Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 618 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18511 of 19500 Old 01-02-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I been running Kodi/MadVR set full range and the GFX drivers set to limited for years, the GFX driver NEVER resets itself, I have never had a single problem or issue as a result.

Don't fight it, not worth it.
Which drivers are you running? And which version of Windows?

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Strange stuff!! You could try the "madLevelsTweaker" tool shipping with madVR. Does that help?
I can't tell, does that run in the background and keep the specified monitor set to 0-255, or does it have to be run each time? Because I've got a setting in the nVidia CP for Dynamic Range. It's not a problem to set it to the "right" setting. The problem it it doesn't stick, it gets reset all the time. Unless there's a way to run the tweaker and have it silently reset the levels whenever madVR changes resolutions?

Oh, and while I've got you here, I have madVR set to switch display modes, which it does great, but I have "restore original display mode..." unchecked/disabled, but madVR is still restoring the display mode when playback ends. 99% of my content is 24p, so I was hoping I could have it set to "fix" the display mode for example if Windows decided it wanted to be 60Hz on boot), but then leave it alone after playback.
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post #18512 of 19500 Old 01-02-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I can't tell, does that run in the background and keep the specified monitor set to 0-255, or does it have to be run each time? Because I've got a setting in the nVidia CP for Dynamic Range. It's not a problem to set it to the "right" setting. The problem it it doesn't stick, it gets reset all the time. Unless there's a way to run the tweaker and have it silently reset the levels whenever madVR changes resolutions?
The tweaker sets a "secret" registry value which is supposed to force the NV driver to do 0-255. It's supposed to survive reboots and anything (except maybe a driver reinstall, not sure). You need to reboot after you use madLevelsTweaker, though, to make the registry value become active.

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Oh, and while I've got you here, I have madVR set to switch display modes, which it does great, but I have "restore original display mode..." unchecked/disabled, but madVR is still restoring the display mode when playback ends. 99% of my content is 24p, so I was hoping I could have it set to "fix" the display mode for example if Windows decided it wanted to be 60Hz on boot), but then leave it alone after playback.
In theory madVR should not restore the display mode, if you don't ask it to. I think you're using Kodi/DSPlayer? Is it possible that Kodi/DSPlayer does that? IIRC it has functionality to switch display modes, too. FWIW, Direct3D also likes to switch to a different display mode for fullscreen exclusive mode, and restore the old mode afterwards. But madVR tries to change the actual desktop GPU mode before entering fullscreen exclusive mode, so the new mode should actually be what D3D later restores to. So basically I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to work for you, it should (unless Kodi/DSPlayer is reponsible for the trouble). Might make sense to double check with MPC-HC, just to make sure it's not media player related.
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post #18513 of 19500 Old 01-02-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The tweaker sets a "secret" registry value which is supposed to force the NV driver to do 0-255. It's supposed to survive reboots and anything (except maybe a driver reinstall, not sure). You need to reboot after you use madLevelsTweaker, though, to make the registry value become active.
Cool, I'll give it a shot.

Quote:
In theory madVR should not restore the display mode, if you don't ask it to. I think you're using Kodi/DSPlayer? Is it possible that Kodi/DSPlayer does that? IIRC it has functionality to switch display modes, too. FWIW, Direct3D also likes to switch to a different display mode for fullscreen exclusive mode, and restore the old mode afterwards. But madVR tries to change the actual desktop GPU mode before entering fullscreen exclusive mode, so the new mode should actually be what D3D later restores to. So basically I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to work for you, it should (unless Kodi/DSPlayer is reponsible for the trouble). Might make sense to double check with MPC-HC, just to make sure it's not media player related.
I don't think it's DSPlayer, because if I change the madVR config to not change refresh rate, nothing changes on start or stop. But I'll have to give MPC a shot and see what happens.
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post #18514 of 19500 Old 01-02-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Strange stuff!! You could try the "madLevelsTweaker" tool shipping with madVR. Does that help?





You may get some banding problems this way. Or maybe not. The results can vary, depending on GPU model/manufacturer, maybe even on driver version.



I'd recommend that you double check if you have any banding problems by doing this test:



1) Use a 32bit player (just for testing), e.g. MPC-HC. Must be 32bit because "madTestPatternSource" doesn't support 64bit yet.

2) Download and register/install "madTestPatternSource" (http://madshi.net/madTestPatternSource.zip).

3) Play "smallramp.ytp".



