Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 513 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15361 of 19421 Old 10-20-2016, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
If it is Gorm who calibrated the unit and you gave him your preferences I would guess he calibrated at 14-16fl. Just ask him at AVForum.

Andreas, is there an app on the iphone we can use as a meter to get a rough what our screens are set at?
If there is can you give us the best method in measuring please?


I seem to remember that some used to measure pointing the meter at the lens, and others said that was wrong...
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post #15362 of 19421 Old 10-20-2016, 02:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Andreas, is there an app on the iphone we can use as a meter to get a rough what our screens are set at?
If there is can you give us the best method in measuring please?


I seem to remember that some used to measure pointing the meter at the lens, and others said that was wrong...
I don´t know of any apps, the cheapest way is to buy a ok light meter and then do the math to figure out the brightness. I only use my Jeti or Klein to measure my brightness. With a lightmeter you have to put it touching the screen facing the lens, with a spectro or colorimeter you do it facing the screen.
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post #15363 of 19421 Old 10-21-2016, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Andreas, is there an app on the iphone we can use as a meter to get a rough what our screens are set at?
If there is can you give us the best method in measuring please?


I seem to remember that some used to measure pointing the meter at the lens, and others said that was wrong...
rapallo, am not sure if RS ship from au to NZ or if you have something local but am using one of these for a few years now.
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/light-meters/6973834/

you place at the screen pointing back at the lens. and multiply out fc by screen gain to get FL

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post #15364 of 19421 Old 10-21-2016, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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post #15365 of 19421 Old 10-21-2016, 10:40 AM
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@zombie10k Do you notice any RBE on the LG PF1500? Even with it being LED driven, I still notice it quite easily if I dart my eyes around on screen, which happens naturally during most movie conversations with the standard "shot - reverse shot" camera angles. Also pretty noticeable during normal panning shots.

Just want to figure out if I am hyper sensitive to this, or if you or other owners notice it this easily. When I did the comparison between the PF1500 and Epson LS10000 a few days ago to check how it handles 24p motion, one of the things I was reminded of and really appreciated was how calm and pleasing the LCOS picture of the LS10000 felt in comparison to the DLP. Unless single-chip DLPs can sequence the RBG colors even faster and completely eliminate RBE, a single chipper will never become an option as a dedicated HT projector for critical watching to me, even if TI somehow manages a breakthrough in contrast performance... It's fine for less critical viewing over shorter stretches, but it becomes quite fatiguing after an hour or so of more focused viewing - especially if the room is completely dark.

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post #15366 of 19421 Old 10-21-2016, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kohe321 View Post
@zombie10k Do you notice any RBE on the LG PF1500? Even with it being LED driven, I still notice it quite easily if I dart my eyes around on screen, which sadly happens naturally during most movie conversations with the standard "shot - reverse shot" camera angles. Also pretty noticeable during normal panning shots.

Just want to figure out if I am hyper sensitive to this, or if you or other owners notice it this easily. When I did the comparison between the PF1500 and Epson LS10000 a few days ago to check how it handles 24p motion, one of the things I was reminded of and really appreciated was how calm and pleasing the LCOS picture of the LS10000 felt in comparison to the DLP. Unless single-chip DLPs can sequence the RBG colors even faster and completely eliminate RBE, a single chipper will never become an option as a dedicated HT projector for critical watching to me, even if TI somehow manages a breakthrough in contrast performance... It's fine for less critical viewing over shorter stretches, but it becomes quite fatiguing after an hour or so of more focused viewing - especially if the room is completely dark.
Hi, I've had quite a few different DLP projectors over the years, the PF1500 definitely has some noticeable RBE, especially in the scenarios your describing. It has to do with the timing of the LED driver they are using, resulting in high brightness at the expense of some RBE.

