The Blacker the Theater, The Better the Image - Page 206 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6151 of 6672 Old 05-29-2019, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Gabre View Post
Completelly agree.

Spending 6k on a screen is plain stupid, and if you have a bright room and reflections, you've thrown money to air.

I went that route, after trying grey screen, then ALR screen, went back to white and just velveted walls around screen and thats it now. And I used cheapest velvet arpund, probably aint even velvet lol

If you can see the difference, care about intensely about PQ, and can afford the screen, it is not at all stupid to make such a purchase.
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post #6152 of 6672 Old 05-29-2019, 04:05 AM
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You bought it I would assume?
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post #6153 of 6672 Old 05-29-2019, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by oztheatre View Post
Whatever happened to that nano tube material called Vanta black? Was said to be the blackest material ever made.. And was going into space telescopes from memory.. We should do a group buy lol I'm sure the european space agency will send us some rolls

There is a similar material being sold retail. It doesn't seem to work as advertized. That is a shame becuase it would solve quite a few problems for me.



Here is the link to Amazon:https://www.amazon.com/Stuart-Semple...ustomerReviews
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post #6154 of 6672 Old 05-29-2019, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jaychatbonneau View Post
There is a similar material being sold retail. It doesn't seem to work as advertized. That is a shame becuase it would solve quite a few problems for me.



Here is the link to Amazon:https://www.amazon.com/Stuart-Semple...ustomerReviews
They do have 3.0 now. Supposed to be better than the 2.0.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90300113...st-black-paint

Their kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...world-black-30

And vantablack is a spray paint now, but we can't just pick it up at Amazon.

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post #6155 of 6672 Old 05-29-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dbpaddler View Post
They do have 3.0 now. Supposed to be better than the 2.0.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90300113...st-black-paint

Their kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...world-black-30
it's all marketing hype, their 2.0 paint is a light year away from how black the royalty 3 velvet appears. It's basically the same as the Rosco.

Their advertisements are just an optical illusion, it looks black against a bright white background but is very grey in appearance against a quality black material.

2.0 vs. triple black velvet

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post #6156 of 6672 Old 05-30-2019, 10:54 AM
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I've been blacking out my room after my projector purchase, but I've run into a couple issues that I haven't found a good solution for:

1. What kind of tape or covering would be best suited to cover up the white grid on a drop ceiling? I covered the panels in velvet, but the grid requires a different solution.

2. I have a 2x4 light box with a thin plastic lens on it right in front of the projector. Does anyone have experience with a good tinting or AR coating/panel that could reduce glare from this lens?
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post #6157 of 6672 Old 05-30-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by evanft View Post
1. What kind of tape or covering would be best suited to cover up the white grid on a drop ceiling? I covered the panels in velvet, but the grid requires a different solution.
One option would be the protostar flocking material. They sell them in 1-5/8" wide strips with a backing adhesive. Not as black as velvet but pretty good. The adhesive did not work on my textured walls but maybe it works better on the grid, but if not then you would probably have to glue it.

At my last home for the theater room we just painted the grid flat black and that also seemed to work OK, at least against the non-velvet black ceiling tiles.
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post #6158 of 6672 Old 05-30-2019, 02:49 PM
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Hi all,

I would like to achieve an effect as similar as possible to the one achieved by Anna&Flo in this video
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1692721894385217

They achieved such an amazing result by creating a 3in1 triple black velvet curtains system, which, when pulled, covers simultaneously both the two side walls AND the ceiling. Here's what I mean





Exactly like in the video, I'll be projecting in a room which will be totally darkened through roller shutters.
And, like in the video, I would like to reduce reflections through room optimisation.
To try and achieve a similar result, I came up with the idea to

- paint the ceiling with dark paint for about 2 meters (80inches) from the screen (this would be the color of choice https://www.meinonlinelager.de/capar...cid-48565.html)

and

- install along both side-walls some IKEA Black Tupplur roller blinds for 3-4 metres (120-160 inches) from the screen https://www.ikea.com/it/it/catalog/p...113/#/30349126 . The black Tupplur would be pulled down only when we project - i.e. after the room has been already totally darkened.

