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post #4081 of 6147 Old 09-02-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by madermat View Post
wow coach2369 thats dark looks good if anyone is interested they have some black carpet at menards that is cheap. its in rolls maybe 5x8 . i think someone way back posted about it
Before I did the velvet the black area rugs I have looked SUPER dark to us. Now they have a bit of a gray look..lol

Ultimately, I would like to get a big piece of black carpet cut to put in that spot instead of the area rugs. The area rugs I bought were from Wal-Mart and all four have different dimensions, which makes it a pain the butt to keep lined up properly...
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post #4082 of 6147 Old 09-02-2017, 03:10 PM
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how macgyver would have built velvet masks..

I've been working on a mask project for a while and was highly motivated to finish before the 9/5 release of Bladerunner on UHD.

I have a 142" 16:9 Dalite Cinema Contour with the 2.8HP material. This has a 3" thick frame and is made of aluminum. It took me a while to test the necessary items I'd need to properly secure these to the frame without any damage or visible brackets.

Here is what I did.

The boards are the foam material you can get at Lowes and Depot. Very strong yet fairly lightweight. I used vinyl drywall edging to give them rigidity. These are also very lightweight.




I am using metal tape that is used for duct work to seal the vinyl strips to the foam board.




That red tape in 3M VHB tape. This stuff is no joke, it's extremely strong and 'bonds' after it sits for a bit when applied between 2 clean surfaces. The Royalty 3 velvet is locked to the foam board with this tape.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-595...dp/B01BU7038A/





I sealed it with Gorilla black tape for extra holding.





Now the magic from mother earth that makes this all possible. REALLY STRONG MAGNETS.

https://www.amazon.com/TAQTON-Neodym...dp/B01GG7AXRK/

These are N52 magnets, extremely strong and potentially dangerous when handling.



I stacked 3 magnets behind the screen channel on both sides and also the top and bottom of each respective mask. One issue I ran into was the magnets would slide against the Velvet wrapping of the Cinema Contour screen.

problem solved with a piece of PROTOSTAR material. This give it perfect 'bit' against the velvet.

http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flock.htm




It's takes less a minute per mask, they literally 'snap' into place given the strategic locations I placed the magnets behind the screens frame.

I am beyond thrilled with the results. I can quickly go back and forth between 142" 16:9 and 135" Scope







Time for a celebration for a job well done - adding more velvet is always a good thing.




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post #4083 of 6147 Old 09-02-2017, 07:09 PM
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Your dog is too white!
I need to give him a couple of coats of black paint too, dang reflective dog!
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post #4084 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 08:12 AM
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Thank you! I honestly just got so sick of trying to figure out a good way to attach the velvet to the ceiling that I went ahead and painted. I have ten foot ceilings and they disappear with the lights out during a movie. If you're dealing with an eight foot ceiling the velvet might be more beneficial. I can tell you that nothing beats the velvet for blackness, but I decided to paint the whole room as sort of a "base coat" then add velvet as needed. The Rosco does a great job though once you figure out a good mix ratio. I'm just echoing the advice others have given me here. I'll likely hang velvet along the rh side to match the left but maybe not the whole wall. It's definitely an ongoing project.
I hear you on not wanting to figure out ways of securing the velvet, especially with your 10ft ceilings. Mine are only 8ft and it can be quite an awkward process. I'm much more comfortable with wood though. Last time I painted anything without a spray can was in middle school. My biggest fear is the job turning out streaky.



I added a couple more feet of velvet to the ceiling yesterday (3 ~4ft x 4ft panels). Hanging was a much easier process than the 2 67" panels in front of them, because I could mark all the drill holes while up on the ladder.

I didn't notice a huge difference in black levels, but the contrast has very noticeably improved in colorful scenes. As many people have said you should try to cover at least 4-5ft of the ceiling in front of the screen.


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post #4085 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 01:10 PM
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I have confirmed at Home Depot I can get 1" foam board for slightly cheaper than 1" sound board for my walls. The soundboard is definitely more solid, but what would people recommend? I appreciate any advice. I'm going to wrap them in velvet.
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post #4086 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Feddie View Post
I have confirmed at Home Depot I can get 1" foam board for slightly cheaper than 1" sound board for my walls. The soundboard is definitely more solid, but what would people recommend? I appreciate any advice. I'm going to wrap them in velvet.


