Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 432 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12931 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 11:51 AM
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[quote/]=Deja Vu;39987274 I must say I think the RS-400 is the best buy in projectors right now. It is 98% of what the 500 is from what I've seen. [/quote]

I think you're the first person who has been able to closely compare these two models outside of a dealer's showroom or a trade show. It is surprising how much attention the RS500/600 has gotten this year in comparison to the RS400.

I was originally looking at the RS400/X550 but ended up upgrading to the X750. I'm very pleased with it and have no regrets about spending the extra money but it's nice to see JVC is still making a strong 'entry-level' model.

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post #12932 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 11:53 AM
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I noticed that the JVC has 3D adjustments for Parallax and Crosstalk. I don't recall anyone mentioning using these controls. Do they have a practical function?
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post #12933 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Again, I'm shocked at just how good the PQ is on these projectors (especially the 3D). If you've seen what the RS-400/500 are capable of and then look at the cost differential between them and the true 4K machines -- you can understand what I'm talking about.
I said it before, but will say it again...I think it's just amazing what JVC is offering this year with the RS400 and its price. It completely blows away anything near it's price range. JVC is going to clean up this part of the market rather strongly next year.
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post #12934 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 01:34 PM
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So, do the current gen JVCs still have really slow HDMI handshaking like the previous gen?

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post #12935 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
So, do the current gen JVCs still have really slow HDMI handshaking like the previous gen?
It's actually slower.
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post #12936 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post
It's actually slower.
Yikes! My X700 was a nightmare to get totally stabilized. I finally have my system working in perfect harmony so I'm scared to touch any settings or replace any components.

One recommendation I have if you're experiencing HDMI handshake issues is to disable CEC in every component in the chain. Disable all 4K scaling as well, if disabling CEC doesn't help. I had to disable both of those features in every component in order to get it to all work seamlessly together.

Also note that each manufacturer has coined it's own term for CEC so you may have to research the setting for each component in order to know what setting it is, as it's not always clear.

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post #12937 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 02:35 PM
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My JVC X500 told me to change my bulb today. Nearly 3000hrs on my current bulb.
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post #12938 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 03:58 PM
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Anyone getting a good straight measured gamma curve around 2.3-2.4?

I've tried all gamma settings 2.1-2.5 plus A on the X750R and I cannot get it perfectly straight, even with cranking up the Dark Level my low end is always starting around 2.7 or so and then around 40IRE it comes down to 2.1 IRE.

Gamma = A is the flattest I can get but it's still not a straight line.

This is measured with a X1d3 and HCFR software.

JKP 1.3 gain 138" diagonal 2.35 screen

JVC in low lamp
Brightness = 4
Contrast = -1
Colorspace/Input is Standard from Oppo 103D using AVCHD patterns (and Spears Munsil BD disk)
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post #12939 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 05:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Anyone getting a good straight measured gamma curve around 2.3-2.4?

I've tried all gamma settings 2.1-2.5 plus A on the X750R and I cannot get it perfectly straight, even with cranking up the Dark Level my low end is always starting around 2.7 or so and then around 40IRE it comes down to 2.1 IRE.

Gamma = A is the flattest I can get but it's still not a straight line.

This is measured with a X1d3 and HCFR software.

JKP 1.3 gain 138" diagonal 2.35 screen

JVC in low lamp
Brightness = 4
Contrast = -1
Colorspace/Input is Standard from Oppo 103D using AVCHD patterns (and Spears Munsil BD disk)
How many hours?

You need to try the Autocal as it makes the gamma totally linear.

With brightness set to 4 you definitely have raised your blacklevel.
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post #12940 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
How many hours?

You need to try the Autocal as it makes the gamma totally linear.

With brightness set to 4 you definitely have raised your blacklevel.
I now have 52 hrs on the bulb.

I'm waiting for the Spyder 5 Pro to be supported.

When I press the Hide button with a 0 IRE pattern up I see no shift in brightness or anything....isn't that the true test of not raising the black level?
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post #12941 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Yikes! My X700 was a nightmare to get totally stabilized. I finally have my system working in perfect harmony so I'm scared to touch any settings or replace any components.

One recommendation I have if you're experiencing HDMI handshake issues is to disable CEC in every component in the chain. Disable all 4K scaling as well, if disabling CEC doesn't help. I had to disable both of those features in every component in order to get it to all work seamlessly together.