1) Do you think I would this way achieve a result similar to Anna&Flo's when I pull down the 2-4m of Black Tupplur on both sides of the screen? Do the Tupplur have absorbing properties ?

2) My VPR is a BenQ W2000 and it is installed on the ceiling at 3m of distance from the Cinegrey.

My room is 7m long and I sit 3.5m away from the screen. How many meters should the the curtains/blinds cover ? Will 3m be enough or do I need to cover more since I sit at 3.5m? How many total meters of triple black velvet curtain (to cover both side walls plus the ceiling) or IKEA Tupplur blinds (to cover only the side walls) should I purchase ?

3) I have noticed that even when Anna&Flo’s triple curtain is fully opened when being used, the top curtain is floggy and hanging (it is not tense/straight). can anyone think of any reason why Anna&Flo would not install it in such a way that it would be straight once it is open and being used ?

4) how many CM/Inches higher than the top edge of the screen does the top part of Anna&Flo’s triple curtain need to be installed so that when it’s closed (not being used) it doesn’t hang in front of the screen , thereby covering it?

5) once I have optimised my room with Anna&Flo’s triple Black velvet curtain system or the “Ikea Tupplur blinds + dark painted ceiling” , do you suggest I still use the Cinegrey 3D or will there be no use for it ? If better to replace it (since it may deliver duller whites) , what screen would you suggest I buy ?

Many thanks for all your kind advices,
Antonio
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post #6159 of 6672 Old 05-30-2019, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
I've been blacking out my room after my projector purchase, but I've run into a couple issues that I haven't found a good solution for:

1. What kind of tape or covering would be best suited to cover up the white grid on a drop ceiling? I covered the panels in velvet, but the grid requires a different solution.
You can get black velvet tape from Ebay, it is darker than Protostar and basically the same as the TBV we use to cover our walls (Joann's, Sy's, etc...). It comes in many sizes, 1" all the way to 6"+ wide. Proscreens is one vendor, but some other generic vendors have it cheaper.

Also, there are two types of tape, black velvet and felt (much worse).
However, most of the sellers don't know the difference, some of them that are selling the black velvet tape are actually selling felt tape, and some selling felt tape are actually selling black velvet tape.

Most of the time, regardless if you order felt or velvet tape, you get the black velvet tape.
I got this inferior grayish 'felt' tape just once. The other stuff was always the good black velvet tape.

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post #6160 of 6672 Old 05-30-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by markross_ita View Post
Hi all,

I would like to achieve an effect as similar as possible to the one achieved by Anna&Flo in this video
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1692721894385217

They achieved such an amazing result by creating a 3in1 triple black velvet curtains system, which, when pulled, covers simultaneously both the two side walls AND the ceiling. Here's what I mean

Yep, ive been running my room the same way for the past 3 years.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57997378

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post #6161 of 6672 Old 05-30-2019, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post

Yep, ive been running my room the same way for the past 3 years.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57997378
Wow, that’s really impressive , sincere congratulations.

Would you be able to offer advise regarding my 5 questions , please ?

Last edited by markross_ita; 05-31-2019 at 02:19 AM.
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post #6162 of 6672 Old 05-31-2019, 02:19 AM
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p.s. how do you even have a HT like that in Sydney? I have lived there for 12 years in different suburbs and neighbours complained of very very low music been played during the day.. can't imagine how you could possibly run anything like your HT at 9pm in any suburb in Sydney - and the more affluent the suburb , the shorter the time to reach the phone to call police on you for any stupid noise!
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post #6163 of 6672 Old 05-31-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by markross_ita View Post
Hi all,

I would like to achieve an effect as similar as possible to the one achieved by Anna&Flo in this video
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1692721894385217

They achieved such an amazing result by creating a 3in1 triple black velvet curtains system, which, when pulled, covers simultaneously both the two side walls AND the ceiling. Here's what I mean.