I mainly use it for 60p TV shows and it doesn't really bother me with this content.

on the opposite end of the entry LED DLP spectrum is the Planar/Runco .95 projectors. These are still impressive to see today, I installed a DC4 panel in mine (they had DC2+ and DC3 from the factory). These are razor sharp projectors and excellent with RBE. They also have great color in lower APL scenes. It's only when we get into low / very low APL scenes where the native contrast stands out. Although it's really not much different of a threshold here vs. the Sony HW65 (6500:1 native) and the Epson 5030 (~5-6K:1 native). I prefer the PQ of the Planar vs. both those projectors.

The engineers put some serious thought into this projector back in 2008 and can still hold it's own with 2D BD today. It's also a source of truth when someone says a projector adds noise to the source. there is little if any VP on the Planar so if you see it, it's on the source.














it's also one of the lowest lag time 1080P projectors today, very fast with gaming

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post #15367 of 19421 Old 10-21-2016, 04:48 PM
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Ah, thanks for sharing that great information. I thought since it is led driven it would be fast and have less RBE than most color wheel based projectors, but I see that's not true.

The planar seems to be a really good projector. There are many things to like about DLP if RBE can be eliminated, and with the Planar's contrast performance that is within the realm of "good" I can understand how it deserves a place in your HT. I really hope TI can make some strides in developing the technology further. I've read that double stacking DMDs would increase the contrast performance enormously, which makes me wonder why no one has started exploring this more for HT projectors?

Aligning the DMDs could perhaps be a challenge, but seeing as LCOS manufacturers are already aligning three different panels to create a picture on screen, I can't see this beeing that big of an issue? Perhaps introducing a second DMD increases RBE?
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post #15368 of 19421 Old 10-21-2016, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kohe321 View Post
Ah, thanks for sharing that great information. I thought since it is led driven it would be fast and have less RBE than most color wheel based projectors, but I see that's not true.

The planar seems to be a really good projector. There are many things to like about DLP if RBE can be eliminated, and with the Planar's contrast performance that is within the realm of "good" I can understand how it deserves a place in your HT. I really hope TI can make some strides in developing the technology further. I've read that double stacking DMDs would increase the contrast performance enormously, which makes me wonder why no one has started exploring this more for HT projectors?

Aligning the DMDs could perhaps be a challenge, but seeing as LCOS manufacturers are already aligning three different panels to create a picture on screen, I can't see this beeing that big of an issue? Perhaps introducing a second DMD increases RBE?
If you are wanting an LED, I would look at the Vivitek H9090.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...s-led-dlp.html
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post #15369 of 19421 Old 10-24-2016, 01:36 PM
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You are not comparing apples to apples. The Rythmik is not even in the same ball park, compared to the SVS,

600 watts vs 1,500 (even larger difference in the peak watts)
40mm p to p vs 95mm p to p.
16" driver vs 15" driver

It takes a lot of sub to go low with some output. This is why many of us use large subs with a lot of power. I doubt that two Rythmik's will equal one PB16 in output.
Not saying you're wrong, Mike. But according to this site http://www.data-bass.com/systems, in testing the Rythmik was more capable than the SVS PB13-Ultra at around 20Hz and up and very comparable at 20Hz and below. The Rythmik was 9dB higher at 12.5Hz with one port closed. The Rythmik is extremely capable and sounds good with music and movies...something about that servo design.

I'm certain the SVS PB16-Ultra is a better sub, but not $1300 better. And I do think two Rythmiks would be better than one SVS. Two 15's vs one 16...no replacement, for displacement.

We'll all know how good the SVS is though, soon enough.
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post #15370 of 19421 Old 10-26-2016, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Microsoft adding Dolby ATMOS support to Xbox One S

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/26/...os-xbox-one-s/

Finally enough complaints must have made it's way up the chain.
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post #15371 of 19421 Old 10-27-2016, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post
MY opinion after owning and tweaking my 5040 to death for 6 weeks:

It's a great 1080 projector.

It's a very good 2K (not 4K!) projector in SDR. YouTube 4K sources etc.

It's a disappointing projector in UHD/HDR content.

