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post #31 of 806 Old 10-02-2013, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Because non-specialists in software rarely make it correctly, too much lack of user input / testing. Chromapure and Calman have been at it for years.

I assume from your username that you would know better than me, but surely this isn't s/w rocket science - display, measure, calculate, check. I guess JVC have some understanding of how projectors work - in particular their ones.

However, this brings us full circle. The question is how does it compare to a manual/pro calibration or one done using products like Chromapure and CalMAN?
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post #32 of 806 Old 10-02-2013, 05:13 PM
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Ask Tom Huffman in the Display Calibration thread for Chromapure, he is the one that can tell you.

Well I think if you just let it do gray-scale and then post-adjust the gamma whitepoint manually below 20 IRE to correct the JVC's notorious shadow detail crushing, then you can probably get a good result with auto-cal. I suspect if you let auto-cal go hog wild and do everything, it might end up looking funny. However, I would still suggest using Chromapure and a D3 with a lumagen for the best auto-cal result (or use Chromapure and the D3 with the JVC without the lumagen, if Chromapure now supports this, I think only Calman supported auto-cal without a lumagen?).

I don't think the auto-cal features are quite to the point of matching manual calibrations yet, though they might be on their way, but how well a specific device auto-calibrates depends on the device.

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post #33 of 806 Old 10-02-2013, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Ask Tom Huffman in the Display Calibration thread for Chromapure, he is the one that can tell you.

Well I think if you just let it do gray-scale and then post-adjust the gamma whitepoint manually below 20 IRE to correct the JVC's notorious shadow detail crushing, then you can probably get a good result with auto-cal. I suspect if you let auto-cal go hog wild and do everything, it might end up looking funny. However, I would still suggest using Chromapure and a D3 with a lumagen for the best auto-cal result (or use Chromapure and the D3 with the JVC without the lumagen, if Chromapure now supports this, I think only Calman supported auto-cal without a lumagen?).

I don't think the auto-cal features are quite to the point of matching manual calibrations yet, though they might be on their way, but how well a specific device auto-calibrates depends on the device.

Thanks coderguy, I do appreciate your replies. I am still surprised that other that must have tried this have not discussed it before. I have been a lurked on here for years and have never seen Mark Haflich not respond.

BTW, the current JVC projectors with CMS have a 'dark/bright' adjustment to tweak high and low gamma. I use this to optimize the shadow detail.
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post #34 of 806 Old 10-02-2013, 07:23 PM
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I thought that the problem was that pj's internal video processing don't have high enough bit depth, and that Lumagen's have more, and don't have the problem

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post #35 of 806 Old 10-02-2013, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I thought that the problem was that pj's internal video processing don't have high enough bit depth, and that Lumagen's have more, and don't have the problem

I think that is part of the problem, but since you cannot technically turn off the JVC's processing of the bit depth (hence the JVC controls are still "re-calibrating" the Lumagen's result), then the JVC's end processing might still have jumbled the posterization. I don't know for sure if the Lumagen's own multi-point gamma calibration produces a cleaner result on the RS-45, maybe ask Zombie or Tom Huffman.

In general though, the farther away you are forced to calibrate from the projector's BEST default profile (JVC usually Cinema mode), then the more likely overall there are adverse effects. This has been a common problem with projectors for years and years, but I notice on a DLP I can adjust that stuff pretty extremely.

Ironically, DLP's are said to have more banding issues, but when a DLP gets a banding issue it is very obvious and not so hidden as the LCOS. I think the LCOS posterization issues are often more easily seen in low-APL shots or mixed contrast that are mostly dark, so it just makes it harder to tell if it's posterization or a dirty image.