Exactly like in the video, I'll be projecting in a room which will be totally darkened through roller shutters.
And, like in the video, I would like to reduce reflections through room optimisation.
To try and achieve a similar result, I came up with the idea to

- paint the ceiling with dark paint for about 2 meters (80inches) from the screen (this would be the color of choice https://www.meinonlinelager.de/capar...cid-48565.html)

and

- install along both side-walls some IKEA Black Tupplur roller blinds for 3-4 metres (120-160 inches) from the screen https://www.ikea.com/it/it/catalog/p...113/#/30349126 . The black Tupplur would be pulled down only when we project - i.e. after the room has been already totally darkened.

1) Do you think I would this way achieve a result similar to Anna&Flo's when I pull down the 2-4m of Black Tupplur on both sides of the screen? Do the Tupplur have absorbing properties ?

2) My VPR is a BenQ W2000 and it is installed on the ceiling at 3m of distance from the Cinegrey.

My room is 7m long and I sit 3.5m away from the screen. How many meters should the the curtains/blinds cover ? Will 3m be enough or do I need to cover more since I sit at 3.5m? How many total meters of triple black velvet curtain (to cover both side walls plus the ceiling) or IKEA Tupplur blinds (to cover only the side walls) should I purchase ?

3) I have noticed that even when Anna&Flo’s triple curtain is fully opened when being used, the top curtain is floggy and hanging (it is not tense/straight). can anyone think of any reason why Anna&Flo would not install it in such a way that it would be straight once it is open and being used ?

4) how many CM/Inches higher than the top edge of the screen does the top part of Anna&Flo’s triple curtain need to be installed so that when it’s closed (not being used) it doesn’t hang in front of the screen , thereby covering it?

5) once I have optimised my room with Anna&Flo’s triple Black velvet curtain system or the “Ikea Tupplur blinds + dark painted ceiling” , do you suggest I still use the Cinegrey 3D or will there be no use for it ? If better to replace it (since it may deliver duller whites) , what screen would you suggest I buy ?

Many thanks for all your kind advices,
Antonio
Hi Antonio,

Flo here.
Glad you like our system.
We actually build it when we were in Munich. When we moved we took it with use and rebuild it in the new appartment.
There we paid even more attention so that the upper curtain is well tensionned.

Here are better pictures of our retractable tunnel:




Since then we moved again, and we are now using a DNP Supernova Blade 08-85 in 120inch. Pretty awesome piece of material withe excellent vertical light rejection and virtually no sparkle at all (and I am very sensitive). But we don'T have the same black hole immersion anymore. It will come back when we build our home theater in the ceiling... in the future

Have a read there for more pictures:
http://projectiondream.com/en/annafl...y-to-our-blog/

So a few answers:

1) You will definetly see a big improvement over having a room with white wall and ceiling even if you only paint in black your ceiling and use black Ikea tuplur for the side.
But NO, it will definetely not give you a similar experience or contrast boost to what we or @Javs achieved with our "Black Velvet Tunnel".
There is a good reason why 90% of the people in this thread use "Black triple velvet" or similar: it absorbs light in a impressive way with the tiny hairs it has.
The result with TBV (Triple black velvet) is maximum contrast AND maximum immersion --> the room disapear: you don't see the ceiling or the side, even if they are very close to your screen and even if it's a very bright scene projected on the screen.
With black paint and black tupplur, it will still reflect A LOT --> not good for immersion, and not good for contrast --> but much better tha white walls.

2) Nice projector. Anna and I liked the BENQ W2000 a lot when I tested it. Sharp and relatively silent for a DLP. Especially because it had crazy good ANSI contrast for such a low cost projector.
This chart should show you how important it is to perfectly optimize your room, even with a DLP, if you want to enjoy it's strength: ANSI contrast.
Otherwise the contrast get lost.



3m from a the Elitescreen Cinegrey 3D is however because it will create massive hotspot. Plus the cinegrey 3d and 5D show clear sparkles/shimmer on clear bright background, especially if you are sitting only 3.5m away..
If you can optimize your room and get rid of it and replace it with a good lambertian white screen (Elunevision Reference Studio 4K 100 has an excellent quality/price), that would be much better!

