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post #6181 of 6649 Old 06-07-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
This is the first time I've heard a guy claiming the projector not his! LOL
That is not, "the projector in the room". There are two and sometimes three projectors in this room. Her projector is a short throw DLP for her yoga. Only shoots a 16:9 image filling the height of my scope screen. Has built in speaker, so not connected to audio system. Ceiling mounted at the back of the room is my projector. My last four projectors in this room have been: RS640, RS4500, RS600 and VW600. Waiting for my RS3000.
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post #6182 of 6649 Old 06-07-2019, 08:22 AM
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@Mike Garrett , @ScottAvery + others,
I think I found a good solution. First off, Mike, I got the Mellotone yesterday and even after placing it like 6 feet away from screen on side wall made it visible enough that it was catching my attention. I did flip to see if other side did any better but it didn't.

Now the solution. So the issue was with velvet absorbing high frequencies. I thought that if I can make small holes in the velvet, sound would pass thru it a lot more than without it. So I started looking for a tool that can help me and found the Meat thermometer to be the tool . it has a sharp tip and then it gets thicker. It was thick enough to create holes and small enough to be invisible when placed on side walls. I punched the cloths several times (like 100 times) until whole panel had holes all around it. Then I placed FRK paper inside the panel facing towards the room and glued it. This is a very reflective paper and is generally used with 703 foam where you want the foam to absorb below certain frequency and reflect higher ones. I figured that if I use this paper with its reflective surface facing the room, any sound wave that gets thru the hole will be reflected right back. I did that for 4 panels on wall and 1 panel on ceiling. Tried it out and sounded muccchhh better. Still there a little bit of spaciousness missing specially for Center channel. I have Velvet all over the ceiling and it extends out very close to MLP. I took one of the panel out that was in center closest to MLP and wallah, there it is. Sounded spacious and at the same time, center has very clear dialog.
So there it is guys. I found a way to make Black Velvet reflective . Just punch holes in it and put FRK paper with its reflective side facing the room inside the panel.
For quick testing, I put Terminator Genisys which has Dolby Atmos track. I turned off the bass to make sure I hear only the speaker effects. It was awesome. I actually ended up removing absorptive panels on side walls b/w back wall and MLP. I listened to same scene with and without those back panels and liked it better without. During listening session, I got scared a few times and heard great dynamics.

Funny thing is that we read all the advises and just follow them. Each room is different. Each person is different. What I learned from this is that the best way to treat your room is to start slow and add things and see how it changes and then proceed. I myself read and put tons of panels on the back wall and front wall and side walls and ceiling and thought that it sounded great for years. Recently, I read about diffuser on back wall. So decided to try it out and took all the absorption out of back wall. When I tested that, I realized that I was absorbing too much of high frequencies before. I slowly started working on more live sound and realized how the velvet panels were eating away the high frequencies. Based on my current changes and quick tests last night, I liked the sound much better with reflection as compared to absorbing it. Plus I also have the front wall absorbing everywhere. This also made a huge difference.
At this point, I do have black velvet covering 80% of area b/w MLP and screen. I have 3 panels on each side wall and 4 on ceiling with a total of 10 panels. None of them have any absorptive material. They are there just covered with black velvet. Out of 10, I punched holes in 5 panels (2 on each side wall and 1 on ceiling). This ended up providing a balanced reflecting/absorption. Whole front wall is treated with 4" 703 starting from ear level all the way up to ceiling (kinda like baffle wall). Back wall has diffuser on each side (Left/Right).

I know its a thread of making your room perfect for video but i'm very sure that you all want to also have good sound. So now anyone who wants to use black velvet and still want some reflection, I think you can try what I did and see if you like it before you decide to rip velvet off.
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post #6183 of 6649 Old 06-07-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
That is not, "the projector in the room". There are two and sometimes three projectors in this room. Her projector is a short throw DLP for her yoga. Only shoots a 16:9 image filling the height of my scope screen. Has built in speaker, so not connected to audio system. Ceiling mounted at the back of the room is my projector. My last four projectors in this room have been: RS640, RS4500, RS600 and VW600. Waiting for my RS3000.
Did you by any chance write your opinion about the differences b/w these RS640, RS4500, RS600 and VW600 projectors you have had? I purchased RS500 from you and with black velvet all around and using 1.3 gain perf, still loving it. What I'd like even more is some more lumens+laser so that I won't have to worry about getting my projector re-calibrating every time I change bulb or 1000h (which ever comes first).
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post #6184 of 6649 Old 06-07-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Did you by any chance write your opinion about the differences b/w these RS640, RS4500, RS600 and VW600 projectors you have had? I purchased RS500 from you and with black velvet all around and using 1.3 gain perf, still loving it. What I'd like even more is some more lumens+laser so that I won't have to worry about getting my projector re-calibrating every time I change bulb or 1000h (which ever comes first).
There are differences that he has noted throughout the forums, but the price points are so different other than the RS-600 vs. RS-640. Since I don't own either projector, I kind of forget the minor differences, but something like... RS600 to RS640 is mostly just firmware and software stuff, added gaming lag mode in RS-620 and later, DI works without fury in RS-640... HDMI synch times reduced a bit, though I think HDMI synch is fastest in the NX series (not sure).

