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post #14341 of 14444 Old 05-27-2018, 06:48 AM
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Unfortunately, the degradation issue has plagued Sony on many units. As an 1100 owner, I think the problem has always been a bit of a mystery. Some say lack of use and humid conditions, other feel it is heat related. On thing that I can say with certainty,is that if your unit is having brightness issues, gamma issues or color hue and saturation issues most likely it is an optical block issue. In my opinion, if you don't have these symptoms then elevated black floor is more than likely a function of a not often discussed chroma bug with the units. Some units do not do a correct color conversion which caused elevated blacks. Otherwise the units are fantastic still in this day an age. I may upgrade to a RS4500 or VW 5000 at some point in the future.
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post #14342 of 14444 Old 05-27-2018, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
Unfortunately, the degradation issue has plagued Sony on many units. As an 1100 owner, I think the problem has always been a bit of a mystery. Some say lack of use and humid conditions, other feel it is heat related. On thing that I can say with certainty,is that if your unit is having brightness issues, gamma issues or color hue and saturation issues most likely it is an optical block issue. In my opinion, if you don't have these symptoms then elevated black floor is more than likely a function of a not often discussed chroma bug with the units. Some units do not do a correct color conversion which caused elevated blacks. Otherwise the units are fantastic still in this day an age. I may upgrade to a RS4500 or VW 5000 at some point in the future.
In about 6 years I hope to be picking up an rs4500 on Ebay for a knockown price

In all seriousness though ,when it comes to Rec709(at least with the unit I have) my 1000es outshines my rs600 with some degree of comfort in all areas except contrast.......but even there it is close(in rec 709).
I love the rs600, it's a beautiful machine,..... but in rec709....the 1000es is just more beautiful

The problem for the 1000/1100es arises with the WCG/non HDR compatibility with 4K UHD.

Now I have the Sony 800 and Oppo 203 UHD players......and hands down.....the Sony 800 is superior in it's tone mapping compared to the Oppo 203 when hooked up to the 1000es.

But a Lumagen is the only way to go to truly optimize the 1000/1100es with the UHD spec.

If I had the bucks( I don't)......I would get a Lumagen and I am confident(when amalgamated with the 1000/1100es) that it would give the 2 laser behemoths(rs4500 and the 5000) a run for their money.

And it is unfortunate that the 1000es was probably too far ahead of the curve in 2011/12.....only to fall behind the curve when the UHD spec was finalized in 2015.
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post #14343 of 14444 Old 05-28-2018, 05:42 AM
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I find it kind of ironic:

That I have to use a native 4K PJ(the 1000es) to get optimal results with 1080p Rec709 blu ray.......and I have to use a non native 4K machine(the rs600) to optimize the WCG and HDR with 4K UHD content.
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post #14344 of 14444 Old 05-28-2018, 09:37 AM
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I wish sony had waited to upgrade the 1100 until the spec had got sorted out a bit. It is still a top tier unit though in good working order. I am using madvr and I am pretty happy with my hdr to sdr content. Happy enough to stretch the life of my 1100 until something blows me away from a picture quality standpoint.





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I find it kind of ironic:

That I have to use a native 4K PJ(the 1000es) to get optimal results with 1080p Rec709 blu ray.......and I have to use a non native 4K machine(the rs600) to optimize the WCG and HDR with 4K UHD content.
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post #14345 of 14444 Old 05-28-2018, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
I wish sony had waited to upgrade the 1100 until the spec had got sorted out a bit. It is still a top tier unit though in good working order. I am using madvr and I am pretty happy with my hdr to sdr content. Happy enough to stretch the life of my 1100 until something blows me away from a picture quality standpoint.
If you go to the Sony website.......

It is still being touted as :

The ultimate 4K home cinema projector for larger, luxury private screening rooms

https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/4k-s...s/vpl-vw1100es

Of all the projectors from 2011/12......this is the only one that I think can compete with anything out there at the moment.......right up to the rs4500 and the Sony 5000.