We had the same sitting distance that you have. 3.5m away from the screen. And the curtain covered the first 3m. That's enough to cover what you see for full immersion and get close to the max contrast. We had about 90% of the ANSI contrast measured at the lens on the screen.

3) Well, the upper curtain was not perfecty tensionned in the first setup because it is damn hard to have the PERFECT curtain+ring width. If you make it too short, well it will not work at all. If you do it at the perfect width, it may not slide on the side because you have to much tension and friction. Too long, it will drop.

The second time we build it we had better success as you can see in the picture posted in the begining.

We did not want to have to many bars /rails at the ceiling, but if you are ready to have one in the middle you can use 3 bars instead of 2 to support the upper curtain.

4) I'd say we had only 5cm drop the second time we buiild it. Maybe 10.

5) If you optimize your room perfectly, then defnitely, get rid of this screen! You are currently getting hot spot and sparkle with it. As I mentioned above, the Elunevision 4K studio reference 100 is very good. No structure at all, very similar to the Stewart Snomatt 100 at a fraction of the cost. Light blue shift to it (like may other screen out there).

Conclusion:
If you can, the best woud be to reproduce 1:1 or better our system.
If you can't, at least it would be much better to replace your idea of black paint on the ceiling by some Black Auto adhesive velour DC-FIX or even better: protostar.

Don't forget to have a black carpet for the floor. In our setting, it was the only thing we were seeing in the movie, since the black carpet was clearly not as good as the triple black velvet.
Also don't forget the wall begind your back if it's still close to the screen. Here some dark paint would be enough.

And on a side topic, if you don't have a masking system yet, you should make sure that you get one! This increases the subjective perceived contrast A LOT!
Especially with a benq w2000 which has a relatively low on-off contrast. Masking system will make your black bars disapear.
It's even more important if you go the route of all black optimized since these black bars will look (even more) grey in comparison!


Good luck,
Florian
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Last edited by Soulnight; 05-31-2019 at 09:29 AM.
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post #6164 of 6672 Old 05-31-2019, 09:21 AM
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Hi Antonio,

Flo here.
Wow Florian, I'd like to say THANK YOU...your detailed reply was definetely worth the wait !!
Plenty of precious pieces of advice in there!

Cheers
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post #6165 of 6672 Old 05-31-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
I've been blacking out my room after my projector purchase, but I've run into a couple issues that I haven't found a good solution for:

1. What kind of tape or covering would be best suited to cover up the white grid on a drop ceiling? I covered the panels in velvet, but the grid requires a different solution.
I use this and it worked very well. Not quite as black as velvet, but you can't really tell during a movie with the lights out. I actually like that I can still see the grid when the lights are on. I think it looks pretty good.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B5FNSO8/
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post #6166 of 6672 Old 06-03-2019, 11:08 PM
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So just for clarification, any material that you can easily breath through, with little resistance, is good to cover acoustic panels with? I want to go with morex stretch velvet for my panels.
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post #6167 of 6672 Old 06-05-2019, 02:25 PM
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Hi guys,
I came across this material mellotone on part express https://www.parts-express.com/mellot...BoC-tYQAvD_BwE
Has anyone used it and know how much closer it gets to black velvet?

Currently, I have everything covered up to 7 feet out from screen. Issue is that black velvet absorbs high frequencies. Just to test how much it tests, I found an area in my HT that has echo. When I place two panels covered by Black Velvet only (nothing inside the panel), on each side of wall and clap again, the echo is gone. Clearly shows how it absorbs all the high frequencies. Now when I have almost 70% area b/w Screen and MLP covered with Black Velvet, its absorbing a lot of high frequencies. Ideally, a good HT should have front wall completely treated. When I do that, it makes the room very dead. So now I'm torn b/w two options

1 - leave front wall un-treated and use it to create sound spaciousness. This is not considered good because it will create the sound spaciousness by having the sound wave come to back wall and then reflect back to front wall and then reflect back to listener.

2 - Treat front wall and take away black velvet to allow side walls and some area from ceiling to use as reflection. This is ideal since this is 1st reflection we are using. But in this case, I loose good amount of Black Velvet around the screen.

