JVC DLA-RS48 / DLA X55 projector with 3D RF glasses and E-shift CEDIA 2012 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 797 Old 08-14-2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Designing and switching to a new ground up chasis is very expensive. I've heard the costs of a chasis switch would be near one half million from another projector manufacturer. One would need a really good reason to eat this expense without having a real good reason. If the same chasis are used again and assuming cost recoupment over the two year chasis life, using its desgin for free in the third year could result in a MSRP lowering. There is intense price pressure from one manufacturer to another so if I were in charge, I might ask can we make it better on the same chasis and then can we price it cheaper because of the chasis cost savings?

Good points, however I think staying with the same basic design and adding a few tweaks, will yeild minor improvements as the new specs so far seem to indicate.

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post #32 of 797 Old 08-15-2012, 01:13 PM
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JVC had good reason for changing to the current chassis - it allowed removing an element (a folding mirror IIRC) from the optical path, reducing reflection loss, light scatter, and parts count.

No reason to change it again unless there's a similar significant design change in the optical engine

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post #33 of 797 Old 08-15-2012, 02:40 PM
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IIRC the RS20 featured a major design change (over the RS-2) to eliminate a angled (folding) mirror from the optical path (w/ all the benefits you mentioned). The change required moving the video connections to the side as well as off-setting the previously center mounted zoom lens. Then 2 years later (RS-50) and the video connections are moved back to the back and the zoom lens is once again centered. I wonder if they put that mirror back in?
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post #34 of 797 Old 08-16-2012, 05:55 AM
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I could be wrong, but I believe that change was in the generation after the RS20.

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post #35 of 797 Old 08-16-2012, 09:55 AM
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Part of the reason I bought my RS20 (I attended CEDIA that year) was for this specific optical path improvement. But I wasn't happy about the non-centered lens or side connections. Which carried over to the RS 25/35.
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post #36 of 797 Old 08-18-2012, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Could someone translate the material linked and relink it in English? My Greek is weak (I know it isn't Greek but it might as well be!)

Online translators sometimes warp meanings. Here's the gist:

There are 4 new models: DLA-X35, DLA-X55, DLA-X75 et DLA-X95.
The DLA-X55 is new and fills the hole between the previous X30 at 2999€ and the X70 at 6999€ from last year.

First whispers/rumours talk about an increase of contrast ratio from 50 to 60,000:1 for the low end model (I'm assuming X35) and 80 to 100,000:1 for the higher models (I'm assuming X75 - the X95 will go higher I assume as the X90 was 120,000:1)

Slightly higher light output is also rumoured. 3D system is switching from IR to RF. JVC hopes for better 3D with a minimum of defects.

E-shift will be available from the X55 model upwards. (So now there are 3 models with e-shift instead of 2).

Not yet confirmed but pricing is expected at 2999, 4999, 6999 et 9999€. Should be available in November.

Most of the content on the French page is a rehash of what e-shift is.

Probably the most interesting thing to note here is that it's possible that people will be able to get into X70 type performance as far as e-shift and contrast ratio is concerned in the new X55 model. Should save some people some money. The X70 had an MSRP of $7995 USD. The new X55 is rumoured to be 4999€ which is around $6165 USD. Time will tell.


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post #37 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 04:53 AM
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FWIW, here is my recollection:

The JVC models before the RS20 generation suffered from bright corners. It was said that one reason for this issue was the lightpath. The RS1s/RS2s had the lamp placed on the side of the unit and a mirror was necessary to bend the light at a right angle so that it could fire down the lightpath into the light engine and out the lens. This mirror caused light scatter and caused bright corners.The RS20/RS25 generation had the lamp mounted at the back of the PJ. It was a straight shoot from the back to the light engine and out the lens. As a result, the bright corners issues was conquered (among other things).

But, there were a lot of complaints about the RS20 design. The lens was off center and that made mounting a little bit more difficult and there were some complaints about how it looked. Inputs were on teh side, not back. Custom installers did not like the design. So, JVC went with form over function and reverted to a side mounted lamp that required the mirror. The bright corners returned in varying degrees.

There are likely other engineering issues involved in these design decisions. It is also likely that I am completely wrong. But, this is how I remember it. For that reason, I always thought that the RS20 design was the best. I have heard some people convincingly argue that the RS35 is the best projector JVC ever made (including current models). If your priority is like mine, good old fashioned picture quality, without things like FI and eshift and with things like a CMS that actually works, it is a pretty good case to make.

