Thinking of a Runco Q-750i - Looking for advice - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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If the cost of the Sony is not an issue, and you are interested in LED, you might want to take a look at the sim2 M150, which is just a bit more expensive than the Sony.. I don't know if 3D is a factor, but a couple of advantages of the M150 compared to the Q-750 is the M150 does 3D, and has a higher lumen output.
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post #32 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 07:56 AM
 
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I thought the M.150 was going for $27K? That makes it quite a large jump over the Sony.
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post #33 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought the msrp on the sony is $25K.
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post #34 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 11:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by irjs View Post

I thought the msrp on the sony is $25K.

It is but street is much much lower. Almost $10K. If you check ebay there are some going as low as $17.5K new. Considering the M.150 is brand new I doubt you'll see them streeting near that price point.
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post #35 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Keep in mind, LED projection will be short lived.....................and from what I've heard from those in the know concerning LED TV's, the bulbs are being pushed and have shown considerable dimming over time. Don't know if this is true about led projectors, but makes sense that the same holds true too.

FWIW I have a Vango LED projector. No light loss after 650 hours.

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post #36 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 03:38 PM
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FWIW i have a Runco Q-750D LED projector. No light loss after an estimated 3.600 hours of use in one year....

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post #37 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

FWIW i have a Runco Q-750D LED projector. No light loss after an estimated 3.600 hours of use in one year....

Looks like you've made an edit to your post...

 

But the answer to your question is that the SIM2 M.150 is using a liquid cooled light engine sourced from Chi Lin.  The LED's are the same as used in the Runco Q-750 and others that are based on the Delta light engine.  The difference is that the LED's in the Chi Lin engine can be driven harder for more lumen output because of the liquid cooled engine.  The Delta engine based projectors are air cooled with the air cooling not being as efficient.

 

Projectors using the liquid cooled Chi Lin engine are:

  • SIM2 MICO series
  • TruVue VANGO
  • Wolf Cinema DCL-200FD 
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post #38 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Looks like you've made an edit to your post...

But the answer to your question is that the SIM2 M.150 is using a liquid cooled light engine sourced from Chi Lin.  The LED's are the same as used in the Runco Q-750 and others that are based on the Delta light engine.  The difference is that the LED's in the Chi Lin engine can be driven harder for more lumen output because of the liquid cooled engine.  The Delta engine based projectors are air cooled with the air cooling not being as efficient.

Projectors using the liquid cooled Chi Lin engine are:
  • SIM2 MICO series
  • TruVue VANGO
  • Wolf Cinema DCL-200FD 

I made an edit to my post because i wanted to confirm by reliable reviews the lumen output of the air-cooled Runco/Vivitek/Digital Projection LED projection clones versus the same spec for the water-cooled TrueVue Vango.
Looking at the thread for the Vango, Tom Huffman stated that "to get a D65 image with flat gamma response and correct Rec. 709 color gamut you are looking at 400 lumen +/- 10% maximum", which is about the same lumen output as the three air-cooled clones.
As for the SIM M.150, i found a review comparing its lumen output versus the first generation M.50 and the reviewer stated that it was noticeably brighter but at a cost of running very hot to the point of adding 1 to 2 degrees to room temperature ( !!!), a rather noisy water-cooling system and a power usage approaching 400 watts.
I still don't understand how SIM engineers were able to claim an increase in lumen output from 600 to 1.000 for its current generation of LED projectors when they use the exact same LED light source as used by all other top-of-the-line LED projectors, namely the PT-120 R/G/B LED chipset from Luminus Devices.
One of the "reviews" i found online even claimed that the secret lies in its use of another LED chipset from Luminus Devices that has secondary colors, a C/Y/M LED chipset, which as far as i know does not exist, and another "review" claims there are two (2) sets of the PT-120 LED chipset used in the M.150, although i don't understand how that could be possible considering that the physical size of these chipsets is spec'd to fit similar size and configuration for the microdisplay used in the projector, DMD, LCOS or LCD.