So guys, is there anything that we can do to keep black velvet and get reflection out of it or its only either option #1 or #2 . Please note that my panels don't even have any foam inside it since I don't need to absorb. May be if we can install a reflective material inside the panel to reflect off the sound? Something like this https://www.buyinsulationproductstor...-of-12-sheets/? What are you guys doing to make sure the sound quality doesn't go down with this black out room? Another option is to use mellotone from part express since its acoustically transparent but don't know how black it is as compared to black velvet
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post #6168 of 6672 Old 06-05-2019, 03:33 PM
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You might have better luck posting in the sound forums, but we'll see if you get any bites in here. Are you using an AT screen, I guess that would be the main issue. I am pretty sure that material is not going to come that close to the darkness of black velvet, but if you want to use it for just the front wall and the rest of your room is blacked out with velvet, it will probably still look good with the lights out if that is what you are asking. I have a brown leather piece below my TBV treatments, and it still looks pitch black in the dark, because the velvet everywhere else is stopping it from reflecting much.

Since I am not using an AT screen, I find the black velvet has only improved the sound for my room, not hindered. I don't like high frequency sounds for home theater, it makes vocals raspier, it's why I got rid of an Onkyo and moved up to a Denon. The vocals are clearer on the Denon because it has a tiny tiny bit smoother and less emphasized treble response.

Hard to say how much reflection you need to maintain as every room is different, but quite honestly, to me the best sounding room I've ever been in (and I've had 5+ different HT rooms), was the one that had fully thick carpet, and was 100% covered in black velvet. My current room has throw rugs, but still has some 'open hard flooring' on the sides where my rugs didn't overlap, working on covering that eventually.

So I guess the answer is, is muting high frequencies really that bad for HT?

I don't know, when I had my Onkyo I would have given anything to mute its over abundance of high frequencies. Of course I had lowish-middle end models, so not sure about high-end audio gear.

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post #6169 of 6672 Old 06-05-2019, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
You might have better luck posting in the sound forums, but we'll see if you get any bites in here. Are you using an AT screen, I guess that would be the main issue. I am pretty sure that material is not going to come that close to the darkness of black velvet, but if you want to use it for just the front wall and the rest of your room is blacked out with velvet, it will probably still look good with the lights out if that is what you are asking. I have a brown leather piece below my TBV treatments, and it still looks pitch black in the dark, because the velvet everywhere else is stopping it from reflecting much.

Since I am not using an AT screen, I find the black velvet has only improved the sound for my room, not hindered. I don't like high frequency sounds for home theater, it makes vocals raspier, it's why I got rid of an Onkyo and moved up to a Denon. The vocals are clearer on the Denon because it has a tiny tiny bit smoother and less emphasized treble response.

Hard to say how much reflection you need to maintain as every room is different, but quite honestly, to me the best sounding room I've ever been in (and I've had 5+ different HT rooms), was the one that had fully thick carpet, and was 100% covered in black velvet. My current room has throw rugs, but still has some 'open hard flooring' on the sides where my rugs didn't overlap, working on covering that eventually.

So I guess the answer is, is muting high frequencies really that bad for HT?

I don't know, when I had my Onkyo I would have given anything to mute its over abundance of high frequencies. Of course I had lowish-middle end models, so not sure about high-end audio gear.
Posting in sound thread won't help because they will be all about sound and they'll just recommend to get rid of black velvet.
Yes I'm using AT screen and LCR are behind the screen. Not sure why you think using AT is the main issue?
I don't need to use that material on the front wall because the whole wall is hidden behind the screen. The area above and below is covered by Black Velvet like most do here.
If I cover all the sides/ceiling along with front wall covered with treatment, it gets rids of spaciousness. I do understand that sound is very subjective. I have used my HT with velvet covered and front wall not treated and did enjoy the sound but when I removed the velvet, sound opened up a lot more which I like more.
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post #6170 of 6672 Old 06-05-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Hi guys,
I came across this material mellotone on part express https://www.parts-express.com/mellot...BoC-tYQAvD_BwE
Has anyone used it and know how much closer it gets to black velvet?

