM
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i calibrated my color gamut, but my measurements are not coming out good.

only red and yellow has a deltaE of under 6.

any suggestions?

edit: right now, i have my Brightness set at -27 and Contrast at +17. does this even sound right? something wrong with my source?
LL
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post #669 of 748 Old 03-23-2012, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

i calibrated my color gamut, but my measurements are not coming out good.

only red and yellow has a deltaE of under 6.

any suggestions?

edit: right now, i have my Brightness set at -27 and Contrast at +17. does this even sound right? something wrong with my source?

Those dE's are only for the 100% saturation levels. They are not valid for the 75% saturations. You need to take all 30 readings (0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% for all 6 colors). You then need to copy your results from HCFR and paste them into Dan's spreadsheet (2nd tab "Input Data"). His spreadsheet will calculate the true dE's for all the saturations.

I think your brightness and contrast sound way out of wack.

You need to go back into this thread and look at some of the attached files to see the difference. I would attach some of my earlier calibrations, but when I looked I had deleted them.
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post #670 of 748 Old 03-23-2012, 06:08 AM
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Thanks. This is driving me nuts.

I have an HTPC as a source and still messing around with the settings on the video card driver. My bulb look pretty dim, i can not get more than 9ftL of brightness out of it.

This is harder than rocket science.
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post #671 of 748 Old 03-23-2012, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Thanks. This is driving me nuts.

I have an HTPC as a source and still messing around with the settings on the video card driver. My bulb look pretty dim, i can not get more than 9ftL of brightness out of it.

This is harder than rocket science.

But once you get it, it will make perfect sense.
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post #672 of 748 Old 03-23-2012, 09:51 AM
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I hope so. I need to post my numbers when I have a chance.

I got Hue/Saturation pushing into the -50 territory, which is HUGE.
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post #673 of 748 Old 03-24-2012, 07:14 AM
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reading back the last 10 pages or so, it seems most of these projectors after being calibrated in Natural mode would yield somewhere around 7-10ftL.

that's just too dim isn't it? isn't 12-16ftL recommended for movies viewing? some even like it up to 22ftL?
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post #674 of 748 Old 03-25-2012, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

reading back the last 10 pages or so, it seems most of these projectors after being calibrated in Natural mode would yield somewhere around 7-10ftL.

that's just too dim isn't it? isn't 12-16ftL recommended for movies viewing? some even like it up to 22ftL?

It's really personal preference. I found that I like it brighter and use dynamic mode, even though green doesn't calibrate as well as Natural, the extra brightness was worth it to me.
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post #675 of 748 Old 03-25-2012, 07:11 AM
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Right now, I am measuring about 7.8ftL after I lowered contrast and set my HTPC to output limited 16-235. Picture is a little dimmer than my first go around. It is a little dim for my taste, but I had an Optoma HD65 previously and that was a light cannon (uncalibrated).
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post #676 of 748 Old 03-25-2012, 12:01 PM
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should i be too concern with 10IRE reading?

0 IRE - dE (73.6)
10 IRE dE (15.8)

20 IRE through 100 IRE have delta Es 3, so i think i am good for that spectrum.

thanks
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post #677 of 748 Old 03-26-2012, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

should i be too concern with 10IRE reading?

0 IRE - dE (73.6)
10 IRE dE (15.8)

20 IRE through 100 IRE have delta Es 3, so i think i am good for that spectrum.

thanks

I wouldn't be concerned with the dE at 10 IRE. Your Y at this level is quite low and your meter may not be that accurate at that level.

20 through 100 sound good.
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post #678 of 748 Old 04-24-2012, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

I think these below will still have a better picture than default settings. Hope this helps.

Brightness -7
Contrast -6
Color Sat 21
Tint 0
Temp 6500
Skin 0
Gamma Custom 0 -8 -17 -13 -23 -14 -15 -29 0
RGB
Offset
R -17
G 2
B 3
Gain
R 1
G 5
B -23
HUE SAT BR
R 1 -38 14
G 64 36 -22
B 27 -30 -27
C 3 6 -17
M 23 -25 -34
Y 17 -50 59


FYI, I used these settings and they worked almost perfectly! Great looking, balanced image. I ultimately used slightly different values in the brightness, contrast, color saturation and tint, but the RGB and RGBCMY settings stayed the same. It's a good place to start from for those without a colorimeter. I am using a 1.0 gain matte white screen.
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post #679 of 748 Old 05-01-2012, 01:13 PM
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I have a Mitsubishi WD-73c11 (same as wd-73640) but really like this good and the merits of calibration at 75% saturation. The TV has an RGB based CMS so I can adjust the levels RGB for all primaries and secondaries but I can't directly change hue, saturation, or lightness (obviously adjusting RGB levels for each color does affect hue, saturation, and lightness). It also has RGB high and low adjsutments all accessible from the advanced user menu. I think there is also RGB gains available in the service menu but I haven't played with these yet.