The "smallramp.ytp" is actually a (perfect) 8bit grayramp. However, it's very small sized and by upscaling it to screen resolution (with a proper upscaling algo), you'll get more than 12bit bitdepth. In MPC-HC simply choose "right click -> Video Frame -> Stretch to Window". This ramp should be *perfectly* smooth. You should not see any visible steps or blobs or anything. If this test image looks perfect for you when upscaled to screen resolution, then there's probably no need to worry. If you want to see how 8bit banding looks like, as a reference point, simply disable dithering in madVR and switch madVR to 8bit output (see display properties).



There are 2 different kind of potential banding problems: The simple 8bit banding shows as faint very dense vertical stripes/steps covering the whole grayscale (one stripe every 8 pixels or so). You may have to put your nose to the screen to see this one very clearly. Then there's a more "global" banding artifact which makes the whole grayscale look slightly uneven or clumped together in some grayscale areas. Of course we want neither of these 2 problems; the grayscale should be absolutely smooth and perfect.

I tested a whole bunch of greyscale, radial and quantisation patterns yesterday from the masciola suite in full range vs limited setups in nvidia and madvr settings and also compared them to my
UB900 and saw same image and no issues with one vs the other so I think im good.

I don’t use mpchc so couldn’t get your patterns working sorry. I use Kodi DSPlayer.

I have occasionally seen slight hdr banding through madvr in the past but I haven’t been able to recreate it in patterns and have not checked those scenes again in full range. Will give that a shot. But some HDR has banding in the source anyway which I have confirmed. Such as Transformers 5.

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post #18515 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 03:06 AM
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I'm in Orlando this week and saw Last Jedi at the IMAX. Massive screen, sound was excellent 9/10, 3D presentation was completely ruined by a Cinema DLP projector. Every time I think I've seen the worst contrast DLP I keep getting surprised by a new level of disappointment.
I wouldn't wait for 3D Blu-ray, we're already having to import, how long until 3D is theatrically only?

Was that room using their 2K IMAX projectors or the new 4K ones? Did the projected image actually fill the screen from left to right?

I saw Force Awakens 3D at the only "true" IMAX theater in Minnesota (which has a big 6+ story tall screen). They jumped the gun and had just recently put in the 2K projectors (even after 4K was announced). They didn't even zoom the projectors out far enough so the movie filled the screen from left to right. There was probably 8 feet of screen on the left and right side of the projected image, coupled with the top and bottom (4:3 screen) it looked utterly ridiculous.

I thought the actual image looked fine though. I often take my father to movies and I audibly heard him say "wow" during that one deep shot of the Star Destroyer in Force Awakens.

I have been consistently happy with 2K IMAX 3D at my nearest AMC. The only time I was disappointed is when I end up in a RealD room there, I genuinely thought my glasses were polarized wrong during Valerian the crosstalk was so bad. I ended up with a huge headache after that movie (for more than one reason).

Since IMAX has started giving us all the shaft on 3D presentations, I recently started going to another theater that has Atmos and a 4K laser projector. They play 3D titles in that room super late (11pm start) on weekdays and the tickets are like $6. Love it.
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post #18516 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 03:59 AM
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I'm in Orlando this week and saw Last Jedi at the IMAX. . . . This presentation was maybe 600:1 native, all low APL scenes were decimated by poor native.
I think there is a problem with the way the Last Jedi was mastered. I saw it in 2D at our local cinema where the black levels are normally fine (in the context of commercial cinema presentations), and I also noticed horrendously raised black floors in many of the dark non-CGI scenes, such as those indoors on the Jedi island etc

i think Scott also noted the same issue in his cinema review:

https://www.avsforum.com/star-wars-la...r-atmos-sound/

Quote:
My one big complaint was the HDR imagery. Outer space—which forms the backdrop in many scenes—was not the inky black I’ve come to expect from Dolby Vision. I noticed this as soon as the movie started, which was immediately after the Dolby Vision sizzle reel that ends with a full-black screen and the words, “Yes, the projector is still on.” That black was beautiful, but as soon as the opening starfield appeared, the black level rose considerably and stayed there throughout. Also, the shadow detail in the many scenes within dark caves was mediocre at best. The brightest highlights seemed pretty bright to me, but that did not assuage my disappointment in the blacks.

