Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 645 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19321 of 19419 Old 11-18-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
I heard Optoma may be coming out with an LED, would hope it will be priced like the UHZ65. The benQ versions are bit pricey. But I understand there is less chance of RBE?
Powered lens controls???
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post #19322 of 19419 Old 02-02-2019, 11:13 PM
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seems to have gone quiet this thread, @zombie10k I noted a comment re Salyut-7 in another thread, how did you catch this one ? sounds interesting. on uhd ? it appears to be a german release with german russian language but no english subtitles ?
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Salut...lu-ray/197190/

wondering how you caught this one ? on uhd or blu-ray... I note there is a 3D version too !

I watched first man and intrigued by this one,

ps also look forward to your comparisons with the nx7 once get one hopefully this thread will come alive again....
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post #19323 of 19419 Old 02-02-2019, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
seems to have gone quiet this thread, @zombie10k I noted a comment re Salyut-7 in another thread, how did you catch this one ? sounds interesting. on uhd ? it appears to be a german release with german russian language but no english subtitles ?
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Salut...lu-ray/197190/

wondering how you caught this one ? on uhd or blu-ray... I note there is a 3D version too !

I watched first man and intrigued by this one,

ps also look forward to your comparisons with the nx7 once get one hopefully this thread will come alive again....
@Javs mentioned it a while ago and there's many positive reviews on it.. I picked up the UHD on ebay but it's also avail from amazon germany.

There are english subtitles out there. A quick way to see it is Amazon Prime which also has english subs. definitely worth checking out.

https://www.subtitledb.org/subtitle/salyut-7



We tried a while ago to change the title to general discussion since there are so many different comparison threads and it would be nice to have a thread with general HT / Projector related topic (movie recommendations, video sources / HTPC discussion, etc) like we did here for the last few years.

It couldn't be done since the thread was created before the software changed a while ago. Still one of the highest viewed threads in the 3K forum.

I'll report in once the RS2000 arrives hopefully soon.
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post #19324 of 19419 Old 02-02-2019, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
seems to have gone quiet this thread, @zombie10k I noted a comment re Salyut-7 in another thread, how did you catch this one ? sounds interesting. on uhd ? it appears to be a german release with german russian language but no english subtitles ?

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Salut...lu-ray/197190/



wondering how you caught this one ? on uhd or blu-ray... I note there is a 3D version too !



I watched first man and intrigued by this one,



ps also look forward to your comparisons with the nx7 once get one hopefully this thread will come alive again....
Definitely get the UHD, it's a really fun movie!

Excellent sound and image. GREAT launch and space scenes easily approaches the quality of Gravity just about.

My near field subwoofers genuinely punch me in the back with this film.
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post #19325 of 19419 Old 02-03-2019, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
@Javs mentioned it a while ago and there's many positive reviews on it.. I picked up the UHD on ebay but it's also avail from amazon germany.

There are english subtitles out there. A quick way to see it is Amazon Prime which also has english subs. definitely worth checking out.

https://www.subtitledb.org/subtitle/salyut-7



We tried a while ago to change the title to general discussion since there are so many different comparison threads and it would be nice to have a thread with general HT / Projector related topic (movie recommendations, video sources / HTPC discussion, etc) like we did here for the last few years.

It couldn't be done since the thread was created before the software changed a while ago. Still one of the highest viewed threads in the 3K forum.

I'll report in once the RS2000 arrives hopefully soon.
thank you zombie.... we do have amazon prime so will check out for sure

hey who cares on thread titles... keep it going zombie. this is a great thread... let it not sink into the abyss..... look forward to the rs2000 comparisons

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Definitely get the UHD, it's a really fun movie!

Excellent sound and image. GREAT launch and space scenes easily approaches the quality of Gravity just about.