It also appears to have poor 24p motion handling issues for me and a few others.
Hi, any new discoveries with the 24p content? What issues did you see with HDR?

The 5040/6040 thread is moving fast and there are some heated conversations with folks trying to discover the best settings.
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post #15372 of 19421 Old 10-27-2016, 03:48 PM
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https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/26/...os-xbox-one-s/

Finally enough complaints must have made it's way up the chain.
wonder whether that will include DTS-X ?? auro3d ? the other 3D audio formats ?

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post #15373 of 19421 Old 10-27-2016, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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wonder whether that will include DTS-X ?? auro3d ? the other 3D audio formats ?
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ox-one-s/36114

Hi, it looks like it will from the info below. This covers both Xbox's as well which is good for the early adopters.


In a timetable described as "coming soon," Microsoft will enable audio bitstreaming passthrough for Blu-ray. This means Atmos support as well as the typical, let the AVR handle the audio unpacking, Dolby TrueHD support.


If as promised, direct audio bitstreaming is included in the Creators Update, then early 2017 is when we should expect the Xbox One and Xbox One S to finally have proper Atmos support.

From Microsoft, "audio enthusiasts will be excited to learn that bitstream audio pass-through including Dolby Atmos support is coming soon to Xbox One with our Blu-ray player."


This update should allow proper Atmos (and hopefully DTS:X) support for all Xbox One owners. And just in case its not clear, the Atmos support is for Blu-rays on the Xbox One & Xbox One S and Ultra HD Blu-rays on the Xbox One S (no game support has been announced).
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post #15374 of 19421 Old 10-28-2016, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Intel Core m3 Compute Stick for HTPC use

I'm testing out the Intel Compute Stick this week as a possible option for media / streaming access in my other rooms. For TV I have MCE7 + the 6 channel Ceton tuner.

I've tried the Atom based baytrail and cherry trail sticks but were too slow for these tasks. The newer Core m3 version is substantially better. 4gb ram and 64 gb storage + micro SSD expansion. I installed Win 10 Pro x64 and it's surprisingly quick for a such a small form factor.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...ute-stick.html

The power adapter is USB-C and has a cool feature built in. 2 full speed USB 3.0 ports located in the power adapter (1 USB 3.0 in the stick itself). Not just for power but full communication back to the stick over the 6 foot USB-C cable.



review covering HTPC capabilities - the Intel HD 515 chipset doesn't have any issues with their playback tests. No issues with full bitstream of ATMOS and DTS-X. It also has Intel's top end wireless radio in it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10447/...36y30-review/5

It's ~$250 without the OS. So far I'm impressed with the overall speed considering it's a full PC ... in a stick.


This would have been science fiction back in the Commodore days.
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post #15375 of 19421 Old 10-29-2016, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Due to lack of time, DIY isn't an option now.
sorry for OT, we have many audio enthusiasts who visit the thread. I had a momentary lapse of judgement and didn't explore some of the relatively easy / low cost DIY options. I have subs in my daily drive that will shake the car next to it, so I have to go big with this HT update.

I have a pair of the Dayton 18" Ultimax + the 4cf knock down cabinets on the way next week. Maybe 4 when done but want to see how I make out with 2.

Any advice on the choice of a 1000w -1200w plate amp vs.the inuke 6000? I know the fans are noisy, may be able to mount it in a remote room. Any PM's on the topic would be appreciated.. thx!

wow these are big..

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post #15376 of 19421 Old 10-29-2016, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
sorry for OT, we have many audio enthusiasts who visit the thread. I had a momentary lapse of judgement and didn't explore some of the relatively easy / low cost DIY options. I have subs in my daily drive that will shake the car next to it, so I have to go big with this HT update.

I have a pair of the Dayton 18" Ultimax + the 4cf knock down cabinets on the way next week. Maybe 4 when done but want to see how I make out with 2.