Currently, I have everything covered up to 7 feet out from screen. Issue is that black velvet absorbs high frequencies. Just to test how much it tests, I found an area in my HT that has echo. When I place two panels covered by Black Velvet only (nothing inside the panel), on each side of wall and clap again, the echo is gone. Clearly shows how it absorbs all the high frequencies. Now when I have almost 70% area b/w Screen and MLP covered with Black Velvet, its absorbing a lot of high frequencies. Ideally, a good HT should have front wall completely treated. When I do that, it makes the room very dead. So now I'm torn b/w two options

1 - leave front wall un-treated and use it to create sound spaciousness. This is not considered good because it will create the sound spaciousness by having the sound wave come to back wall and then reflect back to front wall and then reflect back to listener.

2 - Treat front wall and take away black velvet to allow side walls and some area from ceiling to use as reflection. This is ideal since this is 1st reflection we are using. But in this case, I loose good amount of Black Velvet around the screen.

So guys, is there anything that we can do to keep black velvet and get reflection out of it or its only either option #1 or #2 . Please note that my panels don't even have any foam inside it since I don't need to absorb. May be if we can install a reflective material inside the panel to reflect off the sound? Something like this https://www.buyinsulationproductstor...-of-12-sheets/? What are you guys doing to make sure the sound quality doesn't go down with this black out room? Another option is to use mellotone from part express since its acoustically transparent but don't know how black it is as compared to black velvet
I use that grill cloth below my screen to cover the lower woofers in my LCR's. It is directional. Turned one way, it looks very close to the black velvet on my screen frame. Turned another direction, it looks more gray.
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post #6171 of 6672 Old 06-06-2019, 06:26 AM
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I use that grill cloth below my screen to cover the lower woofers in my LCR's. It is directional. Turned one way, it looks very close to the black velvet on my screen frame. Turned another direction, it looks more gray.
Below screen yes its safe because the light that gets reflected from screen won't hit that area. Take that same cloth and put it on side wall and it will look like grey. If it doesn't, please share which one you are using? I purchased a regular AT cloth and that one next to Black Velvet look like grey. I ordered mellotone from part express. They claim that its the blackest AT cloth you can find. Let's see how that'd look.

Please note that I'm not looking for AT for speakers. I'm looking to cover the side walls with it. If it works well, I'll have diffusers b/w MLP and screen and cover them with AT.
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post #6172 of 6672 Old 06-06-2019, 06:30 AM
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Below screen yes its safe because the light that gets reflected from screen won't hit that area. Take that same cloth and put it on side wall and it will look like grey. If it doesn't, please share which one you are using? I purchased a regular AT cloth and that one next to Black Velvet look like grey. I ordered mellotone from part express. They claim that its the blackest AT cloth you can find. Let's see how that'd look.

Please note that I'm not looking for AT for speakers. I'm looking to cover the side walls with it. If it works well, I'll have diffusers b/w MLP and screen and cover them with AT.
Did you try rotating it 90 degrees? Makes a huge difference. One way it looks black and matches up with my black velvet pretty good. Rotated the other way, it looks gray.
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Did you try rotating it 90 degrees? Makes a huge difference. One way it looks black and matches up with my black velvet pretty good. Rotated the other way, it looks gray.
I flipped the panels and still the same. Which AT are you using? May be you are using a different one than I'm. Mine honestly looks greyish even in regular light. I don't think its a good high quality AT cloth.
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I flipped the panels and still the same. Which AT are you using? May be you are using a different one than I'm. Mine honestly looks greyish even in regular light. I don't think its a good high quality AT cloth.
Maybe it is due to the location. Only AT cloth I am using is the Mellotone, below my screen. All other coverings I am using are black velvet. Here is pic of front of the room. That picture is taken with three 65 watt flood lights, right above screen, on full. Since that picture, I have covered the bottom of my wife's short throw projector with velvet.
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post #6175 of 6672 Old 06-06-2019, 07:50 AM
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Maybe it is due to the location. Only AT cloth I am using is the Mellotone, below my screen. All other coverings I am using are black velvet. Here is pic of front of the room. That picture is taken with three 65 watt flood lights, right above screen, on full. Since that picture, I have covered the bottom of my wife's short throw projector with velvet.
Your setup is how I have been using mine for last 2 years. I ordered Mellotone yesterday. Can you please tell how it looks when you put it on side wall along with Black Velvet when you are watching movies. In other words, when all lights are off and only projector is on. Also, how far are your side walls from edge of screen? This also plays important role. Mine are only 8" away from side walls. If yours are like 2 feet away, that's already a good distance that might not get in the way when you are paying attention to screen only.