My near field subwoofers genuinely punch me in the back with this film.
good to hear javs.... the disc sounds a treat... I'll seek out... my wife could translate the russian on the run for me I guess ... but is it available with english subtitles from some place ?
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post #19326 of 19419 Old 02-03-2019, 09:31 AM
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Zombie,

When can we expect a review of the NX7 or NX9 from you? I am really looking forward to you putting one or both in the context of the other projectors you own. I frankly only trust your reviews because you don't color your reviews with hyperbole. You are always very unbiased in your appraisal and you also seem to consider value for your money into the equation as well. All of that said, I expect the new projectors to be a considerable leap forward.

Really looking forward to your thoughts...

Best,

John
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post #19327 of 19419 Old 02-04-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin Morgan View Post
Right with you guys. Have test-viewed a variety of single-chip DLP projectors over the years at various dealers. I can't watch a DLP for any length of time because the nonstop rainbows drive me nuts. Eventually I get a splitting headache.
I saw a BenQ HT2050 and the rainbows were insane for me. I could never deal with something like that. Interestingly enough, I never saw a rainbow once on those older Samsung DLP RPTVs from the 2000s.
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post #19328 of 19419 Old 02-04-2019, 04:26 PM
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I saw a BenQ HT2050 and the rainbows were insane for me. I could never deal with something like that. Interestingly enough, I never saw a rainbow once on those older Samsung DLP RPTVs from the 2000s.

David, there are some DLP's with virtually no RBE. But for some reason they're becoming more rare. IDK why... maybe manufacturers being lazy in the design, cut costs for more profit, trade off of RBE for more light output?



I had the Sharp XV-Z30000. Never once saw any RBE. I believe Jason still has this one. Maybe he can chime in on other models to look for.

@zombie10k


I'm interested in the new BenQs: Laser version LK990 and LED version HT9060. They look like they have potential to be great projectors... just maybe lacking in the Black Level department. Still waiting on reviews for them to see.
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post #19329 of 19419 Old 02-05-2019, 06:24 AM
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I think more light output can make RBE more visible, so that could be the main reason.

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Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #19330 of 19419 Old 02-05-2019, 09:28 AM
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After reading the thread on HT9060 vs. Lk990, it seems as they have removed any signs of RBE from these 2 projectors. I have NOT seen these for myself but I am very seriously considering the HT9060 for purchase.


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post #19331 of 19419 Old 02-05-2019, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
David, there are some DLP's with virtually no RBE. But for some reason they're becoming more rare. IDK why... maybe manufacturers being lazy in the design, cut costs for more profit, trade off of RBE for more light output?

I had the Sharp XV-Z30000. Never once saw any RBE. I believe Jason still has this one. Maybe he can chime in on other models to look for.

@zombie10k

I'm interested in the new BenQs: Laser version LK990 and LED version HT9060. They look like they have potential to be great projectors... just maybe lacking in the Black Level department. Still waiting on reviews for them to see.
I still have the 30K and use it all the time for TV & 3D. it's very good with RBE and i'm definitely sensitive to it.

I believe @Kris Deering is getting the 9060. He was very transparent with the issues on the 9050 and would be interesting to hear his take on the 9060.

2 concerns i'd have - How do they perform in low -> very low APL scenes. A velvet room is torture on projectors with low native. are the dimming algos really convincing, etc. Kris has a blacked out room.

the other is no user firmware updates. so every time they update, pack it up and ship it out, risking potential damage in transit. That is crazy in 2019. I know the conversation is that TI is responsible for this but it would have been good if BenQ worked this out somehow at these price points.
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post #19332 of 19419 Old 02-05-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I still have the 30K and use it all the time for TV & 3D. it's very good with RBE and i'm definitely sensitive to it.

I believe @Kris Deering is getting the 9060. He was very transparent with the issues on the 9050 and would be interesting to hear his take on the 9060.

2 concerns i'd have - How do they perform in low -> very low APL scenes. A velvet room is torture on projectors with low native. are the dimming algos really convincing, etc. Kris has a blacked out room.

the other is no user firmware updates. so every time they update, pack it up and ship it out, risking potential damage in transit. That is crazy in 2019. I know the conversation is that TI is responsible for this but it would have been good if BenQ worked this out somehow at these price points.