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post #38 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 11:52 AM
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I think you pretty much nailed it. And it makes me re-think switching out my RS-20 for a newer model. The one thing I liked most about my RS-20 when new (replacing RS-1) was total lack of bright corners. I'll take off-centered lens and side connections any day to bright corners! Maybe I should either have my RS-20 repaired (has light yellow shading on extreme left side of image) or search for a RS-35.
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post #39 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I think you pretty much nailed it. And it makes me re-think switching out my RS-20 for a newer model. The one thing I liked most about my RS-20 when new (replacing RS-1) was total lack of bright corners. I'll take off-centered lens and side connections any day to bright corners! Maybe I should either have my RS-20 repaired (has light yellow shading on extreme left side of image) or search for a RS-35.

I doubt that you would want to pay the cost for the repair of the RS20. The lens improvement (sharpness) on the new projectors is something to consider also.
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post #40 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I think you pretty much nailed it. And it makes me re-think switching out my RS-20 for a newer model. The one thing I liked most about my RS-20 when new (replacing RS-1) was total lack of bright corners. I'll take off-centered lens and side connections any day to bright corners! Maybe I should either have my RS-20 repaired (has light yellow shading on extreme left side of image) or search for a RS-35.

I wouldn't repair my RS20 if it died. I also would not buy an out of warranty RS30 or RS35 (maybe if it was really cheap?!).

I owned a RS50 for a short time. I felt it was a case of one step forward and maybe one step back.

I used to upgrade almost every year but now I am scared to. I'll wait for JVC contrast and price with true 4k. Hopefully my RS20 lets me wait.

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post #41 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I think you pretty much nailed it. And it makes me re-think switching out my RS-20 for a newer model. The one thing I liked most about my RS-20 when new (replacing RS-1) was total lack of bright corners. I'll take off-centered lens and side connections any day to bright corners! Maybe I should either have my RS-20 repaired (has light yellow shading on extreme left side of image) or search for a RS-35.

You could have a RS35 light engine installed in the RS20, I was lucky enough to score one cost free for my HD750/RS20, but I read UMR(Jeff M) had the upgrade LE installed.

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post #42 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I doubt that you would want to pay the cost for the repair of the RS20. The lens improvement (sharpness) on the new projectors is something to consider also.

Correct. Reason I haven't had it repaired (2K+ for new optical block). Waiting to see what shakes out at CEDIA. Are light corners really a problem (from your perspective) w/ newer models? Don't read about many complaints vs. RS1/RS2 days.
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post #43 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 01:41 PM
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Highjinx,
RS35 Light?
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post #44 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 01:54 PM
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I still enjoy my RS20 but it has exactly the same problem, a yellow band on the extreme right. Seems like a number of folks with ageing RS projectors are getting this problem (out of warranty so expensive to fix!), so I wonder if the newer models have fixed this issue? I won't buy another JVC projector if this is the case, and it sounds like the panels are the same design in the new models so it may still crop up later in the projector's life if I buy a new JVC. I expect a consumer device with 3 years of light use (about 1500 hours) to not develop faults.
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post #45 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 02:06 PM
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Highjinx,
RS35 Light?

The RS35 light engine is fitted to the RS20.

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post #46 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

You could have a RS35 light engine installed in the RS20, I was lucky enough to score one cost free for my HD750/RS20, but I read UMR(Jeff M) had the upgrade LE installed.

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post #47 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 02:58 PM
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Is this cheaper than getting the JVC serviced to fix the banding problem?
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post #48 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 03:13 PM
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Is this cheaper than getting the JVC serviced to fix the banding problem?

Possibly more, with the repair, the light engine is replaced, I score a free one as my unit was within warranty and at the time that was the one(only) available. You will be looking around $5-6K, now(2012) perhaps less?. I think.

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post #49 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 03:21 PM
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New RS35's are still available around the internet for 6-7K. But buyer beware. I only feel comfortable buying from AVS.
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post #50 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

... Are light corners really a problem (from your perspective) w/ newer models?...

I had an RS2 clone (Pioneer FPJ1) and it did not have bright corners at all but my RS45 has slightly bright corners. It's really only noticeable on an all black screen and while I disliked it at first I rarely notice it now. Sharpness is much better on my RS45 than the RS2 that I had and with the iris closed all the way down the black levels are pretty much the same.

