Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 479 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14341 of 19500 Old 05-13-2016, 08:42 AM
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post #14342 of 19500 Old 05-13-2016, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tanwn1 View Post
For info, dune cannot display correct color space especially green when using spears n munsil to check. This happens on the new jvc projector rs500/600 but it display correctly on the older x500. For mede8er u need to uncheck xv color space to make sure it display correctly on the new rs500/600.
Hi, can you provide additional details? I've mainly been using it with my Sharp 30K 3D DLP for testing 3D BD ISO, I didn't check any color settings on the RS600. I'm aware of the mede8ter color space settings.

Sometimes newer - isn't better. time to go give my 2 Mede8ter's a hug and apologize for considering their replacement.
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post #14343 of 19500 Old 05-13-2016, 12:27 PM
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Wow, that's funny...we both have LS10000s, and both drive '95 model cars (Camry in my case).
Oh dude, I was merely providing a hypothetical scenario. I do not, and will never drive a Subaru. I personally am a car guy just not a grease monkey, so I like cars that still run fine and I don't have to fix all the time.

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post #14344 of 19500 Old 05-13-2016, 12:33 PM
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Any of you guys tried these Luxe HDMI's out for 4k transfer. I need a 35' I think:

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13758

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post #14345 of 19500 Old 05-13-2016, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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There is a long discussion in the JVC thread regarding 4K capable HDMI cables, many are having issues passing 10bit HDR UHD over long lengths.

if this is just basic 8 bit SDR UHD content, it will probably be ok.
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post #14346 of 19500 Old 05-13-2016, 02:52 PM
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Oh dude, I was merely providing a hypothetical scenario. I do not, and will never drive a Subaru. I personally am a car guy just not a grease monkey, so I like cars that still run fine and I don't have to fix all the time.
You should get a '95 Camry then...it's a great babe magnet.
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post #14347 of 19500 Old 05-14-2016, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Network Media players roundup

A group photos of my many different network media players over the years.



General timeline:

Popcorn Hour A110
- 2008 - This could play back raw m2ts files ripped right off the BD and it could play Full HD audio. Pretty impressive for the time period and could store an internal 2.5 drive.

Popcorn Hour C200 - 2010 - This had a nice rack form factor and could store an internal BD-ROM if you wanted to use it as a BD player. Good intentions but execution wasn't great. Generally slow and had various issues with BD menu support. This was my last popcorn hour because it left me disappointed with this company. They seemed to quickly jump the next model and abandon the previous models. Only 2D so this one is dead to me.

Mica EP950 - 2012 - Predecessor to the excellent Mede8ter. Also good intentions and could play back full frame packed 3D MVC MKV's. Overall buggy though and development was abandoned.

Mede8ter MED1000X and MED800X - 2013 - A media player blessing - finally. This did 1 specific thing I wanted excellent and does it perfect every time. Play back a huge library of 2D and 3D MKV's with full HD audio. They are STILL DEVELOPING FIRMWARE updates! amazing for a 3 year old niche product. Major caveats is no full BD menu support and issues playing back BD ISO with seamless branch. This is why most who owned this player ripped to MKV which solves this issue.

Dune HD Solo 4K - note, this is still an HDMI 1.4 device and does not support HDR playback. 8 bit UHD files up to 30 frames are fine. This one is growing on me since it has full BD Menu support for 2D and 3D. They must fix the issue with playing back the 3D MVC MKV files. This player is nearly $400 and they have to match features of the players from 3 years ago. A fellow member is reaching out to them to see if this can be added with a future update.



I know someone is going to ask 'why bother with these, why not just use an HTPC' - I've had HTPC's since the early 2000's and all TV viewing/recording is handled by Media Center on Win7 + a Ceton 6 tuner card. I have Ceton Echo's and X360 extenders all over the house. I also experiment heavily with MadVR, JRiver, etc. However for general 'appliance like use' with easy to use 10 foot GUI / Remote controls, it's just easier for me to use the media devices around my house for family members and also for portability.

Both the Mede8ter 1000 and Dune Solo allow you to add a hard drive without tools or opening the case (Med800 you have to take the bottom off, mount the 3.5" drive, etc).



