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post #31 of 499 Old 11-10-2011, 02:53 PM
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The lamp is of higher wattage which typically equals more noise. Regarding the color wheel speed my old Optoma HD80 was 6x and you could hear it whine (high pitch). When it went from 60Hz to 48Hz you could really tell the difference. Are they going to be doing 120Hz?

http://translate.google.com/translat...26prmd%3Dimvns

Contrast is listed the same (same chip more than likely) and light output is lower. So I'm guessing 2D won't be any better than the W6000.

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post #32 of 499 Old 11-10-2011, 04:50 PM
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Mike forgot to mention that we are now authorized BenQ dealers. We have the W6000 in stock, new, not refurbished for the price others have paid for refurbished. Mike will post the specs for the W7000 when we get them next week. We should have pricing around then too. But please don't ask us before then because we have no clue at this point. We will publish an announcement that we have pricing and are taking pre orders. Should have more details then as to when shipping.
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post #33 of 499 Old 11-11-2011, 10:37 AM
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Now that is some great news! Can't wait to hear the specs for the W7000.
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post #34 of 499 Old 11-11-2011, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Mike forgot to mention that we are now authorized BenQ dealers. We have the W6000 in stock, new, nort refurbished for the price others have paid for refurbished. Mike will post the specs for the W7000 when we get them next week.

Good news that you guys are now authorized Benq dealers.

The most interesting thing to find out is if the w7000 will have a flexible lens shift for shelf mounting and HP screens like the w6000 did.

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post #35 of 499 Old 11-12-2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Good news that you guys are now authorized Benq dealers.

The most interesting thing to find out is if the w7000 will have a flexible lens shift for shelf mounting and HP screens like the w6000 did.

when I took home an office projector (the BenQ SP890, big brother in lumens to the 6000) I was able to shelf mount it where I have the RS50 and HW30 and centered the screen no problem with the joystick in the front for lens shift.

I hope the 7000 continues this since the chassis looks identical from the photos I saw of the 7000. I hope they are smart and price it under 3k street, the pricing of the Epson 5010 is better than I expected, but they probably had to do this to compete with the RS45 pricing.

if the price is right, this could be a good dedicated 3D projector. RS50 for dark movies, HW30 for everything else, 7000 for 3D.
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post #36 of 499 Old 11-12-2011, 07:58 AM
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Only three projectors? Isn't that a rather conservative number for you even not counting the HMZ-T1?
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post #37 of 499 Old 11-14-2011, 11:35 AM
 
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http://www.perfectimage.gr/wp-conten...102811.pdf.pdf

Looking at this spec sheet, looks like we've got:

2000AL from 2500AL
Contrast is the same at 50K:1
Throw/zoom ratio is the same
Lamp is 300w from 280w
120Hz
HDMI 1.4 & 3D compatability
Frame Interpolation
33/28dBA from 32/29dBA (1dB louder in high lamp, 1dB quieter in low lamp)

I'm also seeing 2D/3D conversion and color wheel speed 4x & 6x (the W6000 was 4x I believe).

Going from one of the two glasses parts numbers (5J.J0T14.011, this one is also an accessory to the BenQ MX501):



The spec sheet above shows a black W7000.

Also, BenQ W703D (720p 3D): http://www.intelware.fr/catalog/pdf/9H.J6677.27E.pdf
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post #38 of 499 Old 11-14-2011, 07:58 PM
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Man, this one has promise. Looks like the lens shift range and FI might be new or improved from the brochure. Heck, if all it had was 3D and better color wheel for $2K I'd cancel my RS45 pre-order. Home theater build will be finished next week, we'll see how long I can wait (would anyone be willing to loan me one of their spares for a few months?
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post #39 of 499 Old 11-14-2011, 09:14 PM
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The loss of light going from short throw to long throw and the loss of on off going from long throw to short will be small because the effective f stop of lines goes from short F 2.48 (the smaller the F number, the faster or more light the lens can transmit to long F 2.81. The vertical lens shift is somewhat confusing being listed as 125%. This would imply that you can shift as high as 25% above the top of the screen. The off set chart in the specs however uses 0.125 above the top of the screen as the maximum shift. Assuming the chart is correct, the lens shift would actually be 112.5% maximum above starting at screen botton, or 112.5% below starting at screen top. This means the farthers above or below the screen top or bottom edges is 122.5% and counting both I guess thats how they get 125% but you can't really spec it that way.
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post #40 of 499 Old 11-14-2011, 11:34 PM
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They're giving the entire shift range rather than just one direction. From the center of the screen it can shift up 62.5% or down 62.5% (12.5% below the screen to 12.5% above the screen), added together it's 125%.

