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post #6511 of 6641 Old 09-11-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Buddylee123 View Post
Have you tried Benjamin Moore Century in OBSIDIAN? It's expensive, but I thought it looked great and very black. Here is what they say about cleaning.



6. Is the finish washable? Will cleaning affect the appearance?

After the full cure period of two weeks, Century painted surfaces can be lightly washed with a mild soap and water mixture without affecting the appearance.

Have you actually painted it on you wall? How does it compare to Rosco? It may have too much sheen. Maybe I will buy some and test.


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post #6512 of 6641 Old 09-11-2019, 01:20 PM
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Have you actually painted it on you wall? How does it compare to Rosco? It may have too much sheen. Maybe I will buy some and test.


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I am with you I need somebody to verify. Looking black and not reflecting light are two different things. I could care less how black it looks. I care more that doesn't reflect light back onto my screen. Luckily I covered my whole basement theater in triple black velvet 2 years ago so no more painting for me.

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post #6513 of 6641 Old 09-11-2019, 01:28 PM
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Have you actually painted it on you wall? How does it compare to Rosco? It may have too much sheen. Maybe I will buy some and test.


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I bought a sample and tried it next to my front wall which is painted Tricorn Black. It looked just as black to me but had much less sheen than the Tricorn Black. I like Tricorn Black, but for flat it has always had more sheen than I expected, maybe my contractor got the wrong paint lol. I haven't tried Rosco because I don't want to deal with the smudges, thats an automatic no for me.
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post #6514 of 6641 Old 09-11-2019, 03:52 PM
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Hi, yes the magnets are behind the frame and the panels are flush with the forward edge of the frame. This frame is ~3" wide and about 2.5" deep so with the panels on I have ~1" between the back of the panel and screen material.

You will be fine as long as the panels aren't directly touching the screen material.
Great - thank you very much.
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post #6515 of 6641 Old 09-11-2019, 08:17 PM
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The Blacker the Theater, The Better the Image

Has anyone tried Black 3.0? I know we tried the first version when it came out, but they seem to have improved it a lot since then. They say Black 2.0 absorbed 96% of light and 3.0 absorbs 98% to 99% of light.

https://www.culturehustleusa.com/pro...ic-paint-150ml



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post #6516 of 6641 Old 09-11-2019, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Buddylee123 View Post
Has anyone tried Black 3.0? I know we tried the first version when it came out, but they seem to have improved it a lot since then. They say Black 2.0 absorbed 96% of light and 3.0 absorbs 98% to 99% of light.
Stuart's not getting one over on me again.. those videos are fooling the eye since there is no frame of reference of real black to compare to. This 2.0 looks really black in the bottle but much less so on white paper and just dark grey when compared to the velvet. It's nearly identical to the Rosco (Black 2.0 small circle to right of bottle).

if he's that confident, send over a sample, i'll demo it next to the 2.0 product.

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post #6517 of 6641 Old 09-12-2019, 05:05 AM
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I have done a lot of searches on this thread to try to get definitive answers to my concerns, but still feel the need to post!

I want to wrap my room in the equivalent of triple black velvet (double black in Australia). That means ceiling, some parts of the side walls and rear wall in velvet-wrapped panels, and most of the side walls in velvet curtains (because that's an easy way to cover some doors and cupboards).

I'm wondering how this will affect acoustics in the room. I do have an Anthem AV receiver, so can run some EQ. But would, say, acoustic panels at first reflection point still be a good idea, and if so, would they be OK behind the curtains? There are currently some panels on the rear wall (pic attached). Those outside diffuser panels, according to a flashlight test, throw way too much light back on to the screen. The rectangular peaks are quite reflective. So should I just get rid of those panels altogether, or just build a frame around them covered in velvet? The seats will be replaced with new black ones.

Secondly, I'd like to double check the best way to install velvet with regard to sheen. Is the idea, with the projector displaying something bright, to install the velvet so that I can't see sheen from the seating position? Presumably that means that if I stand at the screen looking back towards the seating position, I will see the sheen, meaning that some light will be reflecting back on to the screen. Which way is best?

