Official JVC RS25/HD950 Owners Thread! - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 1044 Old 10-08-2009, 05:32 AM
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Hi, I'm new here also, but not new to projectors.

I am coming from a BenQ Pe8700, to a BenQ Pe8720 to my new JVC RS25.

Have gone straight to Jason's setting, but am having a hard time finding the locations for the settings High R, High G, High B, Low R, Low G and Low B. Jason's values are 19, -9, 18, 0, 0, 1.

Could someone please help me find these settings?

Thanks in advance,
Chris
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post #62 of 1044 Old 10-08-2009, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Its cruel. Love is blind. I love my .... Its big, fuzzy, warm and luvs me. You moron. See how it handles this test pattern. You are in luv with a beast. I hope the new model is a lovable puppy. Yea but it slobbers and if you give it water and don`t walk it, it will piss on your carpet. The beast just opens the door and lets herself into the bathroom. Just got indoor plumbing. I`ve got a good one and I didn`t need no professional calibration from Jason.

I think Mark finally went 'round the bend. I do love my dog, though.
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post #63 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 12:47 AM
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"The FI isn't really needed for sports in my opinion from what I've seen so far" I first mentioned after not much time trying it out.

I hadn't seen enough really with good signals and had not tried the high setting. Well I just spent 3 hours with HDTV channels from very good cable I get from Charter on the high setting. As mentioned before, 8.5' wide 16x9 Hi Power now with the RS25. Running on normal lamp setting -3 with the iris and only 24 hours on new lamp. Certainly a bright, realistic looking image for sports and video acquisition. Also very revealing when less than a stellar broadcast. Some broadcasts are clean and beautiful and some are crap. I run through a Flea first and an Edge. Minimal settings on the Flea....+1 for mosquito NR, +1 regular NR and +1 block artifact reduction. Excellent performance at those levels with next to no loss of detail. Purists will probably cringe at what I say next about the detail enhancement level I am using with the Flea but I've spent hours with the split screen function comparing fine detail with the processed and unprocessed versions of the signal. And looking for any possible negative artifacts. I choose to run it at +13 most often....just 2 clicks below max. All it does is amazingly, cleanly take that beautifully "scrubbed" signal and really add incredible detail to everything. If there is anything negative going on I sure can't see it and even if there is something faintly, next to impossible to see happening, it's a tiny price to pay for the benefit gained in the images from the cleanest sources.

I watched much of game 1 with the Angels and Red Sox which had an outstanding feed, and flipped back and forth to the Nebraska & Missouri football game being played on artificial turf in the rain. Another excellent signal with great highlights with all the water and deep shadow detail. The frame interpolation on "high" did absolutely nothing but add a greater depth and increased sense of 3D to many of the angles, scenes & images. No loss of that great detail with the clean broadcasts, no other type of artifacts being added that impacted negatively in any way. The PQ reacted just as it would without the Clearmotion function on, to the variety of quality from all the various cameras and camera angles. Some scenes really were beautiful with their depth. No problem with baseballs and footballs being thrown across the screen. Or fast motion. Often the depth would impress on the sideline cameras just in close on fairly stationary subjects.

I tried it with the FI on "low". Since nothing negative seemed to be going on with it on high, nothing seemed to be gained in reducing any unwanted side effect. It was a negative effect actually in that the low setting did not have as much depth and 3D as the high setting.

If rumours are true and information correct that JVC will be tweaking the performance of the clearmotion function with firmware updates, maybe there will be even more across the board improvement as well, in addition to addressing what's apparently being seen negatively when used with 24FPS. I don't care about it for movies and most people here describe disliking the effect it has on them. But the experience of watching the sports programming and a lot of other channels and variety of programming for 3 hours with it on high no less, makes me want to continue. ESPN Sportscenter has really exciting, vibrant, 3D graphics that get more complex every year it seems, and these looked beautiful and more dimensional too with the FI on. I highly recommend checking it out for the sports fans here who will be watching more than movies with the new JVCs.
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post #64 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 01:32 AM
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With regards to FI, I can't say I have noticed all the 3D/depth differences. But I can say when watching high speed motor sport, as the camera pans quickly from side to side, the FI can make a large difference. Without FI, I can almost see double images on the fast moving backdrops. With FI, it pans silky smooth preserving the detail.

So I can vouch for FI for sports materials.
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post #65 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Okay. I just spent 5 minutes watching this pattern. I don't see anything out of the ordinary from my seating. No color shifting. Nothing. If I plant my face in the pixels, I can see something in the first and last rows of pixels. Not a red color shift but maybe a little discoloration. Maybe it is a bit of misconvergence. That is looking really hard for something to see.