So the reason I am deviating from using Black Velvet all around. First off, the image quality is amazing with it all around. JVC RS 500 professionally calibrate (btw I purchased it from you ) is amazing with black velvet all around. Really nice contrast and black levels. The only issue with this is that black velvet all around will absorb all the high frequencies. Do you hear good spaciousness in your room? Is your room sealed? I think you have baffle wall on the front right? In my case, I could hear spaciousness when I don't treat front wall much with black velvet all around b/w Screen and MLP. This spaciousness is created using back and front walls. Not ideal because when you have front wall reflecting sound that first hits the back wall is like 3rd reflection. Side walls are best for 1st reflection. Using Black Velvet there absorbs it. If you are using panels to cover side walls, take them out and listen to your system for a few minutes. Not stereo but 7.1 or atmos tracks and see if you like what you hear. In multi channel room, the idea of covering 1st reflection is no more encouraged. Mostly, 1st reflection is now either left alone or diffused. Plus not letting the front wall reflect is also important.
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post #6176 of 6672 Old 06-06-2019, 08:14 AM
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What are you guys doing to make sure the sound quality doesn't go down with this black out room?
Two considerations in my room:

One, I am not using velvet on 100% of surfaces beyond the front of the room. Velvet will be framed such that the beveled framing and space between frames will add a modest amount of reflection and diffusion.

Two, I accept that this space will not be ideal for two channel and that the current multichannel specs call for significant absorption such that almost all sound is direct. The processor provides the ambiance for movie soundtracks, not the room. Atmos installations should have absorption pretty much everywhere, to include the ceiling unless you are using it for bouncing an Atmos-enabled module. I'm blacking this space out for movies, so 2 channel just has to go in another room.
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Two considerations in my room:

One, I am not using velvet on 100% of surfaces beyond the front of the room. Velvet will be framed such that the beveled framing and space between frames will add a modest amount of reflection and diffusion.

Two, I accept that this space will not be ideal for two channel and that the current multichannel specs call for significant absorption such that almost all sound is direct. The processor provides the ambiance for movie soundtracks, not the room. Atmos installations should have absorption pretty much everywhere, to include the ceiling unless you are using it for bouncing an Atmos-enabled module. I'm blacking this space out for movies, so 2 channel just has to go in another room.
Good post. Mind sharing some photos of how you did the framing and gap b/w them? A few points
You mentioned that you have space b/w frames that you are using for reflection. How big is that space? If you don't have velvet there then it will shine off b/w two velvets.
2nd, I don't think that for multi channel space needs to be absorbed all around and sound should be direct. I do agree that processor will provide ambient sound using surr/surr back/ceiling but then you'll have a gap in ambiance b/w front and back stage of sound. It will be like front stage will sound very direct and surround will sound very open. It won't sound balanced. I know it because I went through it. May be in your case it won't since you have gap between the panels. In multi-channel, you do want 1st reflection. Floyd Toole describes this in his book. I haven't read it yet but Audioholics explained it here
. You can also browse Nyal HT designs. He doesn't absort all the front stage http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/cat.../case-studies/. He mostly uses diffusers b/w front speakers and MLP. We don't want to absorb 1st reflection.
As for 2 channels, you can convert it into multi channel in such environment. All this is also mentioned in first 5 pages of room acoustic main thread.
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post #6178 of 6672 Old 06-06-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Your setup is how I have been using mine for last 2 years. I ordered Mellotone yesterday. Can you please tell how it looks when you put it on side wall along with Black Velvet when you are watching movies. In other words, when all lights are off and only projector is on. Also, how far are your side walls from edge of screen? This also plays important role. Mine are only 8" away from side walls. If yours are like 2 feet away, that's already a good distance that might not get in the way when you are paying attention to screen only.