I just installed a 2TB 7mm slim drive in the Dune. Around 50 full BD movies in a very portable package is nice and my main interest in this player. I have several friends with Home Theaters and I bring over the media players packed with the latest movies with no compression compromises.
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post #14348 of 19500 Old 05-14-2016, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
A group photos of my many different network media players over the years.



General timeline:

Popcorn Hour A110
- 2008 - This could play back raw m2ts files ripped right off the BD and it could play Full HD audio. Pretty impressive for the time period and could store an internal 2.5 drive.

Popcorn Hour C200 - 2010 - This had a nice rack form factor and could store an internal BD-ROM if you wanted to use it as a BD player. Good intentions but execution wasn't great. Generally slow and had various issues with BD menu support. This was my last popcorn hour because it left me disappointed with this company. They seemed to quickly jump the next model and abandon the previous models. Only 2D so this one is dead to me.

Mica EP950 - 2012 - Predecessor to the excellent Mede8ter. Also good intentions and could play back full frame packed 3D MVC MKV's. Overall buggy though and development was abandoned.

Mede8ter MED1000X and MED800X - 2013 - A media player blessing - finally. This did 1 specific thing I wanted excellent and does it perfect every time. Play back a huge library of 2D and 3D MKV's with full HD audio. They are STILL DEVELOPING FIRMWARE updates! amazing for a 3 year old niche product. Major caveats is no full BD menu support and issues playing back BD ISO with seamless branch. This is why most who owned this player ripped to MKV which solves this issue.

Dune HD Solo 4K - note, this is still an HDMI 1.4 device and does not support HDR playback. 8 bit UHD files up to 30 frames are fine. This one is growing on me since it has full BD Menu support for 2D and 3D. They must fix the issue with playing back the 3D MVC MKV files. This player is nearly $400 and they have to match features of the players from 3 years ago. A fellow member is reaching out to them to see if this can be added with a future update.



I know someone is going to ask 'why bother with these, why not just use an HTPC' - I've had HTPC's since the early 2000's and all TV viewing/recording is handled by Media Center on Win7 + a Ceton 6 tuner card. I have Ceton Echo's and X360 extenders all over the house. I also experiment heavily with MadVR, JRiver, etc. However for general 'appliance like use' with easy to use 10 foot GUI / Remote controls, it's just easier for me to use the media devices around my house for family members and also for portability.

Both the Mede8ter 1000 and Dune Solo allow you to add a hard drive without tools or opening the case (Med800 you have to take the bottom off, mount the 3.5" drive, etc).



I just installed a 2TB 7mm slim drive in the Dune. Around 50 full BD movies in a very portable package is nice and my main interest in this player. I have several friends with Home Theaters and I bring over the media players packed with the latest movies with no compression compromises.
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post #14349 of 19500 Old 05-14-2016, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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The Dune will stay for the ability to play back the 2D and 3D BD's with full menu support and also the portability. It's very small and easy to carry around. I think they will fix my 1 concern with the 3D MVC MKV's. There is no reason it can't support it, it can already play back the 3D ISO's.

The theme in this topic is the overall convenience these devices afford on the road and in home theater. The UHD Samsung player is a reminder of how much I don't like swapping BD's in a player. Over the last 3 years with the Mede8ter, I have instant, direct access to 50TB+ of my BD's. They stay safe in temp controlled room, and away from human hands. All of this for an extremely low cost when you look at the devices like the kaleidescape. I know there are major licensing fees involved and this adds to their cost, etc.

These devices and methods of backup are a bit rogue and off the grid - but glad all this technology exists for those who know how to take advantage of it.
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post #14350 of 19500 Old 05-14-2016, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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This would be a day 1 purchase, rumor has it that it will be avail in Sept/Oct this year. Hopefully with ATMOS.

http://realorfake4k.com/my-product/oblivion/

\

This is a good article on why Oblivion looks so great considering the limitations of BD.

http://www.redsharknews.com/producti...n-look-so-good
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post #14351 of 19500 Old 05-14-2016, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I know someone is going to ask 'why bother with these, why not just use an HTPC' - I've had HTPC's since the early 2000's and all TV viewing/recording is handled by Media Center on Win7 + a Ceton 6 tuner card. I have Ceton Echo's and X360 extenders all over the house. I also experiment heavily with MadVR, JRiver, etc. However for general 'appliance like use' with easy to use 10 foot GUI / Remote controls, it's just easier for me to use the media devices around my house for family members and also for portability.
You should give Kodi/OpenELEC a try, I've got it running on an Asus Chromebox, and it works great (so long as I don't break it by updating to beta software ). Downside is there's no BD menus or MVC 3D (on the PC version, however the Raspberry Pi version does play 3D MVC), and it's got a beautiful interface.