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post #39 of 95 Old 10-07-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post


I made an edit to my post because i wanted to confirm by reliable reviews the lumen output of the air-cooled Runco/Vivitek/Digital Projection LED projection clones versus the same spec for the water-cooled TrueVue Vango.
Looking at the thread for the Vango, Tom Huffman stated that "to get a D65 image with flat gamma response and correct Rec. 709 color gamut you are looking at 400 lumen +/- 10% maximum", which is about the same lumen output as the three water-cooled clones.
As for the SIM M.150, i found a review comparing its lumen output versus the first generation M.50 and the reviewer stated that it was noticeably brighter but at a cost of running very hot to the point of adding 1 to 2 degrees to room temperature ( !!!), a rather noisy water-cooling system and a power usage approaching 400 watts.
I still don't understand how SIM engineers were able to claim an increase in lumen output from 600 to 1.000 for its current generation of LED projectors when they use the exact same LED light source as used by all other top-of-the-line LED projectors, namely the PT-120 R/G/B LED chipset from Luminus Devices.
One of the "reviews" i found online even claimed that the secret lies in its use of another LED chipset from Luminus Devices that has secondary colors, a C/Y/M LED chipset, which as far as i know does not exist, and another "review" claims there are two (2) sets of the PT-120 LED chipset used in the M.150, although i don't understand how that could be possible considering that the physical size of these chipsets is spec'd to fit similar size and configuration for the microdisplay used in the projector, DMD, LCOS or LCD.

 

 

Its been a while back, but if you do a search for the Wolf Cinema DCL-200FD here, one of the guys from Wolf talks about a running update to the PT-120 chips and that they were able to drive them to 1000 lumen in the "overlap" display mode because of the water cooling.  Something about 20-30% more output.

 

At CEDIA this year people from both Wolf and SIM2 told me the same story.  That is, with water cooling the Luminus PT-120 could be driven harder and that in the "overlap" mode, which seems to be unique to the Chi Lin engine, 1000 lumen's was possible.  TruVue VANGO also claims 1000 lumen's: http://www.entexpinc.com/truvue/truvue.htm

 

It's interesting that SIM2 doesn't make this claim for the MICO 50.  There is another company that is offering an OEM version that looks like a twin of the VANGO.  They also clam 1000 lumen's.

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post #40 of 95 Old 10-08-2012, 05:43 AM
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This is exactly what I am curious about: how much difference in light output is there between the Mico 50 and the M150. The M150 was very impressive at CEDIA and if you essentially get the same light output from the Mico 50 or the Vango but no 3D then that could be interesting.

As MCaugusto said, its the same Luminus chipset, same 'Overlap' mode, how much difference can there be?

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post #41 of 95 Old 10-08-2012, 06:45 AM
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Well, if all these water cooled LED projectors sourced from Chillin Technology are still using the same light engine configuration and are rated from 600 lumen (Chillin and Sim M.50), 750 lumen (Wolf) to 1.000 lumen ( Vango and Wolf later production run, according to manufacturer), then why after calibration the Vango put out anywhere from 400 to 500 lumen according to AVS testing and reports from owners and reviewers ?
Has Chillin Technology upgraded the design of its OEM LED projector that's been out for the past two years or have manufacturers such as SIM and Wolf upgraded the design on their own after a couple of years of in-field testing and lab experimentation ?
And, as pointed out in another thread, how would that affect the longevity and stability of the LED chipset running at such constant high temperature ?
I just checked the Vango website and it's mentioned that the extra LED brightness is achieved by means of "in-frame white" insertion which i imagine means that the R/G/B LED chips flash normally according to sourced image BUT also flash full white frames every 60th of a second by using all three chips in unison to increase brightness ?

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post #42 of 95 Old 10-10-2012, 02:29 PM
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I can tell you I get about 434 lumes calibrated at D65 with my Runco Q750i. I can also say that yes the Mico -50/60 is brighter in overlap, but not accurate in overlap for colors.I messaured between 425 and 475 lumens for a Mico 50 calibrated at 65 and that depended on zoom, shift and a few other thigns. I have not seen the M150, but even the Wolf thread talked about using overlap and having to use a VP to correct for the color errors. The other issue is the sound, as stated before, the M150 sounds like a jet engne as told by almost everyone that sees and hears this projector. Technically you could crack the firmware and rewrite it t push more voltage to the PT-120 chipset, but that presents its own issues. Right now the best answer for more light is the Runco D-73D. This is a true two chipset projector and a ton of time was spent on the VP to allow all kinds of crazies to happen including 2D to 3D conversion and adjustments for the dual stack to be crystal clear.