Thanks for any tips.
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post #6518 of 6641 Old 09-12-2019, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Stuart's not getting one over on me again.. those videos are fooling the eye since there is no frame of reference of real black to compare to. This 2.0 looks really black in the bottle but much less so on white paper and just dark grey when compared to the velvet. It's nearly identical to the Rosco (Black 2.0 small circle to right of bottle).

if he's that confident, send over a sample, i'll demo it next to the 2.0 product.



Lol maybe you can talk him into sending you a sample


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post #6519 of 6641 Old 09-13-2019, 12:26 PM
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MIT claims to have bested Vantablack:

http://news.mit.edu/2019/blackest-bl...erial-cnt-0913
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post #6520 of 6641 Old 09-14-2019, 10:48 AM
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MIT claims to have bested Vantablack:

http://news.mit.edu/2019/blackest-bl...erial-cnt-0913
The results showed that the material absorbed at least 99.995 percent of incoming light, from every angle. In other words, it reflected 10 times less light than all other superblack materials, including Vantablack. If the material contained bumps or ridges, or features of any kind, no matter what angle it was viewed from, these features would be invisible, obscured in a void of black.

Optical instruments like cameras and telescopes have to get rid of unwanted glare, so you can see what you want to see,” Mather says. “Would you like to see an Earth orbiting another star? We need something very black. … And this black has to be tough to withstand a rocket launch. Old versions were fragile forests of fur, but these are more like pot scrubbers — built to take abuse."


Wow that's impressive, it sounds like they are trying to make it more resilient. We should let them know there is a Home Theater market waiting for this product
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post #6521 of 6641 Old 09-14-2019, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
MIT claims to have bested Vantablack:

http://news.mit.edu/2019/blackest-bl...erial-cnt-0913
The results showed that the material absorbed at least 99.995 percent of incoming light, from every angle. In other words, it reflected 10 times less light than all other superblack materials, including Vantablack. If the material contained bumps or ridges, or features of any kind, no matter what angle it was viewed from, these features would be invisible, obscured in a void of black.

Optical instruments like cameras and telescopes have to get rid of unwanted glare, so you can see what you want to see,” Mather says. “Would you like to see an Earth orbiting another star? We need something very black. … And this black has to be tough to withstand a rocket launch. Old versions were fragile forests of fur, but these are more like pot scrubbers — built to take abuse."


Wow that's impressive, it sounds like they are trying to make it more resilient. We should let them know there is a Home Theater market waiting for this product [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
It is grown on aluminum. Should be possible to apply to DLP chips, projector light paths, lens casings, etc., to improve contrast,
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post #6522 of 6641 Old 09-14-2019, 04:15 PM
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I have done a lot of searches on this thread to try to get definitive answers to my concerns, but still feel the need to post!

I want to wrap my room in the equivalent of triple black velvet (double black in Australia). That means ceiling, some parts of the side walls and rear wall in velvet-wrapped panels, and most of the side walls in velvet curtains (because that's an easy way to cover some doors and cupboards).

I'm wondering how this will affect acoustics in the room. I do have an Anthem AV receiver, so can run some EQ. But would, say, acoustic panels at first reflection point still be a good idea, and if so, would they be OK behind the curtains? There are currently some panels on the rear wall (pic attached). Those outside diffuser panels, according to a flashlight test, throw way too much light back on to the screen. The rectangular peaks are quite reflective. So should I just get rid of those panels altogether, or just build a frame around them covered in velvet? The seats will be replaced with new black ones.

Secondly, I'd like to double check the best way to install velvet with regard to sheen. Is the idea, with the projector displaying something bright, to install the velvet so that I can't see sheen from the seating position? Presumably that means that if I stand at the screen looking back towards the seating position, I will see the sheen, meaning that some light will be reflecting back on to the screen. Which way is best?

Thanks for any tips.
Anyone?
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post #6523 of 6641 Old 09-14-2019, 08:06 PM
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Anyone?
The fabric treatment will attenuate high frequencies and suppress any flutter echo you may have in the space.

You should be able to calibrate back your desired eq response.

You may notice what is called "dead end" response in the room due to the reduced reflections on the surfaces treated with fabric. A dead end acoustic design feels more accurate to me versus a live end design, but it can be a weird change.

Good luck with the new treatments.