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post #36 of 806 Old 01-02-2014, 12:30 PM
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I just purchased my first JVC, a RS4910, and was excited about autocalibrate. I'm surprised that this is a two page thread about a projector that has supported this for a couple years. Looking at the Spyder 4 Elite (the only one supported by the 4910) its retail is about $249, and Chromapure 2.2 and Calman 5 can be had, with and i1pro meter for not much more. Plus, you can use those other systems on your other TVs, monitors, etc. (though I suppose you could do the same witht eh Spyder). Is this the reason for the huge lack of popularity? I mean, JVC holds the cards in how well (and by whom) their pjs can be calibrated. They could lock out all advanced picture controls unless you your thier autocal. Just curious what people think about this?
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post #37 of 806 Old 01-04-2014, 09:05 PM
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I am eagerly waiting for people's impressions...what can this autocalibration achieve? How close can it get to the real thing? Nobody seems to have directly compared both methods so far? Anybody has tried the software with compatible last year' models...i mean, this autocal option has been around for more than a year, no impressions at all???
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post #38 of 806 Old 01-06-2014, 09:54 AM
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I have tried downloading the autocal. software from JVC today, but a serial number is needed so I will have to wait for my PJ to arrive. The good news is the autocalibration software works with both spyder4 pro or elite packages (the only difference is the datacolor software whis in not needed anyway, the light meter is the same), so no need to pay extra for the elite package.

I really think I will order a spyder4 pro package after making sure the JVC autocal. software allows custom calibration targets and not only calibration to maintain the original (uncalibrated) factory settings. Can anyone confirm that?
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post #39 of 806 Old 01-06-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

I have tried downloading the autocal. software from JVC today, but a serial number is needed so I will have to wait for my PJ to arrive. The good news is the autocalibration software works with both spyder4 pro or elite packages (the only difference is the datacolor software whis in not needed anyway, the light meter is the same), so no need to pay extra for the elite package.

I really think I will order a spyder4 pro package after making sure the JVC autocal. software allows custom calibration targets and not only calibration to maintain the original (uncalibrated) factory settings. Can anyone confirm that?

Here is a good post by Manni explaining the difference between JVC's autocal and autocal by Calman.
https://www.avsforum.com/t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/2850#post_24168748
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post #40 of 806 Old 01-07-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

I have tried downloading the autocal. software from JVC today, but a serial number is needed so I will have to wait for my PJ to arrive. The good news is the autocalibration software works with both spyder4 pro or elite packages (the only difference is the datacolor software whis in not needed anyway, the light meter is the same), so no need to pay extra for the elite package.

I really think I will order a spyder4 pro package after making sure the JVC autocal. software allows custom calibration targets and not only calibration to maintain the original (uncalibrated) factory settings. Can anyone confirm that?

I would go with a different meter if you haven't already ordered it. I've been out of the loop for a few months, so not sure what the current meter is, the D3 / C6 were the old ones from a couple years ago.
You want the CAlman or ChromaPure software, not the JVC stuff smile.gif

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post #41 of 806 Old 01-07-2014, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would go with a different meter if you haven't already ordered it. I've been out of the loop for a few months, so not sure what the current meter is, the D3 / C6 were the old ones from a couple years ago.
You want the CAlman or ChromaPure software, not the JVC stuff smile.gif

C6 is still the meter to get.
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post #42 of 806 Old 01-07-2014, 07:54 PM
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For calman the C6, the D3 pro for chromapure. pretty much the same other where the offsets are stored.
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post #43 of 806 Old 01-07-2014, 10:42 PM
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I think the poster wants to try The JVC calibration program, not Calman or Chromapure. That software only works with the Spyder4.

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post #44 of 806 Old 01-08-2014, 05:34 AM
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Can anybody point me to real life results obtained with JVC autocal done with the Spyder4? has it been measured how much not good it is? I know the Spyder4 is not accurate, but how is reflected in real life?
Also, is it absolutely certain that the JVC autocal can only bring the PJ back to its original (bad) factory calibration? Isnt it possible to improve the projector's original picture using it? i have read the documentation included with the JVC autocal software, ant though i know nothing about calibration, it seems to be adjusting the gray scale?
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post #45 of 806 Old 01-08-2014, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

I have tried downloading the autocal. software from JVC today, but a serial number is needed so I will have to wait for my PJ to arrive. The good news is the autocalibration software works with both spyder4 pro or elite packages (the only difference is the datacolor software whis in not needed anyway, the light meter is the same), so no need to pay extra for the elite package.