Of course, the spec sheet says +/- 125% so... somebody goofed.

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post #41 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 02:37 AM
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Sounds like exactly the same lens-shift arrangement as the Benq w6000, which is a good thing for most people.

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post #42 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstabb View Post

They're giving the entire shift range rather than just one direction. From the center of the screen it can shift up 62.5% or down 62.5% (12.5% below the screen to 12.5% above the screen), added together it's 125%.

Of course, the spec sheet says +/- 125% so... somebody goofed.

Chart and numbers are counterintuitive, it looks like from the chart that this pj can be mounted slightly outside the projected image...do we think this is nit the case? I was thinking the brochure said "increased lens shift" or something to the effect... I'm still setting up my HT room and I'm trying to place the screen optimally for as many pjs as possible as I haven't made a decision on which one yet.
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post #43 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Sounds like exactly the same lens-shift arrangement as the Benq w6000, which is a good thing for most people.

if the price is right, this could be a hit with HP owners or those who desire a shelf mount. the ANSI and ON/OFF can't be any worse than what Petri posted on the 7800. hopefully that's an error of some kind, those numbers are pretty low.

The W6000 and SP890 we have at work are surprisingly sharp edge to edge considering the lens doesn't look like anything special.. kind of cheap actually.

I believe Mike @ AVS mentioned they might have the official specs and pricing this week.
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post #44 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 05:54 AM
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The chart shows the same thing as the w6000 manual's chart, some of the same descriptive confusion exists in the w6000 manual as well.

So I am going to assume the chart is what is right, so the max above/below the screen you can mount the projector is about 6.3 inches above or below (16cm according to the chart) for a 100" 16:9 diagonal, and anywhere in between those two points, with the center of the screen being the zero offset start.

I believe the same descriptive mistake exists in the Benq w6000 manual, so the entire range is 12.5% of the 16:9 diagonal (6.25% up or 6.25% down of diagonal), or 25% of the screen height (12.5% above or 12.5% down of screen height). You could also say 125% of screen height, since you are referring to the entire range, but it's essentially the same thing as long as you note that the Zero Offset position is set to center-point of screen. This reminds me that I need to fix my own descriptive confusion in my calculator of the offsets (for next version anyhow).

This would also concur with some of the reviews I have read on the Benq w6000's lens shift. Art @ pjreviews.com also noted he could pretty much put the projector anywhere between the screen, but not too far above or below it (which seems to concur that you can mount at center-point but overall only get a few inches of the lens being above or below the screen). Not as good for a ceiling mounting position (high ceilings will need longer drop poles), but great for shelf mounters.

I believe the reason for the confusion and mistakes in the manual are as follows:
It's mainly because when we are dealing with center-based offsets, if you say 12.5% above the screen, they often mean 6.25% either way because they are starting from the center, and the center is only half the overall screen height distance. To make things more confusing, they sometimes go back and forth talking about % of screen height or % of diagonal. It would be much easier if they would stick to one formula throughout the same manual.

It's really quite a simple concept, but somehow these manuals always manage to make it confusing. Never ceases to amaze me how a simple concept can be made so confusing.

Also, I read on one site (not sure which) a while back that the reason these DLP's don't have much lens shift has to do with the way some of the assembly is in the way and restricting them in the design. The Benq w6000/w7000 seem to be the rare exceptions here (and having a center-based offset helps more), although I'm not sure how much lens shift some of the super expensive DLP's have.

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post #45 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 06:37 AM
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One thing to keep in mind (which the manual covers) is if you use any Horizontal shift the Vertical gets reduced... rather quickly.