For me, with no interest in BD menus or 3D (I might be interested if I had a projector that actually had good 3D, but IMO the RS49 is not good), it works quite well.
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post #14352 of 19500 Old 05-14-2016, 06:35 PM
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Hi, can you provide additional details? I've mainly been using it with my Sharp 30K 3D DLP for testing 3D BD ISO, I didn't check any color settings on the RS600. I'm aware of the mede8ter color space settings.

Sometimes newer - isn't better. time to go give my 2 Mede8ter's a hug and apologize for considering their replacement.
If you use spears n munsil disc to check. The green contrast on dune is clipped wherelse blue and red is fine. Most people may not notice during actual movie but it tires the eyes due to the imbalance Color space. If you use mede8er, you need to uncheck xvYV Color space on mede8er to ensure correct Color space on rs600. For older x500 it is not affected by this issue. For those who don't have spears munsil, use a filter to check Color n u know what I mean.
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post #14353 of 19500 Old 05-15-2016, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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JVC 3D revisit

Last night after watching Deadpool, a friend asked to see some 3D on the JVC (he has a Sony HW55). We went through clips from the Original Avengers, Big Hero 6, Alice in Wonderland, AntMan 3D, etc.

It has to be repeated how well JVC has done with 3D this year. To go from one of worst (RS40/50) to literally one of the best performing non DLP projectors is remarkable while still using the same chassis / platform.

Sony can't match this with any of the competing 1080P projectors. They couldn't match it with the VW1100 flagship or the mid-range VW600. I hear there are improvements with the VW665 and would have to see this for myself to be certain. Even then, it's a 15K MSRP projector and RS400 is only 4K MSRP.

3D in the home might have been a non starter but it's definitely not dead. Star Wars Force Awakens (3D trailer is amazing, not wasting time with 2D BD, will wait for this one), Rogue One, X-men Apocalypse, Suicide Squad, CA: Civil War and Alice Through The Looking Glass is going to be a trip in 3D.

2010-2016 and at least 4 more years to go based on current announcements. that is one long death!
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post #14354 of 19500 Old 05-15-2016, 08:40 AM
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I hear there are improvements with the VW665 and would have to see this for myself to be certain. Even then, it's a 15K MSRP projector and RS400 is only 4K MSRP.
Last week, I order a pair of Sony 3D Glass to test the 3D on my 665.

On my JVC RS50 as you and many report, it's the best 3D I have seen (non DLP).

Not a big 3D fan but, like many here, I love to test so I will report back this week if Sony really made improvement in this area.
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post #14355 of 19500 Old 05-15-2016, 08:52 AM
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It has to be repeated how well JVC has done with 3D this year. To go from one of worst (RS40/50) to literally one of the best performing non DLP projectors is remarkable while still using the same chassis / platform.
While there is less overall cross-talk compared to my previous RS57, on my RS600 I'm still seeing a breaking up of the image with motion when watching 3D. A strobing type effect. I'm still not sure which controls in particular to fiddle with, to try to reduce that problem if possible.
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post #14356 of 19500 Old 05-15-2016, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Rick, pls keep us posted when you get a chance on your experience.

Rich, what MPC settings are you using in 3D mode, is dynamic gamma turned down to zero?
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post #14357 of 19500 Old 05-15-2016, 10:59 AM
 
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I have noticed on occasion with the previous (and current) JVCs, is that there seems to be a glitch where there is some parallax adjustment enabled by default when setting up the 3D mode. When I notice this issue I restart the projector to alleviate the issue. This doesn't always happen, but I have noticed it a few times. I wonder if this is what Rich is seeing?
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post #14358 of 19500 Old 05-15-2016, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Thanks Rick, pls keep us posted when you get a chance on your experience.