Great idea. I never thought of using that stuff. And it is light enough to hang with commercial velcro (also available at HD)
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post #4087 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 02:51 PM
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I recently built some light and sound absorbers, and thought I'd add my experience to this thread.

The house I'm renting has a living room with beige walls, and I've installed a ceiling mounted JVC RS4910 and a Seymour AV retractable AT screen. The image quality is stunning, but I knew the contrast was suffering on high APL scenes. My goal was to fix the most egregious area, which is a large section of bare wall near the screen. Since I can't paint the walls, and I didn't want to just drape velvet over them, I thought I'd kill two birds and build some DIY sound treatment panels and wrap them in velvet.

Since computer graphics is my jam, I thought I'd get a rough idea of the impact these panels would make by doing before and after simulations using raytracing. So I modeled my living room and did a comparison.

(NOTE: these two images are computer graphics! Don't be fooled, like the other folks I've showed these to )

Without panels:



With panels:



The difference in the light hitting the "black" areas of the screen is pretty plain to see, without resorting to subtracting the second image from the first. This is meant to be representational, and not 100% scientific. To get it just right, I'd need to more accurately determine the material properties of both the screen and the wall. But regardless, it was enough to convince me that it would be worth the effort.

It took pretty much a whole weekend to construct the panels, cover them in velvet, and hang them. The panels are basically Roxul stuffed inside 1x4" furring strip frames, and held in with twine and black plastic. Here are some photos of one of the larger panels.

Front side, before being wrapped in velvet:



Back side, before being covered in plastic:



Back side, after being covered in plastic, and with hanger hardware attached. I future proofed them by adding hangers for both portrait and landscape orientations.



I then wrapped all three panels with Syfabrics black velvet, which as others have pointed out, is identical to Joann Royalty 3 (which I used on a previous project). Using steel wire, I was able to hang them all in series from a couple of hooks in an exposed ceiling joist above the wall. They don't quite sit flush on the wall, but close enough.

Here's the actual wall before:



...and with the panels in place:



This location is the sweet spot for being near the screen, and also roughly hitting the first reflection point from the speakers to the MLP.

And the obligatory screen shot, where you can see the panels working hard eating up light on the right side:



The room is still nowhere near being a bat cave, but these panels made a noticeable difference to overall contrast, especially for scenes of around 50% APL. I'm really happy with that outcome, and while I'm calling it done for this room, I'll certainly be carrying on the theme (to more extremes I hope!) in my next room.

Last edited by tebling; 09-03-2017 at 05:01 PM.
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post #4088 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Feddie View Post
I have confirmed at Home Depot I can get 1" foam board for slightly cheaper than 1" sound board for my walls. The soundboard is definitely more solid, but what would people recommend? I appreciate any advice. I'm going to wrap them in velvet.
Do they have the sound board listed online? I put it in the search but I get a wide range of things, a link would be awesome =)
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post #4089 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 05:47 PM
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Do they have the sound board listed online? I put it in the search but I get a wide range of things, a link would be awesome =)
I just searched and I do not see it online.
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post #4090 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 05:56 PM
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I just searched and I do not see it online.
Gotcha, what is the size and price like?
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post #4091 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 08:43 PM
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Gotcha, what is the size and price like?
They were both 1" x 8' x 4'. The foam board was roughly $18.50 and the sound board was around $22.
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post #4092 of 6147 Old 09-03-2017, 08:46 PM
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They were both 1" x 8' x 4'. The foam board was roughly $18.50 and the sound board was around $22.
Thanks for the response, very helpful info =)
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post #4093 of 6147 Old 09-04-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Feddie View Post
I have confirmed at Home Depot I can get 1" foam board for slightly cheaper than 1" sound board for my walls. The soundboard is definitely more solid, but what would people recommend? I appreciate any advice. I'm going to wrap them in velvet.
Our theater was already "finished" when I decided to cover the ceiling and side wall. The ceiling and walls were covered with "knock down" texture. My local building supply store carried 2 versions of 1/2 thick 4x8 sheets of Soundboard (that's a generic term). I chose one that was dark brown, had the store cut the length to 6', then used a utility knife to cut the width to what I needed. To cover the width of my ceiling, I need 4 panels 38 1/2" wide. Allowing for the additional width of the velvet, I subtracted 1/8", making the final size 38 3/8". I cut 3 panels to that width, covered the smooth side with the velvet and secured the 3 panels to the ceiling with drywall screws, 6 per board. The soundboard weighed less than 15lbs per board. After cutting and positioning the first 3 boards, I remeasured the remaining section of wall. A friend who helped me recommended not cutting the 4th panel until the first 3 were in position "because rooms are not always perfectly square". That was good advice. After measuring the remaining space, I cut the 4th panel, hoisted it into place and confirmed the fit. Then we applied the fabric, and fastened it in place.