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post #6524 of 6641 Old 09-15-2019, 05:30 PM
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The fabric treatment will attenuate high frequencies and suppress any flutter echo you may have in the space.

You should be able to calibrate back your desired eq response.

You may notice what is called "dead end" response in the room due to the reduced reflections on the surfaces treated with fabric. A dead end acoustic design feels more accurate to me versus a live end design, but it can be a weird change.

Good luck with the new treatments.
Thanks for that. Those panels on the back wall are supposed to disperse the sound from in ceiling rears (mounted in the bulkhead), so I might have to come up with a way to keep those, but minimise the reflections. Do you have any experience with the velvet orientation with regard to sheen?
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post #6525 of 6641 Old 09-15-2019, 06:14 PM
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Thanks for that. Those panels on the back wall are supposed to disperse the sound from in ceiling rears (mounted in the bulkhead), so I might have to come up with a way to keep those, but minimise the reflections. Do you have any experience with the velvet orientation with regard to sheen?
Sorry, no experience with velvet.

I use black felt to cover the 2'x4'x4" fiber board panels used on my side walls, and the felt does not have a sheen. I use Rosco black paint everywhere else. Not as good as felt, but does the job to my satisfaction.

My felt on the side panels and carpeted floor do enough to take flutter and higher eq reflections, and the 4" thickness does some minor standing wave correction, as well as any base - lower mid reinforcement coming from the front left/right corners. 6-8" would be better, but 4" is working out fine for me in my 16'x25' space.

Regarding sheen... maybe use a test sample, hold in the palm of your hand and spin it to see which orientation provides the most reduction in sheen? Then use that orientation when mounting.

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post #6526 of 6641 Old 09-16-2019, 01:45 AM
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Regarding sheen... maybe use a test sample, hold in the palm of your hand and spin it to see which orientation provides the most reduction in sheen? Then use that orientation when mounting.
Yeh, easy enough to do that, but I’m wondering what exactly the best orientation is. So should I see no sheen from the seating position, or no sheen from the screen looking back to the seating position?

If I see sheen on, say, the ceiling from the seating position, does that mean I’m seeing light coming back from the screen, or light bouncing back at me from the projector illuminating the velvet? And if I see sheen when looking back from the screen, am I seeing light from the projector that is bouncing off the ceiling and potentially on to the screen, or light from the screen going to the ceiling and back at the screen?
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post #6527 of 6641 Old 09-16-2019, 02:05 AM
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Yeh, easy enough to do that, but I’m wondering what exactly the best orientation is. So should I see no sheen from the seating position, or no sheen from the screen looking back to the seating position?

If I see sheen on, say, the ceiling from the seating position, does that mean I’m seeing light coming back from the screen, or light bouncing back at me from the projector illuminating the velvet? And if I see sheen when looking back from the screen, am I seeing light from the projector that is bouncing off the ceiling and potentially on to the screen, or light from the screen going to the ceiling and back at the screen?
Great point. I didn't consider sheen which might reflect light back to the screen, vs sheen you see from your seats. Seems like a no win.

For immersion, no sheen at your seats.

For best ansi contrast performance, no sheen back to screen.

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post #6528 of 6641 Old 09-16-2019, 04:52 PM
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Great point. I didn't consider sheen which might reflect light back to the screen, vs sheen you see from your seats. Seems like a no win.

For immersion, no sheen at your seats.

For best ansi contrast performance, no sheen back to screen.
Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I think most people have no sheen from the seating position, right?

I suppose it might be that I can orient the velvet so the sheen is "sideways", so no sheen from seat or screen. I'll have to have a play when the time comes!
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post #6529 of 6641 Old 09-16-2019, 06:46 PM
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Interesting topic... I personally enjoy watching movies in bed. I found using an ipad with a stand placed on my nightstand works really well for the same effect.

Simply buy some good 5.1 headphones and plug them into your ipad. Then buy yourself a black velvet blanket.

Step 1. Plug in headphones
Step 2. Turn on ipad movie
Step 3. Take blanket and cover your head and ipad making a tent.

Emmersive!!!

Sorry I couldnt resist.

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post #6530 of 6641 Old 09-17-2019, 09:31 AM
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Interesting topic... I personally enjoy watching movies in bed. I found using an ipad with a stand placed on my nightstand works really well for the same effect.