After the screening I saw, I ducked into a conventional theater showing Star Wars: The Last Jedi. It looked even worse in terms of black level and shadow detail. I honestly don’t know if the Dolby Cinema version was graded in Dolby Vision or not. It could have been a conventional grade that simply looked somewhat better from the Dolby Vision projectors because of how they operate.
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post #18517 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The tweaker sets a "secret" registry value which is supposed to force the NV driver to do 0-255. It's supposed to survive reboots and anything (except maybe a driver reinstall, not sure). You need to reboot after you use madLevelsTweaker, though, to make the registry value become active.
Yeah, that didn't work, I ended up having to reset back to "full" in madVR because my GTX1060 reverted itself back to limited.

Quote:
In theory madVR should not restore the display mode, if you don't ask it to. I think you're using Kodi/DSPlayer? Is it possible that Kodi/DSPlayer does that? IIRC it has functionality to switch display modes, too. FWIW, Direct3D also likes to switch to a different display mode for fullscreen exclusive mode, and restore the old mode afterwards. But madVR tries to change the actual desktop GPU mode before entering fullscreen exclusive mode, so the new mode should actually be what D3D later restores to. So basically I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to work for you, it should (unless Kodi/DSPlayer is reponsible for the trouble). Might make sense to double check with MPC-HC, just to make sure it's not media player related.
I may play around some more, or I may just make some hotkeys to switch between 24 and 60 manually. After my Vertex update fiasco, I'm not really in the mood to fiddle right now.
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post #18518 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 08:19 AM
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Yeah, that didn't work, I ended up having to reset back to "full" in madVR because my GTX1060 reverted itself back to limited.
Strange. I don't recall any other user reporting an issue like this.

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I may play around some more, or I may just make some hotkeys to switch between 24 and 60 manually. After my Vertex update fiasco, I'm not really in the mood to fiddle right now.
I've just had one more idea: DSPlayer has 2 different ways to handle madVR settings. Is it possible that DSPlayer somehow overwrites your madVR settings in such a way that madVR restores the display mode on playback stop even though your settings don't say so? That's one of the reasons why I asked you to double check this with another media player, just to be safe. BTW, MPC-HC is available as a portable download, IIRC, so it's extremely easy to download and test, without installing anything and without messing up your PC in any way.
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post #18519 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 09:44 AM
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Just spotted this for pre-order on Amazon - probably not news to anyone else here, but I hadn't yet seen it confirmed that it would be the first Star Wars movie to get a UHD release:

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post #18520 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I've just had one more idea: DSPlayer has 2 different ways to handle madVR settings. Is it possible that DSPlayer somehow overwrites your madVR settings in such a way that madVR restores the display mode on playback stop even though your settings don't say so? That's one of the reasons why I asked you to double check this with another media player, just to be safe. BTW, MPC-HC is available as a portable download, IIRC, so it's extremely easy to download and test, without installing anything and without messing up your PC in any way.
I could check, I do have DSPlayer set to not manage settings. And I've got MPC-HC on my desktop, so I'm familiar with it, I'm just tired of fiddling with things. I tired of fiddling with things, I tried the new Vertex beta with the "2.0" JVC macro stuff, and it took me hours over a couple days to get everything reverted back to where it was working before. Time I'd intended to be enjoying movies.

By comparison, my madVR "issues" are barely even annoyances, it wouldn't even bother me other than my OCD
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post #18521 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 10:55 AM
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I'm glad to hear your HTPC related issues are minor compared to other issues. That's a welcome change...
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post #18522 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 11:14 AM
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I used an HTPC for a long time, and was a strong proponent, but Blu-ray/HD-DVD kind of ruined it for me. Back in the DVD days, there were lots of companies/folks who made great software packages for playback, notably the nVidia DVD decoders along with TheaterTek, though I generally just stayed within SageTV where everything was nicely integrated.

And then Blu-ray/HD-DVD came out, and PowerDVD was the only player, and it was an unmitigated disaster. I got a standalone player and was much happier. About the same time SageTV came out with dedicated hardware extenders, which have basically been flawless for like 10 years now. So ever since then I've been using hardware players, so my tolerance for "quirks" has greatly diminished. The other thing is I have pretty high standards for integration, I don't want to be reminded at all that I'm using a PC. If you can tell there's a PC in my system, that's a failure IMO, and it really annoys me. I know there's folks out there content to use Windows Explorer as their media manager and a mouse/keyboard and something like MPC-HC for their player, but that's nowhere near good enough, integrated enough for me. If I can't do it with a remote, that's an automatic non-starter for me.