Maybe I just have a good unit.

Oops. It turns out that I was looking at the wrong 1080i pattern the whole time. Yes. I see the color shifting.

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post #66 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Oops. It turns out that I was looking at the wrong 1080i pattern the whole time. Yes. I see the color shifting.

I have spent more time on this with my 950. I can see what I can describe as a colour cast over the entire image. When I pause, whites become whiter. When the image is moving, the image looks more pink. But I do not see any red trails in the boxes themselves, and certainly nothing that changes as the boxes move in one direction or another. So my belief is that the behaviour is different in the 950, but without having seen what it looks like on other models I can't be sure. Does anyone have a video of the problem with this test card?
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post #67 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I have spent more time on this with my 950. I can see what I can describe as a colour cast over the entire image. When I pause, whites become whiter. When the image is moving, the image looks more pink. But I do not see any red trails in the boxes themselves, and certainly nothing that changes as the boxes move in one direction or another. So my belief is that the behaviour is different in the 950, but without having seen what it looks like on other models I can't be sure. Does anyone have a video of the problem with this test card?

This is what I see. There are no trails, just color shifts.

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post #68 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

This is what I see. There are no trails, just color shifts.

Thanks for having a look. I would have been very surprised if the pattern looked clean since I think every unit would exhibit this behavior.

Its not trails but rather a pink/red fringing that appears. Hopefully its gone with the RS25/35.
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post #69 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I have spent more time on this with my 950. I can see what I can describe as a colour cast over the entire image. When I pause, whites become whiter. When the image is moving, the image looks more pink. But I do not see any red trails in the boxes themselves, and certainly nothing that changes as the boxes move in one direction or another. So my belief is that the behaviour is different in the 950, but without having seen what it looks like on other models I can't be sure. Does anyone have a video of the problem with this test card?

Sounds like it is improved. Will you be watching some football by any chance tonight (I assume there is a college game) or this weekend? If so, just stare at the referrers striped shirts. If the RS25 still have this artifact, then as the referees move you will see the white strips within their zebra shirts flash/flicker some red color. If their shirts remain black and white during movement then we can assume it is solved or at least nicely improved. Please keep us posted. Thanks!
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post #70 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Sounds like it is improved. Will you be watching some football by any chance tonight (I assume there is a college game) or this weekend? If so, just stare at the referrers striped shirts. If the RS25 still have this artifact, then as the referees move you will see the white strips within their zebra shirts flash/flicker some red color. If their shirts remain black and white during movement then we can assume it is solved or at least nicely improved. Please keep us posted. Thanks!

When JonStatt watches football he is watching something different than we are!

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post #71 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 06:35 AM
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Indeed...I am in the UK. So I can't help with the (US) football I'm afraid. I will spend some more play time over the weekend and try and "stimulate" the problem. As I said before, I definitely saw an issue with rapidly scrolling white credits on black when I had my HD1. But normally they don't move that quickly. So I need to try and find them again....
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post #72 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 08:50 AM
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Why are there no screenshots from the RS25/HD950 here? Should they not be in this thread? Please let me know if they shouldn't be here and I will remove them.

But, for anyone interested, here are some screenshots from my RS25. I did not tweak any settings. The screen is a DIY Seymour AV AT 112" 2.35:1 (121" diagonal). The pj is shelf mounted about 16'6" away and about 12" above the top of the screen. The first 2 pics are in THX mode and the last 5 pics are in Cinema 3 mode. I couldn't pause the game as I don't have an HD DVR. The ambient light in the room consisted of 6 sconces and ropelight dimmed to about 20% on the GE QS.

I'm not the best with the camera, but here you go:













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post #73 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishall11 View Post

Hi, I'm new here also, but not new to projectors.

I am coming from a BenQ Pe8700, to a BenQ Pe8720 to my new JVC RS25.

Have gone straight to Jason's setting, but am having a hard time finding the locations for the settings High R, High G, High B, Low R, Low G and Low B. Jason's values are 19, -9, 18, 0, 0, 1.

Could someone please help me find these settings?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

Under the main menu, Color Temp...choose Custom 1 (or 2 or 3) and you will see them. Note however, the settings in the review piece are ONLY for the review piece. You literally have just as much chance of hurting the picture as helping by copying my settings. That is why people opt for calibration when buying displays. I have done about 20 RS25 calibrations so far and they are all over the board for settings (especially the grayscale and CMS).
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post #74 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Under the main menu, Color Temp...choose Custom 1 (or 2 or 3) and you will see them. Note however, the settings in the review piece are ONLY for the review piece. You literally have just as much chance of hurting the picture as helping by copying my settings. That is why people opt for calibration when buying displays. I have done about 20 RS25 calibrations so far and they are all over the board for settings (especially the grayscale and CMS).

