The Blacker the Theater, The Better the Image - Page 257 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7681 of 7713 Old 06-29-2020, 03:59 AM
 
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its that beneficial for the ceiling? the side walls are already blacked out.
Ceiling reflections back onto the screen usually degrade picture quality the most due to the close proximity of the screen to the ceiling and the angle of the light being reflected back onto the screen. If you have 2 ft or more from your screen to your ceiling the negative effects are lessened but still will affect black levels and indirectly contrast. Light reflecting back onto the screen fro m any surface washes out the image. If you want to see how much light is reflecting back onto your screen from your ceiling turn out all the lights in your room at night. Stand in front of your screen facing out from it and shine your phone or flashlight onto the ceiling. Now look at how much light is being reflected back onto your screen. Any areas on your screen that are now illuminated are being negatively impacted by the reflections from the ceiling.

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post #7682 of 7713 Old 06-29-2020, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Ceiling reflections back onto the screen usually degrade picture quality the most due to the close proximity of the screen to the ceiling and the angle of the light being reflected back onto the screen. If you have 2 ft or more from your screen to your ceiling the negative effects are lessened but still will affect black levels and indirectly contrast. Light reflecting back onto the screen fro m any surface washes out the image. If you want to see how much light is reflecting back onto your screen from your ceiling turn out all the lights in your room at night. Stand in front of your screen facing out from it and shine your phone or flashlight onto the ceiling. Now look at how much light is being reflected back onto your screen. Any areas on your screen that are now illuminated are being negatively impacted by the reflections from the ceiling.

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So if I weren't going to do the entire ceiling, starting near the screen would be best?
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post #7683 of 7713 Old 06-29-2020, 06:41 AM
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So if I weren't going to do the entire ceiling, starting near the screen would be best?

Yes. More is better obviously, but you get your best bang for your buck the first 4-5 feet back from the screen.
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post #7684 of 7713 Old 06-29-2020, 06:52 AM
 
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So if I weren't going to do the entire ceiling, starting near the screen would be best?
I agree with @Mocs123 that the first 4-6 feet in front of the screen gives most bang for your buck.

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post #7685 of 7713 Old 06-29-2020, 07:18 AM
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I don't think I'll be doing velvet on the ceiling, but I'm doing the blackest black Behr has, in matte.

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post #7686 of 7713 Old 06-29-2020, 09:08 AM
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It took me 2.5 years to get round to adding a section of Devore velvet to clip above the screen to cover the first section of ceiling: I'd say it was once of the biggest improvements, though perhaps because with the sides and floor done it made the ceiling stand out more. I can't believe how much better the image looks now and no distractions in my eye line which I find really helps too.

As all my Devore is movable then I plan to take some photos of a paused scene showing the impact of each treatment; side curtains, floor covering and with the ceiling covering. I just need to find out how to use my DSLR to take photos manually so that the pictures will be consistent. Certainly in person it is a huge difference, going from washed out looking, to '3D' looking.

Next step is to make the ceiling cover a bit slicker and possibly come out a bit further than it does now...it's a slippery slope.
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post #7687 of 7713 Old 06-30-2020, 05:52 AM
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If you guys are adding a bunch of panels with velvet to your ceiling, how do you handle lighting?
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post #7688 of 7713 Old 06-30-2020, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hudson View Post
If you guys are adding a bunch of panels with velvet to your ceiling, how do you handle lighting?
You mean if you have recessed lights? I just cut out holes for them.

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post #7689 of 7713 Old 07-07-2020, 03:50 PM
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Hi everyone,

For those of you who are interested in seeing what a perfectly optimized room looks like here’s an example. The entire room has been finished in Whaley’s Black Velvet Devore (the blackest least light reflective fabric material in the world). This includes all of walls, columns, bulkheads, doors, skirtings, and ceiling (including the starfield ceilings). Additionally the blackest least light reflective carpet and rugs. Yielding a total absence of environmental reflections for maximum immersion and optimum video performance.










Here is a photo taken in HDR from the back of the theater with a movie playing and the lights off; wherein, as you can see, with the absence of environmental reflections all that is visible is the movie image surrounded by a black abyss, for the absolute ultimate with respect to immersion and video performance:




And in case you are interested here’s my build thread: The Manor Dedicated Home Theater


.

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post #7690 of 7713 Old 07-07-2020, 04:16 PM
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Stunning.
Incredible.
The best ever.
Will never be anything better even by Gates or Bezos.

Why, why, why such a tiny screen though?

UPDATE
I see the screen is quite large.
The screen looks small.
How far from the screen is the front row seating?

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post #7691 of 7713 Old 07-07-2020, 08:20 PM
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Hard to follow up that post of that crazy theatre room lol. Unfortunately in my modest space I still have a cutout in my ceiling for what used to be a fluorescent light but I have replaced with a multicolor led bulb. I like to be able to blast some colored light through the panel sometimes but am wondering if there is any way to cut down on the glare from the panel itself a little bit for regular theatre usage. It is a piece of prismatic clear that I bought from home depot and cut to size. Just wondering if putting some kind of stick on tinting might be worthwhile.