(it shares the same lens as the Sony 5000)
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post #14346 of 14444 Old 06-07-2018, 11:45 AM
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I'm still totally happy with my 1100 and see no reason to replace it. It is in my home theater but we use it not only for movies but regular TV watching on a daily/nightly basis... The upscaling of the Comcast/Xfinity 1080p signal to 4K is phenomenal. I have replaced one bulb which definitely booted my brightness once again but I can't tell that I have any of the "panel issues" which have been described throughout time in this thread. If it were heat and/or usage related, I would think that I would have hit it it a long time ago.


I still don't like the look of HDR on most TVs but haven't really compared any HDR capable projectors with non-HDR. I still sit down in front of my 145" screen and am in awe of the picture quality/crispness/brightness.
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post #14347 of 14444 Old 06-11-2018, 04:52 AM
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I really enjoy the HDR/2020 (P3) picture of my VW 1100 with the little help from his friends Isco 1.25 and Lumagen Pro incl. Intensiv Tone Mapping.
After one year my 2. lamp is near 400h and
IF I would place a 885 next to him, the only thing I miss would be Light....but don't do it
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post #14348 of 14444 Old 06-20-2018, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post
In about 6 years I hope to be picking up an rs4500 on Ebay for a knockown price

In all seriousness though ,when it comes to Rec709(at least with the unit I have) my 1000es outshines my rs600 with some degree of comfort in all areas except contrast.......but even there it is close(in rec 709).
I love the rs600, it's a beautiful machine,..... but in rec709....the 1000es is just more beautiful

The problem for the 1000/1100es arises with the WCG/non HDR compatibility with 4K UHD.

Now I have the Sony 800 and Oppo 203 UHD players......and hands down.....the Sony 800 is superior in it's tone mapping compared to the Oppo 203 when hooked up to the 1000es.

But a Lumagen is the only way to go to truly optimize the 1000/1100es with the UHD spec.

If I had the bucks( I don't)......I would get a Lumagen and I am confident(when amalgamated with the 1000/1100es) that it would give the 2 laser behemoths(rs4500 and the 5000) a run for their money.

And it is unfortunate that the 1000es was probably too far ahead of the curve in 2011/12.....only to fall behind the curve when the UHD spec was finalized in 2015.

I have the Oppo 203 and it is terrible with HDR to SDR conversion. Regular blu-rays look better to me. I'm planning on trying one of the new Panasonics UB-420/820, which are to be released this summer. How much better is the 800 versus the 203? What settings are you using on the 1000es. I feel like tones and contrast is off with the Oppo conversion.

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post #14349 of 14444 Old 06-20-2018, 07:10 AM
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Hello Ben,

is not only done by using the tone mapping 203/ sony.
To get full adantage of UHD's , you need a calibrator, who to create a 3LUT to "engage" the whole range of P3 colors and optimise luminance of exactly your VW 1100 unit and save this at a Lumagen pro in the chain.
With my very pure Words sorry
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post #14350 of 14444 Old 06-26-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Hello Ben,

is not only done by using the tone mapping 203/ sony.
To get full adantage of UHD's , you need a calibrator, who to create a 3LUT to "engage" the whole range of P3 colors and optimise luminance of exactly your VW 1100 unit and save this at a Lumagen pro in the chain.
With my very pure Words sorry
Problem is Lumagen Pro is in perpetual beta, and the calibration is pretty expensive, besides this still being a moving target.

Not paying a calibrator big dollars to do a calibration on a beta unit for a beta process.

Matt
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post #14351 of 14444 Old 06-28-2018, 01:49 PM
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I have the Sony X800 Blu-ray and it does a good job of mapping to the 1100. There are some video settings "options" you can select at 4K Blu-ray playback time which tweak the display image. I have found that I do need to tweak the settings from disc to disc... It appears that all 4K discs aren't created equally. Settings that work perfectly on one disc might have bright whites that "bloom" on another disk.


