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post #811 of 827 Old 08-08-2019, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
It depends on how close to the lens you place the meter. I would use the diffuser unless it does not return meaningful readings. Also, I would use the 20-pt mode instead of the 33-pt mode.
Does it make more sense to use a spyder 5 for gamma pointed at the lens and the i1pro2 for color pointed at the screen.


Keep in mind I'd be going back over the autocal with a manual cal with Calman and a c6 profiled to the i1pro2. I really just rely on autocl to get a flat baseline for gamma and greyscale to adjust from there.
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post #812 of 827 Old 08-08-2019, 07:25 AM
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Does it make more sense to use a spyder 5 for gamma pointed at the lens and the i1pro2 for color pointed at the screen.
Yes, you would likely get better accuracy that way.

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Keep in mind I'd be going back over the autocal with a manual cal with Calman and a c6 profiled to the i1pro2. I really just rely on autocl to get a flat baseline for gamma and greyscale to adjust from there.
I believe Manni said he gets better saturation linearity with colour Autocal, than manually using CMS.
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post #813 of 827 Old 08-08-2019, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, you would likely get better accuracy that way.


I believe Manni said he gets better saturation linearity with colour Autocal, than manually using CMS.
Ugh, yeah hate to buy a spyder 5, but if I do end up upgrading to the 540 from my 4910 I will probably get one because correcting gamma droop on a JVC is a main priority for me.

That I believe. Does he do color aimed at the screen with an i1pro2?
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post #814 of 827 Old 08-08-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Ugh, yeah hate to buy a spyder 5, but if I do end up upgrading to the 540 from my 4910 I will probably get one because correcting gamma droop on a JVC is a main priority for me.
You can also correct gamma droop using the 12-pt controls, but it would use up one of the custom gamma slots.

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That I believe. Does he do color aimed at the screen with an i1pro2?
I believe so. You can get the details on “the other site” in his signature.
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post #815 of 827 Old 08-09-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Ugh, yeah hate to buy a spyder 5, but if I do end up upgrading to the 540 from my 4910 I will probably get one because correcting gamma droop on a JVC is a main priority for me.
You can also correct gamma droop using the 12-pt controls, but it would use up one of the custom gamma slots.

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That I believe. Does he do color aimed at the screen with an i1pro2?
I believe so. You can get the details on “the other site” in his signature.
True but I'd rather correct the internal tables automatically than use the custom controls manually. Saves time. Autocal on my 4910 has been a lifesaver. Then 3 tone controls were a nightmare and gamma droop was impossible to correct. Auto made greyscale and gamma flat in 15 minutes. Then I usually only need to adjust a few clicks of 1 or 2 offsets and I'm done.

With 2 kids and limited time that's a huge time saver. So I ordered the spyder 5 and will use it for gamma and the i1pro2 go color with autocal. Then manual calibration should be fairly easy. Hopefully it's as effective on the 540 as it is on the 4910. I will say my gamma hasn't drooped further since early on in its life. Seems to stabilize.
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post #816 of 827 Old Yesterday, 10:22 AM
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You can also correct gamma droop using the 12-pt controls, but it would use up one of the custom gamma slots.


I believe so. You can get the details on “the other site” in his signature.
Could you help me understand something about JVC Autocal?

In the case where I want to calibrate with the Iris at say -8 for SDR and wide open for HDR, I believe I need to run autocal Gamma and Grayscale for both instances due to the shifts those different settings will cause?

At the same time I thought running autocal for gamma and greyscale is global across all gamma and greyscale settings.

So are there separate internal memory banks for each Iris setting so that If I set autocal gamma and greyscale for Iris -8 and then again for wide open, it will actually save 2 different sets of gains and offsets that it will recall when the Iris is switched into those spots? Then I can just manually fine tune each with Calman after?

Do I understand how using autocal for different Iris positions works?

Per your PM, only Color is affected by the Iris position?
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post #817 of 827 Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Could you help me understand something about JVC Autocal?

In the case where I want to calibrate with the Iris at say -8 for SDR and wide open for HDR, I believe I need to run autocal Gamma and Grayscale for both instances due to the shifts those different settings will cause?

At the same time I thought running autocal for gamma and greyscale is global across all gamma and greyscale settings.

So are there separate internal memory banks for each Iris setting so that If I set autocal gamma and greyscale for Iris -8 and then again for wide open, it will actually save 2 different sets of gains and offsets that it will recall when the Iris is switched into those spots? Then I can just manually fine tune each with Calman after?