Rich, what MPC settings are you using in 3D mode, is dynamic gamma turned down to zero?
I think my MPC settings are the same I typically use for 2D: dynamic contrast at 4, enhance at 4, smoothing at 2, NR at 0. I'll double check tonight.

Dynamic gamma...I'm unfamiliar with that setting. Is it under the 3D controls? (A search isn't turning it up in the manual - did you mean dynamic contrast?).

I see there are "3D format" controls...though I'm not sure what those do. Is there a setting I should check there?

I also know about the Parallax and Cross-talk controls, but not sure which are advisable to adjust.

Thanks.
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post #14359 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Rich, hi sorry I was referring to the Dynamic Contrast in the MPC settings, if you have it on 4, try it on 0.
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post #14360 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Industry working towards adding dynamic metadata to HDR10 standard

@Manni01 - check out this article

Industry working towards adding dynamic metadata to HDR10 standard

Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...c2euVq4oqXB.99

that's a little reality check to show how much we are in the infancy of HDR.

new HDMI update, etc. If I was purchasing an expensive projector like the VW5000ES I would need it in writing (blood) from Sony (certified and stamped) that it WILL be upgraded (not can it be upgraded).
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post #14361 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
@Manni01 - check out this article

Industry working towards adding dynamic metadata to HDR10 standard

Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...c2euVq4oqXB.99

that's a little reality check to show how much we are in the infancy of HDR.

new HDMI update, etc. If I was purchasing an expensive projector like the VW5000ES I would need it in writing (blood) from Sony (certified and stamped) that it WILL be upgraded (not can it be upgraded).

Requiring a new HDMI update would require new hardware in this case?
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post #14362 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
@Manni01 - check out this article

Industry working towards adding dynamic metadata to HDR10 standard

Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...c2euVq4oqXB.99

that's a little reality check to show how much we are in the infancy of HDR.

new HDMI update, etc. If I was purchasing an expensive projector like the VW5000ES I would need it in writing (blood) from Sony (certified and stamped) that it WILL be upgraded (not can it be upgraded).
Why does this just sound like a terrible idea to me: "Dynamic metadata will allow a HDR TV to move up and down the average picture brightness level by adjusting the PQ curve. This can be done on a scene-by-scene (or even frame-by-frame) basis during a movie."

That just seems like it will cause more problems to me.

Are they really changing the calibration on the mastering monitors scene to scene, frame to frame? I'm struggling to see the need or use for this.

Last edited by stanger89; 05-16-2016 at 10:47 AM.
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post #14363 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 11:04 AM
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Requiring a new HDMI update would require new hardware in this case?
But of course. Making things obsolete is job # 1 !
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post #14364 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 11:07 AM
 
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Requiring a new HDMI update would require new hardware in this case?
Quote:
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But of course. Making things obsolete is job # 1 !
The way Sony explains it is that the 5000ES is both firmware updateable to add new standards and also the HDMI and other I/O cards are swappable. They built it like some of the pro models in that it's modular to add features and hardware as it comes out. This makes sense as they also sell the 5000ES as a pro model. Think of it like a desktop PC where video cards can be swapped.
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post #14365 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
@Manni01 - check out this article

Industry working towards adding dynamic metadata to HDR10 standard

Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...c2euVq4oqXB.99

that's a little reality check to show how much we are in the infancy of HDR.

new HDMI update, etc. If I was purchasing an expensive projector like the VW5000ES I would need it in writing (blood) from Sony (certified and stamped) that it WILL be upgraded (not can it be upgraded).
This, actually, is a great feature. As long as the mastering process remain unchanged, as was mentioned, it gives you another space for control. I think of it more like a CMS for HDR.
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post #14366 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 11:37 AM
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3D in the home might have been a non starter but it's definitely not dead. Star Wars Force Awakens (3D trailer is amazing, not wasting time with 2D BD, will wait for this one), Rogue One, X-men Apocalypse, Suicide Squad, CA: Civil War and Alice Through The Looking Glass is going to be a trip in 3D.

