The Blacker the Theater, The Better the Image - Page 210 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6271 of 6289 Old 07-11-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
The WHALEY'S BLACK VELVET DEVORE is blacker than the FIDELIO and so is STILL the blackest material that I have tested, totalling 44 number materials now



Very interesting Nigel. Do you know of any measurements of the Whaley's Fabric pertaining to Acoustic Transparency? Is there a US source for this fabric? Thanks in advance
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post #6272 of 6289 Old 07-11-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
From my recollection, Whaleys is around $25 a yard imported in bulk, and the Fidelio is $12/foot $36/yard. The price has gone up on triple velvet but still in the $5 a yard neighborhood. Whaleys direct from manufacturer, Seymour carries Fidelio, and Amazon has triple velvet in 30 yard bolts for the best rate.



edit: misremembered Fidelio...







A shag area rug will be fine, Scottie. You can walk on it and it won't look out of place on top of wall to wall.


What’s sucks is that it’s a really abnormal shape. I run JTRs, which aren’t small at all and have a huge footprint in front of the screen. So I’d need to cover that space. I think I’d need several rugs.
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post #6273 of 6289 Old 07-11-2019, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
What’s sucks is that it’s a really abnormal shape. I run JTRs, which aren’t small at all and have a huge footprint in front of the screen. So I’d need to cover that space. I think I’d need several rugs.
Anything not white will be better than what you have. I can't imagine it would cost that much to have a border sewn on a commercial carpet cut to size. I have a black shag runner all the way across the front then a traditional Persian/Asian style rug that covers the space between seating and the runner.
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post #6274 of 6289 Old 07-11-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
Anything not white will be better than what you have. I can't imagine it would cost that much to have a border sewn on a commercial carpet cut to size. I have a black shag runner all the way across the front then a traditional Persian/Asian style rug that covers the space between seating and the runner.


That what I’m thinking of doing actually. Either that or I’ll velvet wrap some exercise mats cut to size. Lol.
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post #6275 of 6289 Old 07-12-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
From my recollection, Whaleys is around $25 a yard imported in bulk, and the Fidelio is $12/foot $36/yard. The price has gone up on triple velvet but still in the $5 a yard neighborhood. Whaleys direct from manufacturer, Seymour carries Fidelio, and Amazon has triple velvet in 30 yard bolts for the best rate.

edit: misremembered Fidelio...



A shag area rug will be fine, Scottie. You can walk on it and it won't look out of place on top of wall to wall.

Wow, whaleys and fidelio are proud of their stuff at those prices!

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post #6276 of 6289 Old 07-12-2019, 03:10 PM
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Suggestions on how to blackout the first 3-5 ft of my setup (ceiling and side walls)?

Multi-use room and that is a hallway off to the side of the display. Pull down attic access in the ceiling - have to custom cover that thing some how.

Just staple velvet to the walls? Build something? Waf - HOW? lol

Suggestions? Thoughts?

Thanks!

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post #6277 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Suggestions on how to blackout the first 3-5 ft of my setup (ceiling and side walls)?

Multi-use room and that is a hallway off to the side of the display. Pull down attic access in the ceiling - have to custom cover that thing some how.

Just staple velvet to the walls? Build something? Waf - HOW? lol

Suggestions? Thoughts?

Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Since this is A multi-purpose room I would hang Black velvet curtains, this way they can be moved when not needed, as far as your attic access just thumbtack or staple black velvet to it, than separate velvet around it so that it would still be accessible.

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post #6278 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by skypop View Post
Since this is A multi-purpose room I would hang Black velvet curtains, this way they can be moved when not needed, as far as your attic access just thumbtack or staple black velvet to it, than separate velvet around it so that it would still be accessible.
Thanks.

I thought about doing curtains, but in my mind it seems curtains would be a bit more obtrusive, whereas something fixed to the wall/ceiling might have a higher Waf (if I could do it right).

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post #6279 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Thanks.