Simply buy some good 5.1 headphones and plug them into your ipad. Then buy yourself a black velvet blanket.

Step 1. Plug in headphones
Step 2. Turn on ipad movie
Step 3. Take blanket and cover your head and ipad making a tent.

Emmersive!!!

Sorry I couldnt resist.
You mean porn?
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post #6531 of 6641 Old 09-17-2019, 09:53 AM
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The Blacker the Theater, The Better the Image

Quote:
Originally Posted by sddawson View Post
I have done a lot of searches on this thread to try to get definitive answers to my concerns, but still feel the need to post!



I want to wrap my room in the equivalent of triple black velvet (double black in Australia). That means ceiling, some parts of the side walls and rear wall in velvet-wrapped panels, and most of the side walls in velvet curtains (because that's an easy way to cover some doors and cupboards).



I'm wondering how this will affect acoustics in the room. I do have an Anthem AV receiver, so can run some EQ. But would, say, acoustic panels at first reflection point still be a good idea, and if so, would they be OK behind the curtains? There are currently some panels on the rear wall (pic attached). Those outside diffuser panels, according to a flashlight test, throw way too much light back on to the screen. The rectangular peaks are quite reflective. So should I just get rid of those panels altogether, or just build a frame around them covered in velvet? The seats will be replaced with new black ones.



Secondly, I'd like to double check the best way to install velvet with regard to sheen. Is the idea, with the projector displaying something bright, to install the velvet so that I can't see sheen from the seating position? Presumably that means that if I stand at the screen looking back towards the seating position, I will see the sheen, meaning that some light will be reflecting back on to the screen. Which way is best?



Thanks for any tips.

There is a lot to unpack here. Generally velvet has more reduction of sound transmission vs speaker cloth. If I were you I would wrap the back diffuser in Mellotone speaker cloth from Parts express. It would provide a huge reduction in reflection but also be almost 100% transparent regarding sound.

It sounds like you don’t have any absorbers in your room so there is likely way too much echo now so you do need absorbers on the side walls and possibly ceiling. Of course these could be wrapped in velvet but it would affect their ability to absorb some frequencies.

Regarding velvet sheen I believe it will be such a huge change from what you have now that any sheen would be negligible.

Also be careful with velvet. I went from fairly dark blue walls to Rosco Video paint (better than Rosco super saturated in ArrowAV test and in my testing at home) and it made my entire theater ultra dark. If it was velvet it would be a bit ominous in my opinion. My plan is to only put velvet on the side walls out about 5-6 ft since the Rosco Video paint looks so dark compared to my previous wall color. Rosco will smudge easily but the walls are so dark you won’t notice it unless you are looking for it with a flashlight.


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Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420

Last edited by farsider3000; 09-17-2019 at 09:56 AM.
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post #6532 of 6641 Old 09-18-2019, 06:33 PM
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There is a lot to unpack here. Generally velvet has more reduction of sound transmission vs speaker cloth. If I were you I would wrap the back diffuser in Mellotone speaker cloth from Parts express. It would provide a huge reduction in reflection but also be almost 100% transparent regarding sound.

It sounds like you don’t have any absorbers in your room so there is likely way too much echo now so you do need absorbers on the side walls and possibly ceiling. Of course these could be wrapped in velvet but it would affect their ability to absorb some frequencies.

Regarding velvet sheen I believe it will be such a huge change from what you have now that any sheen would be negligible.

Also be careful with velvet. I went from fairly dark blue walls to Rosco Video paint (better than Rosco super saturated in ArrowAV test and in my testing at home) and it made my entire theater ultra dark. If it was velvet it would be a bit ominous in my opinion. My plan is to only put velvet on the side walls out about 5-6 ft since the Rosco Video paint looks so dark compared to my previous wall color. Rosco will smudge easily but the walls are so dark you won’t notice it unless you are looking for it with a flashlight.


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Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have thought about building a frame around the rear diffusers and using speaker cloth. Best of both worlds then.

If I have velvet curtains on the side walls, would they act as an absorber? If not enough, could I then put panels behind the curtains?