I still really wish there was a way to use madVR that didn't involve Windows, Open/LibreELEC is the closest I've seen anything "PC" come to an appliance.
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post #18523 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 11:35 AM
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I'd really like something perfectly integrated myself. Maybe we'll get there sooner or later...
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post #18524 of 19500 Old 01-03-2018, 10:23 PM
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Just spotted this for pre-order on Amazon - probably not news to anyone else here, but I hadn't yet seen it confirmed that it would be the first Star Wars movie to get a UHD release:

It's been on best buy site for a couple of weeks, I ordered it in steelbook version a week ago, along with Thor and Justice League.

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post #18525 of 19500 Old 01-04-2018, 10:41 AM
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Just watched American Made -- The Tom Cruise movie about the Iran-Contra affair...
Good movie, and though not perfectly accurate, the main basis of the true story was there.
Nothing particularly special about the PQ or casting, but overall the story was good.

Interesting read to see what was REAL and what was NOT
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/...ican_made.html
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post #18526 of 19500 Old 01-04-2018, 11:34 AM
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Just watched American Made -- The Tom Cruise movie about the Iran-Contra affair...
Good movie, and though not perfectly accurate, the main basis of the true story was there.
Nothing particularly special about the PQ or casting, but overall the story was good.

Interesting read to see what was REAL and what was NOT
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/...ican_made.html
American Made was fantastic! I really like these "based on true events" movies. American Made, The Pirates of Somalia, Jungle, Gold, Sully, Captain Phillips, War Dogs, The Founder, Army of One, Blindspot, Kill the Messenger, The Big Short...all great. I wish it was it's own genre so I could easily search for more...
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post #18527 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I think there is a problem with the way the Last Jedi was mastered. I saw it in 2D at our local cinema where the black levels are normally fine (in the context of commercial cinema presentations), and I also noticed horrendously raised black floors in many of the dark non-CGI scenes, such as those indoors on the Jedi island etc

i think Scott also noted the same issue in his cinema review:

https://www.avsforum.com/star-wars-la...r-atmos-sound/

Thanks for the link, I see Scott mentioned seeing the raised black floor in 2 different theaters. This presentation ruined the movie for me since there are so many low APL scenes, it looked liked a 30-40 IRE field mixed into the scenes.

TFA and Rogue One 3D BD's look excellent on the JVC and even the Sharp 30K 3D DLP (this DLP has a very good DI) so hopefully they will fix this when they are released.

Zavvi has the 3D Steelbook available for pre-order, i'll report in on this topic when it arrives. I'm seeing a 2/28 street date for the release.

https://www.zavvi.com/blu-ray/star-w.../11642793.html
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post #18528 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 11:21 AM
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@Zombie ,

The Zavvi site comes up as UK. Switching to US takes away a lot of the choices. Are you ordering the UK versions to get the 3D versions? And wouldn't they need to be region free unless you patched a player?

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post #18529 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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@Zombie ,

The Zavvi site comes up as UK. Switching to US takes away a lot of the choices. Are you ordering the UK versions to get the 3D versions? And wouldn't they need to be region free unless you patched a player?

Willie
Hi, good question. Yes, if you keep it at UK they will ship to the US no problem. The only 3D title I received from them that was stuck at Region B was Terminator 2 3D and we knew this from all the conversation in the UK forums. all the other 3D titles I purchased were region free or all region.

I would order soon, that 3D steelbook is going to likely sell out soon, especially if there isn't a US 3D release. I imported Rogue One 3D steelbook from them and it was all region. Of course they picked the coolest cover art for the 3D disk..




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post #18530 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 11:49 AM
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Not all UK 3D titles are Region B,

Imported Disney/Touchstone/Marvel/Lucus/Buena Vista/Pixar 3D's are region free.
Some of mine since adding 3D to my JVC (Sept.2016) are The Pirates of the Caribbean (DMTNT) and Cars 3,
I've also Pre-ordered Star Wars TLJ and Thor Ragnarok (all in Steelbooks) from Zavvi.

My first Region B title 3D was Valerian, that was no problem for my modded Oppo.
Most recent UK 3D steelbook purchase from Zavvi that was locked Region B just arrived yesterday, Terminator 2





Going to load it up within the next hour

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post #18531 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 11:56 AM
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I got all my Star Wars Steelbooks from Best Buy in Canada
..including the Rogue One (that came with 3D and 2D)


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post #18532 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Most recent UK 3D steelbook purchase from Zavvi that was locked Region B just arrived yesterday, Terminator 2

Going to load it up within the next hour
My 2nd T2 steelbook arrived, Region B as expected so now 4 copies of T2 3D. post what you think about it after the viewing. I made a region free copy so I can run it on the UB900.