To secure the velvet to the 4 panels of soundboard, we a used spray adhesive, 3M 76 High Tac https://www.amazon.com/3M-Hi-Tack-76.../dp/B000LDIL3Y It's expensive stuff but really worked well. My friend works for a local tv station and has a lot of experience cutting fabric for sets. He covered the smooth side of the soundboard with the spray, applied the Syfabric Triple Plush Black Velvet, and smoothed out the bubbles, starting from the center and carefully moving to the edges. After all the bubbles were out, we waited 10 minutes (per adhesive instructions), flipped the board over, trimmed the corners of the fabric so it would lay flat and affixed with more spray glue, and waited another 10 minutes. The panels came out perfectly. One note on this adhesive: DO NOT use it on styrofoam. The label says it will "attack" that material.

There are a number of YouTube videos that show how to install drywall on a ceiling. I liked this one in particular:
The key is to build a couple of t-supports out of scrap wood. They support the boards against the ceiling while we did final positioning and drilled in the screws. In my case, I have crown molding, about 3 inches below the ceiling, which holds light strips. When we lifted each panel in place, we used the top of the crown molding as a 'lip' to support an edge while we put the t-supports in place. Even though the drywall screws are black, they still show when you stand directly beneath the panels. Using dark black flat paint and an artists brush, I darkened the screw heads to make them nearly invisible. I decided to 'frame' the 'open' edge of the panels with L-shaped trim, painted black of course, to give it a perfectly finished look.

Between cutting the soundboard, cutting the velvet, spraying the glue, covering and smoothing the velvet, waiting for the glue to dry (about 20 minutes per panel) and securing each panel to the ceiling, the project took a little under 5 hours. I'm 68 years old, and the friend who helped me is 64. You young guys should be able to do it in less time, but don't cut back on the time is takes the glue to cure. The resulting WAF was off the charts and the image improvement was immediately noticeable. I also sensed that the room lost some of it's 'live' sound (a good thing).
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post #4094 of 6147 Old 09-04-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
i've been working on a mask project for a while and was highly motivated to finish before the 9/5 release of bladerunner on uhd.

I have a 142" 16:9 dalite cinema contour with the 2.8hp material. This has a 3" thick frame and is made of aluminum. It took me a while to test the necessary items i'd need to properly secure these to the frame without any damage or visible brackets.

Here is what i did.

The boards are the foam material you can get at lowes and depot. Very strong yet fairly lightweight. I used vinyl drywall edging to give them rigidity. These are also very lightweight.

Spoiler!
Spoiler!


Well done. Quick question: What did you use to attach the magnets to the panels? You've got me motivated to make some side masking panels for my scope screen.
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post #4095 of 6147 Old 09-04-2017, 09:57 AM
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[/spoiler]

Well done. Quick question: What did you use to attach the magnets to the panels? You've got me motivated to make some side masking panels for my scope screen.
Ron, hi I used a strip of the 3M VHB tape and Gorilla glue Gel. I experimented with this first on scrap foam/velvet combo to make sure it would work. The glue melted the 3M tape and the Velvet in a perfect way and locked that magnet to the board.

if you look close you can see the layer of the 3M tape under the magnet. These aren't going anywhere, that tape / glue combo worked out well.




crude layout of where I mounted the magnets on the top panel. 1 magnet on the mask itself but I had 3 magnets stacked at each location behind the screen frame. I have 3 full inches of gap between the magnets so I needed the extra strength of stacking. It worked out great, these really lock into place and have zero concerns of movement once in place.