Any advice on the choice of a 1000w -1200w plate amp vs.the inuke 6000? I know the fans are noisy, may be able to mount it in a remote room. Any PM's on the topic would be appreciated.. thx!

wow these are big..

I changed the fan in the inuke 1000 i have alot better than factory one
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post #15377 of 19421 Old 10-29-2016, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
sorry for OT, we have many audio enthusiasts who visit the thread. I had a momentary lapse of judgement and didn't explore some of the relatively easy / low cost DIY options. I have subs in my daily drive that will shake the car next to it, so I have to go big with this HT update.

I have a pair of the Dayton 18" Ultimax + the 4cf knock down cabinets on the way next week. Maybe 4 when done but want to see how I make out with 2.

Any advice on the choice of a 1000w -1200w plate amp vs.the inuke 6000? I know the fans are noisy, may be able to mount it in a remote room. Any PM's on the topic would be appreciated.. thx!

wow these are big..
Hey Jason,

Go for the iNuke6000.

Those drivers have enough extension to eat 2000w per driver, so go big and be done with it, You want to have that head room left over for cleaner distortion free sound, you don't want to use a plate amp which will be running hot almost full power output and close to clipping to hit reference level.

Plate amps also do heat up since there is no airflow in the back of a sub cab, more to fail, all that turbulence in such a close proximity, I would keep the amp well away from the subs IMO. Run a few Speakon sub cables from your iNuke to the cabinets and you are done, far easier than installing a plate amp in each box and far cheaper too...

Go for the DSP version and you can perfectly calibrate the sub, integration is key here.

The iNukes are noisy so just get some whisper quiet fans and do the fan mod and you should be good. People also spray painted them black, I will do this myself in the next couple of months.
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Also you might consider running 2x Ultimax subs, and if you want some more mid-bass chest slam go for 2x Dayton PA460 drivers (~$90 each), they have FAR better midrange slam than the ultimax's do.... the Ultimax is more a super ULF driver, if you want to be literally kicked in the chest during movies you need more mid-bass 40-100hz which the PA460's are currently king at doing.

Ported for those particular drivers is better, but sealed will do if you cant be assed building a ported design.




http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oofer--295-036

Here is the build thread, you can power EIGHT of these with an iNuke 3000 since each one only needs 350 watts due to being SUPER high efficiency:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...gn-thread.html
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post #15379 of 19421 Old 10-30-2016, 03:38 PM
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Does any know much about the digital projection dvision 30 im looking for a replacement to benq w7000 (just for sports)
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post #15380 of 19421 Old 10-31-2016, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Hey Jason,

Go for the iNuke6000.

Those drivers have enough extension to eat 2000w per driver, so go big and be done with it, You want to have that head room left over for cleaner distortion free sound, you don't want to use a plate amp which will be running hot almost full power output and close to clipping to hit reference level.

Plate amps also do heat up since there is no airflow in the back of a sub cab, more to fail, all that turbulence in such a close proximity, I would keep the amp well away from the subs IMO. Run a few Speakon sub cables from your iNuke to the cabinets and you are done, far easier than installing a plate amp in each box and far cheaper too...

Go for the DSP version and you can perfectly calibrate the sub, integration is key here.