I wouldn't expect any of the new DLP's to have great black floors. But they need decent ones.



That no user upgrade-able f/w may be a deal breaker. I agree, it's ridiculous in 2019 to not have that.



Also no motorized lens system at this price point is kinda foolish.



I'll have to keep an eye out for Kris' review. Do you know where he plans to post it? On AVS? Somewhere else?
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post #19333 of 19419 Old 02-05-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
I wouldn't expect any of the new DLP's to have great black floors. But they need decent ones.

That no user upgrade-able f/w may be a deal breaker. I agree, it's ridiculous in 2019 to not have that.

Also no motorized lens system at this price point is kinda foolish.

I'll have to keep an eye out for Kris' review. Do you know where he plans to post it? On AVS? Somewhere else?
His articles are published at the link below, I'm sure he'll also provide feedback in the forum once he gets it.

https://www.soundandvision.com/writer/12762
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post #19334 of 19419 Old 02-05-2019, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
His articles are published at the link below, I'm sure he'll also provide feedback in the forum once he gets it.

https://www.soundandvision.com/writer/12762
Good link!

Kris's reviews:
BenQ HT9050 4K DLP Projector
Performance 2.5
Features 2
Ergonomics 2.5
Value 1
Plus: Great optics, Accurate color adjustment via CMS, Long-life LED light engine.
Minus: Lack of key features, Disappointing contrast performance, No HDR support.

Doesn't sound good for $8,999 priced DLP projector. And I wouldn't expect any of the other DLP's to be ground breaking. Rob

Sony VPL-VW885ES LCOS Projector
Performance 4
Features 4
Ergonomics 4
Value 3
Plus: True 4K, HDR support, including HLG, Laser light engine.
Minus: Middling dynamic contrast, Limited HDR adjustments.

I'd expect more from a $25,000 Laser projector. Rob

JVC DLA-RS4500 D-ILA Laser Projector
2D Performance 4.5
3D Performance 4.5
Features 5
Ergonomics 4.5
Value 4
Plus:True 4K, Improved HDR support, Reference-quality optics.
Minus: Fan noise can be intrusive, HDMI sluggish, Native contrast not quite on par with the rest of JVC line.

What I would expect from a $35,000 projector. Rob

Look forward to your's and Seeg's reviews.
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post #19335 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 08:42 AM
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For 3D fans -- in the past I've been somewhat critical of Epson's 3D playback (crosstalk). I recently discovered that doing the counter intuitive thing and increasing depth (in the 3D menu) to +2 got rid of a lot of the background "ghosting" I was seeing and making me cringe. Why? I have no idea. The Epson is now in my good books and is pretty much equivalent to my JVC when it comes to 3D -- I just love the laser!

I just wish JVC offered their e-shift projector with a laser at a reasonable price like Epson -- I'd buy one.

(I had a problem with the mechanical lens cover on the Epson and Epson replaced the projector within 24 hours with one with better convergence. Made me feel like a somebody. Hats off to Epson . -- luckily I had another month or so left on my 3 year warranty coverage.)

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post #19336 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 09:05 AM
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For 3D fans -- in the past I've been somewhat critical of Epson's 3D playback (crosstalk). I recently discovered that doing the counter intuitive thing and increasing depth (in the 3D menu) to +2 got rid of a lot of the background "ghosting" I was seeing and making me cringe. Why? I have no idea. The Epson is now in my good books and is pretty much equivalent to my JVC when it comes to 3D -- I just love the laser!

I just wish JVC offered their e-shift projector with a laser at a reasonable price like Epson -- I'd buy one.

(I had a problem with the mechanical lens cover on the Epson and Epson replaced the projector within 24 hours with one with better convergence. Made me feel like a somebody. Hats off to Epson . -- luckily I had another month or so left on my 3 year warranty coverage.)
Agreed. I think going 4K was done simply because marketing 4K works better than laser. Imagine an eshift JVC with laser dimming that is better than the DI, a potentially cleaner image (may or may not remove the added JVC image noise) but definitely more stable, and with full fade to black. Would have been a killer combination IMHO. If Epson can add a laser at the price point they did, I'm sure JVC could - they already have lasers in the eshift chassis in the simulation market (but with lower contrast and it sounds like a jet plane).