I personally would not touch a Sony given their history with contrast degradation, but I wouldn't hold it against someone if they wanted a Sony. Although the newer Native 4k JVC NX series are experiencing some issues, seems like firmware updates are starting to iron most of them out.

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post #6185 of 6649 Old 06-07-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
What I'd like even more is some more lumens+laser so that I won't have to worry about getting my projector re-calibrating every time I change bulb or 1000h (which ever comes first).
I'm surprised you feel the need to hire a calibrator for your projector every time you change a bulb, I personally never found all that much calibration differences between bulbs close to the same hours. Though I guess it depends on the specific projector.

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post #6186 of 6649 Old 06-07-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
There are differences that he has noted throughout the forums, but the price points are so different other than the RS-600 vs. RS-640. Since I don't own either projector, I kind of forget the minor differences, but something like... RS600 to RS640 is mostly just firmware and software stuff, added gaming lag mode in RS-620 and later, DI works without fury in RS-640... HDMI synch times reduced a bit, though I think HDMI synch is fastest in the NX series (not sure).

I personally would not touch a Sony given their history with contrast degradation, but I wouldn't hold it against someone if they wanted a Sony. Although the newer Native 4k JVC NX series are experiencing some issues, seems like firmware updates are starting to iron most of them out.
So nothing in JVC world that gives same level of contrast as RS500/600 using Laser with more Lumen then? Sad. I see laser projectors getting much cheaper and thought that by now we'd have at least something equivalent to RS500 with Laser in the same price range as RS500 used to be. Seems like it will take a few more year.s

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I'm surprised you feel the need to hire a calibrator for your projector every time you change a bulb, I personally never found all that much calibration differences between bulbs close to the same hours. Though I guess it depends on the specific projector.
I didn't get it calibrated with new bulb. I have the bulb but haven't replaced it yet. Was thinking though that I should get it calibrated but thx for clarifying that its not needed. I have 2300 currently on my existing lamp. At this time, I am using lamp in high mode with IRIS on 3 to get good light output. I figured that I'd wait till high gets low enough and then I'll switch it. Projector does make more noise though in high lamp mode.
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post #6187 of 6649 Old 06-14-2019, 10:45 AM
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Movie Tent

I made my own movie tent from found $Dollar store materials. Put up and down in about two minutes with 6 hooks.
www.movietent.ca
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post #6188 of 6649 Old 06-14-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by wiremite View Post
I made my own movie tent from found $Dollar store materials. Put up and down in about two minutes with 6 hooks.
www.movietent.ca

Night and Day .....: )






Looks like an excellent solution for apartment dwellers or anyone who requires to appease ones better half and offer an immersive solution for movie nights.



Thanks
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post #6189 of 6649 Old 06-14-2019, 07:26 PM
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For those who have it, how dark is black 408 Guilford of Maine fabric, compared to black velvet?
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post #6190 of 6649 Old 06-14-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindros88 View Post
For those who have it, how dark is black 408 Guilford of Maine fabric, compared to black velvet?
A dark gray by comparison. I ended up having to cover my acoustic panels (which had black GOM on them) in velvet because it was too visible from my seating position
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post #6191 of 6649 Old 06-14-2019, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
A dark gray by comparison. I ended up having to cover my acoustic panels (which had black GOM on them) in velvet because it was too visible from my seating position
Damn. What velvet did you end up putting on your panels? I used morex stretch velvet on some of mine. Not sure if it's really acoustically transparent, but I've heard if you can easily breath through the fabric, then it's good for your panels.
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post #6192 of 6649 Old 06-14-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindros88 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
A dark gray by comparison. I ended up having to cover my acoustic panels (which had black GOM on them) in velvet because it was too visible from my seating position
Damn. What velvet did you end up putting on your panels? I used morex stretch velvet on some of mine. Not sure if it's really acoustically transparent, but I've heard if you can easily breath through the fabric, then it's good for your panels.
For my panels, I used some joanne's royal 3, since I had run out of my roll that I ordered from amazon. If you look a few pages back, Javs posted a study showing that there are minimal absorption impacts of a velvet layer over an acoustic panel except at very high frequencies
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post #6193 of 6649 Old 06-14-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
For my panels, I used some joanne's royal 3, since I had run out of my roll that I ordered from amazon. If you look a few pages back, Javs posted a study showing that there are minimal absorption impacts of a velvet layer over an acoustic panel except at very high frequencies
I'll look for that. Thanks.
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post #6194 of 6649 Old 06-15-2019, 06:33 AM
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Fidelio is the blackest vevlet in the world. My frame is made out of fidelio, and the velvet draped over my speaker in this shot is called Double Velvet. Its not super cheap but when looking for material like this is not wise to cut costs so much...