I really think I will order a spyder4 pro package after making sure the JVC autocal. software allows custom calibration targets and not only calibration to maintain the original (uncalibrated) factory settings. Can anyone confirm that?

I specifically found it listed on the procision.jvc.com site that the RS49/4910 would only support the Spyder4 Elite...I may be the same calibration software for last years RS48/4810, which was probably the Spyder4Pro (as the Elite wasn't out yet). Would be nice though, the Elite is as much as the i1Pro, making it only marginally more to go the Chromapure route.
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post #46 of 806 Old 01-08-2014, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

Can anybody point me to real life results obtained with JVC autocal done with the Spyder4? has it been measured how much not good it is? I know the Spyder4 is not accurate, but how is reflected in real life?
Also, is it absolutely certain that the JVC autocal can only bring the PJ back to its original (bad) factory calibration? Isnt it possible to improve the projector's original picture using it? i have read the documentation included with the JVC autocal software, ant though i know nothing about calibration, it seems to be adjusting the gray scale?

I bought the Spyder4Elite and it's waiting for me at home. Unfortunately I'm taking a class for work at a university two hours away so I won't be able to play around with it until this weekend. I also bought a Runco RS-900 with a rebranded ISCO IIIL with Runco's automated sled transport for $1500 biggrin.gif That's going to be waiting for me as well.

Once I sell the Runco RS-900, I think the ISCO IIIL and sled will have only cost me around $500. The only issue will be attaching the sled to the JVC DLA-X90. I'll have to buy some thick sheet metal and make my own custom mounting plate. Well worth the price of admission for the lens though....
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post #47 of 806 Old 01-08-2014, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

I think the poster wants to try The JVC calibration program, not Calman or Chromapure. That software only works with the Spyder4.

The software isn't really designed for that. It's designed to setup defaults more than anything, it will be sorely lacking I'm sure when it comes to accurate auto-cal. We aren't just saying that, experts in here have tried it. I haven't but I trust their judgement (usually). I'm not an expert calibrator myself, but I would definitely put myself in the class of beyond a novice but not quite a pro, as I just don't do it all the time like a real pro would. It makes complete sense why that software is like that, you'll be able to do some stuff, but not everything you need to do. I think it's also a bad way to try to learn.

You can easily beat even a professional calibrator's results usually on your own projector, reason being is because you have so much more time to get it right than they do. The real difference of the pro's is just the ability to do it faster and still come out with a great result, it may take a non-pro longer, but with the right approach the best calibrator for your own projector is generally you, unless people just don't have the time to learn (which is understandable, sometimes life gets in the way).

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post #48 of 806 Old 01-08-2014, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

I specifically found it listed on the procision.jvc.com site that the RS49/4910 would only support the Spyder4 Elite...I may be the same calibration software for last years RS48/4810, which was probably the Spyder4Pro (as the Elite wasn't out yet). Would be nice though, the Elite is as much as the i1Pro, making it only marginally more to go the Chromapure route.

From the jvc website, http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/download/dla-x900r_x700r_xc7880_xc5880_rs67_rs57_rs49_calibrationsoft.html , the Spyder 4 Pro or Elite can be used. The only difference is the Datacolor software which is not used by the JVC autocalibration process. Compatible projectors are:

DLA-X900R / DLA-X700R / DLA-X500R / DLA-XC7880 / DLA-XC5880 / DLA-RS67 / DLA-RS6710 / DLA-RS57 / DLA-RS4910 / DLA-RS49 / DLA-X95R / DLA-X75R / DLA-XC7800R / DLA-RS66 / DLA-RS56

There are other software versions available for all but the latest range that can use the Spyder 3 pro/elite or the Spyder 4 pro/elite.
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post #49 of 806 Old 01-08-2014, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The software isn't really designed for that. It's designed to setup defaults more than anything, it will be sorely lacking I'm sure when it comes to accurate auto-cal. We aren't just saying that, experts in here have tried it. I haven't but I trust their judgement (usually). I'm not an expert calibrator myself, but I would definitely put myself in the class of beyond a novice but not quite a pro, as I just don't do it all the time like a real pro would. It makes complete sense why that software is like that, you'll be able to do some stuff, but not everything you need to do. I think it's also a bad way to try to learn.