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post #7692 of 7713 Old 07-08-2020, 07:44 AM
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what do you guys do for surface mounted Halo lights? They all only come in bright white.

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post #7693 of 7713 Old 07-08-2020, 08:53 AM
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what do you guys do for surface mounted Halo lights? They all only come in bright white.
I ordered black pot light covers from Amazon.
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post #7694 of 7713 Old 07-08-2020, 08:56 AM
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I ordered black pot light covers from Amazon.
thanks but those are pot lights, I have the surface mounted halo lights - they are flat on the ceiling, not recessed.

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post #7695 of 7713 Old 07-09-2020, 11:17 AM
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First time posting! Im building my theater now and contemplating a diy star ceiling. I want to either paint a galaxy or go with velvet along with the fiber optic stars. Obviously the velvet would be darker for better picture but can anyone tell me how the stars look against the velvet. Does it still work well.
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post #7696 of 7713 Old 07-09-2020, 11:33 AM
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First time posting! Im building my theater now and contemplating a diy star ceiling. I want to either paint a galaxy or go with velvet along with the fiber optic stars. Obviously the velvet would be darker for better picture but can anyone tell me how the stars look against the velvet. Does it still work well.
Welcome to the forum!

Absolutely! This does not just work well it is in fact the ideal.

You see the star ceilings with respect this particular home theater? Well these have been done using the Whaley's Black Velvet Devore fabric material. The result is absolute ultimate with respect to Star Ceiling performance. Bright white stars against a 100% absolute black background. It literally cannot get any better than this. In this particular instance I used Wiedamark Star Ceiling Tiles, which were custom made to size, and I mailed them rolls of the Whaley's Black Velvet Devore fabric material to use instead of their usual black fabric material which whilst black is considerably more reflective and you can see the surface of the material. With the Whaley's Black Velvet Devore fabric material you literally cannot see the surface of the material. The effect is the bright white stars against a black abyss:

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Spoiler!

.
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post #7697 of 7713 Old 07-09-2020, 06:40 PM
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There's a paint line called Fine Paints of Europe, that Benjamin Moore carries. The flat black is super dark, easy to roll on, leaves no streaks when rolling, and scuffs wipe clean easily with a damp rag. It's pricey, but you get what you pay for. Since it's your ceiling, you might not care about the scuffs, so another choice would be the Rosco black. It scuffs pretty bad, but I doubt your ceiling would ever get scuffed up.

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Thanks biglen, I used the ben moore century black obsidian and really liked it on my back wall, but, they quit making it. Could you tell me a bit more about this paint. Fine Paints of Europe seems to be based in Holland looks like it is its own brand. JC Licht is the only retailer in IL. Is your recommendation the "Eurlolux interior flat" paint? If you have used it would you tell me how it was to apply and how the flat the finish was compared to some other popular choices here.

I do have rosco super sat on my front wall, and yeah, it scuffs...bad. Luckily I don't do much up there with all the speakers, acoustic panels and gear, but if you look at the paint hard enough it can leave a mark lol.

I am looking at repainting my front wall and ceiling for at least 10 ft or so. I just don't wanna start down the velvet road...not yet anyway.

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post #7698 of 7713 Old 07-09-2020, 07:53 PM
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Thanks biglen, I used the ben moore century black obsidian and really liked it on my back wall, but, they quit making it. Could you tell me a bit more about this paint. Fine Paints of Europe seems to be based in Holland looks like it is its own brand. JC Licht is the only retailer in IL. Is your recommendation the "Eurlolux interior flat" paint? If you have used it would you tell me how it was to apply and how the flat the finish was compared to some other popular choices here.



I do have rosco super sat on my front wall, and yeah, it scuffs...bad. Luckily I don't do much up there with all the speakers, acoustic panels and gear, but if you look at the paint hard enough it can leave a mark lol.



I am looking at repainting my front wall and ceiling for at least 10 ft or so. I just don't wanna start down the velvet road...not yet anyway.



Regards,
I bought the Fine Paints of Europe at a Benjamin Moore store near me. This is what I used. It rolled on nicely. It doesn't scuff easily, and if it ever does, they wipe right off with a damp cloth.

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post #7699 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 04:20 AM
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I bought the Fine Paints of Europe at a Benjamin Moore store near me. This is what I used. It rolled on nicely. It doesn't scuff easily, and if it ever does, they wipe right off with a damp cloth.

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Thanks so much.
Just what I was looking for.

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The fine paints of Europe line of paints is only sold at a few stores in each area. See list of retailers below.
It seems that goes on better than the Rosco paint and does not scuff. I am wondering if it is as black.

http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/retailers.aspx#NY
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post #7701 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 05:02 AM
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The fine paints of Europe line of paints is only sold at a few stores in each area. See list of retailers below.

It seems that goes on better than the Rosco paint and does not scuff. I am wondering if it is as black.



http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/retailers.aspx#NY
Even if it's not as dark as the Rosco paint, which I don't know if it is or not, the non scuff and easy roll on, outweigh it, in my opinion. The salesman at the store, who wasn't trying to sell it to me, because I went in there asking for it, was telling me that all the home theater installers in the area, use it exclusively.