I have about 20m roll of it under the house for when I build a cinema and will be buying more.
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Has anyone tested the FIDELIO vs the WHALEYS? Because the WHALEYS is the blackest velvet I have come across so far

I have ordered some of the FIDELIO and will see how it compares...
The WHALEY'S BLACK VELVET DEVORE is blacker than the FIDELIO and so is STILL the blackest material that I have tested, totalling 44 number materials now



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post #6195 of 6649 Old 06-15-2019, 02:16 PM
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Before I had a black fabric and then I put the Devore ....
Incredible the final yield !!!
Total absence of reflections but only need to place it in the correct way...

Before and after:
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post #6196 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 03:58 AM
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Here's a photo of the WHALEY'S versus the FIDELIO during the daytime in the sunshine and with all the room's lights turned on:



The WHALEY'S is circa half the price of the FIDELIO. It also has much better acoustical transparency (the FIDELIO is not really acoustically transparent at all) and is less prone to creasing and crushing than the FIDELIO

The fabric is 1.2 metres wide and the rolls are 20 - 25 metres long. You can purchase it by the metre or entire rolls.

Both materials are directional in that they have a slight sheen in one direction, but absolutely zero sheen in the other direction; so you want to be sure to position the material the right way around. Also I use a clothes brush after fitting the material, which makes the pile stand up on end and clears any lint or other particles that might be clinging to the surface of the material.

I use this material in all of my home theater designs / builds. I can't recommend it highly enough

You can purchase it online HERE: WHALEY'S BLACK VELVET DEVORE


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post #6197 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 05:49 AM
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According to this site, Triple Black Velvet and Whaley's are a tie...

http://projectiondream.com/en/protos...velvet-devore/
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post #6198 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
It also has much better acoustical transparency (the FIDELIO is not really acoustically transparent at all) and is less prone to creasing and crushing than the FIDELIO

Yes, I covered my QRD panels with the devore both on the ceiling and on the walls!
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post #6199 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
According to this site, Triple Black Velvet and Whaley's are a tie...

http://projectiondream.com/en/protos...velvet-devore/
Just want to make sure, that's the Triple Black Velvet by SY Fabrics, is that right? Namely THIS?: https://syfabrics.com/products/plush-triple-velvet1

I am pretty sure that the WHALEY'S very slightly outperforms this material, but I am going to obtain a sample to triple check

I note that that comparison was carried out 4 years ago, so it's possible something has changed since then.

I will post the results of my up-to-date comparison on here as and when I receive the sample


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Quote:
Originally Posted by gil1 View Post
Before I had a black fabric and then I put the Devore ....
Incredible the final yield !!!
Total absence of reflections but only need to place it in the correct way...

Before and after:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gil1 View Post
Yes, I covered my QRD panels with the devore both on the ceiling and on the walls!
Ah, sorry, I didn't realize that was the WHALEY'S Devore material until now. 'Devore' a generic name for a type of fabric so there are other different Devore material other than WHALEY'S but the WHALEY'S is the best.

Yes, it really is incredible isn't it? I think yours results speak for themselves. The difference between your previous black fabric and the WHALEY'S is considerable! Now you have a black abyss!

As I have previously mentioned, the two home theaters I am currently building are having the entire rooms finished in the WHALEY'S... the walls, the skirtings, the ceiling, the ceiling bulkheads, the wall columns, the doors, everything!