Richard Dean Anderson would be so proud..
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post #4096 of 6147 Old 09-04-2017, 12:38 PM
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Ron, hi I used a strip of the 3M VHB tape and Gorilla glue Gel. I experimented with this first on scrap foam/velvet combo to make sure it would work. The glue melted the 3M tape and the Velvet in a perfect way and locked that magnet to the board.

if you look close you can see the layer of the 3M tape under the magnet. These aren't going anywhere, that tape / glue combo worked out well.




crude layout of where I mounted the magnets on the top panel. 1 magnet on the mask itself but I had 3 magnets stacked at each location behind the screen frame. I have 3 full inches of gap between the magnets so I needed the extra strength of stacking. It worked out great, these really lock into place and have zero concerns of movement once in place.




Richard Dean Anderson would be so proud..
Really well done. Just after I complete my wife's honey due list (repainting our son's room (with him going off to college) + other items)....this will be on my Ron Due List.

Thanks again for sharing and with great detail on how it was done!
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post #4097 of 6147 Old 09-05-2017, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Ron, hi I used a strip of the 3M VHB tape and Gorilla glue Gel. I experimented with this first on scrap foam/velvet combo to make sure it would work. The glue melted the 3M tape and the Velvet in a perfect way and locked that magnet to the board.

if you look close you can see the layer of the 3M tape under the magnet. These aren't going anywhere, that tape / glue combo worked out well.




crude layout of where I mounted the magnets on the top panel. 1 magnet on the mask itself but I had 3 magnets stacked at each location behind the screen frame. I have 3 full inches of gap between the magnets so I needed the extra strength of stacking. It worked out great, these really lock into place and have zero concerns of movement once in place.




Richard Dean Anderson would be so proud..


There's no way the VHB will come undone, provided it's the correct type for the surface you are sticking to. The modern version can be removed with a heatgun on low or hairdryer.

I used to use the original version to attach miniature tv cameras to race cars, 3M had to supply a less sticky version after the first test version couldn't be removed!

It's used to stick road car bodywork panels together too, stronger than welding they claim.

I like the magnets idea, bit like monitor audio's magnetic speaker grills. I was planning something with duallock industrial velcro but this is a much better idea.
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post #4098 of 6147 Old 09-08-2017, 04:57 PM
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I was in home depot the other day and looked for that sound board over in the insulation and wood area. Didn't find anything labeled that way, but did see this stuff which looked pretty good and was cheap.
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post #4099 of 6147 Old 09-08-2017, 06:23 PM
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I was in home depot the other day and looked for that sound board over in the insulation and wood area. Didn't find anything labeled that way, but did see this stuff which looked pretty good and was cheap.
Here's a link to the SoundBoard sold by Home Depot:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-in-x-...85US/207168829

It is inexpensive, and has some acoustic benefit as well.

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post #4100 of 6147 Old 09-08-2017, 06:27 PM
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Thanks for the link, no wonder I couldn't find it. Not sold within 100 miles of my zip heh.
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post #4101 of 6147 Old 09-08-2017, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feddie View Post
I have confirmed at Home Depot I can get 1" foam board for slightly cheaper than 1" sound board for my walls. The soundboard is definitely more solid, but what would people recommend? I appreciate any advice. I'm going to wrap them in velvet.


Depends on the room.......the soundboard will reduce reflections.....if you have reflection issues it would help. Most rooms have some to a lot.



I imagine the foam board will reflect sound a little more..........


Perhaps soundboard at the side reflection points......and the rear of the room and foam board at the other places......, couple quasi ceiling clouds of sound board could not hurt either.....

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post #4102 of 6147 Old 09-09-2017, 06:26 AM
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The thing I wonder about that is if sound will even pass through the velvet its wrapped in. My velvet panels dont even get close to passing the breathing test (I know thats not scientific, but they seem too thick).
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post #4103 of 6147 Old 09-09-2017, 08:54 PM
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The thing I wonder about that is if sound will even pass through the velvet its wrapped in. My velvet panels dont even get close to passing the breathing test (I know thats not scientific, but they seem too thick).
Generally speaking, I believe velvet does allow sound to pass. A better, and almost equally un-scientific test, is to listen to sounds through the velvet. If you put velvet over your ear, do you still hear something?

