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post #7081 of 7092 Old 01-07-2020, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemannthey View Post
Well it has started

Back when progressive scan DVD players were all the rage I build a proper bat cave. Soft front black felt wall, flat black ceiling very dark flat walls. Solid room 7 channels and an dozen subs in an ib config.....

3 years ago we moved.

I left a basic projector and took the Tru Vue Vango (nice 1080p led dlp) with me.

No dedicated room In the current place but a more family room spot .

We decided to work on the room and we are in the process of setting up a curtain bat cave (black velvet sides and ceiling 6-9 feet into the room) . We sit 9-10 feet from 100 inches today. 6 +8 feel will be a healthy amount darkening should help.

Javs soft room pics in this thread really inspired the design.

The wife just painted the front wall a very dark color that goes with the room (and I moved all the equipment to a closet) and the first part of the ceiling curtain track will be here by the weekend. 2 side currtin tracks will be about 13 feet apart and will continue me out to where we sit. The curtain will allow the darkness to pull back as needed. I didn't want a full-time bat cave in this space.

There might be phase 2 to curtain off the rear wall as budget allows. The curtain track I'ma getting mounts to the ceiling and has 90 degree bends so lots of options.

Phase 1 side curtain are staring with pre made black velvet curtains off amazon.


For the ceiling I would like to have a retractable curtain ceiling. 12-13 feet wide connect to tracks both sides.

I see 2 basic paths:
1. Join 2 premade curtains. Limited velvet options but joing 2 curtains would be the "easy" option.

2. Make a curtain out of a recommend velvet (triple velvet or Royal from Jo Ann's) . Good velvet but the time effort to make it (I have a few ideas) .

So the question is: coming from a light colored room with a white celing both options will make a real difference. Is the difference between dark velvets that noticable? This room will never be a total black bat cave to support ultra super duper contrast it will still be a family room.

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Hi,

In my experience, trying to adapt a ready-made object into altering its original functionality is often more work than starting from scratch, the exception being if the ready-made object requires barely any modifications. I'm assuming you mean joining the curtains bottom with bottom, to make use of the existing rings. When joining 2 velvet curtains this ways they might not reflect light in the same direction. It might look not so great with the lights on. In the dark, it may go unnoticed, depending on how dark it is. Not to mention there are already 2 ready-made curtains on the sides. Using only the velvet material will maybe demand more work, but if done properly it will look better. I would say the differences in velvet types are more noticeable when looking at the velvet than when looking at the image, but one of the goals of using the darkest velvet is to make everything disappear around the screen. If you don't really care about this kind of experience, go for the easiest solution.

4,3 x 2,8m semi-blacked out media room | 2010 MacMini > Pioneer VSX-520-K > JVC RS50 (X7) > 107", 1.1 gain, white screen | JVC X30 (RS45)
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post #7082 of 7092 Old 01-07-2020, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Here is the DIY thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...p-masking.html

Velvet doesn’t snag. It is all hidden in a soffit. Bottom has a weighted bar. I really was torn between a 16:9 vs scope screen when I upgraded this screen. But we watch a lot of non-movie content, play games, etc. probably 50% of the time. But now, with the top masking, it looks like a 2.4 screen. The roller has only 2 down stops available without manually controlling (you can spend more $ on a system that gives you unlimited if you want). I picked 2.4 and 1.85 for the down drops (at this time). Anything else I can have my Lumagen Pro scale to the closest. My control system reads the content and controls everything. Never touch a button. One of the best things I’ve ever added. I would have purchased a masking system if someone sold one like this. In fact, I should have done this when I purchased the screen but don’t believe Stewart sells a wall mounted retractable screen with top masking. Probably saved a ton of money because it would have been expensive. My wife thought I was crazy and didn’t mind the black bars when watching movies. She changed her mind after seeing this in action.
Impressed you were able to pull that off, nice job. That looks like a good way to do it if masking a 16:9 to scope, not sure it would help those of us with scope screens. I'm going to try the actuator method for my scope, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I'm probably going to try something like this, but might have a look around in the DIY forums a bit more.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bundle-Kit-...8e506f7e60ef71

I'm just going to velcro the remote to the top of my recliner's arm rest somewhere probably at first, instead of converting to IR.
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Last edited by coderguy; 01-07-2020 at 03:22 PM.
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post #7083 of 7092 Old 01-07-2020, 01:57 PM
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@descalabro good points.

I do care about how things look with the lights off. I have 2 side curtain arriving today. I will have a better idea of how merging 2 together might look.

Thanks
Keith

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post #7084 of 7092 Old 01-07-2020, 02:35 PM
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Here is Markmon's thread where he went all out with motorized masking...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...c-masking.html

Here was my generic idea for side masking a scope screen (see image), but as noted I'll probably look in the forums for more info later before I do it. This is really cheap though for motorized masking a scope to 16:9 - 2:1 (under $150 total cost). Here it is in unproven form though I'd like to see a synchronized kit with less than 1% error, haven't found one yet for cheap...

This synchronized kit has 5% max error supposedly (same link I posted above)...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bundle-Kit-...8e506f7e60ef71
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post #7085 of 7092 Old 01-07-2020, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Impressed you were able to pull that off, nice job.
Thanks! I looked hard for a commercial product, but no luck. Probably turned out better because I was able to more easily integrate into my control system. Here's a quick iPhone shot with the masking down.