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post #46 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 07:04 AM
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I think a universal spec should be used. Shifting from screen center to above (+) and below (-) stating as a percentage of total screen height. Thus, + or - 62.5% of H. There is normally not a reason to use horizontal lens shift except for maybe a click or two. There are inexpensive accessory lateral shift brackets for your projector mount which can be used rather than horizontal lens shift to fix your imprecise horizontal mounting and use no clicks.

Notice throw range for those not familar with the 6000. 1.63 to 2.43.
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post #47 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 08:02 AM
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I've been using the BenQ 8720 for the past few years and it's still has a great picture but I would love to go 1080P and 3D. My current room is 18' X 13.5', projecting longways to a 106'' 16:9 screen. The throw on the W7000 1.62, screen 92'' wide would put my minimum throw at a little under 12.5' add in the foot for the back of the projector to the lens and If I find some flat hdmi cables I might just be able to rotate my room and throw twords 13.5' then I could get more furniture. Or would this be a really stupid idea and I should just keep throwing the 18'.
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post #48 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 08:24 AM
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Either way might work, kind of hard to say when you use words like "furniture" as we do not have a good picture of your room.

I would mount it where is closer to closest throw, since that will give you more brightness for 3d, but ultimately it probably doesn't matter that much other than the brightness factor.

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post #49 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 08:50 AM
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It's an akward room. The door leading to the garage is right next to the screen. So 13.5' of wall width I have just enough room to put two front speakers the screen and a door. The screen currently has to be pushed over uncentered left of the wall. I only have enough width for two rocker recliners and a table. I used to have a couch on the far right wall but we got tired of walking around the thing and moving chairs and tables so got rid of it. If I turn the room around facing the 13.5' throw I would have 18' of wall width then people coming in from the garage would only have to walk infront of the screen to get through and I could put more furniture side by side.
I guess what I'm trying to ask, Is 13.5' from a 106 inch screen too large and close? And is my throw calculations 92" wide 1.62 zoom plus projector depth correct? I could buy a smaller screen but I don't wanna.
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post #50 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

There is normally not a reason to use horizontal lens shift except for maybe a click or two. There are inexpensive accessory lateral shift brackets for your projector mount which can be used rather than horizontal lens shift to fix your imprecise horizontal mounting and use no clicks.

Not all rooms are normal and that is why they make lens shift. A click or two will never cover it in my basement due to a support beam. As a matter of fact I am very close to max horizontal lens shift on my rear shelf mounted 8350. Yes I could modify some things but throwing the PJ on a shelf in the back is the exact reason for lens shift rather than putting the screen where I do not want it or having the PJ dangle right above my head. Admittedly I still have a lot to learn about FP, but I at least nailed it with the 8350 and it is more than a "click" or two in my application. In my case lateral shift brackets or such devices would not help at all. I am more than capable of installing a mount exactly where it needs to go BTW, it is just that I do not want it there, right now anyway.
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post #51 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 09:03 PM
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Mike. I said normally. and a room that is not normal doesn't fall into the normal classification. My room is normal, yours isn't. BTW. You and I are not normal.
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post #52 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 09:09 PM
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is the AVS crew expecting the specs and pricing this week?

send me one for a demo, and I'll sell dozens of them to the HP owners who has been waiting for a 1080P 3D DLP with HP friendly lens shift.
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post #53 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 09:26 PM
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Should get the info this week. You owe me an email with the Sony lamp pricing. Thanks
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post #54 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Should get the info this week. You owe me an email with the Sony lamp pricing. Thanks

Zombie, don't give it by email...MAKE HIM CALL YOU!
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post #55 of 499 Old 11-15-2011, 09:48 PM
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W7K is still not up on the BenQ.us site. Did we ever figure out if the W6000 was DC2+ or DC3? (companies are never forthcoming with that info) Just wondering if there'll be any upgrade there...if not, BenQ's R&D guys should have to be doing community service or something as this will be the 3rd WX000 model to have the same old chipset...maybe they'll put a more aggressive iris selector on it or something, for movies like The Road. Just hoping for some kind of upgrade beside 3D as I won't use it much.
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post #56 of 499 Old 11-16-2011, 02:24 AM
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The Benq w6000 is Dark Chip 2. DC 2 vs. DC 3 isn't the big factor here though. Some DC 3 projectors lose in contrast to some DC 2 projectors (like my Viewsonic, it doesn't have the black levels of some DC 2 projectors even though it is DC 3, although the VS does beat most projectors for its price level, but it has some issues). I think DC 3 has less of that DLP crawling mosquito noise (not like it's very noticeable anyhow), but not necessarily less image noise itself, at least that's my theory. I also think the color vividness is very very slightly better on DC 3, but who knows on that one.