Do I understand how using autocal for different Iris positions works?

Per your PM, only Color is affected by the Iris position?
Autocal does not save gains and offsets.

You can only save one set of gamma Autocal results for a specific combination of lamp power, P3 filter and CMD. This means you can have independent calibrations for SDR and HDR only if one of those 3 settings is different, otherwise one Autocal will simply overwrite the previous one.
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post #818 of 827 Old Yesterday, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Autocal does not save gains and offsets.

You can only save one set of gamma Autocal results for a specific combination of lamp power, P3 filter and CMD. This means you can have independent calibrations for SDR and HDR only if one of those 3 settings is different, otherwise one Autocal will simply overwrite the previous one.

I know it doesn't save the gains and offsets to a user visible space, but since it calibrated greyscale and gamma it must be writing those values internally.

I think my confusion is that in autocal you can run a color or gamma+color calibration. I thought gamma also calibrates greyscale, as that is the calibration that you can choose how many steps and it goes through them form RGB so its doing both gamma and greyscale. Color I though only has patterns for the primary and secondary plus white.


You're saying that greyscale and gamma are NOT able to be stored separately for different IRIS positions....only color? In that case I would just run autocal at full open and then manually fine tune with calman the -8 and full open positions using a different custom mode for each?
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post #819 of 827 Old Yesterday, 11:16 AM
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I know it doesn't save the gains and offsets to a user visible space, but since it calibrated greyscale and gamma it must be writing those values internally.
Not really, but it's the topic for another discussion.

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I think my confusion is that in autocal you can run a color or gamma+color calibration. I thought gamma also calibrates greyscale, as that is the calibration that you can choose how many steps and it goes through them form RGB so its doing both gamma and greyscale. Color I though only has patterns for the primary and secondary plus white.
Gamma autocal calibrates the greyscale relative to 100% input (white), so that you don't get rainbow effects in a grey ramp. It does not change the white point at 100%; that is done as part of colour Autocal.

In any case, the fact remains that you cannot have two sets of Gamma autocal that differ only in iris opening.

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You're saying that greyscale and gamma are NOT able to be stored separately for different IRIS positions....only color? In that case I would just run autocal at full open and then manually fine tune with calman the -8 and full open positions using a different custom mode for each?
If for HDR you're using the BT.2020 colour profile (with filter) rather than the HDR colour profile (no filter), then you are able to save SDR and HDR autocals separately.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; Yesterday at 11:22 AM.
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post #820 of 827 Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM
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I know it doesn't save the gains and offsets to a user visible space, but since it calibrated greyscale and gamma it must be writing those values internally.
Not really, but it's the topic for another discussion.

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I think my confusion is that in autocal you can run a color or gamma+color calibration. I thought gamma also calibrates greyscale, as that is the calibration that you can choose how many steps and it goes through them form RGB so its doing both gamma and greyscale. Color I though only has patterns for the primary and secondary plus white.
Gamma autocal calibrates the greyscale relative to 100% input (white), so that you don't get rainbow effects in a grey ramp. It does not change the white point at 100%; that is done as part of colour Autocal.

In any case, the fact remains that you cannot have two sets of Gamma autocal that differ only in iris opening.

If for HDR you're using the BT.2020 colour profile (with filter) rather than the HDR colour profile (no filter), then you are able to save SDR and HDR autocals separately.
So if I autocal forhdr with the filter and sdr without the filter, does that save 2 sets of gamma and greyscale? Or just color? And I thought I had read autocal with the bt2020 color profile isn't a good idea.
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post #821 of 827 Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM
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So if I autocal forhdr with the filter and sdr without the filter, does that save 2 sets of gamma and greyscale?
Yes, that’s what I’ve been saying.

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And I thought I had read autocal with the bt2020 color profile isn't a good idea.
It’s tricking to fine-tune BT.2020 colour profile compared with Rec709, but the same issue exists with the HDR colour profile without the filter. You need a good meter.

There are no issues running the gamma Autocal, with or without the filter.
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post #822 of 827 Old Yesterday, 02:00 PM
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Yes, that’s what I’ve been saying.


It’s tricking to fine-tune BT.2020 colour profile compared with Rec709, but the same issue exists with the HDR colour profile without the filter. You need a good meter.