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post #7702 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 05:06 AM
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Even if it's not as dark as the Rosco paint, which I don't know if it is or not, the non scuff and easy roll on, outweigh it, in my opinion. The salesman at the store, who wasn't trying to sell it to me, because I went in there asking for it, was telling me that all the home theater installers in the area, use it exclusively.

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It does seem like a good alternative to the Rosco. A close friend who has a H.T. near me used the Rosco on his ceiling and the scuf/paint marks can be seen. He has been looking for an alternative.
I will suggest the Paints of Europe black.
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post #7703 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 05:52 AM
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It does seem like a good alternative to the Rosco. A close friend who has a H.T. near me used the Rosco on his ceiling and the scuf/paint marks can be seen. He has been looking for an alternative.
I will suggest the Paints of Europe black.
If you are going to the extreme of black paint for the ceiling then why not go for the self adhesive black velvet flock material I used on the ceiling and walls, it's extremely close to the non-reflectiveness of triple velvet and two people could cover the entire walls and ceiling in a whole day, plus it's as thin as regular wallpaper.

I got my from an outfit in the UK but I am sure it has to be available else where in the world.
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honestly Behr Limousine Leather is plenty black and cheap. If I need darker then I'll probably just put velvet up there.

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post #7705 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 09:20 AM
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Hello
i am new to all of this so i am reading all of most of the comments here. WOW this is an amazing looking theater...congratulations. Was refering to post #4409 ...

I wanted to ask: does the "material property" of velvet in general serve as light refelction.
Not everyone wants to be in a completely blacked out room....so would using triple velvet of other colors on side walls still work? When you go to a movie theater, the only part/section to be blacked out is in the front with the screen..the rest of theater has color like dark reds, burgundys, purple, greys etc...
so if i were to get black for the front and few feet out from screen and ceiling, can the side walls be a different color velvet?
thank you in advance....

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Hello
i am new to all of this so i am reading all of most of the comments here. WOW this is an amazing looking theater...congratulations. Was refering to post #4409 ...

I wanted to ask: does the "material property" of velvet in general serve as light refelction.
Not everyone wants to be in a completely blacked out room....so would using triple velvet of other colors on side walls still work? When you go to a movie theater, the only part/section to be blacked out is in the front with the screen..the rest of theater has color like dark reds, burgundys, purple, greys etc...
so if i were to get black for the front and few feet out from screen and ceiling, can the side walls be a different color velvet?
thank you in advance....
All the movie theatres I have been are as you said, black on the screen wall, black on the ceiling in the form of suspended ceiling tiles and red velvet material on the side walls, the only thing is that I’ve yet to experience a commercial theatre with even the levels of blacks my Epson has. So with that in mind I think yes it’s important to do as much black as possible if you are interested in the very best image you can get.
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post #7707 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sergio Barrena View Post
Hello
i am new to all of this so i am reading all of most of the comments here. WOW this is an amazing looking theater...congratulations. Was refering to post #4409 ...

I wanted to ask: does the "material property" of velvet in general serve as light refelction.
Not everyone wants to be in a completely blacked out room....so would using triple velvet of other colors on side walls still work? When you go to a movie theater, the only part/section to be blacked out is in the front with the screen..the rest of theater has color like dark reds, burgundys, purple, greys etc...
so if i were to get black for the front and few feet out from screen and ceiling, can the side walls be a different color velvet?
thank you in advance....
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All the movie theatres I have been are as you said, black on the screen wall, black on the ceiling in the form of suspended ceiling tiles and red velvet material on the side walls, the only thing is that I’ve yet to experience a commercial theatre with even the levels of blacks my Epson has. So with that in mind I think yes it’s important to do as much black as possible if you are interested in the very best image you can get.
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ter-build.html

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post #7708 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 01:52 PM
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hello
thank you for the replies! Keep up the great work!!
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post #7709 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 03:25 PM
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I meant commercial movie theatres are black ceilings and usually red velvet material on the walls. Home theatres done proper usually go the black route, myself included.


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post #7710 of 7713 Old 07-10-2020, 03:32 PM
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Location: Suburb of Richmond VA
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ARROW-AV, I think you've just inspired me to, or shown me a justification to, buy a NX7.

BTW, I am certain my wealth is less than 1 thousandths of 1 percent of your wealth. Just guessing. 😊

Here's the story. My 16X16 theater rooms ceiling and four walls are being covered in Triple Black Velvet. The velvet is already cut. 20% of the walls are up. After seeing your pictures it occurred to me to call Wiedamark Star Ceiling Tiles to price out my ceiling.

The price came to approx 10K shipped with shooting stars. With my Epson 6050 (always wanted a NX7/NX5) I thought I would have a nice theater room at approx $14,500.

Within minutes though I realized, I can have my originally planned Triple Black theater with a NX7 for only $9K.

So that's the story of how I can see a way forward to getting a NX7.

Thank you for helping me figure this out.
😊
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