All in all, I'm happy with my setup without having to have any kind of intermediate video mapping device between the projector and devices.
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post #14352 of 14444 Old 06-29-2018, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SLYDoggie View Post
I have the Sony X800 Blu-ray and it does a good job of mapping to the 1100. There are some video settings "options" you can select at 4K Blu-ray playback time which tweak the display image. I have found that I do need to tweak the settings from disc to disc... It appears that all 4K discs aren't created equally. Settings that work perfectly on one disc might have bright whites that "bloom" on another disk.


All in all, I'm happy with my setup without having to have any kind of intermediate video mapping device between the projector and devices.
I honestly think that if the the X800 had come out back in late 2015/early 2016......many more would have held on to their 1000/1100s.

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post #14353 of 14444 Old 06-30-2018, 05:37 PM
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I agree 100%. I almost let go of mine for pennies on the dollar. I am glad that I kept it.



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I honestly think that if the the X800 had come out back in late 2015/early 2016......many more would have held on to their 1000/1100s.
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post #14354 of 14444 Old 07-01-2018, 03:34 AM
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All in all, I'm happy with my setup without having to have any kind of intermediate video mapping device between the projector and devices.
I too like to minimise the processing levels in a chain of devices, up to 3 devices in a typical chain can each be processing the signal, (4 if yo add an outboard video processor) which is not the best idea for signal purity, or so they say.

I am surprised at the amount of enthusiasts who readily put extra processing devices in the chain. I guess enthusiasts and purists are not necessarily one and the same.
Although, with HDR images varying so much you can see why people would do this to improve the image produced with the massive amount of inconsistently mastered HDR material that is out there.

Having my 760 calibrated was singularly the best thing I did as far as the image quality is concerned.
Surprisingly, even though the picture was impressive out of the box, the accuracy of the greyscale and colours was out by a significant amount!

It now basically needs no messing (save for the odd tweak occasionally) between discs and black levels and detail have improved greatly.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #14355 of 14444 Old 08-09-2018, 11:57 AM
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Have any of you guys tried the new Panasonic UB820 with the 1000/1100? I'm getting ready to pull the trigger, but hate to waste my money again like I did on the Oppo. I'm trying to avoid the Lumagen route, if possible.

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post #14356 of 14444 Old 08-09-2018, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post
Have any of you guys tried the new Panasonic UB820 with the 1000/1100? I'm getting ready to pull the trigger, but hate to waste my money again like I did on the Oppo. I'm trying to avoid the Lumagen route, if possible.
What do you mean waste your money. Sell the Oppo and you will be able to buy the 820 and have several hundred left over.
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post #14357 of 14444 Old 08-10-2018, 03:29 AM
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I'm only a movie geek and search for a solution to get 2020/P3 and HDR on my VW 1100 for a long time, but i think is not possible to get this running without creating a 3 LUT Messurement in conclusion with a new calibration and "gain" the projetor.
All this is load and save at the lumagen pro and leave it, in chain between my Oppo 203 and 1100,
otherwise you will not have the same (correct ?) results by using players (Pana or Oppo) tone mapping only. In my pure amateur words...
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post #14358 of 14444 Old 08-18-2018, 10:38 AM
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I’ve got a similar setup and the constant HDR -> SDR necessary tweaking from UHD BD disc to disc is, to say the least, terribly frustrating to the point that I haven’t purchased any UHD BDs lately.

But otherwise my almost four-year-old VPL-VW1100ES is running strong at 1,400 hours of usage and I’m very, very happy with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLYDoggie View Post
I have the Sony X800 Blu-ray and it does a good job of mapping to the 1100. There are some video settings "options" you can select at 4K Blu-ray playback time which tweak the display image. I have found that I do need to tweak the settings from disc to disc... It appears that all 4K discs aren't created equally. Settings that work perfectly on one disc might have bright whites that "bloom" on another disk.