Also note that each manufacturer has coined it's own term for CEC so you may have to research the setting for each component in order to know what setting it is, as it's not always clear.
I don't think the sync is any slower and it is a lot more stable. people are not having a problem getting HDMI to lock on, just that it takes a few extra seconds to do so. Once it locks on it stays locked on.
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post #12942 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I don't think the sync is any slower and it is a lot more stable. people are not having a problem getting HDMI to lock on, just that it takes a few extra seconds to do so. Once it locks on it stays locked on.
Do you still have to set timing delays if you use a universal remote, and/or be sure you power on your components in a certain order so the projector HDMI locks and doesn't give you a pink or green or static screen?

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post #12943 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 09:38 PM
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Is the 500/600 able to use 4k eShift with 1080p 3D BluRay source and/or a 4k UHD source?

Last edited by lancenell; 12-26-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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post #12944 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Do you still have to set timing delays if you use a universal remote, and/or be sure you power on your components in a certain order so the projector HDMI locks and doesn't give you a pink or green or static screen?
No.
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post #12945 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
No.
Well that's good news. Do you think JVC will ever introduce a 'Game Mode'? Has that been talked about at CEDIA or any other events?

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post #12946 of 19419 Old 12-23-2015, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I now have 52 hrs on the bulb.

I'm waiting for the Spyder 5 Pro to be supported.

When I press the Hide button with a 0 IRE pattern up I see no shift in brightness or anything....isn't that the true test of not raising the black level?
That is correct. andreas may want to wait until measuring the new units, these are not the same behavior as the previous gen.

I also verified this with my Minolta T10. I can go higher than 4 and it will not affect the black floor. This seems to be a requirement to try and resolve down to 18, no matter what the brightness setting, it will not resolve 17 in standard mode.

This is a deviation from previous years and has been discussed in detail in the owners thread. It looks like a firmware update would be needed to fully resolve the issue.

for gamma - I just tested 2.3 and 2.4, it was relatively flat before and after I ran the autocal with the spyder 4.

can you post the screen of the gamma output?

Also, what is your current software version on the X750?
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post #12947 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
That is correct. andreas may want to wait until measuring the new units, these are not the same behavior as the previous gen.

I also verified this with my Minolta T10. I can go higher than 4 and it will not affect the black floor. This seems to be a requirement to try and resolve down to 18, no matter what the brightness setting, it will not resolve 17 in standard mode.

This is a deviation from previous years and has been discussed in detail in the owners thread. It looks like a firmware update would be needed to fully resolve the issue.

for gamma - I just tested 2.3 and 2.4, it was relatively flat before and after I ran the autocal with the spyder 4.

can you post the screen of the gamma output?

Also, what is your current software version on the X750?
I'll try to get a screenshot up here...it's on my other computer.

My current software is 83.1

I ended up dropping the Brightness down to 0 from 4, because I noticed that I could barely see 17 anyways at 1' distance even, and even moving to 0 from 4 allowed me to still see 18 at my seating distance.

Now, I have no idea if moving Brightness from 4 to 0 actually improves my black levels, because like I said I couldn't see that with the Hide test anyways. Just figured I'd keep it at 0 since that's what you had recommended in your settings anyways.
Contrast btw is also at 0.
Gamma is still on "A" with it's dark level at 7.

Last edited by Sittler27; 12-24-2015 at 10:18 AM. Reason: adjusted current software level
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post #12948 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I ran the autocal with the Spyder 4 but fairly sure the gamma was relatively flat before the autocal.

I'm going to restore it back to factory settings and take a look again.


different topic - Is anyone playing around with the Sony 4K media player on the new JVC's? I just realized an issue the other night - I can't seem to get the player into 24hz mode, it stays in 60 regardless of the content I am playing. There is a setting for auto sync but it's turned on and doesn't seem to be working correctly.
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post #12949 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 09:04 AM
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I tried Brightness of 5 with Black level of 3 with gamma of 2.4 and I don't believe this raised the black floor. I could just barely see 17 on the AVS test disk.

These settings did make the projector come out of black pretty fast (bars 18 and up getting reasonably bright compared to 16) though. I think many people would like that for some sources, but would be a bad thing for other sources.

On a motorcycle scene in the last Riddick I liked this shadow detail. On some of the original Bond movies I recall the black floor looking like it was encoded above black, so this would likely be a bad thing.

Around Morgan Freeman in the scene where he is introduced in Oblivion I could see that the background wasn't encoded as black. Panasonic put something out around their OLED introduction that they brought in somebody who worked on the movie and said LG's OLEDs were coming out of black too quickly because they shouldn't be showing any detail behind Morgan Freeman in that scene. I figure if the people who release a movie want something to show up as black they should encode it as black.

I see things like this as a problem likely caused by mastering on an inferior display. However, it is encoded as it is and we can choose how to display it.

At least it seems like we have some easy enough controls for controlling shadow detail once people figure out what they do and where the cutoffs are.

I don't believe we checked how these settings interact with the dynamic Iris.