2010-2016 and at least 4 more years to go based on current announcements. that is one long death!
Quite the contrary it might regain popularity. I imagine similarities in resolving brightness issue with HDR, perhaps the same principle can be applied to 3D. Then the discomfort in wearing 3D glasses will also diminish in time. What's there not to like once HDR, 4K, and 3D works seamlessly the way it should?

Btw zombie, don't forget The Jungle Book and Spielberg's upcoming film The BFG. In Imax 3D, TJB was the best I've seen since Avatar. I think Jon Favreau should be given a shot to direct, at least, one of the Star Wars sequels.
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post #14367 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
@Manni01 - check out this article

Industry working towards adding dynamic metadata to HDR10 standard

Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...c2euVq4oqXB.99

that's a little reality check to show how much we are in the infancy of HDR.

new HDMI update, etc. If I was purchasing an expensive projector like the VW5000ES I would need it in writing (blood) from Sony (certified and stamped) that it WILL be upgraded (not can it be upgraded).
I have been talking about this - especially about HDMI 2.1 for dynamic metadata - for months, in this very thread [EDIT: wrong thread, meant the JVC thread].

It's unlikely we'll see any remotely decent implementation of HDR before the end of 2017 I'm afraid, and that's a best case scenario.

This is why the current models are perfect to dip our toes into HDR and UHD Bluray, but I would certainly not buy any expensive display until all this dust settles. There is no point waiting for the next models as HDMI 2.1 won't be finalized by the end of the year, and if they need new silicon for HDMI 2.1, then they'll never support it.

Re the VW5000ES, you would also need a guarantee that they have solved their panels degradation issue, which they will never give you of course.

For me my next PJ upgrade is native 4K, laser, HDMI 2.1 and ideally Dolby Vision (if it ever makes it to projectors, or maybe to the Radiance Pro) for under 10K. Until all these are offered, I'm likely to stick to the RS500 which is a great stop-gap solution.

Last edited by Manni01; 05-16-2016 at 12:03 PM.
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post #14368 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 11:57 AM
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The way Sony explains it is that the 5000ES is both firmware updateable to add new standards and also the HDMI and other I/O cards are swappable. They built it like some of the pro models in that it's modular to add features and hardware as it comes out. This makes sense as they also sell the 5000ES as a pro model. Think of it like a desktop PC where video cards can be swapped.
But that won't be the case for other projectors, receivers and pre / pros and all your cables. Progress moves on. But that is a good feature for the 5000ES.

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post #14369 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 12:15 PM
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But that won't be the case for other projectors, receivers and pre / pros and all your cables. Progress moves on. But that is a good feature for the 5000ES.
That said, the notion of "future proof" is a myth which is growing stronger. Every aspect of an uber hi-end projector will be so different by 2025, aside from the lens and maybe a few modular parts or firmware versions, that the 5000ES will be a dinosaur. All of our current projectors will be. All of our sources will be along with our HDMI cables too. Pre/pros are a little different with respect to the audio side since the likes of Atmos (and whatever follows in the next decade) is much more of a gimmick or otherwise optional (assuming video direct to projector) when compared to the rather serious advances in projectors.
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post #14370 of 19500 Old 05-16-2016, 01:33 PM
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The Dune will stay for the ability to play back the 2D and 3D BD's with full menu support and also the portability. It's very small and easy to carry around. I think they will fix my 1 concern with the 3D MVC MKV's. There is no reason it can't support it, it can already play back the 3D ISO's.

The theme in this topic is the overall convenience these devices afford on the road and in home theater. The UHD Samsung player is a reminder of how much I don't like swapping BD's in a player. Over the last 3 years with the Mede8ter, I have instant, direct access to 50TB+ of my BD's. They stay safe in temp controlled room, and away from human hands. All of this for an extremely low cost when you look at the devices like the kaleidescape. I know there are major licensing fees involved and this adds to their cost, etc.

These devices and methods of backup are a bit rogue and off the grid - but glad all this technology exists for those who know how to take advantage of it.
Zombie,

I'm still surprised you don't have one of these: http://www.kaleidescape.com/

It seems like it would eliminate a lot of clutter for people. If I had the money, I would definitely have this toy.

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