I saw an N5 and it was nothing special IMHO - fully calibrated alongside an Epson 9300 it had similar black levels and wasn't a great deal better overall. One guy with an N5 on preorder saw an LS10000 right after, and cancelled his N5. He now has an LS10000 with a Vertex and a Panasonic 820. He even prefers the HDR that the LS gives.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #19337 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 11:48 AM
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It was the right move by JVC from a marketing standpoint. Most people are more excited about true 4k than contrast, etc... I've been a little frustrated about it ever since the new JVC line was announced. Although at the same time it's doing a good job of keeping me from getting upgrade-itis. My RS540 is looking really good with it's high on/off contrast. For the same money, all I could buy is an N5 if I wanted a new model. That would be a downgrade IMO.

But you can see how well the marketing works even on this forum. The new models are all the rage despite the RS540 being $4k MSRP now.
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post #19338 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 01:10 PM
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Agreed. I think going 4K was done simply because marketing 4K works better than laser. Imagine an eshift JVC with laser dimming that is better than the DI, a potentially cleaner image (may or may not remove the added JVC image noise) but definitely more stable, and with full fade to black. Would have been a killer combination IMHO. If Epson can add a laser at the price point they did, I'm sure JVC could - they already have lasers in the eshift chassis in the simulation market (but with lower contrast and it sounds like a jet plane).

I saw an N5 and it was nothing special IMHO - fully calibrated alongside an Epson 9300 it had similar black levels and wasn't a great deal better overall. One guy with an N5 on preorder saw an LS10000 right after, and cancelled his N5. He now has an LS10000 with a Vertex and a Panasonic 820. He even prefers the HDR that the LS gives.
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It was the right move by JVC from a marketing standpoint. Most people are more excited about true 4k than contrast, etc... I've been a little frustrated about it ever since the new JVC line was announced. Although at the same time it's doing a good job of keeping me from getting upgrade-itis. My RS540 is looking really good with it's high on/off contrast. For the same money, all I could buy is an N5 if I wanted a new model. That would be a downgrade IMO.

But you can see how well the marketing works even on this forum. The new models are all the rage despite the RS540 being $4k MSRP now.
I currently own the X790 and was able to get a demo of the NX9 this week on a 148" Stewart Snowmatte Scope Screen and let me tell you it didn't disappoint.

Is the X790 the best bang for your buck? You better believe it, I don't think anything comes close at this price point!

Is the NX9 far superior to the X790? In my opinion it certainly is but it should be considering it costs 4X as much. It is the best picture I have ever seen thrown by a projector! Everything about the NX9 gives a smoother, cleaner, deeper picture then what the X790 can throw.

I would love a 4K laser projector but that's not in my price range. However, I would take a 4K lamp base projector over a E-shift laser projector any day of the week. The extra resolution is priceless in my mind and helps give the picture depth so that it looks like your looking through a window.

People will debate all day long that that 1080p E-Shift is enough but it will never be as good as a true 4K projector. And when 8K is finally available it will trump 4K projectors and so on and so on.
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post #19339 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 02:01 PM
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I currently own the X790 and was able to get a demo of the NX9 this week on a 148" Stewart Snowmatte Scope Screen and let me tell you it didn't disappoint.

Is the X790 the best bang for your buck? You better believe it, I don't think anything comes close at this price point!

Is the NX9 far superior to the X790? In my opinion it certainly is but it should be considering it costs 4X as much. It is the best picture I have ever seen thrown by a projector! Everything about the NX9 gives a smoother, cleaner, deeper picture then what the X790 can throw.

I would love a 4K laser projector but that's not in my price range. However, I would take a 4K lamp base projector over a E-shift laser projector any day of the week. The extra resolution is priceless in my mind and helps give the picture depth so that it looks like your looking through a window.