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post #6201 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 07:48 AM
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Yes,
I too have replaced the black fabric with that of the whaley’s in every part of my room (even the 3 subwoofers pb4000) ....
Once the right direction is established, it is totally absent from reflections
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post #6202 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Just want to make sure, that's the Triple Black Velvet by SY Fabrics, is that right? Namely THIS?: https://syfabrics.com/products/plush-triple-velvet1

I am pretty sure that the WHALEY'S very slightly outperforms this material, but I am going to obtain a sample to triple check

I note that that comparison was carried out 4 years ago, so it's possible something has changed since then.

I will post the results of my up-to-date comparison on here as and when I receive the sample

Hi there.

The article we wrote on projectiondream is comparing whaley devore to Sy Triple Black Velvet.

And yes basically a tie for what black goes.

But I fully agree than devore is the better material since it's pretty good acoustic wise.

I also have fidelio there.

It all depends on the incoming light direction and from where you look at the material.

Sometimes the Fidelio is clearly blacker, sometimes TBV, sometimes devore.

I would say that fidelio is less dependent on direction than the 2 others.

But again: devore cheaper and acoustic wins. :-)

We will update the article with fidelio, mvel22 (best price performance out there ;-) ) and a newcomer from Germany soon.

If you do a comparison yourself, make sure you vary the light angle and the viewing angle. :-)

Picture from atop with direct light IS NOT how the material will be used.

They all work so well because of the tiny hairs and work best with light coming from the side when viewed from the side.
Good for us all that this is exactly how we use them in our black velvet theaters ;-)

Flo

Last edited by Soulnight; 06-16-2019 at 09:09 AM.
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post #6203 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Here's a photo of the WHALEY'S versus the FIDELIO during the daytime in the sunshine and with all the room's lights turned on:







The WHALEY'S is circa half the price of the FIDELIO. It also has much better acoustical transparency (the FIDELIO is not really acoustically transparent at all) and is less prone to creasing and crushing than the FIDELIO



The fabric is 1.2 metres wide and the rolls are 20 - 25 metres long. You can purchase it by the metre or entire rolls.



Both materials are directional in that they have a slight sheen in one direction, but absolutely zero sheen in the other direction; so you want to be sure to position the material the right way around. Also I use a clothes brush after fitting the material, which makes the pile stand up on end and clears any lint or other particles that might be clinging to the surface of the material.



I use this material in all of my home theater designs / builds. I can't recommend it highly enough



You can purchase it online HERE: WHALEY'S BLACK VELVET DEVORE



Creasing and crushing? I'm not sure we are talking about the same Fidelio? The one on my screen frame is super black even in direct sunlight.

Though the local option to me is just about as black and it's quite thick pile too. I wouldn't buy Fidelio because of the price.

Hey Nigel can we swap samples? I'll send you a swatch of my 'double velvet', I would like to see some of that whaleys in person.

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post #6204 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 10:33 AM
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So, being velvet directional in the way it reflects light, I suppose that if you’re facing the screen and all around it is black, then whatever light reflections happening they are going towards the screen; I mean, if you’d place yourself back against the screen you’d then be facing the most reflective orientation of the fabric. Is this completely wrong or not at all? If this is correct, then is it preferable to have those very faint reflections going towards the screen than compromising the feeling of total darkness around the screen? Or is there a 3rd option where the fabric is placed so that it reflects light downwards?


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post #6205 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 11:10 AM
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being of velvet, the level of reflection on the screen remains contained and this does not affect its performance.

On the contrary, from the seats, the fact of not having the slightest reflection for me is priceless!
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post #6206 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 12:03 PM
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I paid $6 yard for my Triple Black Velvet on Amazon, and I'm perfectly happy with it. Though I could use some more for the back of the ceiling eventually when I get time.

I also figured out a trick if anyone ever wrinkles it from storage, the old spray it with water and throw it in the dryer seemed to work fine, though I wouldn't dry it very long. I have only tried it with smaller pieces, but I have a good 20 foot section that needs de-wrinkled before I put it up on my wall, my room is like 70% covered with TBV at the moment, going for 90% coverage, with the other 10% being curtains on the back wall.

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post #6207 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Creasing and crushing? I'm not sure we are talking about the same Fidelio? The one on my screen frame is super black even in direct sunlight.

Though the local option to me is just about as black and it's quite thick pile too. I wouldn't buy Fidelio because of the price.