The iNukes are noisy so just get some whisper quiet fans and do the fan mod and you should be good. People also spray painted them black, I will do this myself in the next couple of months.
I agree if getting the 600, he should get the DSP version, if Zoombie does not have something like a 2x4 MiniDSP. Something to keep in mind the 6000 does not have a 12 volt trigger, so you will either need to manually turn the amp on or build some type of trigger. I would not pair the 6000 with a voltage sensing power strip.
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I agree if getting the 600, he should get the DSP version, if Zoombie does not have something like a 2x4 MiniDSP. Something to keep in mind the 6000 does not have a 12 volt trigger, so you will either need to manually turn the amp on or build some type of trigger. I would not pair the 6000 with a voltage sensing power strip.
I use a switch that works with smartthings to turn it on and off
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post #15382 of 19421 Old 10-31-2016, 09:46 AM
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I use a switch that works with smartthings to turn it on and off
Link to what you are using?
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Link to what you are using?
Aeon Labs DSC06106-ZWUS - Z-Wave Smart Energy Switch posting link didnt seem to work sorry i had to use adapter also was causing ground loop at first
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Link to what you are using?
I'm using a Panamax M5400 with switched outlets (triggered by my Marantz AV7702mkii) to power my Crown XLS1500's as well as an iNuke6000DSP that I use for my dual DIY Dayton Ultimax 18's. The one downside of the DSP model though is the power down thud (but you can mod the switch or get used to it like I did...eventually anyway).
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post #15385 of 19421 Old 10-31-2016, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
I'm using a Panamax M5400 with switched outlets (triggered by my Marantz AV7702mkii) to power my Crown XLS1500's as well as an iNuke6000DSP that I use for my dual DIY Dayton Ultimax 18's. The one downside of the DSP model though is the power down thud (but you can mod the switch or get used to it like I did...eventually anyway).
I don't know if it is your DSP. Maybe it is the MKII not muting the low-end before power off. That is, I get a power on thud with the MKII if my subs are on when I turn on the MKII and one on off if I don't shut down my subs first.
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post #15386 of 19421 Old 11-01-2016, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
I'm using a Panamax M5400 with switched outlets (triggered by my Marantz AV7702mkii) to power my Crown XLS1500's as well as an iNuke6000DSP that I use for my dual DIY Dayton Ultimax 18's. The one downside of the DSP model though is the power down thud (but you can mod the switch or get used to it like I did...eventually anyway).
The Panamax 5400 is 15 amp. If you are running a 6000DSP and two XLS1500, when pushed, those three together easily exceed 15 amps.
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post #15387 of 19421 Old 11-03-2016, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
I don't know if it is your DSP. Maybe it is the MKII not muting the low-end before power off. That is, I get a power on thud with the MKII if my subs are on when I turn on the MKII and one on off if I don't shut down my subs first.
It's definitely the DSP model of the iNuke. There's entire threads dedicated to modding them to eliminate the power down thud that results from cutting power to the amp rather than using the switch on the front.
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post #15388 of 19421 Old 11-03-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The Panamax 5400 is 15 amp. If you are running a 6000DSP and two XLS1500, when pushed, those three together easily exceed 15 amps.
Yeah, I even have it plugged into a 20 amp dedicated circuit AND I'm running 5 XLS1500's using 9 channels in addition to the iNuke. I rarely watch anything over -7 and it has never tripped. In fact, I ran dual 20A circuits for this purpose but haven't had a need to use both. Transient peaks likely exceed 15A but nothing is ever sustained long enough to be an issue in my experience. @Stoked21 turned me onto the Panamax and he's a EE...go figure!
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post #15389 of 19421 Old 11-03-2016, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Yeah, I even have it plugged into a 20 amp dedicated circuit AND I'm running 5 XLS1500's using 9 channels in addition to the iNuke. I rarely watch anything over -7 and it has never tripped. In fact, I ran dual 20A circuits for this purpose but haven't had a need to use both. Transient peaks likely exceed 15A but nothing is ever sustained long enough to be an issue in my experience. @Stoked21 turned me onto the Panamax and he's a EE...go figure!
I must be hitting higher transient peaks in my system, because I had to add circuits. I have 3- Inukes, 3-crowns, 1-Brhringer EPH, 1-Nady and 1-Rane. I have six 20 amp circuits now. Before I added the last two 20 amp circuits, I was tripping 20 amp breakers with some of the amps paired on a breaker.

Added
I do sometimes play movies at reference and have big subs, pushing into the single digits.

Corrected the number of circuits for my equipment. Have six, not five.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 11-04-2016 at 11:25 AM.
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post #15390 of 19421 Old 11-03-2016, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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this is going to keep me busy for a while.



I could easily hide 4 of these in the room if I wrap them in velvet.

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