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post #31 of 482 Old 11-23-2012, 03:10 AM
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What??? red ray? why....blu ray is so darn cheap why start the whole circus again. I like BD players sub 100 currently and it looks dazzling as is
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post #32 of 482 Old 11-23-2012, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

It looks like 4K content is coming very very quickly. Sony has made an announcement that content will be available to their 4K flat panel buyers and we hope to those who have purchased or will purchase a 1000ES.
Red has announced the Redray player with a server included and a partner who will supply 4K content. Commplete details are expected on December 30.

Thanks Mark. Any link(s)?

Both Sony and LG have made announcements over the past year about 4K content, 4K bluray etc, but nothing very specific and definitely no timeframe. It would be good news if content was on its way, even in limited quantity to start with.

Edit: do you mean this: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/sony-promises-free-4k-theatrical-films-for-4k-tv-buyers/

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post #33 of 482 Old 11-23-2012, 05:46 AM
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hmm this 4k talk is interesting, but what concerns me is the lack of an HDMI that can support 4K gaming or 4K 3d sources (both require more than the 24p that is the max output of hdmi 1.4 at 4k resolutions). I ALMOST bought a vw1000, but you know how it goes: by the time 4K sources are abundant, prices will be the same as current 1080p prices. Still, i ALMOST got that VW1000... too rich for my blood at this point though:)
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post #34 of 482 Old 11-23-2012, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Thanks Mark. Any link(s)?
Both Sony and LG have made announcements over the past year about 4K content, 4K bluray etc, but nothing very specific and definitely no timeframe. It would be good news if content was on its way, even in limited quantity to start with.
Edit: do you mean this: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/sony-promises-free-4k-theatrical-films-for-4k-tv-buyers/

That will do to explain the Sony. Red is the company that makes high resolution relatively low cost digital movie cameras etc. It sells direct and it has made waves lowering the cost of such equipment dramatically. It has announced a 4K projector and shown prototypes at industry trade shows (not at Cedia because that is a consumer show), It has announced a content delivery system which includes a server and its most recent tease annnouncement said it has partnered with a content provider. The delivery system is called Redray. The players are expected to start shipping imminently. Look for an announcement on the Red site one week from today (next Friday). Edit. Shipments of the Redray player started mid June 2013 and the present new order cost is $1750, only sold by Red direct so %1750 is the street price.
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post #35 of 482 Old 11-24-2012, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

hmm this 4k talk is interesting, but what concerns me is the lack of an HDMI that can support 4K gaming or 4K 3d sources (both require more than the 24p that is the max output of hdmi 1.4 at 4k resolutions). I ALMOST bought a vw1000, but you know how it goes: by the time 4K sources are abundant, prices will be the same as current 1080p prices. Still, i ALMOST got that VW1000... too rich for my blood at this point though:)

There will be a new HDMI standard released in 2013 (1.5 or 2.0), and also a new bluray 4K standard, to address the issues you raise.

Sony said that it will upgrade the hardware of the VW1000 (external box? internal board replacement?) to offer 4K inputs / HDMI 2.0 compatibility, but it remains to be confirmed.

It is one of the weakest points of the existing 4K displays.

It's also the weakest point of the upcoming JVCs with eshift2 as once bluray 4K is released they will not be able to accept a 4K input (unlike Sony, JVC hasn't promised an upgrade, but they are much less expensive).

We'll have to wait until next year to get 4K displays or "faux 4K" displays with proper 4K inputs. Even if the panels/optics are not 4K, we should still see an improvement if 4K content is displayed with eshift-2 (provided that's possible).

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post #36 of 482 Old 11-24-2012, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

That will do to explain the Sony. Red is the company that makes high resolution relatively low cost digital movie cameras etc. It sells direct and it has made waves lowering the cost of such equipment dramatically. It has announced a 4K projector and shown prototypes at industry trade shows (not at Cedia because that is a consumer show), It has announced a content delivery system which includes a server and its most recent tease annnouncement said it has partnered with a content provider. The delivery system is called Redray.T. the players are expected to start shipping imminently.Look for an announcement on the Red site one week from today (next Friday).

Thanks, I have followed the Red products, but the need for a silver screen with their upcoming Laser 3D PJ (and the cost with a lens) leaves me cold.
Redray is great to play footage from one of their excellent pro cameras, but as it's unlikely to be compatible with the upcoming Bluray 4K standard, probably not interesting unless you really have excess money.
I think they have great products for professionals, but not ready for (or even targetting) the home market.
I'll definitely keep an eye on this annoucement though, if it means they are going to offer a way to distribute commercial 4K movies, thanks for the heads up.