You can easily beat even a professional calibrator's results usually on your own projector, reason being is because you have so much more time to get it right than they do. The real difference of the pro's is just the ability to do it faster and still come out with a great result, it may take a non-pro longer, but with the right approach the best calibrator for your own projector is generally you, unless people just don't have the time to learn (which is understandable, sometimes life gets in the way).
I have yet to see a useful post from someone who has actually tried the JVC software, so a link to and expert's post on the subject would help. I understand the likely limitations, but would like to know whether they really exist.

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post #50 of 806 Old 01-08-2014, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought the Spyder4Elite and it's waiting for me at home. Unfortunately I'm taking a class for work at a university two hours away so I won't be able to play around with it until this weekend. I also bought a Runco RS-900 with a rebranded ISCO IIIL with Runco's automated sled transport for $1500 biggrin.gif That's going to be waiting for me as well.

Once I sell the Runco RS-900, I think the ISCO IIIL and sled will have only cost me around $500. The only issue will be attaching the sled to the JVC DLA-X90. I'll have to buy some thick sheet metal and make my own custom mounting plate. Well worth the price of admission for the lens though....

Hi Dylan, I am looking forward to your impressions of the autocalibration. I have tried it on my X75R with the Spyder4 and it did, imho, make a useful improvement. However, I have not had the projector professionally calibrated and do not have access to other (better) meters or software. I am very interested to see how the auto calibration compares with a professional and/or other automated calibration system, e.g. Calman.

The JVC process does not calibrate the projector and screen combo but it does have tools for separately measuring the room conditions and you can input the screen type.

Here is a review from clrv https://www.avsforum.com/t/1450039/jvc-rs66-auto-calibration in which he says he was going to get a professional calibration and post the comparison - still waiting...
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post #51 of 806 Old 01-08-2014, 05:47 PM
 
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Yeah, we'll see what happens. I'm not expecting much considering the meter was less than $250. Plus it seems the "auto-cal" only brings the projector back to factory set color performance. The THX mode on my X90 looks pretty good. Not the best color I've seen but definitely watchable.
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post #52 of 806 Old 01-09-2014, 03:44 AM
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Used Calman 5 with a C6 meter and AutoCal on my RS4810. I expected a small improvement, but I definitely wasn't ready for how MUCH of an improvement! It went from a decent home theater picture to the feeling of looking through a window to real life. So Calman auto cal worked amazingly well.

Now, I have to figure out how to use my new toys so I can calibrate our TV's as well (no auto cal choice there…)

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post #53 of 806 Old 01-09-2014, 06:23 AM
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Hey there,
Is it only Calman that supports Autocal for the JVCs, or does Chromapure as well? I want a quick cal now, then I wanna go back at some point and learn the process so I can cal other displays, and I hear Chromapure is much simpler to start learning on, Calman more for novice and above.
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post #54 of 806 Old 01-09-2014, 07:34 AM
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Hey there,
Is it only Calman that supports Autocal for the JVCs, or does Chromapure as well? I want a quick cal now, then I wanna go back at some point and learn the process so I can cal other displays, and I hear Chromapure is much simpler to start learning on, Calman more for novice and above.

Chromapure does not currently support this, though I believe Tom is either considering adding it, or maybe even already working on it.
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post #55 of 806 Old 01-09-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

I have yet to see a useful post from someone who has actually tried the JVC software, so a link to and expert's post on the subject would help. I understand the likely limitations, but would like to know whether they really exist.

Same for me. I have been searching this forum and the web and I only found opinions, not real life measurments and comparisons. I know nothing about projector calibrations, but I would prefer real life testing to simple opinions. So far, All I found is that the spyder4 used with the JVC autocalibration software is probably not accurate and will probably only return the projector to its original (uncalibrated) appearance. Probably.