All in all, I'm happy with my setup without having to have any kind of intermediate video mapping device between the projector and devices.
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post #14359 of 14444 Old 08-18-2018, 10:55 AM
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I’ve got a similar setup and the constant HDR -> SDR necessary tweaking from UHD BD disc to disc is, to say the least, terribly frustrating to the point that I haven’t purchased any UHD BDs lately.

But otherwise my almost four-year-old VPL-VW1100ES is running strong at 1,400 hours of usage and I’m very, very happy with it.

To be honest, I don't really see much (if any) difference between the PJ upscaled 1080p discs and the UHD discs. I rarely buy a UHD disc unless it also comes with 3D (which is rarely the case). I'm more into 3D and having my 3D movies upscaled to 4K is spectacular. The VPL-VW1100 does such a great job of upscaling that I just don't see the need to spend the extra money for the UHD version.
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post #14360 of 14444 Old 08-18-2018, 04:01 PM
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I hear you and I second you.

Back in 2007 I bought my first HD DVD player and not too long afterwards my first Blu-ray player. From that moment on I stopped buying SD DVDs since I considered them obsolete technology. But even after I had bought the UBP-X800 I kept on buying BDs because of the reasons abovementioned.

In the meantime, I love my VPL-VW1100ES!

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To be honest, I don't really see much (if any) difference between the PJ upscaled 1080p discs and the UHD discs. I rarely buy a UHD disc unless it also comes with 3D (which is rarely the case). I'm more into 3D and having my 3D movies upscaled to 4K is spectacular. The VPL-VW1100 does such a great job of upscaling that I just don't see the need to spend the extra money for the UHD version.
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post #14361 of 14444 Old 08-21-2018, 05:23 AM
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there is another big point by using 1080p input, so you can use the FI for UHD Disc as well !
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post #14362 of 14444 Old 08-22-2018, 11:40 AM
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What do you mean waste your money. Sell the Oppo and you will be able to buy the 820 and have several hundred left over.
Thanks Mike. I'll look into selling the Oppo.

My Panasonic UB820 was delivered today. I'll hook it up tonight or tomorrow and will report back. I'm hoping to breath new life into the beast, which I bought from Mike at the launch. I'm trying to figure out how to setup the projector and the player at the moment. It seems like I should set the projector for 2.4 Gamma, BT2020, and defaults on most of the other settings. I'm curious as to what I should do with normal blu-rays - return to 709 and let the projector scale or have the UB820 handle color mapping and the scaling to 4K in the BT2020 domain. I'll play with both, but chime in if you have any thoughts on it.

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post #14363 of 14444 Old 08-22-2018, 12:22 PM
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Thanks Mike. I'll look into selling the Oppo.

My Panasonic UB820 was delivered today. I'll hook it up tonight or tomorrow and will report back. I'm hoping to breath new life into the beast, which I bought from Mike at the launch. I'm trying to figure out how to setup the projector and the player at the moment. It seems like I should set the projector for 2.4 Gamma, BT2020, and defaults on most of the other settings. I'm curious as to what I should do with normal blu-rays - return to 709 and let the projector scale or have the UB820 handle color mapping and the scaling to 4K in the BT2020 domain. I'll play with both, but chime in if you have any thoughts on it.
If I did not need the vertical stretch feature of the Oppo, I would have already sold my 203. Not often that you can buy a piece of AV gear and make money selling it a year later.
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post #14364 of 14444 Old 08-23-2018, 11:45 AM
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If I did not need the vertical stretch feature of the Oppo, I would have already sold my 203. Not often that you can buy a piece of AV gear and make money selling it a year later.
I bought the Oppo 203 primarily for it's ability for the vertical stretch in 4K.

But the 1000es's ability to do a vertical stretch in 1080p is sharper and cleaner than the 4K stretch of the oppo.