So basically what I'm seeing is that with dead on xy calibrations I can't hit the targeted Y values. So I don't know where to strike the compromise and what the human eye is more sensitive to. Should I be biased towards xy accuracy or Y% accuracy. I can get the Y% lower but this involves lowering the contrast drastically and I'd probably only be getting 20ftL of light output and I think that would hurt more than help. Per some other threads I'm calibrating at 75% saturation, not 100%.

My grey scale and gamma and luminance are all pretty much dead on. Its the primaries and secondaries I'm concerned with.

If you look at the attached the Run 2 I was going after more accurate xy coordinates and on Run3 was going after more accurate Y% values. these graphs are from HCFR. I know I really should plug the numbers into the spreadsheet to get more accurate graphs. I can do this and repost later.

In the service menu there are RBG controls. I'm not sure if these affect grey scale the like the ones in the user menu for high and low or if maybe I can use these to get my Y% closer. See: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1162319
LL
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LL
LL
LL
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post #680 of 748 Old 05-04-2012, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Glad you were able to make use of this guide with your Mitsubishi. After doing a number of calibrations, and never being able to perfectly line up hue saturation and brightness of each color, I can tell you this:

I'm extremely sensitive to hue. So my first choice is to get color hue correct. Then comes saturation, then brightness (but they are very much related when it comes to perceived error). If I percieve a color to still be too strong after calibration, I tend to reduce saturation first before I reduce brightness.

Hope this helps.

Dan
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post #681 of 748 Old 05-23-2012, 06:12 PM
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anyone still using this guide with the new Fork HCFR?
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post #682 of 748 Old 05-24-2012, 06:36 PM
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hey guys, here are my latest results.

my grayscale from 30 IRE to 90 IRE is pretty good. 20 IRE is a little off.

my concern here is gamma. it seems very jumpy.

any suggestions on correcting 20IRE and gamma? thanks












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post #683 of 748 Old 07-30-2012, 06:26 AM
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EPSON 5010 calibration using this guide:

Due to a lightning storm the HDMI ports on my 6500ub died, so I decided to get a new 5010 instead of feeding the 6500 by component (which may or may not have worked - I never checked (but S-video was OK)).

I just did a quick calibration using this guide for the 5010 using low lamp (eco) and dynamic setting. I know dynamic doesn't produce the best calibration results but I have a Carada BW 118" diagonal screen and wanted to see what this new projector could do.

The new 230 watt lamp in this seems very good, as I got 22 ftL from eco mode and I didn't have to pull the overall contrast down in order to have enough red to do the calibration. This is also with 0 hours on the lamp, so I'll check it later and may move to natural setting since I have some much spare ftL's.

I only had a chance to watch one Blu Ray, Space Cowboys. The space scenes sure looked good.

Here are the files. I'm using a EyeOne LT offset from my EyeOne pro.
Dynamic 5010 eco 0 hrs.xls 563k .xls file
5010 eco 0 hrs color temp.jpg 90k .jpg file
5010 eco 0 hrs gamma.jpg 110k .jpg file
5010 eco 0 hrs luminance.jpg 92k .jpg file
5010 eco 0 hrs RBG levels.jpg 130k .jpg file
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ID:	62693   Click image for larger version

Name:	5010 eco 0 hrs gamma.jpg
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Name:	5010 eco 0 hrs luminance.jpg
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ID:	62695   Click image for larger version

Name:	5010 eco 0 hrs RBG levels.jpg
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File Type: xls Dynamic 5010 eco 0 hrs.xls (562.5 KB, 82 views)
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post #684 of 748 Old 08-15-2012, 01:07 PM
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I went back and worked on the calibration of my new 5010 a little more on the gamma. The default gamma is almost a perfect 2.22. I set the gamma sliders similar to my 6500 and that's why my first attempt was up around 2.3.