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post #7086 of 7092 Old 01-09-2020, 08:39 PM
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I looked into all the ways of doing a DIY motorized masking system. I did not like the bulkiness of the linear actuator motors, they kind of stick out a bit, they also seem overkill for such little amount of force needed.

Here are some other options, all these are around $100 to $150 or so for both sides, give or take

1) The simplest is to use a tubular motor and a piece of flocked velvet or TBV, like SJHT's design above. For scope screens though, this only gives the option of masking to one other aspect ratio, and you'd have to install 2 of them (one on each side). For those with 16:9 screens, you can use a multi-position one to do different aspects.

2) A more advanced system is a stepper motor that either extends a "screw-threaded rod", or runs a pulley system. This works with an Arduino controller. The advantage is it's less bulky than the standard linear actuators or the tubular motors, but the disadvantage is it's a lot more complicated to setup, and some of the motors are noisy (have to find the quieter ones). It could have potential reliability or snag issues if using the pulley system. The extending screw setup would be the most reliable of all the designs, and very easy to fix if it ever broke. Could attach a piece of loose-hanging flocked velvet with a small counter-weight on the bottom, or use a regular masking panel.

There are some complications in converting the rotary force of a stepper to a straight-line linear force if not using pulleys, or if you are not going only vertical (we are going horizontal for scope screens). I really want to completely avoid a pulley design if at all possible. There are side crank steppers available to convert rotary to linear automatically, but that is adding a lot BULK. The entire point of figuring out how to do this with smaller motors is to keep the thing more hidden, and not have to do much modifications to my screen wall area. I'm just letting the preliminary design ruminate until I figure out the most compact way to do this.

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Last edited by coderguy; 01-10-2020 at 06:42 AM.
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post #7087 of 7092 Old 01-10-2020, 05:22 PM
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I'm sure of the answer but still would like to confirm. If I'm building an absorber and have it wrap in Black Velvet, it wouldn't impact its effectiveness? Since Black Velvet absorbs high frequencies, having an acoustic fiber glass (703) wrapped into Black Velvet won't make any difference. That's my thought. Does anyone disagree?
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post #7088 of 7092 Old 01-10-2020, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
I'm sure of the answer but still would like to confirm. If I'm building an absorber and have it wrap in Black Velvet, it wouldn't impact its effectiveness? Since Black Velvet absorbs high frequencies, having an acoustic fiber glass (703) wrapped into Black Velvet won't make any difference. That's my thought. Does anyone disagree?
You are good. I have velvet over mine.
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post #7089 of 7092 Old 01-11-2020, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
I'm sure of the answer but still would like to confirm. If I'm building an absorber and have it wrap in Black Velvet, it wouldn't impact its effectiveness? Since Black Velvet absorbs high frequencies, having an acoustic fiber glass (703) wrapped into Black Velvet won't make any difference. That's my thought. Does anyone disagree?
I did some measurements before building my bass traps and panels, this is a comparison of my uncorrected center speaker with and without a layer of Whaleys devore black velvet, it's one data point for one type of velvet but it's the darkest velvet according to some tests earlier on in this thread.

I was happy enough with this result to use this velvet on all my bass traps and acoustic panels, the center speaker response looks significantly better now btw.
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post #7090 of 7092 Old 01-12-2020, 10:14 PM
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Until I decide if going the motorized route, for now, my solution was to just remove one panel from the magnets, and put it on the floor leaning against the screen. That way I can just get out of my chair and slide one panel over (no magnet re-attachments), so it's slightly easier, especially comparing it to having to reposition 2 panels on magnets at the same time. This new way is simpler, but it does cause the seating position to not be perfectly centered, but not by that much.

Here are some more tips for people doing their rooms.

1) If you go with the magnetic masking panels, always glue the magnets before laying the velvet, that way you can glue the magnets directly behind the fabric so they are invisible. Otherwise, after the fact, trying to slip a magnet under the velvet while it is covered in super glue is not an easy task without making a mess.

2) For scope screen owners, another alternative is to just lay the panels in front of the screen (if you make the masking panels tall enough). Then you can just move them without magnets, of course this only works for us scope screen owners, since if masking a 16:9 screen your panels will have to be horizontal in mid-air (need the magnets for sure).

3) If installing Velvet directly to the ceiling and walls without foamboard, you could create a molded seam and cover the tacked/stapled seams with very thin boards or rods also covered in velvet, or use the darkest faux leather material might look better --- though would light things up a bit, but it would be a thin layer to create the separation. Panels are definitely superior overall, I probably should have used panels, but my floor molding also was in the way, so would have been tricky regardless to get it lined up.

I haven't tried # 3, not sure I really care about perfect aesthetics since my lights are almost always out, I guess I care slightly.
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post #7091 of 7092 Old 01-13-2020, 06:08 PM
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hey guys, lots of building today! I was in the UK and decided to pull the trigger on the whaleys velvet (https://www.whaleys-bradford.ltd.uk/...t-black-devore).

Got 40m2 of it! R.I.P. my wallet :P ... but it's darker than dark! Wow, very impressive. 40m2 I can do pretty much the whole room now. I also moved the screen. More pics and details here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post59095320

See velvet pic attached. My plan to attach the velvet: thumb tacks ("punaises" in Dutch) ... the room has a lot of wood, I think it should be fine.
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post #7092 of 7092 Old 01-13-2020, 07:26 PM
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I posted in your other thread, but I really think if you are re-using the material, then panels will work much better to make the material last longer, otherwise wrinkle city on the second use.

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