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post #37 of 482 Old 11-24-2012, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Ric. You have but to drive 1/2 hour and reach your own conclusions as to RC combined with a Darblet on a 1000ES. I use them both for a net gain iver one alone but there are three huge variables. Exactly where should the two RC sliders (resolution and noise filtering) and the Darbee percentage be set/ Setting the Darblet is fairly obvious although oibservers on my system will differ slightly in setting it. Setting the RC is a crap shoot. The only thing I can do is use vertical and horizontal on off single pixel pattterns to try and make those grids look best and free of artifacts. Those patterns are torture tests but it still is quite arbritary in choosing the best settings.
I note in the 50 threads people emply the mpeq noise reduction as well when using the RC. I never even want to think about combining that. I just don't see any mpeq noise to filter but maybe I should be seeing it and trying to remove it. In any even, the RC really is a more severe screwing with the picture and screws with it in a lot more areas than the Darblet does. I view it as the RC being a large Venn diagram circle and the Darblet as a much smaller one but still overlapping to some significant extent but also standing independently to add a benefit not there with RC alone.

RC appears to do much more fine detail sharpening while the Darbee applies a sharpening that looks more like 'larger radius' sharpening. Thus they're very different and complementary.

The reason some of us like to use the MPEG NR is not actually to reduce MPEG noise, but to just get some more noise reduction in because RC is too aggressive even at 'min' setting and the RC noise filtering doesn't really seem to do much.
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post #38 of 482 Old 11-24-2012, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

RC appears to do much more fine detail sharpening while the Darbee applies a sharpening that looks more like 'larger radius' sharpening. Thus they're very different and complementary.
The reason some of us like to use the MPEG NR is not actually to reduce MPEG noise, but to just get some more noise reduction in because RC is too aggressive even at 'min' setting and the RC noise filtering doesn't really seem to do much.

If you want to see the havoc not precisely setting the noise filter on RC, try putting up some single on/off pixel line patterns. Try both horizontal and vertical. Don't be lazy. If you have a Sony with RC you MUST do this. The patterns are good for setting the resolution and to se the some of the effects, good and bad, and also to see how badly the RC noise filtering can do if miss set.
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post #39 of 482 Old 11-24-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

If you want to see the havoc not precisely setting the noise filter on RC, try putting up some single on/off pixel line patterns. Try both horizontal and vertical. Don't be lazy. If you have a Sony with RC you MUST do this. The patterns are good for setting the resolution and to se the some of the effects, good and bad, and also to see how badly the RC noise filtering can do if miss set.

Haha. Um, I'm anything but lazy when it comes to testing this projector, in case it weren't patently obvious from my previous posts :-P

Which patterns do you speak of? Are they included on the projector?

That 1 pixel text pattern I used to judge focus uniformity is useless for judging RC b/c RC just completely messes up the single pixel text (noise filter: 20, which is generally where I always keep it) & makes it look like crap (i.e. much worse than original). So I was under the impression that patterns are not useful for judging RC.

But maybe this is unique to 1080p RC, since you have the 4k model... I don't know.
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post #40 of 482 Old 02-18-2013, 09:33 PM
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I was told by a Sony rep that the VW1000ES is the first 'digitally-driven (panels)' Sony SXRD projector.

Does anyone know exactly what that means? LCOS itself should be analog at the level of the liquid crystals, unlike DLP which is 'digital' (mirrors simulate on/off) and achieves tones by dithering. So what's a digitally driven panel when the panel is made of liquid crystal arrays? Having 'analog' levels attainable by the orientation of the liquid crystals is actually an advantage of LCD/LCOS over DLP, so I can't imagine they'd make the liquid crystals operate in an on/off manner & then implement dithering, right?

Also, anyone know if the VW-95 replacement will have these 'digitally driven panels'?
Thanks.
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post #41 of 482 Old 02-19-2013, 01:17 AM
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http://www.ronbenmultimedia.com/support/Whats_the_differences_between_analog_LCD_and_digital_LCD.htm

The above link explains the differences in the methodology of panel drivers.

And I have no clue as to how the panels in the 95 successor will be driven. i don't think it makes all that much difference in exactly where the analog to digital conversion takes place but I would suspect if the conversion is done prior to the chip, the chip would be cheaper to manufacture..
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post #42 of 482 Old 02-19-2013, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

http://www.ronbenmultimedia.com/support/Whats_the_differences_between_analog_LCD_and_digital_LCD.htm

The above link explains the differences in the methodology of panel drivers.

And I have no clue as to how the panels in the 95 successor will be driven. i don't think it makes all that much difference in exactly where the analog to digital conversion takes place but I would suspect if the conversion is done prior to the chip, the chip would be cheaper to manufacture..

The link describes the difference for LCD panels not for LCOS panels.
In LCOS the analog and digital methods use totally different modulations. AM for analog and PWM for digital.
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post #43 of 482 Old 02-19-2013, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post

I don't get the excitement around 4k at this point. Native content is still several years away.

according to that logic a 720p projector looks the same as a 1080p projector when watching 1280x720 material.

Good upscaling plus more pixels equals a better viewing experience!
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post #44 of 482 Old 02-19-2013, 05:27 AM
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Mark's calibrated Sony 4K easily provides the best image I have ever seen, and I say this having only seen it with 1080p content.

That's exactly how I feel with mine. And now with 8 seats in my theater I have experimented more with sitting in the front row. I still catch myself at times in awe of just how crisp the image looks. I can't wait to do 4K on it. Maybe the Redray player or Sony will have their servers someday soon....