I thought about doing curtains, but in my mind it seems curtains would be a bit more obtrusive, whereas something fixed to the wall/ceiling might have a higher Waf (if I could do it right).

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To me curtains seem more useful this way you can pull them out of the way when not needed. Having a room that half of it is blacked when it doesn't have to be may not have a high WAF. Either way will help your picture immensely.
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post #6280 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 09:59 AM
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While I know it's not black, but a nice dark velvet curtain that can be pulled back might be more WAF. The walls could be a more neutral color. The curtains would offer nice contrast when pulled back, making the room look more normal. Then darkens up nicely when you pull them out.

As much as I know black is king, I was contemplating going with a dark burgundy to contrast the beige walls. Could do a deep navy as well.

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post #6281 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dbpaddler View Post
While I know it's not black, but a nice dark velvet curtain that can be pulled back might be more WAF. The walls could be a more neutral color. The curtains would offer nice contrast when pulled back, making the room look more normal. Then darkens up nicely when you pull them out.

As much as I know black is king, I was contemplating going with a dark burgundy to contrast the beige walls. Could do a deep navy as well.

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Ya, I was contemplating painting the walls a bit darker color (not black) to help soften the stark contrast I have going on now...that would provide a bit more Waf I'm sure.

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post #6282 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Ya, I was contemplating painting the walls a bit darker color (not black) to help soften the stark contrast I have going on now...that would provide a bit more Waf I'm sure.

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And gives her some involvement too. Pick a couple dark curtain colors and have her pick one to go with her paint color of choice for the walls. WAF increases when they get some say in it. Though that's generally universal in both sides. Then again, I'm single. What do I know?

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post #6283 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Suggestions on how to blackout the first 3-5 ft of my setup (ceiling and side walls)?

Multi-use room and that is a hallway off to the side of the display. Pull down attic access in the ceiling - have to custom cover that thing some how.

Just staple velvet to the walls? Build something? Waf - HOW? lol

Suggestions? Thoughts?

Thanks!
Can you show us pictures of the other sides of the room? Windows? already taken care of?

Can the attic access be opened with the screen mounted or do you have to take it down? Is there enough leeway for you to hang the screen case from the ceiling (off the last joist) instead of the wall, to allow a curtain track on the wall behind it?

Is that hall the only entry to the room? Have you considered hanging a door? Getting that spot black requires a curtain or a door. it will look odd without one or the other if you are blacking out the rest.

I like using a mock theatrical curtain at the edge of the black out space to delineate the transition into the room from the 2-5 feet of black. It costs very little and makes a professional presentation. Let your wife peruse the photos of finished theaters on the forum to get an idea what a darker room can look like, as well as compromised rooms with some strategic dark, and some contrasting light detail. Painting the room darker in general is an easier first step than going straight to fabric if you have to win her over.
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post #6284 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
Can you show us pictures of the other sides of the room? Windows? already taken care of?



Can the attic access be opened with the screen mounted or do you have to take it down? Is there enough leeway for you to hang the screen case from the ceiling (off the last joist) instead of the wall, to allow a curtain track on the wall behind it?



Is that hall the only entry to the room? Have you considered hanging a door? Getting that spot black requires a curtain or a door. it will look odd without one or the other if you are blacking out the rest.



I like using a mock theatrical curtain at the edge of the black out space to delineate the transition into the room from the 2-5 feet of black. It costs very little and makes a professional presentation. Let your wife peruse the photos of finished theaters on the forum to get an idea what a darker room can look like, as well as compromised rooms with some strategic dark, and some contrasting light detail. Painting the room darker in general is an easier first step than going straight to fabric if you have to win her over.
Thanks.

Yes, the attic access door can be opened as it is with the screen mounted there. If it were mounted to the ceiling it would not allow room to open the access door though.

This is the upstairs and the door way next to the screen leads to a bathroom and bedroom. I have considered adding a door, mainly if I didn't decide to do curtains.