There are no issues running the gamma Autocal, with or without the filter.
Ok, I think I got it. If I want to get 2 sets of gamma/greyscale autocal results with 2 different IRIS settings, the workaround is to take those measurements with lets say user1 with color profile being something like standard (no filter for SDR) and one lets say user2 with the BT2020 color profile (for HDR). I can do those both in low lamp, since I have changed the filter between autocal runs. For the BT2020 autocal, I can just do gamma and not color if I don't want to mess with the gamut. By doing so, both user1 and user2 will have their own unique gamma and greyscale autocal that I can then further fine tune with calman.

Hopefully I understand correctly. I apologize if I seem dense on this. I'm a sys admin so part of my brain gets stuck in the why and sometimes the how gets los behind
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post #823 of 827 Old Yesterday, 02:15 PM
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Ok, I think I got it. If I want to get 2 sets of gamma/greyscale autocal results with 2 different IRIS settings, the workaround is to take those measurements with lets say user1 with color profile being something like standard (no filter for SDR) and one lets say user2 with the BT2020 color profile (for HDR). I can do those both in low lamp, since I have changed the filter between autocal runs.
Yes.

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For the BT2020 autocal, I can just do gamma and not color if I don't want to mess with the gamut. By doing so, both user1 and user2 will have their own unique gamma and greyscale autocal that I can then further fine tune with calman.
It’s not just the gamut. WB is also corrected as part of colour Autocal, although WB is easy to adjust with CalMAN after Autocal.
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post #824 of 827 Old Yesterday, 02:46 PM
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Yes.


It’s not just the gamut. WB is also corrected as part of colour Autocal, although WB is easy to adjust with CalMAN after Autocal.
Gotcha...Color and WB are one run, gamma is another. So I can do one run for user 1 SDR standard color profile. Then do color and gamma as a second run for user 2 BT2020 and just do gamma, not color. So gamma will be corrected for each IRIS position and color mode (user1 and user2) WB will be one calibration across both and I'll just touch those up with calman individually.



Hopefully I got it now.
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post #825 of 827 Old Yesterday, 02:58 PM
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Gotcha...Color and WB are one run, gamma is another. So I can do one run for user 1 SDR standard color profile.
Yes.

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Then do color and gamma as a second run for user 2 BT2020 and just do gamma, not color.
I don’t understand this. You seem to be saying two different things in the same sentence.

if you plan to use CalMAN you can run only gamma autocal and skip colour autocal.

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So gamma will be corrected for each IRIS position and color mode (user1 and user2) WB will be one calibration across both and I'll just touch those up with calman individually.
No, WB is not shared between the SDR and HDR Picture Modes. You have to calibrate them individually, either using autocal or CalMAN.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; Yesterday at 04:00 PM.
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post #826 of 827 Old Today, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes.


I don’t understand this. You seem to be saying two different things in the same sentence.

if you plan to use CalMAN you can run only gamma autocal and skip colour autocal.



No, WB is not shared between the SDR and HDR Picture Modes. You have to calibrate them individually, either using autocal or CalMAN.

Sorry, for user2 BT2020, I would do a second run with just gamma, not color.

To clarify my WB statement for HDR and SDR: Technically I am not using HDR, I am sending SDR BT2020 tone mapped from a Panasonic 820. So both user 1 and user 2 would be SDR. one would use the filter for BT2020 SDR and have the IRIS wide open.

This would mean I could have 2 gamma autocal settings for user 1 and user 2 because of the BT2020 color filter for user 2. But white balance can't be unique for both, because that is done as part of color calibration and I should only run color for user 1 SDR Rec709. I will just make those corrections with calman.
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post #827 of 827 Old Today, 09:10 AM
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Sorry, for user2 BT2020, I would do a second run with just gamma, not color.

To clarify my WB statement for HDR and SDR: Technically I am not using HDR, I am sending SDR BT2020 tone mapped from a Panasonic 820. So both user 1 and user 2 would be SDR. one would use the filter for BT2020 SDR and have the IRIS wide open.
The WB for SDR2020 and HDR2020 will be the same as each other. Both will be different from the Rec709 WB.

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This would mean I could have 2 gamma Autocal settings for user 1 and user 2 because of the BT2020 color filter for user 2. But white balance can't be unique for both, because that is done as part of color calibration and I should only run color for user 1 SDR Rec709.
If you don’t run colour autocal for BT2020 it simply means the WB will not be corrected from its current value. It does not mean it will become the same as your Rec709 value.

In any case, I’ve exhausted what I can say. I suggest you (re-)read the first 10 or 12 posts of this thread.

EDIT: I meant the Calibration Thread for the 2016 JVC models.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; Today at 09:17 AM.
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