I don't see any postings yet for Last Jedi in 3D in the US but it's a little early so maybe they will announce it later. I didn't want to take a chance so I grabbed the Zavvi 3D steelbook now.
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post #18533 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 12:23 PM
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My 2nd T2 steelbook arrived, Region B as expected so now 4 copies of T2 3D. post what you think about it after the viewing. I made a region free copy so I can run it on the UB900.


I don't see any postings yet for Last Jedi in 3D in the US but it's a little early so maybe they will announce it later. I didn't want to take a chance so I grabbed the Zavvi 3D steelbook now.
I'm pretty sure the Disney group has pulled the plug on 3D for North America right after Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
otherwise I wouldn't have been forced to look over seas for POTC (5) or Cars 3.

BestBuy.ca put up Pre-orders for Star Wars TLJ steelbooks just before Christmas for 4K only,
So I jumped on that pre-order right away, and went to Zavvi for 3D Double Dip.

Thor Ragnarok 3D is only up for pre-order from UK sources as well
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Thor-R...lu-ray/117907/

One of my Favorites so far in 3D is POTC DMTNT
in addition to being the Best looking Steelbook in my collection.





Any scene with Captain Salazar and his crew was just awesome 3D

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Last edited by PioManiac; 01-06-2018 at 12:48 PM.
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post #18534 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
I'm pretty sure the Disney group has pulled the plug on 3D for North America right after Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
otherwise I wouldn't have been forced to look over seas for POTC (5) or Cars 3.
It really stinks. 3D is massively better than 4K on a big screen. Much more impact. I wish all studios sold 3D/4K combo releases for all theatrically 3D movies...

BTW, what are you using for Blu-ray case stands?
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post #18535 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 05:35 PM
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... post what you think about it after the viewing. .
Yup, it's the Real Deal!

I was a little worried at first because my Expand glasses would not sync,
Then my Vertex confirmed it was only getting a 2D signal, double checked I put the right disc in the Oppo.

I guess unlike my previous 3D's this was my first with a 2D menu screen, once it started playing, No problemo!

The opening battle scene was quite impressive.







Lot's of Shot Gun poke-outs


I was waiting for this one...


Same scene I used when I was first planning my room with SketchUp 10 years ago...


Overall I'm Very pleased with the re-master and glad I went with the 3D instead of the 4K/UHD

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post #18536 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 05:40 PM
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It really stinks. 3D is massively better than 4K on a big screen. Much more impact. I wish all studios sold 3D/4K combo releases for all theatrically 3D movies...

BTW, what are you using for Blu-ray case stands?
They're just propped up in my IKEA bookcases,
the Jurassic Park cases came with their own picture frame type prop-up.



(one more bookcase is just around the corner)

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post #18537 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Yup, it's the Real Deal!

I was a little worried at first because my Expand glasses would not sync,
Then my Vertex confirmed it was only getting a 2D signal, double checked I put the right disc in the Oppo.

I guess unlike my previous 3D's this was my first with a 2D menu screen, once it started playing, No problemo!

The opening battle scene was quite impressive.

Lot's of Shot Gun poke-outs

I was waiting for this one...

Same scene I used when I was first planning my room with SketchUp 10 years ago...

Overall I'm Very pleased with the re-master and glad I went with the 3D instead of the 4K/UHD

good to hear you also liked it, I thought they did a great job with the 3D conversion. There was nothing special with the UHD version in comparison.

I picked up an original 27x40 poster, these are hard to find. It's 2 sided so it will work with a light box set up.

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post #18538 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 05:57 PM
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They're just propped up in my IKEA bookcases,
the Jurassic Park cases came with their own picture frame type prop-up.
Oh, I see now. Thanks. I thought maybe you found a stand that has the case right near the shelf. I have metal stands but they're a bit elevated. I don't display cases much anymore and have been, unsuccessfully) trying to consolidate...(144 4K + 780 BD and counting).
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post #18539 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 06:18 PM
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If you're tempted to watch a movie called "the mountain between us", DONT...
It'll be less painful to just shoot yourself.

This is one of the top 10 worst movies ever made...

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post #18540 of 19500 Old 01-06-2018, 06:27 PM
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If you're tempted to watch a movie called "the mountain between us", DONT...
It'll be less painful to just shoot yourself.

This is one of the top 10 worst movies ever made...
\



i was thinking off... there is a bit of a drought of uhd .... and this movie is out next week... so thanks for the headsup

there is also "mother" which i suspect also falls in this category ?

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