I really wish there were some improvements in black levels but it seems like we've reached a point now that this is pretty much forgotten.
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post #51 of 797 Old 08-19-2012, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Correct. Reason I haven't had it repaired (2K+ for new optical block). Waiting to see what shakes out at CEDIA. Are light corners really a problem (from your perspective) w/ newer models? Don't read about many complaints vs. RS1/RS2 days.

The RS45's are not perfect with respect to bright corners, but they are pretty good and represent a good value, cost vs performance. On my screen I do not see bright corners. If I do the paper test, I can tell a difference, but one that does not show on the screen.
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post #52 of 797 Old 08-22-2012, 12:41 PM
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Here I am thinking that either JVC or Sony will blow the doors of the CEDIA convention with spectacular 3D improvements, especially JVC seeing how they were left in the dust with their 3D realm competitors last year. I went from watching 40% 3D (with less content in 2010/2011) versus 60% 2D on my RS40 in 2010/2011 to hardly watching any 3D blu-rays on the X30/RS45 because of how noticeable the ghosting has become, call it a honey moon period with the RS40 that did not extend through the RS45, or maybe the additional lumens making bright scenes in 3D more ghost-ridden, I simply am no longer as excited as I used to be when I first used my RS40 in Dec 20110 through 2011. But at the same time I don't want to have an inferior 2D experience with the Pannys, Epsons, and possibly Sony's just so I can watch 3D content that barelt represents 10% of my BD library. Still, I was hoping a a knockout punch, a homerun, with the 2013 JVC RS/X projectors. It seems like they are still building upon the RS40/50 from prior 2010, minus the e-Shift which was the only main and obvious improvement last year. Still no true 4K, no proven improvements in 3D (less ghosting), just the same old crap from 2 years ago.

The good news is that if things remain the same, based on what I am hearing, and there is nothing new or ground breaking with 3D performance, then I will keep my RS45 for another year, and if by Fall 2013, JVC is still lagging with 3D and I am not hearing rave reviews by then, I will definitely start looking at the Panny's, Sony's, and other LCD/LCOS based 3D projectors. I refuse to have two projectors, I worked too hard to make my home theater look as pleasing as possible aesthetically, and I am not going to build a box to conceal a 2nd projector just for 3D, or have another projector mounted down fromt he ceiling. I will just wait on the next best 2D/3D projector next year.
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post #53 of 797 Old 08-22-2012, 05:40 PM
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Improvements from jvc for 3d is welcome but the more I think about it the more I say to myself that 3d is just a fad and will go away. So really IMO 2d is most important and that is why a jvc projector looks to be in my future. smile.gif
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post #54 of 797 Old 08-23-2012, 01:42 PM
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Maybe the active shutter versus passive 3D delivery methods maybe a fad, but the content will be here for many years to come. Hollywood has finally found a loophope in getting folks to go back to movie theaters and it's 3D on the big IMAX screens which can never be replicated at home (unless you have a 50 foot tall IMAX screen in your home, haha. Point is, 3D content is not a fad, the way we get it at home via active/passive technology is the real fad. Hollywood has been dishing out real 3D movies for over 5 years (not counting IMAX documentaries which had been around for over 10-15 years). And the trend now is no longer limited to animated movies, just about any action movie released in the past 2 years has had a 3D concurrent release and a 3D home video release on BD. I really do hope, that glasses or no glasses, we finally get a really good 3D experience, without having to have a 2nd DLP-based projector to enjoy it.
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post #55 of 797 Old 08-23-2012, 02:40 PM
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Maybe the active shutter versus passive 3D delivery methods maybe a fad, but the content will be here for many years to come. Hollywood has finally found a loophope in getting folks to go back to movie theaters and it's 3D on the big IMAX screens which can never be replicated at home (unless you have a 50 foot tall IMAX screen in your home, haha. Point is, 3D content is not a fad, the way we get it at home via active/passive technology is the real fad. Hollywood has been dishing out real 3D movies for over 5 years (not counting IMAX documentaries which had been around for over 10-15 years). And the trend now is no longer limited to animated movies, just about any action movie released in the past 2 years has had a 3D concurrent release and a 3D home video release on BD. I really do hope, that glasses or no glasses, we finally get a really good 3D experience, without having to have a 2nd DLP-based projector to enjoy it.