Current I know of two D-73Ds for sale one at $33K and one at $25K. Also, about 6 or 8 weeks ago one sold on Ebay for 20K with dual anamorphic lens!

For the next real upgrade in performance from LED we will all probably have to wait until a new stronger chipset is out. Hopefully this does not turn into the DLP upgrade that never was.

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post #43 of 95 Old 10-10-2012, 02:44 PM
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Yeah, I did see those D73Ds... tempting but unfortunately I don't think I could persuade either my wife or my bank manager to let me get one of those. It is absolutely massive as well. When I saw the M150 at CEDIA I waited for the demo movie to end so I could try to hear the fan - it seemed quiet to me but it was quite high up in the room. JustMike also said he thought they had improved the fan noise since he demoed it.
Considering the brightness we are used to with the IN83, I think if I am going to upgrade its going to be more lumens, probably a 3chipper, rather than struggling to make slightly less work in our room. Either that or wait for an improved LED chipset which, as you said, may never turn up.
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post #44 of 95 Old 10-12-2012, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

I can tell you I get about 434 lumes calibrated at D65 with my Runco Q750i. I can also say that yes the Mico -50/60 is brighter in overlap, but not accurate in overlap for colors.I messaured between 425 and 475 lumens for a Mico 50 calibrated at 65 and that depended on zoom, shift and a few other thigns. I have not seen the M150, but even the Wolf thread talked about using overlap and having to use a VP to correct for the color errors. The other issue is the sound, as stated before, the M150 sounds like a jet engne as told by almost everyone that sees and hears this projector. Technically you could crack the firmware and rewrite it t push more voltage to the PT-120 chipset, but that presents its own issues. Right now the best answer for more light is the Runco D-73D. This is a true two chipset projector and a ton of time was spent on the VP to allow all kinds of crazies to happen including 2D to 3D conversion and adjustments for the dual stack to be crystal clear.
Current I know of two D-73Ds for sale one at $33K and one at $25K. Also, about 6 or 8 weeks ago one sold on Ebay for 20K with dual anamorphic lens!
For the next real upgrade in performance from LED we will all probably have to wait until a new stronger chipset is out. Hopefully this does not turn into the DLP upgrade that never was.

 

Wolf Cinema offers, as an option, their own VP for their DCL-200FD projector much the same as the TruVue offers their eeColor™Technology processor as an option for the VANGO.

 

The M.150 that was on display at CEDIA did not seem to have the "jet engine" sound. I would assume that the reported firmware change from SIM2 has cured this.

 

I too do not understand why the LED technology hasn't moved forward a little faster in regards to lumens. But they do make a beautiful picture on the right sized screen!

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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Wolf Cinema offers, as an option, their own VP for their DCL-200FD projector much the same as the TruVue offers their eeColor™Technology processor as an option for the VANGO.

The M.150 that was on display at CEDIA did not seem to have the "jet engine" sound. I would assume that the reported firmware change from SIM2 has cured this.

I too do not understand why the LED technology hasn't moved forward a little faster in regards to lumens. But they do make a beautiful picture on the right sized screen!

I think it has a lot to do with cooling and noise coming from the projector. Those LEDs get HOT. Much hotter than traditional lamps. Which is why these companes are opting for liquid cooling. Not only is it more efficient but it is also quieter. Pushing the diodes further would require more heat dissipation and therefore make them louder than they already are. You've already heard people complain about noise with the M.150. It's brighter so its obviously louder.

There needs to be some kind of breakthrough with the diodes and how much heat they put out. Or make LED and Laser hybrids to try and compensate for lack of lumens produced.
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post #46 of 95 Old 10-13-2012, 10:45 AM
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I have the Vango. The exiting air hardly seems warm. Liquid cooled or not, the heat has to be dissipated to the outside of the case. I have no numbers but my D-ILA and LCD units seemed to dissipate considerably more heat. I would say that they produced slightly more lumens that the Vango though the subjective difference is marginal at best.

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post #47 of 95 Old 10-13-2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think it has a lot to do with cooling and noise coming from the projector. Those LEDs get HOT. Much hotter than traditional lamps. Which is why these companes are opting for liquid cooling. Not only is it more efficient but it is also quieter. Pushing the diodes further would require more heat dissipation and therefore make them louder than they already are. You've already heard people complain about noise with the M.150. It's brighter so its obviously louder.
There needs to be some kind of breakthrough with the diodes and how much heat they put out. Or make LED and Laser hybrids to try and compensate for lack of lumens produced.