In the photos, the opening behind the bar leads downstairs, and one window is on that wall, and one window next to the sectional.



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post #6285 of 6289 Old 07-13-2019, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Thanks.

Yes, the attic access door can be opened as it is with the screen mounted there. If it were mounted to the ceiling it would not allow room to open the access door though.

This is the upstairs and the door way next to the screen leads to a bathroom and bedroom. I have considered adding a door, mainly if I didn't decide to do curtains.


In the photos, the opening behind the bar leads downstairs, and one window is on that wall, and one window next to the sectional.
Makes more sense now. If it were my house, I'd black out the walls and ceiling in line with the placement of your black shag runner. In my current installation I also have a runner, and I use a false wall for framing off the blacked out area from the rest of the room. That won't work for you because of the hallway, but you could do that same thing with curtains, as I had in my first build, like this:


Thumbtack False Proscenium Theatrical Curtains:

pick a fabric for theatrical drapes that is not black but not too bright or distracting. Paint a 2x2 black, or a color to match fabric of choice, and attach across the ceiling above the edge of the carpet runner, the full width of the space. I would not include that little bit that extends to the right in front of the hall door, just to the corner of the wall. You will use thumbtacks to attach a strip of fabric to that bar to create a valence that will look like a raised main drape. Easier with a fabric that looks good on both sides (so not velvet, unless you fold it over). I don't recall how much fabric is needed for it, but I think it is about 1.5 times the width plus 1 or 2 times the height, depending on how wide you need the legs to hang at the edges. In your case I'd think 1 times height, and split the cloth unto two narrower strips the height of the room (plus a few inches).

For Valence, Tack one corner of the 1.5 times width piece to the front of the 2x2 at the far end, with the top edge folded toward the 2x2 and down with the tack the covered by the draping fabric. same at other end with the other corner. If you are using a one sided fabric you'd fold it over to join the edges with the good side out, then pin both corners together at each end. Next you find the middle, which will be near the floor in the middle of room, most likely, and tack it up the middle of the bar, again, fabric rolled over the tack. From here you keep bisecting each section putting another tack, repeatedly, until the tacks are only an inch or two apart. Precision is not too important, it looks more natural with some randomness. What you should have now is a piece of fabric hanging down that looks like a curtain bunched on a rod. To make the drapey look, you tack another row of bisecting folds up, but not as many as the first row. Starting in the middle, pull the bottom forward, lift it up and then fold it over on itself toward the 2x2 with a tack under it. get the tack at the height you need to raise the new bottom of the curtain to the height you want, which would be just above the light path from the projector to the screen so it does not throw any shadows. Push that tack into the center, then do the ends the same way, then start bisecting again until you are maybe 18 inches apart, and it should look like a pulled up theatrical drape.

The legs are just a piece of "ceiling height-length" fabric tacked to the back of the 2x2 at each edge. Tack one corner next to wall and one corner at the amount you want it to hang into the room. Looks like a foot or less in your install. Then just like the first step of valence, tack up the center and keep bisecting until it looks like a curtain hanging on each side of the room behind the valence.

Ceiling:

Behind the false curtains tack a sheet of black velvet, good side forward, to the back of the 2x2 the full width of the room. Either make a slit in the fabric to accommodate the screen hangers and lift the bottom edge up and tuck it over the top of the screen case, or take the screen down and reattach it after tacking the fabric up to the top of the walls all around. I would want to use the ceiling fabric to cover the white crown molding in the blacked out area.