I sold my RS55 in June for a good price so I can get in on the new JVC models. I got a Benq W7000 to pass the time and basically something for sports. I knew the 3D was good but after having two 3D JVC models, it wasn't that important to me. But man is 3D amazing on this projector. 2D isn't that bad either. With a JVC projector, I found myself falling to sleep about half the time. The W7000 is easy on the eyes and its actually like watching 2D. Wish I could have kept my RS55 but I will be getting the upgraded model in December. Only if you could do a 2 projector set up, you would be set. To be honest, I prefer my w7000 over my JVC projector. It's brighter, the best 3D, great motion, sports are excellent, no lamp issues, cheaper, handle lower sources better, HDTV is better, and animations are more vibrant. But when it comes to 2D blu ray movies, I would not want anything but a JVC
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post #56 of 797 Old 08-23-2012, 05:48 PM
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it
I sold my RS55 in June for a good price so I can get in on the new JVC models. I got a Benq W7000 to pass the time and basically something for sports. I knew the 3D was good but after having two 3D JVC models, it wasn't that important to me. But man is 3D amazing on this projector. 2D isn't that bad either. With a JVC projector, I found myself falling to sleep about half the time. The W7000 is easy on the eyes and its actually like watching 2D. Wish I could have kept my RS55 but I will be getting the upgraded model in December. Only if you could do a 2 projector set up, you would be set. To be honest, I prefer my w7000 over my JVC projector. It's brighter, the best 3D, great motion, sports are excellent, no lamp issues, cheaper, handle lower sources better, HDTV is better, and animations are more vibrant. But when it comes to 2D blu ray movies, I would not want anything but a JVC

I'm not sure what tricks JVC has up their sleeve this year, but it's highly unlikely they are going to be able to provide completely ghost free 3D with zero flicker. The flicker in 3D on most projectors is usually missed in the reviews. The W7000 is rock solid here.. the 3D is as easy on the eyes as watching 2D on other projectors.

Hopefully someone can bring a tough disk like Giants of Patagonia 3D to Cedia. It would take me exactly 30 seconds to know how much, if any they improved the 3D on the new models.

we have to help Sam find a way to hide a 3D DLP projector in his HT. I think he will go nuts if he saw the W7000's 3D in comparison to the RS45.
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post #57 of 797 Old 08-23-2012, 06:42 PM
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I'm not sure what tricks JVC has up their sleeve this year, but it's highly unlikely they are going to be able to provide completely ghost free 3D with zero flicker. The flicker in 3D on most projectors is usually missed in the reviews. The W7000 is rock solid here.. the 3D is as easy on the eyes as watching 2D on other projectors.
Hopefully someone can bring a tough disk like Giants of Patagonia 3D to Cedia. It would take me exactly 30 seconds to know how much, if any they improved the 3D on the new models.
we have to help Sam find a way to hide a 3D DLP projector in his HT. I think he will go nuts if he saw the W7000's 3D in comparison to the RS45.

Thanks to you Jason, I am a huge fan of this W7000, u basically put it in my lap. I have no doubt in my mind that the next JVC models will have 3D problems. Good thing for me is that I only need it for 2D. I'm sure many previous owners will jump ship
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post #58 of 797 Old 08-24-2012, 09:02 PM
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I'm most interested in the RS45 replacement if it's worth it. If 3D isn't a great improvement then I just might have to check out the W7000 replacement. I'm still very pleased with the 2D image on the JVC so likely unless there's a nice improvement there I'm not expecting much in that regard. However, there's a bit of room for improvement in 3D. If another new model isn't equivalent (or very close) to the JVC in 2D and has much better 3D then maybe I'll just add the W7000 successor as a 3D only projector. When did the W7000 come out last year?
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post #59 of 797 Old 08-25-2012, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I'm most interested in the RS45 replacement if it's worth it. If 3D isn't a great improvement then I just might have to check out the W7000 replacement. I'm still very pleased with the 2D image on the JVC so likely unless there's a nice improvement there I'm not expecting much in that regard. However, there's a bit of room for improvement in 3D. If another new model isn't equivalent (or very close) to the JVC in 2D and has much better 3D then maybe I'll just add the W7000 successor as a 3D only projector. When did the W7000 come out last year?

It started shipping in January I believe, but due to many problems with software, most people waited later to purchase it.
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post #60 of 797 Old 08-26-2012, 01:47 PM
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