Does that mean the RS25s are not well set-up out of the factory (i.e. all the same level of over-saturation etc)? I realise that all Pjs are unique in their characteristics to some extent. But the THX mode at least should be consistent across them, no?
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post #75 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 09:49 AM
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Short answer...no.
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post #76 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 02:57 PM
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Without any calibration, brand new RS25, by logic, will show a better overall picture in THX mode. What really caught my attention in this thread was my asking as how the THX mode performed. One gentle owner said that the picture (in films, I inferred) was pretty much like the image shown by his calibrated unit. The difference came out in sports.


The RS 20 showed an stunning performance with the use of the CMS, greyscale, etc. In my opinion it will happen again. I really hope that Art Fiermman and LovingDVD, this time, don't have the long working hours to reach the best of this pj potencial. As to the last one, in my view, he was recognized explicitly as a respectable expert on the subject. By no means I intend to discredit any calibrator, for I'm sure they all have a high degree of expertise. I just stated a fact that is recorded in a professional and well accredited site.
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post #77 of 1044 Old 10-09-2009, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by waltie View Post

Without any calibration, brand new RS25, by logic, will show a better overall picture in THX mode. What really caught my attention in this thread was my asking as how the THX mode performed. One gentle owner said that the picture (in films, I inferred) was pretty much like the image shown by his calibrated unit. The difference came out in sports.


The RS 20 showed an stunning performance with the use of the CMS, greyscale, etc. In my opinion it will happen again. I really hope that Art Fiermman and LovingDVD, this time, don't have the long working hours to reach the best of this pj potencial. As to the last one, in my view, he was recognized explicitly as a respectable expert on the subject. By no means I intend to discredit any calibrator, for I'm sure they all have a high degree of expertise. I just stated a fact that is recorded in a professional and well accredited site.

Thanks. I do not anticipate the CMS being a strenuous exercise. Last time it was made very challenging because the CMS didn't work right, so we had to get very creative in finding good tradeoffs and balances. Now that it is fixed, its pretty straight forward and relatively quick to dial in.

In fact, I could be off about this, but I anticipate that my CMS settings will be a good starting point for CMS calibration in the RS25/35. At least, that is my plan - to plug in my CMS settings from the RS25 and see how we measure out...
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post #78 of 1044 Old 10-10-2009, 08:28 AM
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Spent a lot more time experimenting last night. Do try this without supervision at home kids.... OMbleepingG

Kicked the lamp to high and kept the iris at minus 3. I wanted daylight scenes to have the vividness off the Hi Power of actual daylight for my next programming test.....but with care taken with contrast setting to not crush whites. Clearmotion still set on high.

Planet Earth. Mountains......Chapter 3......the opening aerial footage. You have to see it to believe it. Seriously......look Ma no glasses 3D effect.

Edit: Top of page 3 not 2

Edit 2: Realized I forgot to add that with all this much brightness, I was also experimenting with this scene from Mountains chapter 3 with 2.5 gamma. Looks terrific....more depth for this footage than 2.4 or less
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post #79 of 1044 Old 10-10-2009, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Spent a lot more time experimenting last night. Do try this without supervision at home kids.... OMbleepingG

Kicked the lamp to high and kept the iris at minus 3. I wanted daylight scenes to have the vividness off the Hi Power of actual daylight for my next programming test.....but with care taken with contrast setting to not crush whites. Clearmotion still set on high.

Planet Earth. Mountains......Chapter 3......the opening aerial footage. You have to see it to believe it. Seriously......look Ma no glasses 3D effect.

Edit: Top of page 3 not 2

Great to hear. Are you using the CMS? Which mode do you have set? I ask because the colors look oversaturated and not Rec 709 unless it is the camera. Still very nice though. The baseball screen shot looks like a plasma!
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post #80 of 1044 Old 10-10-2009, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Great to hear. Are you using the CMS? Which mode do you have set? I ask because the colors look oversaturated and not Rec 709 unless it is the camera. Still very nice though. The baseball screen shot looks like a plasma!

I am, yes. Jason calibrated user 1 for me. But I haven't posted any screen shots...those are another poster's.
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post #81 of 1044 Old 10-10-2009, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm still waiting for my screen to arrive. However, I've been watching a lot using my make-shift, temporary setup. I haven't messed with any settings on the 950 yet, I simply put her in the "Natural" mode and rock n roll. The ALDS between my Twins & Yanks has looked great. (not including bad calls from umps) I'm impressed with how "crispy" white the uniforms are...even on a bed sheet. I can only imagine how much better this will look once I get everything installed and finalized.