Of course I did not know this until I was able to do the comparison.

Also the 800 is superior(to the Oppo 203) with it regards to tone map the 4k stuff for the 1000es.

So I set my UHDs to 1080p and allow the 1000es to do a vertical stretch...so i can use my anamorphic lens....and then i allow the 800 to take care of the color reproduction.

It's in it's 8th year.....but the 1000/1100es still packs a wallop.
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post #14365 of 14444 Old 08-27-2018, 05:09 AM
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I've had a little time, but not enough, to play with the Panasonic 820 blu-ray player. So far, I'm impressed, but I'm not sure I have it set up just right. The tone mapping is a night and day improvement over the Oppo 203, which was unwatchable. I have hope that this little player will take me through another generation of tech.

The Panasonic has a setting to convert HDR to either SDR/BT2020 or SDR 709. I chose BT/2020. I have the projector set for DCI, since I don't have a BT2020 setting. However, the player indicates that it is putting out SDR/709. See pic below.

Also, any thoughts on whether one should run in low lamp mode with a higher DR setting or high lamp mode with a lower DR setting with a newer bulb (I'm finally going to replace the original with my upgrade package bulb)? What are your thoughts on using the dynamic iris? With HDR/SDR conversion, it seems like a several things may be competing with one another. Appreciate the feedback.
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post #14366 of 14444 Old 08-27-2018, 07:19 AM
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What means the Player sends only Rec. 709 to the VW 1100 and not the gained P3 /2020 Colors, so the only difference to BRays is HDR to SDR Mapping. Right ?
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post #14367 of 14444 Old 08-27-2018, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
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I've had a little time, but not enough, to play with the Panasonic 820 blu-ray player. So far, I'm impressed, but I'm not sure I have it set up just right. The tone mapping is a night and day improvement over the Oppo 203, which was unwatchable. I have hope that this little player will take me through another generation of tech.

The Panasonic has a setting to convert HDR to either SDR/BT2020 or SDR 709. I chose BT/2020. I have the projector set for DCI, since I don't have a BT2020 setting. However, the player indicates that it is putting out SDR/709. See pic below.

Also, any thoughts on whether one should run in low lamp mode with a higher DR setting or high lamp mode with a lower DR setting with a newer bulb (I'm finally going to replace the original with my upgrade package bulb)? What are your thoughts on using the dynamic iris? With HDR/SDR conversion, it seems like a several things may be competing with one another. Appreciate the feedback.

All this color mapping "stuff" still confuses me so I hope there are some smart 1100 owners who chime in on this one. I have the Sony X800 4K Blu-ray, which does a very good job of mapping HDR to SDR, but the Panasonic HDR to SDR mapping seems like it might be an even better fit for the 1100.


Anxiously await more information and insight on this one.

Regards, Steve
Projector/Receiver - Sony VPL-VW1100ES 4K PJ & Sony STR-ZA5000ES 4K Atmos AVR
Media Devices - Panasonic DP-UB820 4K BR, Sony UBP-X800 4K BR, ATV 4K, and Roku 4K
Screen - 145" Dragonfly, 1.2 Gain, 16:9, Matte White Fixed Screen
Theater Remote/Cables - Universal MX-990 RF Remote, Monoprice Certified 18Gb HDMI Cables
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post #14368 of 14444 Old 08-28-2018, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SLYDoggie View Post
All this color mapping "stuff" still confuses me so I hope there are some smart 1100 owners who chime in on this one. I have the Sony X800 4K Blu-ray, which does a very good job of mapping HDR to SDR, but the Panasonic HDR to SDR mapping seems like it might be an even better fit for the 1100.


Anxiously await more information and insight on this one.
Mr. Dog,

From all accounts the 820 is better than the X800 for our purpose. As you indicated in an earlier post, not all UHD disks are mastered the same way with regard to luminance. That's why you have to tweak the DR settings for each disk. The 820 will dynamically adjust on a per disk basis based on the how the disk was mastered - no more tweaking, unless you are just genetically predisposed to do so (like so many of us).