I can't recall if it's in this thread or not, but someone posted some REW curves with velvet between mic and speakers, and no velvet for comparison. The velvet did attenuate some frequencies, but it was pretty minor. I'll see if I can dig it up.
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post #4104 of 6147 Old 09-10-2017, 04:50 PM
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Generally speaking, I believe velvet does allow sound to pass. A better, and almost equally un-scientific test, is to listen to sounds through the velvet. If you put velvet over your ear, do you still hear something?

I can't recall if it's in this thread or not, but someone posted some REW curves with velvet between mic and speakers, and no velvet for comparison. The velvet did attenuate some frequencies, but it was pretty minor. I'll see if I can dig it up.
I posted them, no idea where the post is though, i think its in this thread, so search my user name and you will find it.

Velvet does have a pretty bad effect on Audio... I need to use it on my ceiling, and it requires a pretty large Atmos module boost to get through it, and it affects some frequencies worse than others.
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post #4105 of 6147 Old 09-10-2017, 11:02 PM
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I believe he was talking about sound passing thru from the outside in, in reference to absorbtion of reflections.......

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post #4106 of 6147 Old 09-11-2017, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
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I believe he was talking about sound passing thru from the outside in, in reference to absorbtion of reflections.......
Correct, in reference to using sound board to have some absorption while being covered in velvet.
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post #4107 of 6147 Old 09-11-2017, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Nice aesthetically.

But, oh man...all that work to black out around the image while placing two big, white reflective speaker right beside the screen? Seems a tad self-defeating? Any plans for different speakers? (I actually ended up covering mine with custom-cut black velvet. They actually look quite sharp but completely disappear with the lights out and no reflections back to the screen).
Question: I'm considering making two long "sleeves" out of black velvet (like a sock with one open end) that can be easily slipped over each of my front speakers during movie viewing. Will this have any effect on the sound quality from the speakers? I can remove the speaker grills if necessary but I'm just curious whether velvet material used in this way will have any noticeable effect on speaker performance. I shouldn't think so but best to check first...
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post #4108 of 6147 Old 09-11-2017, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonsey View Post
Question: I'm considering making two long "sleeves" out of black velvet (like a sock with one open end) that can be easily slipped over each of my front speakers during movie viewing. Will this have any effect on the sound quality from the speakers? I can remove the speaker grills if necessary but I'm just curious whether velvet material used in this way will have any noticeable effect on speaker performance. I shouldn't think so but best to check first...
For quite a while I also used my L/R speakers in my two channel listening as well. I kept the black velvet cover on them and noticed no change in the sound whatsoever.

I personally don't like seeing speaker drivers and keep my speaker grills on all my speakers. (It helps them disappear in the dark better too).
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post #4109 of 6147 Old 09-11-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonsey View Post
Question: I'm considering making two long "sleeves" out of black velvet (like a sock with one open end) that can be easily slipped over each of my front speakers during movie viewing. Will this have any effect on the sound quality from the speakers? I can remove the speaker grills if necessary but I'm just curious whether velvet material used in this way will have any noticeable effect on speaker performance. I shouldn't think so but best to check first...


Javs posted some measurements about velvet and its affects on sound, it did have an impact. What about a material like spandex? I think that would work much better.


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post #4110 of 6147 Old 09-11-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonsey View Post
Question: I'm considering making two long "sleeves" out of black velvet (like a sock with one open end) that can be easily slipped over each of my front speakers during movie viewing. Will this have any effect on the sound quality from the speakers? I can remove the speaker grills if necessary but I'm just curious whether velvet material used in this way will have any noticeable effect on speaker performance. I shouldn't think so but best to check first...
Black velvet definitely affects the higher frequencies. I suggest using Mellotone premium black speaker cloth from Parts Express. It is very strong, slightly stretchy and passes a very high percentage of the sound. It is what my acoustic engineer, Nyal Mellor, recommended for my baffle wall. I tested it vs. velvet and had my wife move the Mellotone in front of and away from the speaker with no difference in sound. It is definitely not as dark as velvet but it may be black enough.

A few years ago I used black velvet only on the sides of my floor standing speakers before I went to an acoustically transparent screen. That worked perfectly. No need to cover the entire speaker.
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