Nearly every other projector under $2000 is also Dark Chip 2, with a few exceptions:

The Mitsubishi hc4000 is Dark Chip3.
The Viewsonic Pro 8200 is Dark Chip3.
Optoma hd66 720p is DC 3
(and some other 720p Optomas I'm guessing)
I'm sure there are a few more I am not thinking of

Here are some DC 2 projectors:
Optoma hd33/hd3300
Optoma HD20
Mitsubishi hc3800
Benq w1100/w1200/w6000

Nearly all others under $2k are DC 2, but I'm sure there are a few more DC 3 I don't know about...

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post #57 of 499 Old 11-16-2011, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The Benq w6000 is Dark Chip 2. DC 2 vs. DC 3 isn't the big factor here though. Some DC 3 projectors lose in contrast to some DC 2 projectors (like my Viewsonic, it doesn't have the black levels of some DC 2 projectors even though it is DC 3, although the VS does beat most projectors for its price level, but it has some issues). I think DC 3 has less of that DLP crawling mosquito noise (not like it's very noticeable anyhow), but not necessarily less image noise itself, at least that's my theory. I also think the color vividness is very very slightly better on DC 3, but who knows on that one.

Nearly every other projector under $2000 is also Dark Chip 2, with a few exceptions:

The Mitsubishi hc4000 is Dark Chip3.
The Viewsonic Pro 8200 is Dark Chip3.
Optoma hd66 720p is DC 3
(and some other 720p Optomas I'm guessing)
I'm sure there are a few more I am not thinking of

Here are some DC 2 projectors:
Optoma hd33/hd3300
Optoma HD20
Mitsubishi hc3800
Benq w1100/w1200/w6000

Nearly all others under $2k are DC 2, but I'm sure there are a few more DC 3 I don't know about...

Yeah, but the BenQ retailed for $4999 when it came out...would've thought they could've sprung for the newer chipset with that much dough. I know it doesn't really matter, but if you start out with a little better native contrast, seems like you would need less iris action, though I just read a review of the Digital Projection M-Vision Cine 230 and that one is $7K and has DC4 and only claims 3000:1 so...I guess all's fair.
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post #58 of 499 Old 11-16-2011, 05:53 AM
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Damn, this unit might be the ticket for the HP users! If I am reading this right, I could mount this projector as far back as ~17' for a 96" diag 1.78 image......is this right? Still trying to figure out the lens shift range.......
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post #59 of 499 Old 11-16-2011, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I think a universal spec should be used. Shifting from screen center to above (+) and below (-) stating as a percentage of total screen height. Thus, + or - 62.5% of H. There is normally not a reason to use horizontal lens shift except for maybe a click or two. There are inexpensive accessory lateral shift brackets for your projector mount which can be used rather than horizontal lens shift to fix your imprecise horizontal mounting and use no clicks.

Notice throw range for those not familar with the 6000. 1.63 to 2.43.

Man, this is great news! Now all that is left is the price..........
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post #60 of 499 Old 11-16-2011, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

Yeah, but the BenQ retailed for $4999 when it came out...would've thought they could've sprung for the newer chipset with that much dough. I know it doesn't really matter, but if you start out with a little better native contrast, seems like you would need less iris action, though I just read a review of the Digital Projection M-Vision Cine 230 and that one is $7K and has DC4 and only claims 3000:1 so...I guess all's fair.

It is odd how some cheapo projectors like the Viewsonic Pro8200 managed to get Dark Chip 3, then you have the Optoma hd33 with DC 2.

My best guess is that it has to do with a decision by a financial guy or a manager that is trying to squeeze the margins. Maybe the different manufacturers are trying to get different profit margins out of different units. Since the net profit margins are fairly low for the MFR's in a lot of this stuff, let's say even a $50 difference in the chip could be huge to some of them.

I am just guessing here, not sure really why.

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