I don't know where you're getting this info that "LEDs get much hotter than traditional lamps" but every review i read indicates that they run much/much cooler than UHP/xenon bulbs. These LED chipsets from Luminus Devices run hot for sure but nowhere near the temperature of these other bulbs which have been reported as causing an increase in room temperature (!). Every time i put my hands on the exhaust fan of my Runco Q-750D i am hard pressed to tell the difference between the fan intake temperature and the fan exhaust temperature.
I for one would like to see a comprehensive comparison of internal temperature of projectors using UHP/xenon bulbs versus LED chips and since your statement seem so conclusive, could you provide us with its source ?

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post #48 of 95 Old 10-13-2012, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post


I think it has a lot to do with cooling and noise coming from the projector. Those LEDs get HOT. Much hotter than traditional lamps. Which is why these companes are opting for liquid cooling. Not only is it more efficient but it is also quieter. Pushing the diodes further would require more heat dissipation and therefore make them louder than they already are. You've already heard people complain about noise with the M.150. It's brighter so its obviously louder.
There needs to be some kind of breakthrough with the diodes and how much heat they put out. Or make LED and Laser hybrids to try and compensate for lack of lumens produced.

 

 

Sorry, it's not obvious.

 

The M.150 I saw was very quiet.  Possibility the most quiet DLP projector I have seen and heard.  Have you actually seen one or are you just posting?

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post #49 of 95 Old 10-14-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post


I don't know where you're getting this info that "LEDs get much hotter than traditional lamps" but every review i read indicates that they run much/much cooler than UHP/xenon bulbs. These LED chipsets from Luminus Devices run hot for sure but nowhere near the temperature of these other bulbs which have been reported as causing an increase in room temperature (!). Every time i put my hands on the exhaust fan of my Runco Q-750D i am hard pressed to tell the difference between the fan intake temperature and the fan exhaust temperature.
I for one would like to see a comprehensive comparison of internal temperature of projectors using UHP/xenon bulbs versus LED chips and since your statement seem so conclusive, could you provide us with its source ?

I have to agree. The Q-750 is pretty quiet and the heat delta from intake to output is not much. I measured and posted this information last year. I cannot remember the exact number but something like 10-15 degrees F. One my theater is back together I will test again.

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post #50 of 95 Old 10-17-2012, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post


I don't know where you're getting this info that "LEDs get much hotter than traditional lamps" but every review i read indicates that they run much/much cooler than UHP/xenon bulbs. These LED chipsets from Luminus Devices run hot for sure but nowhere near the temperature of these other bulbs which have been reported as causing an increase in room temperature (!). Every time i put my hands on the exhaust fan of my Runco Q-750D i am hard pressed to tell the difference between the fan intake temperature and the fan exhaust temperature.
I for one would like to see a comprehensive comparison of internal temperature of projectors using UHP/xenon bulbs versus LED chips and since your statement seem so conclusive, could you provide us with its source ?

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Sorry, it's not obvious.

The M.150 I saw was very quiet.  Possibility the most quiet DLP projector I have seen and heard.  Have you actually seen one or are you just posting?

I'm not referring to heat output. I'm speaking about how much heat the diodes produce. The reason they use liquid cooling in them is because they get much much hotter than traditional lamps. I've demo'd one at a local home theater shop. I didn't have a chance to stick my head up to the Q750i. As far as loudness goes I'm going off of what people have posted in one of the M.150 threads. There was a post saying it was very loud.
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post #51 of 95 Old 10-17-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'm not referring to heat output. I'm speaking about how much heat the diodes produce. The reason they use liquid cooling in them is because they get much much hotter than traditional lamps. I've demo'd one at a local home theater shop. I didn't have a chance to stick my head up to the Q750i. As far as loudness goes I'm going off of what people have posted in one of the M.150 threads. There was a post saying it was very loud.[/quote
But you are again stating that "LED diodes get much hotter than traditional lamps" without any comparison to prove it !
And if you did not have a chance to stick your head up to the Q-750i to check on diode heat and exhaust fan temperature, did you manage to stick it up other projectors that use either LEDs or UHP/xenon bulbs and take some measurements of your own ?
There is a difference between making a statement with absolute certainty and guessing about something; On that same vein i am going to make the following statement : the Runco Q-750D is the best, most amazing front projector out there bar none, even better than the 4k Sony projector and i can state that simply based on my own observations, never mind test reports or owner comments; In the end, only MY opinion is the truth.
If only that could be so, my life would be so much easier...