People will debate all day long that that 1080p E-Shift is enough but it will never be as good as a true 4K projector. And when 8K is finally available it will trump 4K projectors and so on and so on.
It really depends on your width to distance ratio. You'd have to sit really really close to make 8k a worthwhile upgrade (and have true 8k material to view).

I guess I just hate to see the technology go backwards in contrast for a very small improvement in sharpness. I suspect a lot of that image improvement you see in the NX9 comes from the superior lens and improved DI, not the 4k chip.

What I want is more contrast and more light output for HDR. HDR and WCG are where the biggest improvements come from in UHD IMO.
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post #19340 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I currently own the X790 and was able to get a demo of the NX9 this week on a 148" Stewart Snowmatte Scope Screen and let me tell you it didn't disappoint.

Is the X790 the best bang for your buck? You better believe it, I don't think anything comes close at this price point!

Is the NX9 far superior to the X790? In my opinion it certainly is but it should be considering it costs 4X as much. It is the best picture I have ever seen thrown by a projector! Everything about the NX9 gives a smoother, cleaner, deeper picture then what the X790 can throw.

I would love a 4K laser projector but that's not in my price range. However, I would take a 4K lamp base projector over a E-shift laser projector any day of the week. The extra resolution is priceless in my mind and helps give the picture depth so that it looks like your looking through a window.

People will debate all day long that that 1080p E-Shift is enough but it will never be as good as a true 4K projector. And when 8K is finally available it will trump 4K projectors and so on and so on.
It really depends on your width to distance ratio. You'd have to sit really really close to make 8k a worthwhile upgrade (and have true 8k material to view).

I guess I just hate to see the technology go backwards in contrast for a very small improvement in sharpness. I suspect a lot of that image improvement you see in the NX9 comes from the superior lens and improved DI, not the 4k chip.

What I want is more contrast and more light output for HDR. HDR and WCG are where the biggest improvements come from in UHD IMO.
Sometime I think we all get caught up on the numbers and we need to step back and take a look at the overall picture.

Most reviews I have read about the new models are talking about how great they look. Don’t think I’ve heard to many people saying the contrast is really bad.

The NX9 I saw was lighting up a 148” wide scope screen on a Stewart Snowmatte screen with ease. Not many people will need much more light output than that.
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post #19341 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 03:07 PM
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Sometime I think we all get caught up on the numbers and we need to step back and take a look at the overall picture.

Most reviews I have read about the new models are talking about how great they look. Don’t think I’ve heard to many people saying the contrast is really bad.

The NX9 I saw was lighting up a 148” wide scope screen on a Stewart Snowmatte screen with ease. Not many people will need much more light output than that.
It won't have much over 20fl in high lamp with a brand new bulb with that screen. Way too low for HDR once the lamp ages some. You're proving my point with that example. :-)
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post #19342 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 04:30 PM
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People will debate all day long that that 1080p E-Shift is enough but it will never be as good as a true 4K projector. And when 8K is finally available it will trump 4K projectors and so on and so on.
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
It really depends on your width to distance ratio. You'd have to sit really really close to make 8k a worthwhile upgrade (and have true 8k material to view).
Yea, I don't think 8K is going to trump 4K for most people. I sit 7 feet from a 135" and I'm probably in the range to start seeing 8K vs 4K (in test screens etc), but I doubt I would benefit from it in actual content. Most people sit too far back and won't be able to even notice 8K let alone benefit from it.