So the reason I am deviating from using Black Velvet all around. First off, the image quality is amazing with it all around. JVC RS 500 professionally calibrate (btw I purchased it from you ) is amazing with black velvet all around. Really nice contrast and black levels. The only issue with this is that black velvet all around will absorb all the high frequencies. Do you hear good spaciousness in your room? Is your room sealed? I think you have baffle wall on the front right? In my case, I could hear spaciousness when I don't treat front wall much with black velvet all around b/w Screen and MLP. This spaciousness is created using back and front walls. Not ideal because when you have front wall reflecting sound that first hits the back wall is like 3rd reflection. Side walls are best for 1st reflection. Using Black Velvet there absorbs it. If you are using panels to cover side walls, take them out and listen to your system for a few minutes. Not stereo but 7.1 or atmos tracks and see if you like what you hear. In multi channel room, the idea of covering 1st reflection is no more encouraged. Mostly, 1st reflection is now either left alone or diffused. Plus not letting the front wall reflect is also important.
I have the black velvet on the sides, wrapping around to touch the edge of my screen frame. My frame is 6.75" wide (masking frame), so side walls are close to the screen. I have 1" linacoustic on the front wall behind the AT screen. I have absorption on back wall. Only absorption on side walls is the velvet. Room has open entrance on one side. Opens to another room, which I close off, when watching movies. I get to listen to a lot of good rooms when I go to CEDIA. I used to come back and be disappointed with my room. Once I redesigned my room installing the baffle wall with angled wings and new speakers, this is no longer the case. Has cured my upgraditus, sound wise.

Added
My room is used for movies, not 2-channel music.
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post #6179 of 6672 Old 06-06-2019, 09:25 AM
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Good post. Mind sharing some photos of how you did the framing and gap b/w them? A few points
You mentioned that you have space b/w frames that you are using for reflection. How big is that space? If you don't have velvet there then it will shine off b/w two velvets.
2nd, I don't think that for multi channel space needs to be absorbed all around and sound should be direct. I do agree that processor will provide ambient sound using surr/surr back/ceiling but then you'll have a gap in ambiance b/w front and back stage of sound. It will be like front stage will sound very direct and surround will sound very open. It won't sound balanced. I know it because I went through it. May be in your case it won't since you have gap between the panels. In multi-channel, you do want 1st reflection. Floyd Toole describes this in his book. I haven't read it yet but Audioholics explained it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93GOclt9ScI. You can also browse Nyal HT designs. He doesn't absort all the front stage http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/cat.../case-studies/. He mostly uses diffusers b/w front speakers and MLP. We don't want to absorb 1st reflection.
As for 2 channels, you can convert it into multi channel in such environment. All this is also mentioned in first 5 pages of room acoustic main thread.
I'd only ask how old that advice is. Things have changed. I think it was a Dennis Erskine post that got me thinking this way, but no telling which thread it was in.

My solution is not mathematically perfect, it is a compromise for my space where I have to cover 3 windows on a side wall and the frames allow me to do so. I will put 3 over the windows, a 4th just beside them on bare wall, and 4 mirroring them on the opposite side wall. I can choose whether to fill each frame with a diffuser, absorber, or just a flat reflective surface, but I suspect I will be satisfied with absorbers in all of them. This is a functional room on a budget, not a palace.
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Maybe it is due to the location. Only AT cloth I am using is the Mellotone, below my screen. All other coverings I am using are black velvet. Here is pic of front of the room. That picture is taken with three 65 watt flood lights, right above screen, on full. Since that picture, I have covered the bottom of my wife's short throw projector with velvet.
This is the first time I've heard a guy claiming the projector not his! LOL

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