Walls:

1) If using black velvet you can just tack/staple it up.
2) With other fabrics you may want to use furring strips or insulation panels.
3) A layer or two of ductliner insulation on the screen wall is always a good idea, so you might use this as an excuse to hang the ductliner between furring strips you use to attach fabric.
4) hanging dark curtains all around would be work

Door:

Hang a door and wrap it in your wall fabric, or put a curtain of your wall fabric in front of the opening.
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post #6286 of 6289 Old Yesterday, 01:06 AM
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What i understood from the beginning is that dark the background more bright will be the screen and this goes for the picture background as well.
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post #6287 of 6289 Old Yesterday, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
Makes more sense now. If it were my house, I'd black out the walls and ceiling in line with the placement of your black shag runner. In my current installation I also have a runner, and I use a false wall for framing off the blacked out area from the rest of the room. That won't work for you because of the hallway, but you could do that same thing with curtains, as I had in my first build, like this:





Thumbtack False Proscenium Theatrical Curtains:



pick a fabric for theatrical drapes that is not black but not too bright or distracting. Paint a 2x2 black, or a color to match fabric of choice, and attach across the ceiling above the edge of the carpet runner, the full width of the space. I would not include that little bit that extends to the right in front of the hall door, just to the corner of the wall. You will use thumbtacks to attach a strip of fabric to that bar to create a valence that will look like a raised main drape. Easier with a fabric that looks good on both sides (so not velvet, unless you fold it over). I don't recall how much fabric is needed for it, but I think it is about 1.5 times the width plus 1 or 2 times the height, depending on how wide you need the legs to hang at the edges. In your case I'd think 1 times height, and split the cloth unto two narrower strips the height of the room (plus a few inches).



For Valence, Tack one corner of the 1.5 times width piece to the front of the 2x2 at the far end, with the top edge folded toward the 2x2 and down with the tack the covered by the draping fabric. same at other end with the other corner. If you are using a one sided fabric you'd fold it over to join the edges with the good side out, then pin both corners together at each end. Next you find the middle, which will be near the floor in the middle of room, most likely, and tack it up the middle of the bar, again, fabric rolled over the tack. From here you keep bisecting each section putting another tack, repeatedly, until the tacks are only an inch or two apart. Precision is not too important, it looks more natural with some randomness. What you should have now is a piece of fabric hanging down that looks like a curtain bunched on a rod. To make the drapey look, you tack another row of bisecting folds up, but not as many as the first row. Starting in the middle, pull the bottom forward, lift it up and then fold it over on itself toward the 2x2 with a tack under it. get the tack at the height you need to raise the new bottom of the curtain to the height you want, which would be just above the light path from the projector to the screen so it does not throw any shadows. Push that tack into the center, then do the ends the same way, then start bisecting again until you are maybe 18 inches apart, and it should look like a pulled up theatrical drape.



The legs are just a piece of "ceiling height-length" fabric tacked to the back of the 2x2 at each edge. Tack one corner next to wall and one corner at the amount you want it to hang into the room. Looks like a foot or less in your install. Then just like the first step of valence, tack up the center and keep bisecting until it looks like a curtain hanging on each side of the room behind the valence.



Ceiling:



Behind the false curtains tack a sheet of black velvet, good side forward, to the back of the 2x2 the full width of the room. Either make a slit in the fabric to accommodate the screen hangers and lift the bottom edge up and tuck it over the top of the screen case, or take the screen down and reattach it after tacking the fabric up to the top of the walls all around. I would want to use the ceiling fabric to cover the white crown molding in the blacked out area.



Walls:



1) If using black velvet you can just tack/staple it up.

2) With other fabrics you may want to use furring strips or insulation panels.

3) A layer or two of ductliner insulation on the screen wall is always a good idea, so you might use this as an excuse to hang the ductliner between furring strips you use to attach fabric.

4) hanging dark curtains all around would be work



Door:



Hang a door and wrap it in your wall fabric, or put a curtain of your wall fabric in front of the opening.
Awesome, thanks!