As stated before, if anyone can point me to posts about real life testing of the JVC autocal features and limitations or any comparison between the spyder4 with JVC autocal and a pro calibration, I would appreciate it!
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post #56 of 806 Old 01-09-2014, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post

Same for me. I have been searching this forum and the web and I only found opinions, not real life measurments and comparisons. I know nothing about projector calibrations, but I would prefer real life testing to simple opinions. So far, All I found is that the spyder4 used with the JVC autocalibration software is probably not accurate and will probably only return the projector to its original (uncalibrated) appearance. Probably.

As stated before, if anyone can point me to posts about real life testing of the JVC autocal features and limitations or any comparison between the spyder4 with JVC autocal and a pro calibration, I would appreciate it!

You might send a similar question to JVC tech support (after they get the HDMI firmware fixed), and see if they have any useful advice...it probably wont be "buy Calman and a $1000 meter for best results. And a Ferrari is better than a Camaro, but if the Camaro is free... My feelng is that its probably akin to Audyssey EQ vs. XT 64, it'll make sure the sleakers are connected to the correct output, and set the levels, but its not going to run a 1064 X filter correction for both subs to perfectly flatten and room peaks or dips and give you that laser sharp focus from a phantom center channel.

A buddy of mine used to say "It only costs 185% more to go first class..." Nowadays its about 385%!
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post #57 of 806 Old 01-09-2014, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

You might send a similar question to JVC tech support (after they get the HDMI firmware fixed), and see if they have any useful advice...it probably wont be "buy Calman and a $1000 meter for best results. And a Ferrari is better than a Camaro, but if the Camaro is free... My feelng is that its probably akin to Audyssey EQ vs. XT 64, it'll make sure the sleakers are connected to the correct output, and set the levels, but its not going to run a 1064 X filter correction for both subs to perfectly flatten and room peaks or dips and give you that laser sharp focus from a phantom center channel.

A buddy of mine used to say "It only costs 185% more to go first class..." Nowadays its about 385%!

The thing is, economy class or not, the plane still takes you where you want to go, and it does take the same time to get there.
As for the camaro vs ferrari, which one is better depends on objective measures, but also on subjective reports made by people who have tried both cars.

As for JVC autocal with Spyder4 versus Calman (or any other calibration setup), objective measures can be made, both can be compared, objectively and also subjectively. Those comparisons I would like to see.


I am willing to try JVC autocal with Spyder4 if it makes my RS57 look better than any OOTB setting. I have yet to see any clear report about what it can do.
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post #58 of 806 Old 01-09-2014, 03:57 PM
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The thing is, economy class or not, the plane still takes you where you want to go, and it does take the same time to get there.
As for the camaro vs ferrari, which one is better depends on objective measures, but also on subjective reports made by people who have tried both cars.

As for JVC autocal with Spyder4 versus Calman (or any other calibration setup), objective measures can be made, both can be compared, objectively and also subjectively. Those comparisons I would like to see.


I am willing to try JVC autocal with Spyder4 if it makes my RS57 look better than any OOTB setting. I have yet to see any clear report about what it can do.

Exactly. The problem is, the spyder Elite meter is as much as the i1Pro D3, all you have to do with that is buy $149 software and youve got a great calibration rig for any number of displays. But, Im not gonna bite on any of it until it gets tested. Im done with early adoption, after my first experience.
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post #59 of 806 Old 01-21-2014, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, we'll see what happens. I'm not expecting much considering the meter was less than $250. Plus it seems the "auto-cal" only brings the projector back to factory set color performance. The THX mode on my X90 looks pretty good. Not the best color I've seen but definitely watchable.

Hi Dylan, I was wondering if you had tried the auto calibration yet?
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post #60 of 806 Old 01-22-2014, 09:16 AM
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So far, no useful comments or reviews about the autocal feature, accuracy, features, real life results, etc...

I guess i will then order an eye 1 with chromapure and calibrate my rs57 the traditional way when my pj reaches 100 hours or so...

I dont need perfect results, but would really like to make the picture better than the ootb settings...
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