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post #45 of 482 Old 02-19-2013, 06:33 AM
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Joe. The servers that come with the 84 incher from Sony are digitally locked to the particular panel and won't work with other Sony 84 inch 4K panels or the Sony 4K projectors. The only thing one can get from Sony now if you are a reviewer is the cluged server they use at shows. but it is not at all clear whether the content is all native 4K, the bit length etc etc.

The Redray is still not shipping and Red won't explain the delay or estimate a ship date. Odemax is totally silent, not a word anywhere except that they arrived at Sundance with the flu. They must have completey struck out at sundance because not even a word. Not we had lots of interest from the owners of many 4K shorets etc etc. Nothing.. I do not think we will see anything from them soon

Sony said they would have a server for sale this summer with content availability, maybe it will be like a Theta Bluray player, a dell etc in their box

The PS4 press conference is in NY tommow but there won't be 4K movie content out of that for quite sometime. One needs some method of getting 4K movie content to the PS4..
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post #46 of 482 Old 02-19-2013, 06:47 AM
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Thanks Mark. So much for Redray's claim of shipping end of December. If they take any longer I will just wait for the Sony solution this Summer or Fall.

smile.gif

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post #47 of 482 Old 02-19-2013, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Thanks Mark. So much for Redray's claim of shipping end of December. If they take any longer I will just wait for the Sony solution this Summer or Fall.

smile.gif

My guess is the Redray will ship relatively soon. I am guessing March and it will come preloaded with some content.
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post #48 of 482 Old 02-19-2013, 10:11 AM
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My guess is the Redray will ship relatively soon. I am guessing March and it will come preloaded with some content.

Let's hope so.

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post #49 of 482 Old 06-15-2013, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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post #50 of 482 Old 06-15-2013, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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The VW95ES won't have a successor, I have edit the first post of this thread.
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post #51 of 482 Old 06-15-2013, 04:19 AM
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The VW95ES won't have a successor, I have edit the first post of this thread.

The above links seem to talk about 2 models, if I'm reading the translation right.

Do we have any specs or info about the higher end unit (VW100ES)? The information posted earlier in this thread seems to be for the lowest end replacement unit?
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post #52 of 482 Old 06-15-2013, 05:29 AM
 
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And these rumors are based on what? You have come up with rumors that have not come true before...rolleyes.gif
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post #53 of 482 Old 06-15-2013, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I totally agree with you, maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm right, we will discover it in the nearly future.
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post #54 of 482 Old 06-16-2013, 02:30 AM
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Like many, I'm looking forward to the possibility of a 4k Sony under £10k later this year. Let's hope that they can finalise and implement HDMI 2.0 before then. Time is of course short if that is to happen. I also hope that such a projector will have improved black levels and native contrast over my VW95. I'm already pretty happy in that respect but we could always do with more. The black floor could certainly be deeper. Kraine's speculative specs indicate some improvement in this respect, though I hope that that 200,000:1 won't simply be achieved with a more aggressive dynamic iris. Most of the time I have my iris in a fixed position in any case as I don't like the way dynamic irises mess with gamma.
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post #55 of 482 Old 06-16-2013, 12:56 PM
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So, no successor to the VW95, yet there are 3 models listed.. Is the VW100ES supposed to be the 4K model for under $10k?

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post #56 of 482 Old 06-16-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post

So, no successor to the VW95, yet there are 3 models listed.. Is the VW100ES supposed to be the 4K model for under $10k?

No it is supposed to be the 4K model for 12k with hope of getting it down to 10k.
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post #57 of 482 Old 06-26-2013, 09:43 PM
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If this 100es is real I will finally, finally, finally update my Sony Pearl vpl-vw50 eek.gif
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post #58 of 482 Old 06-26-2013, 10:43 PM
 
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I'm sure it will be nice if it comes to market, but I'm just curious how nice it will be compared to the 1000ES. I couldn't care less about RC or other fancy software processors. As long as it offers "most" of the 1000ES performance I think I may pre-order this bad boy if it truly does come out. I hope it has Display Port so we can display 2160p at 60hz.
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post #59 of 482 Old 06-27-2013, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'm sure it will be nice if it comes to market, but I'm just curious how nice it will be compared to the 1000ES. I couldn't care less about RC or other fancy software processors. As long as it offers "most" of the 1000ES performance I think I may pre-order this bad boy if it truly does come out. I hope it has Display Port so we can display 2160p at 60hz.

It would be nice if it did have displayport. It would be 2160p60 with 10 bits of color. Maybe when the new standard comes out, there would be a converter box or something to get it working with other devices
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post #60 of 482 Old 06-27-2013, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

The above links seem to talk about 2 models, if I'm reading the translation right.

Do we have any specs or info about the higher end unit (VW100ES)? The information posted earlier in this thread seems to be for the lowest end replacement unit?

Bump. Can someone tell me just which pj and specs we are talking about here? Are they doing away with the vw100 and just making the ve50 better, eliminating the need for having a model in between the 50 and 1000?
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