My ceiling is currently Rosco velour paint. I already have side velvet curtains (with a bit too much sheen), and the rear of the room is a normal flat black (which looks grey in comparison to the Rosco, which in turn looks grey compared to the velvet I'm thinking of using). I know what you mean by "ominous" though. With the projector off, you can't see your hand in front of your face, and it is a bit weird. I was thinking that more velvet probably wouldn't make it worse, but will stop the reflections I have now. So hard to know what actual difference it would make though.
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post #6533 of 6641 Old 09-24-2019, 06:23 AM
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anyone draping velvet over speakers and wanting tighter /more plush hold on the sides - I've been using small strips of gorilla tape TO -G0- Portable rolled in cylinder shape for 2 sided grip-
has held nicely for some time -

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post #6534 of 6641 Old 09-25-2019, 07:32 PM
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I have a dedicated movie room that is completely dark. I have the Epson 5050, and I put some black velvet on the 2 side walls, and on the ceiling. The velvet on the ceiling goes back about 3 feet, but I do have enough velvet left to go back about another 2 feet. It won't be easy to do because there are some recessed lights in the ceiling, so I'd have to cut out around them. Would it be worth the trouble to add that extra 2 feet, or will it not be noticable with the picture quality?

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post #6535 of 6641 Old 09-25-2019, 11:50 PM
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I have a dedicated movie room that is completely dark. I have the Epson 5050, and I put some black velvet on the 2 side walls, and on the ceiling. The velvet on the ceiling goes back about 3 feet, but I do have enough velvet left to go back about another 2 feet. It won't be easy to do because there are some recessed lights in the ceiling, so I'd have to cut out around them. Would it be worth the trouble to add that extra 2 feet, or will it not be noticable with the picture quality?

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Regarding light getting reflected back to the screen, you might have covered enough to make a big difference.

Regarding what is observable in your field of view during movie viewing, you kinda have to go far enough to eliminate any sheen reflections from the ceiling, floor or side walls.

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post #6536 of 6641 Old 09-26-2019, 04:50 AM
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Regarding light getting reflected back to the screen, you might have covered enough to make a big difference.



Regarding what is observable in your field of view during movie viewing, you kinda have to go far enough to eliminate any sheen reflections from the ceiling, floor or side walls.
So are you saying that while I'm watching a movie, if I see any reflection from the screen on any painted surface, then technically those areas should be covered with velvet?

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post #6537 of 6641 Old 09-26-2019, 04:59 AM
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So are you saying that while I'm watching a movie, if I see any reflection from the screen on any painted surface, then technically those areas should be covered with velvet?

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Aesthetically, yes. Technically, not sure in your room.

I say aesthetically because the main reason I blacked out my room, was for immersion that comes from only seeing the screen, with no other visual distractions.

But as far as how any light in the room is being reflected back to your screen and contaminating your projected image ... I'd say it then becomes a matter of degree and where you can find your own satisfaction or bliss.

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post #6538 of 6641 Old 09-26-2019, 05:10 AM
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Aesthetically, yes. Technically, not sure in your room.



I say aesthetically because the main reason I blacked out my room, was for immersion that comes from only seeing the screen, with no other visual distractions.



But as far as how any light in the room is being reflected back to your screen and contaminating your projected image ... I'd say it then becomes a matter of degree and where you can find your own satisfaction or bliss.
Gotcha. The whole room, including the ceiling, is painted in flat Sherwin Williams Peppercorn, which is a pretty dark color.

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post #6539 of 6641 Old 09-26-2019, 05:21 AM
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Gotcha. The whole room, including the ceiling, is painted in flat Sherwin Williams Peppercorn, which is a pretty dark color.

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Thanks for that follow up. Imho, you have covered the bases technically.

Now it's just a matter of how well your uncovered black paint performs. Using just enough fabric to keep sheen out of your personal viewing, is all I would do.

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post #6540 of 6641 Old 09-26-2019, 05:28 AM
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Thanks for that follow up. Imho, you have covered the bases technically.



Now it's just a matter of how well your uncovered black paint performs. Using just enough fabric to keep sheen out of your personal viewing, is all I would do.
Knowing me, I'll be tortured wondering if that extra 2 feet would help, so one day when I'm bored, I'll end up doing it. Thanks for all the info !

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