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post #82 of 1044 Old 10-12-2009, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Great to hear. Are you using the CMS? Which mode do you have set? I ask because the colors look oversaturated and not Rec 709 unless it is the camera. Still very nice though. The baseball screen shot looks like a plasma!

I'm not very good with the camera so it is difficult to show you exactly what the screen looks like. Any suggestions?

I did not alter any of the out-of-the-box settings on the RS25. I posted the modes incorrectly in my earlier post - I'll edit. The first 2 shots are in THX mode and the last 5 are in Cinema 3.

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post #83 of 1044 Old 10-12-2009, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kjlewie View Post

I'm not very good with the camera so it is difficult to show you exactly what the screen looks like. Any suggestions?

I did not alter any of the out-of-the-box settings on the RS25. I posted the modes incorrectly in my earlier post - I'll edit. The first 2 shots are in THX mode and the last 5 are in Cinema 3.

Thanks for the clarification.
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post #84 of 1044 Old 10-12-2009, 03:24 PM
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10 hours on my RS25 now. At first watching high def sat feed I was starting to wonder why I upgraded from my SIM2 Domino 20. But then when I watched some movies that I had watched before on satellite I realized many picture details which I had never seen before i.e. the cubicle walls in the early scenes in "Wanted".

Once I watched "I am Legend" on BR I was blown away. I thought that I was right there watching the scenes unfold.

Now if only I could change my first generation Stewart Firehawk then I would have visual nirvana...well at least for me.
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post #85 of 1044 Old 10-12-2009, 09:13 PM
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...Now if only I could change my first generation Stewart Firehawk then I would have visual nirvana...well at least for me.

What are you wanting to change the screen too, and why? I still have a first gen Firehawk (nice piece, no sparklies etc). I think its a great match for my room and the RS20, as it helps keep room reflections to a minimum. I have a pretty good room light control-wise, but reflections are important to keep in control for me.
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post #86 of 1044 Old 10-13-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I have looked very carefully at ref's jerseys. I have also looked at tickers. Like Sargent Schultz, "I see nothing."

If I curse you later, I hope that you understand.

I see this artifact all the time on my HD750 - put an HD hockey game on...I notice it quite often during that...

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post #87 of 1044 Old 10-14-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

What are you wanting to change the screen too, and why? I still have a first gen Firehawk (nice piece, no sparklies etc). I think its a great match for my room and the RS20, as it helps keep room reflections to a minimum. I have a pretty good room light control-wise, but reflections are important to keep in control for me.

I am not really sure what to change the screen to except that I don't really like how the screen deals with white scenes.

I am still trying to get comfortable with my decision to switch from DLP to the RS25. I definitely notice more issues such as motion blur and when I watch HD hockey games I notice on things like the hockey players sticks a sort of tri color surrounding them. I was not sensitive to RBE with DLP so now I am a little frustrated that even though the picture is better given that it is HD it is also now more digital and I notice more flaws.
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post #88 of 1044 Old 10-14-2009, 10:34 AM
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You may want to go back to a single chip DLP machine, its a question of priorities and trade offs which can of course differ in machines based on the same technology but say having a better lens or a different color wheel.
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post #89 of 1044 Old 10-14-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpauline View Post

I am not really sure what to change the screen to except that I don't really like how the screen deals with white scenes.

I am still trying to get comfortable with my decision to switch from DLP to the RS25. I definitely notice more issues such as motion blur and when I watch HD hockey games I notice on things like the hockey players sticks a sort of tri color surrounding them. I was not sensitive to RBE with DLP so now I am a little frustrated that even though the picture is better given that it is HD it is also now more digital and I notice more flaws.

Are you sure it is the screen and not the projector? Sounds like you may have changed both at the same time?
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post #90 of 1044 Old 10-14-2009, 10:53 AM
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No I did not change them both at the same time. I bought the screen a number of years ago when I had a SIM2 HT200. I then replaced the HT200 with a Domino 20 which I loved except I wanted to be able to watch 1080P. Now I have the RS25 and I am not that impressed which is a little late now that I have it at home :-(

I guess that I thought that going to the RS25 would be a huge step which it was in ability to display 1080P but a step back in introducing other technology specific deficits.

As for the screen I always thought that the first gen Firehawk did a good job in helping make the blacks look blacker. However of course there is a trade off as it makes the whites not so white. Just on a quest like everyone else for the best picture quality available with my limited budget.
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