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post #52 of 95 Old 10-17-2012, 06:02 PM
 
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Let's put it this way. Why would they opt for liquid cooling if it wasn't needed? You can cool a lamp efficiently with just fans and still get low db from the fans at moderate speed. If this was the case with LEDs why would they invest in R&D and the extra cost of a liquid cooling engine of it wasn't needed? Obviously they are hotter other wise they would just use fans. I realize that traditionally LEDs are known to produce less heat but I think some of these companies are pushing the current LED technologies so they are producing more heat then they would under less critical load.
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post #53 of 95 Old 10-17-2012, 08:29 PM
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The reason they use liquid cooling in them is because they get much much hotter than traditional lamps

What is your source for this information? From what I recall, LEDs are going to be in the same ball park as a projector lamp efficiency wise, so I don't see why they would generate more heat per lumen.

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post #54 of 95 Old 10-17-2012, 09:27 PM
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....Enough of this "malarky"...Going back to the OP question of recommendations/suggestions about purchasing a Runco Q-750i, i for one am curious if irjs decided for or against it and his reasoning.
So, how's the choice coming along, irjs ?
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post #55 of 95 Old 10-20-2012, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for asking MCaugusto. This thread did wander off in another direction. No I didn't pull the trigger yet. The key thing the 750 is lacking is 3D, and to a lesser extent the brightness, as I would like to get a 110 inch screen, which seems to be pushing the upper limits of screen size with this projector.. Although I look at 3D as just a fun novelty, the whole idea of putting a home theater in your basement is a fun novelty. Apart from that, I found the 750 to be just what I want in terms of picture quality, and low maintenance, i.e. not worrying about the dimming, and replacing of the bulb.

I started looking at SIM2 products as the M150 has everything I am looking for, but I can't justify paying that much more largely for 3D and some more lumens. I'm sure there are other things that make the 150 so much more expensive than the 750, and might be evident in side by side viewing, but the 750 quality for its current price works for me.

Now I will digress off my original post, and perhaps this should be a new thread. Here is one thing I am considering, and any feedback would be appreciated. My question revolves around both resale value, and retail price drops as models become replaced with new generations. I am considering buying the Runco 750 now, and then selling it in a couple of years. At that time I'd like to buy the SIM2 M150 (or something of comparable quality) that is being replaced by something new.

First, in general, what is the resale value after a couple of years of projectors like the 750? I have bought a number of TVs, and for the most part I have just given the old ones away for nothing, or a couple hundred dollars since the resale value is so low. Even if get the 750 for around half the MSRP, I would hope it would have decent resale value for a few years, but I don't know.

Second, do these $30Kish projectors (regardless of the manufacturer) come down much in price after a couple of years around the time new models are going to come out? The SIM2 dealer said those projectors don't come down too much in price over time, but he has a vested interest in selling me an M150 today for close to the MSRP. When I am talking about price drops, I mean from dealers. I would rather pay more through a reputable dealer rather than take my chances buying off ebay or something like that.