Hey Nigel can we swap samples? I'll send you a swatch of my 'double velvet', I would like to see some of that whaleys in person.
I'm pretty sure it's the right FIDELIO... Namely THIS: https://www.voguefabricsstore.com/fi...lack-1000.html which can be ordered online HERE: http://www.seymourav.com/store.asp

I'll mail you a sample of both the WHALEY'S and the FIDELIO that I have here and you can compare both with what you have there.

And yes I'd really like to check out your 'Double Velvet' material

Let exchange mailing addresses via email

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
Hi there.

The article we wrote on projectiondream is comparing whaley devore to Sy Triple Black Velvet.

And yes basically a tie for what black goes.

But I fully agree than devore is the better material since it's pretty good acoustic wise.

I also have fidelio there.

It all depends on the incoming light direction and from where you look at the material.

Sometimes the Fidelio is clearly blacker, sometimes TBV, sometimes devore.

I would say that fidelio is less dependent on direction than the 2 others.

But again: devore cheaper and acoustic wins. :-)

We will update the article with fidelio, mvel22 (best price performance out there ;-) ) and a newcomer from Germany soon.

If you do a comparison yourself, make sure you vary the light angle and the viewing angle. :-)

Picture from atop with direct light IS NOT how the material will be used.

They all work so well because of the tiny hairs and work best with light coming from the side when viewed from the side.
Good for us all that this is exactly how we use them in our black velvet theaters ;-)

Flo
Thanks for chiming in Flo

The test I use is essentially replicating the light source direction and viewing position that you would experience in a home theater.

In other words, all the velvet fabrics, which are all directional, are positioned with light sources eminating from in front, washing across the fabric, with you perceiving from the rear; which is essentially what will be happening with projected image, walls/ceiling, and viewing position.

And in this particular respect what I am finding is that the WHALEY'S is the blackest of all.

For obvious reasons this is what is most important, so how the fabrics perform with light coming from other angles etc. is nothing like as important. Unless you plan on sitting at the screen viewing backward into the room, or like to hang from the ceiling looking downwards etc.

First of all I did so with the room lighting on, which was positioned at the front of the room, so eminating from the front, and then again but during the daytime with light eminating from the front wall (windows) and lighting that is positioned in front of the fabric samples. And now I have just repeated the exercise, this time with ONLY light emanating from the front wall (windows) and this only serves to further confirm that the WHALEY'S is superior:





The FIDELIO is very black and I agree that it is less directional than the others. It has much less of a sheen when viewed from 'the wrong direction'. And I also agree that with certain viewing angles and lighting positions it looks blacker. **HOWEVER** with respect to the performance that matters the most, namely with light source eminating from from in front, washing across the fabric, with you perceiving from the rear, with the fabrics positioned in the 'right direction' such that there is no sheen, the WHALEY'S is definitely blacker than the FIDELIO; as you can see in my photos.

Given the materials are both extremely black I found it difficult to properly evaluate differences using a small swatch of material so I purchased much larger samples such that I could evaluate the materials on a macro scale, which is how they will be used and viewed. Have you tried evaluating the materials comparing entire wall coverage as opposed to just using small swatches? Further to testing the materials here, I also took a 2.2 metre long x full roll width sample of the FIDELIO to a new home cinema/theater installation in London, wherein the entire room has been fabric walled using the WHALEY's, and we affixed the FIDELIO over the top of the WHALEY'S on one of the side walls adjacent to the projection screen and then projected a full field 100 IRE test pattern onto the projection screen. When viewed from the rear, including the seating positions, again the WHALEY's was/is blacker

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post #6208 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 01:48 PM
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endless uses for protostar

This weekend I found a great use for my extra protostar material. I've been building poster lightboxes for the area just outside the theater.

Spoiler!


I tried painting the outer frame wood with the Rosco but the protostar looks much better and sticks to the wood with no problem.
Spoiler!


The results are awesome







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post #6209 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 02:39 PM
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Aren't the posters hurting the contrast though, even when the lights are off?

I mean I know it's probably not much, but aren't we like going crazy covering every little LED up...

I'm still trying to cover up my smoke alarm. I figure best not to remove the smoke alarm out of that room as I have some pretty questionable equipment
My biggest hack is the sub-conversion from passive to active using a $15 amp... I'm always worried that thing is going to catch on fire...

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Last edited by coderguy; 06-16-2019 at 02:42 PM.
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post #6210 of 6649 Old 06-16-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Aren't the posters hurting the contrast though, even when the lights are off?

I mean I know it's probably not much, but aren't we like going crazy covering every little LED up...
The posters are not inside the HT, I have a room outside the HT with different movie items.

i'm glad you like them, I think it turned out great.
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