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post #6288 of 6289 Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
Makes more sense now. If it were my house, I'd black out the walls and ceiling in line with the placement of your black shag runner. In my current installation I also have a runner, and I use a false wall for framing off the blacked out area from the rest of the room. That won't work for you because of the hallway, but you could do that same thing with curtains, as I had in my first build, like this:





Thumbtack False Proscenium Theatrical Curtains:



pick a fabric for theatrical drapes that is not black but not too bright or distracting. Paint a 2x2 black, or a color to match fabric of choice, and attach across the ceiling above the edge of the carpet runner, the full width of the space. I would not include that little bit that extends to the right in front of the hall door, just to the corner of the wall. You will use thumbtacks to attach a strip of fabric to that bar to create a valence that will look like a raised main drape. Easier with a fabric that looks good on both sides (so not velvet, unless you fold it over). I don't recall how much fabric is needed for it, but I think it is about 1.5 times the width plus 1 or 2 times the height, depending on how wide you need the legs to hang at the edges. In your case I'd think 1 times height, and split the cloth unto two narrower strips the height of the room (plus a few inches).



For Valence, Tack one corner of the 1.5 times width piece to the front of the 2x2 at the far end, with the top edge folded toward the 2x2 and down with the tack the covered by the draping fabric. same at other end with the other corner. If you are using a one sided fabric you'd fold it over to join the edges with the good side out, then pin both corners together at each end. Next you find the middle, which will be near the floor in the middle of room, most likely, and tack it up the middle of the bar, again, fabric rolled over the tack. From here you keep bisecting each section putting another tack, repeatedly, until the tacks are only an inch or two apart. Precision is not too important, it looks more natural with some randomness. What you should have now is a piece of fabric hanging down that looks like a curtain bunched on a rod. To make the drapey look, you tack another row of bisecting folds up, but not as many as the first row. Starting in the middle, pull the bottom forward, lift it up and then fold it over on itself toward the 2x2 with a tack under it. get the tack at the height you need to raise the new bottom of the curtain to the height you want, which would be just above the light path from the projector to the screen so it does not throw any shadows. Push that tack into the center, then do the ends the same way, then start bisecting again until you are maybe 18 inches apart, and it should look like a pulled up theatrical drape.



The legs are just a piece of "ceiling height-length" fabric tacked to the back of the 2x2 at each edge. Tack one corner next to wall and one corner at the amount you want it to hang into the room. Looks like a foot or less in your install. Then just like the first step of valence, tack up the center and keep bisecting until it looks like a curtain hanging on each side of the room behind the valence.



Ceiling:



Behind the false curtains tack a sheet of black velvet, good side forward, to the back of the 2x2 the full width of the room. Either make a slit in the fabric to accommodate the screen hangers and lift the bottom edge up and tuck it over the top of the screen case, or take the screen down and reattach it after tacking the fabric up to the top of the walls all around. I would want to use the ceiling fabric to cover the white crown molding in the blacked out area.



Walls:



1) If using black velvet you can just tack/staple it up.

2) With other fabrics you may want to use furring strips or insulation panels.

3) A layer or two of ductliner insulation on the screen wall is always a good idea, so you might use this as an excuse to hang the ductliner between furring strips you use to attach fabric.

4) hanging dark curtains all around would be work



Door:



Hang a door and wrap it in your wall fabric, or put a curtain of your wall fabric in front of the opening.
If I stop the black material at where the wall transitions, it will only 28.5 out from the screen. Do you think that is enough area? Most people seem to recommend blacking out the front 4-5ft.

My attic access drop down trim is roughly that se 28.5" out from the wall, so I would make for a more pleasing appearance, but I'm note sure about its end result vs going out much further...

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
If I stop the black material at where the wall transitions, it will only 28.5 out from the screen. Do you think that is enough area? Most people seem to recommend blacking out the front 4-5ft.

My attic access drop down trim is roughly that se 28.5" out from the wall, so I would make for a more pleasing appearance, but I'm note sure about its end result vs going out much further...

Thoughts?

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Again, if it were my house, I would not go past that point. I would darken the rest of the room, certainly, but given the nature of the room I would keep the velvet neat in that area by the screen. Maybe try the minimal as suggested and decide from there if you want a darker ceiling or walls in the rest of the room. Treating the projection wall itself is the most important thing, after blocking out windows.
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