I'm also getting a little over 1000 lumens in ECO mode. Attached is the new gamma graph with only a slight change in 2 of the sliders. All others were at default.

5010 eco 10 hrs gamma.jpg 107k .jpg file
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post #685 of 748 Old 08-23-2012, 08:41 AM
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KND,

I have the 6500UB now and am considering the 5010. Can you see a difference in the brightness output in dynamic mode between the 6500 and the 5010? I am wondering if the lumens output in this mode is about the same or is it higher with the 5010?
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post #686 of 748 Old 08-23-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molson1042 View Post

KND,
I have the 6500UB now and am considering the 5010. Can you see a difference in the brightness output in dynamic mode between the 6500 and the 5010? I am wondering if the lumens output in this mode is about the same or is it higher with the 5010?

In dynamic mode the 6500UB has around three hundred more lumens than the 5010.
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post #687 of 748 Old 08-23-2012, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molson1042 View Post

KND,
I have the 6500UB now and am considering the 5010. Can you see a difference in the brightness output in dynamic mode between the 6500 and the 5010? I am wondering if the lumens output in this mode is about the same or is it higher with the 5010?

I kept calibration files from the 6500, so I can compare the 2 calibrations. The 6500ub with about 5 hours on a new bulb produced about 670 lumens (low lamp, dynamic). The 5010 with about 5 hours on a new bulb produces about 1050 lumens (eco mode (low lamp), dynamic).

I beleive this nearly 60% improvement in lumen output is due to 3 things. My 6500ub had some light leakage through the front vent, which caused some loss. The 6500 has a 200 watt bulb and the 5010 has a 230 watt bulb. Thirdly and maybe the most important is that I had to pull the overall contrast down on the 6500 in order to get a flat gamma curve and to calibrate the white balance properly. I had to do this because I was running out of red and the only way to compensate for this was to pull down the overall contrast. I don't remember how much light was lost from this (I had to pull the overall contrast down to -10), but can't beleive it would be more than about 100 lumens.

On the 5010, this is not needed as the bulb has plenty of red available. We'll see over time.

I wasn't intending to purchase a new projector, but the repair bill on the 6500 was going to be close to $2,000 so I decided to get the 5010. I'm very pleased with the improvements over the 6500ub. The overall picture is sharper, brighter, and I think the unit is slightly quieter than the 6500 (but this wasn't a problem in my setup).

I hope this helps.
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post #688 of 748 Old 08-23-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

In dynamic mode the 6500UB has around three hundred more lumens than the 5010.

Mike,
This has not been my experience, at least if they are both calibrated similarly. I'm getting about 55% more lumens from the 5010 than the 6500ub.
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post #689 of 748 Old 09-14-2012, 07:24 AM
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Hi All,

My first post but I have been following this forum for months. I have read each and every post in this thread. Thank you all very much for all the hard work you put in it and shared with others. You made calibration possible for some one like me.

Please see attached my calibration of my first front projector Epson 3010. Please let me know what you think. To me it looks really good but I’m not as experienced as you are.

The question I have is: I do not really see that much improvement in the picture after the calibration – I mean there is some improvement but I think I expected to be blown away after reading some of the posts in this thread.

Is there anything I can still improve in the calibration? I’m projecting from 11.5’ on 120” 0.8 Gray home made screen in light controlled room.

Thanks

Epson 3010 Gama 2.22.zip 382k .zip file

Custom Gama 2.22.zip 6k .zip file
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File Type: zip Custom Gama 2.22.zip (5.6 KB, 68 views)
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post #690 of 748 Old 09-14-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzieju1 View Post

Hi All,
My first post but I have been following this forum for months. I have read each and every post in this thread. Thank you all very much for all the hard work you put in it and shared with others. You made calibration possible for some one like me.
Please see attached my calibration of my first front projector Epson 3010. Please let me know what you think. To me it looks really good but I’m not as experienced as you are.
The question I have is: I do not really see that much improvement in the picture after the calibration – I mean there is some improvement but I think I expected to be blown away after reading some of the posts in this thread.
Is there anything I can still improve in the calibration? I’m projecting from 11.5’ on 120” 0.8 Gray home made screen in light controlled room.
Thanks
[

I tried calibrating my 3010 once but gave up as my light meter seemed to be defective as I could not get the primary green to move to its ideal spot.

Could you please share your calibration settings ?
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