Or, rather than looking to get a significant price cut off a line that is about to be replaced, have new generations of high end projectors come out with notably lower MSRP's? Using the plasma TVs I have bought as an example, The first plasma I bought was a 50 inch for $6,000. The last one I bought about 5 years later was a 60 inch Pioneer Elite kuro which was almost half that price and of course way better quality. While I would not expect something that extreme, do high end projectors follow anything like that curve? Since I just started researching projectors a couple of months ago, I don't know how things have evolved over the years.
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post #56 of 95 Old 10-20-2012, 09:22 AM
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In a couple of years the 750 will have no significant value at all. As you have stated, it is not a bright projector, nor does it project 3-d ( which may or may not influence some future buyers). With the performance of today's sub $5000 it is really hard justifying buying used. What > 4 year old projector would you buy today? It's for today's enjoyment, not tomorrows investment.
If I were purchasing a new projector right now, I would be hard pressed choosing between the JVC 55, Sony 50, or the Runco 750 for 2-d. Because you want 3-d and a large screen, and you are concerned with resell value, the JVC/Sony would be the way to go. I still find the 750's picture to be quite fluid and enjoyable.
Just my opinion.
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post #57 of 95 Old 10-22-2012, 03:20 AM
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irjs >>> On the other side of the resale value/price drop conundrum you should remind yourself how much money you would be already saving by not paying full msrp for a Runco Q-750i, which i imagine would be in the neighborhood of 50% ?
And keep in mind that with a LED projector you can keep it running for hours every day just like regular TV without any concerns for bulb replacement & all.
Home Theater Magazine tested all three of these clones and after calibration the user can expect onscreen brightness levels from 15 ft-L to 17 ft-L on a 100 inch wide unity-gain screen, which is right in line with SMPTE recommendation for onscreen brightness between 14 ft-L to 16 ft-L, while at the same time all three projectors achieved black floor level of 0.002 ft-L.
I would guess that in 2~3 years when you'd be ready to sell the Runco you would be looking for a flat panel display or pj with native 4K resolution, which the SIM M150 doesn't offer, and should consider yourself lucky to get 25% of what you originally paid for it; Keep in mind that you could improve your chances for higher resale value by including a brand new PT-120 LED R/G/B chipset sold directly from the manufacturer Luminus Devices for approximately $230 that would essentially extended the life of the projector by thousands of hours and seem to be easily replaceable, as well as the fact that unlike LCOS and LCD micro displays, DMD chips do not suffer from heat degradation and last much longer, especially one being illuminated by LEDs instead of UHP/xenon bulbs.
From my observations it doesn't appear that new generations of high end projectors come out with notably lower msrp; Case in point is the new Sony 4K projector at $25,000.00 which is $5,000.00 less than the first Sony SXRD native 2K that came out some years ago for "only" $30,000.00, while most top-of-the-line LCOS projectors from JVC seem to have msrp between $8,000.00 to $10,000.00.
Just my two cents worth....

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post #58 of 95 Old 10-22-2012, 06:18 AM
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irjs: I agree with both the 2 previous posters advise/input. If you are trying to cut some corners on cost, DPI dealers get regular opportunities to get B stock units that come out of shows and reps hands. They come as new, with full warranties. I, or your local DPI dealer may be able to help you there. I know of a demo Runco piece as well. If you get the unit and it's properly sized to your screen, I expect you'll be happy with it for years to come and wanting to change it out will be less of an issue than I think you think it will be. It throws a nice picture, one that does not infect most with upgradeitus.

As for value, I'd say if you don't keep it too long and it was bought new -40-50% and you'd be doing good. If you start with a lower cost unit you might take less of a hit. If anyone comes out with something substantially better at a similar price point and it has any age on it, you can't hardly give them away (maybe 25%). It will be hard to say what the next couple of years will bring. There's little to no sign of TI releasing a 4k chip to the consumer market, and there are virtually no 4k consumer sources. I would certainly expect that if 4k is released, and in the LCOS 4k market, the 4k units will be priced as high as the market can bear. Meanwhile on the 1080 world, we may see some price drops to compete with 4k, but I doubt by much. Nothing indicates the bottom will fall out.

That said, a well cared for unit, documented, and from a reliable seller to the right buyer, one can often find good opportunities to sell at better than average price.

HTH,
Scott
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post #59 of 95 Old 10-23-2012, 11:59 AM
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If anyone is concerned with the resale value of a projector they should not buy a high end projector. The law of diminishing returns kicks in greatly on high end projectors. is the Runco Q really 12 times better than a MITS HC-4000? I would say no way, but the retail price is 12 times higher. That said most do not pay retail for either projector.

How much is a used HC-4000 worth after 4 years? One can only imagine that if the right price was paid for a Q-750 the loss will be less and the length of time the projector will preform will be longer than a lower priced model. I know I could sell mine for at least 75% of what I paid as that is what the last two on Ebay have gone for and mine is almost three years old.

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post #60 of 95 Old 10-24-2012, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the comments. The more I think about it the more the q750 makes sense for me. Not sure if the m150 is my Ferrari or my Lamborghini but in either case I don't want to buy that now. Rather than telling my wife how much I spent on a home theatre and high end projector, I guess I can tell her I saved about $20k with the runco. The 750 is still a great product and I can enjoy it for a good long time.
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