--Darin
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post #12950 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Darin thanks for the info. Do you think this needs to be fixed in a firmware update? I don't recall having to make these changes on the previous models.

can you go into further detail on the MF scene in Oblivion? How does this look on your OLED TV?
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post #12951 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
That is correct. andreas may want to wait until measuring the new units, these are not the same behavior as the previous gen.

I also verified this with my Minolta T10. I can go higher than 4 and it will not affect the black floor. This seems to be a requirement to try and resolve down to 18, no matter what the brightness setting, it will not resolve 17 in standard mode.

This is a deviation from previous years and has been discussed in detail in the owners thread. It looks like a firmware update would be needed to fully resolve the issue.

for gamma - I just tested 2.3 and 2.4, it was relatively flat before and after I ran the autocal with the spyder 4.

can you post the screen of the gamma output?

Also, what is your current software version on the X750?
Here is my gamma curve attached where I can't get it totally flat.

Also, I corrected my software version in my post, as I noticed it's actually 83.1 not 0.83.

Adding to this list of issues, I also find that the CMS is completely useless.
When I do continuous measurements with the meter and look at a CIE chart at 709 I see red is slightly unsaturated and green is off a bit, but I can't get it dialled in at all with the CMS controls (hue, saturation, brightness).
Should I be using the actual Color or Tint settings instead (haven't tried that).
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post #12952 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
I tried Brightness of 5 with Black level of 3 with gamma of 2.4 and I don't believe this raised the black floor. I could just barely see 17 on the AVS test disk.

--Darin
I don't think it matters if you are at Brightness 5 or even 0 as I don't see it changing the fact that I can't see 17 and that I can still see 18.
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post #12953 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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not surprising on the CMS, it wasn't that useful in previous generations either.

have you tried adjusting picture tone up a few clicks, that should help the high end. Dark settings up a few clicks should bring down the low end.

also, is your ID3 calibrated? this is one of the nice bonuses from buying the kit from Chromapure. Tom will reference the meter against a known high end meter and create the correct offsets in the CP license.
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post #12954 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 10:48 AM
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Today i recievced my new JVC rs400,


But i have a huge problem.


When i play a normal 2d movie with my dune base hd 3d there is no problem.


But when i select a 3d movie de screen turns blue and there is no sync.


When i use my playstation 4 to play a 3d disk there is no problem.


Do more people have this issue?
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post #12955 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Did the Dune player work ok with your Sony projector? My mede8ter works perfect with the new JVC in 3D mode.
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post #12956 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
Today i recievced my new JVC rs400,


But i have a huge problem.


When i play a normal 2d movie with my dune base hd 3d there is no problem.


But when i select a 3d movie de screen turns blue and there is no sync.


When i use my playstation 4 to play a 3d disk there is no problem.


Do more people have this issue?


What else do you have in the chain? If you have an HD Fury integral, this is a bug I reported which should be fixed in the next f/w. In the meantime, you have to read the EDID of the projector and write it in the HD Fury to be able to display 3D properly.
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post #12957 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Did the Dune player work ok with your Sony projector? My mede8ter works perfect with the new JVC in 3D mode.

Hello there the sony did worked perfect,i dont get it?
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post #12958 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
Today i recievced my new JVC rs400,


But i have a huge problem.


When i play a normal 2d movie with my dune base hd 3d there is no problem.


But when i select a 3d movie de screen turns blue and there is no sync.


When i use my playstation 4 to play a 3d disk there is no problem.


Do more people have this issue?
I had a similar problem with my Sony blu-ray player (BDP-S790). It worked fine in straight 2D 1080P and also 2D 4K upscale but not in 3D. Try using the HDMI2 input and setting EDID mode to 'B' (for legacy devices) as I was able to get it to work with these settings.

My PS3 works fine in 3D regardless of EDID mode so it seems to be an isolated issue with HDMI 2.0 compatibility and certain source components.

Bruce K.
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post #12959 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 11:49 AM
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What is the RS500'S going street price? Sorry for the question.

Thanks,
Tom

My equipment: JVC RS55 for 2D, BenQ W7000 for 3D, Carada 40x117 2.925:1 AR BW Criterion screen, Navatar .8 HD conversion lens, Darbee Darblet, region free Oppo BP93, Toshiba HD-A35 HD-DVD, JVC HD-DH5U D-Theater, Mitsubishi HS-HD 20000 DVHS, Pioneer CLD-97 LD player/AC-3 mod, B&K AC3 Demodulator
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post #12960 of 19419 Old 12-24-2015, 11:54 AM
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What is the RS500'S going street price? Sorry for the question.

Thanks,
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I don't think we are allowed to discuss.
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