Another big issue we upgraded 1000/1100 folks face is the fact that the projector has a DCI setting, but does not have a BT2020 setting. As a result, the 820 (and I suppose other players) converts the BT2020 color space to Rec. 709, which reduces the color gamut, because the projector is reporting that is can only support Rec. 709. I've found out that an HD Fury Linker can be easily configured to represent the projector as a BT2020 machine and allow the 820 to output a BT2020 signal to the projector when set for DCI. I've ordered the Linker and hope to have it by the end of the week. I'll report the findings. In the meantime, I highly recommend checking out the 820 thread in the player forum. The posts from Kris Deering of Sound & Vision fame are extremely helpful and informative. Kris seems to think that it is the best thing going for UHD and non-UHD projector owners. He has done a review on the player that has yet to be published. I think the 820 is the solution for us, but we will likely need the HD Fury Linker to take advantage of the wider color gamut.
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Last edited by Ben Withrow; 08-28-2018 at 07:13 AM.
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post #14369 of 14444 Old 08-28-2018, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SLYDoggie View Post
All this color mapping "stuff" still confuses me so I hope there are some smart 1100 owners who chime in on this one. I have the Sony X800 4K Blu-ray, which does a very good job of mapping HDR to SDR, but the Panasonic HDR to SDR mapping seems like it might be an even better fit for the 1100.


Anxiously await more information and insight on this one.
Also, there are some comparisons of the 820 to the X800 in the 820 thread. The smart folks seem to be engaged and talking over there

Ben
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post #14370 of 14444 Old 08-28-2018, 09:06 PM
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Mr. Dog,

From all accounts the 820 is better than the X800 for our purpose. As you indicated in an earlier post, not all UHD disks are mastered the same way with regard to luminance. That's why you have to tweak the DR settings for each disk. The 820 will dynamically adjust on a per disk basis based on the how the disk was mastered - no more tweaking, unless you are just genetically predisposed to do so (like so many of us).

Another big issue we upgraded 1000/1100 folks face is the fact that the projector has a DCI setting, but does not have a BT2020 setting. As a result, the 820 (and I suppose other players) converts the BT2020 color space to Rec. 709, which reduces the color gamut, because the projector is reporting that is can only support Rec. 709. I've found out that an HD Fury Linker can be easily configured to represent the projector as a BT2020 machine and allow the 820 to output a BT2020 signal to the projector when set for DCI. I've ordered the Linker and hope to have it by the end of the week. I'll report the findings. In the meantime, I highly recommend checking out the 820 thread in the player forum. The posts from Kris Deering of Sound & Vision fame are extremely helpful and informative. Kris seems to think that it is the best thing going for UHD and non-UHD projector owners. He has done a review on the player that has yet to be published. I think the 820 is the solution for us, but we will likely need the HD Fury Linker to take advantage of the wider color gamut.

Thanks Ben. I'm working my way through the 900+ posts in the 820 thread and it seems promising. I don't know that I want to add the Linker though so I'm not sure how the 820 would work with the 1100 without the linker mapping... From what I understand about the linker it just "fools" the other devices to think the projector has capabilities that it doesn't.


Will definitely follow your posts and continue to read through the 820 thread.

Regards, Steve
Projector/Receiver - Sony VPL-VW1100ES 4K PJ & Sony STR-ZA5000ES 4K Atmos AVR
Media Devices - Panasonic DP-UB820 4K BR, Sony UBP-X800 4K BR, ATV 4K, and Roku 4K
Screen - 145" Dragonfly, 1.2 Gain, 16:9, Matte White Fixed Screen
Theater Remote/Cables - Universal MX-990 RF Remote, Monoprice Certified 18Gb HDMI Cables
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