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post #19343 of 19419 Old 02-10-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Yea, I don't think 8K is going to trump 4K for most people. I sit 7 feet from a 135" and I'm probably in the range to start seeing 8K vs 4K (in test screens etc), but I doubt I would benefit from it in actual content. Most people sit too far back and won't be able to even notice 8K let alone benefit from it.
8K vs 4K???
Heck, we sit 17 feet from a 125" screen and I'm wondering if we can see the benefit of 4K??? (from (1080p)
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post #19344 of 19419 Old 02-11-2019, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
It won't have much over 20fl in high lamp with a brand new bulb with that screen. Way too low for HDR once the lamp ages some. You're proving my point with that example. :-)
Guess we need to get longer lasting laser light sources to take over lamps so that we don't have to worry about lamps fading over a quicker period of time
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post #19345 of 19419 Old 02-11-2019, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post
8K vs 4K???
Heck, we sit 17 feet from a 125" screen and I'm wondering if we can see the benefit of 4K??? (from (1080p)
I noticed a big difference moving from a 1080P projector to an E-shift projector and that's not even 4K.

I have never been a big fan of 3D but I do think we will get to a point when these projectors will be so good it will be like your looking through a window. The demo material I saw on the NX9 was very close!
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post #19346 of 19419 Old 02-11-2019, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Yea, I don't think 8K is going to trump 4K for most people. I sit 7 feet from a 135" and I'm probably in the range to start seeing 8K vs 4K (in test screens etc), but I doubt I would benefit from it in actual content. Most people sit too far back and won't be able to even notice 8K let alone benefit from it.
Did you notice a difference when you started watching the 4500 which is a true 4K projector vs your e-shift projector? I know the differences probably aren't huge but it will add a bit more detail to the picture.

I remember back and the day when people had this same argument about 720p vs 1080p. I had a 720p Pioneer Kuro which at the time had amazing black levels and a great picture but was lacking in the resolution versus a 1080p model. I could easily tell the difference between the two.
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post #19347 of 19419 Old 03-19-2019, 09:50 AM
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I don't think i'll ever buy another bulb based PJ so I'll be waiting for a time until a 4k laser JVC is in the 5-7grand range. That is why I tracked down a 2.4 gain screen to give my JVCX500 a much-needed brightness boost. I nearly bought the Optoma UHZ65 but I backed out in the end for worry of RBE. I never saw it on my Benq W7000 but I was reading it was particularly bad on the UHZ so I got spooked.

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post #19348 of 19419 Old 03-19-2019, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
Did you notice a difference when you started watching the 4500 which is a true 4K projector vs your e-shift projector? I know the differences probably aren't huge but it will add a bit more detail to the picture.

I remember back and the day when people had this same argument about 720p vs 1080p. I had a 720p Pioneer Kuro which at the time had amazing black levels and a great picture but was lacking in the resolution versus a 1080p model. I could easily tell the difference between the two.
I did - it's a bit sharper and a bit cleaner looking picture wise than my RS600 was.

Added - and the HDR is even better !
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Last edited by Craig Peer; 03-19-2019 at 12:28 PM.
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post #19349 of 19419 Old 03-19-2019, 12:47 PM
 
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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread

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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
I don't think i'll ever buy another bulb based PJ so I'll be waiting for a time until a 4k laser JVC is in the 5-7grand range. That is why I tracked down a 2.4 gain screen to give my JVCX500 a much-needed brightness boost. I nearly bought the Optoma UHZ65 but I backed out in the end for worry of RBE. I never saw it on my Benq W7000 but I was reading it was particularly bad on the UHZ so I got spooked.

Have you looked into the BenQ LK970 or LK990? It seems to tick all your boxes and be right in your price range with some checking around. Go check out the LK970 Thread here on AVS for all the gory details!
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post #19350 of 19419 Old 03-19-2019, 01:15 PM
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Have you looked into the BenQ LK970 or LK990? It seems to tick all your boxes and be right in your price range with some checking around. Go check out the LK970 Thread here on AVS for all the gory details!
I looked at it, I believe it is closer to 10grand up here eh. Very nice Projector indeed, but I am going to be a few years from upgrading my PJ. The new screen is a mini upgrade and I am concentrating on sound while I wait for the laser PJ market to mature. Took the PJ money and bought some headphones and built a sub, new AVR is next lol. I could use some pointers for calibrating a high gain screen, mainly meter placement, I use Calman and a C6 meter I also have a color box 3d lut.

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