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post #991 of 1034 Old 05-24-2020, 02:48 AM
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I don't know if someone else already found out that Autocal has some hidden settings that allow an XYZ correction matrix for the connected meter.

The option is called 'matrixOfSensor' and is located in the file %userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\JVCKENWOOD\Projector Calibration Software *\init.xml.




This is what a color and gamma Autocal would look like using a Spyder without correction






And this is what it it would look like using a Spyder and a correction matrix.





The settings exist at least since Autocal 7. It would have been nice, if JVC had mentioned this at some point or even put it in the GUI.



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post #992 of 1034 Old 05-24-2020, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I don't know if someone else already found out that Autocal has some hidden settings that allow an XYZ correction matrix for the connected meter.

The option is called 'matrixOfSensor' and is located in the file %userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\JVCKENWOOD\Projector Calibration Software *\init.xml.
Thanks Karl. This is BIG news!

I knew that the “hacked” version (for i1D3) had this features, but didn't know it existed in the original JVC software.
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post #993 of 1034 Old 05-24-2020, 05:56 AM
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Completely excellent! Good timing, it’s about time I redid my calibration.

How did you make the correction matrix, is it a standard format?

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post #994 of 1034 Old 05-24-2020, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post
Completely excellent! Good timing, it’s about time I redid my calibration.

How did you make the correction matrix, is it a standard format?
There are a few methods to create such a matrix.I used a function in the SDK for my Klein K10-A.
You could do it with HCFR or CalMAN.


Edit:
There is also an Excel sheet in another thread

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post22046028

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post #995 of 1034 Old 05-24-2020, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I don't know if someone else already found out that Autocal has some hidden settings that allow an XYZ correction matrix for the connected meter.

The option is called 'matrixOfSensor' and is located in the file %userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\JVCKENWOOD\Projector Calibration Software *\init.xml.
Thanks for the hint. I was able to get excellent Colour Autocal (v7) using the Spyder 5, when the correction matrix is applied:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post59701440
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post #996 of 1034 Old 05-28-2020, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I don't know if someone else already found out that Autocal has some hidden settings that allow an XYZ correction matrix for the connected meter.

The option is called 'matrixOfSensor' and is located in the file %userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\JVCKENWOOD\Projector Calibration Software *\init.xml.

Thanks for finding and posting about this.

I was able to get a good calibration last night (and well into this morning!) with this table, even P3F which I never managed to get good results with using Chad's spreadsheet.
It took me a few hours to get a correction table as my Colormunki photo didn't want to work with HCFR for some reason, worked last week. I made a correction table between an i1D3 which has always given good results and the Spyder5 Using the technique posted here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post26648713
I was stuck to get the matrix out of HCFR (and google wasn't helping) until I discovered that if you configure sensor, there's a sensor matrix tab which has the values, type them in exactly from the table to the init file, screen shot attached.
You can get to this from the Measures menu, Sensor & Configure or there's a shortcut icon in the Sensor pane under the icon bar.

The values go top left to bottom right, mine looks like this:

<matrixOfSensor>
<double>0.889645</double>
<double>0.067504</double>
<double>0.011428</double>
<double>-0.050344</double>
<double>1.013776</double>
<double>0.012474</double>
<double>-0.019616</double>
<double>-0.048496</double>
<double>0.971348</double>
</matrixOfSensor>

Don't copy my values, they are only useful to me! They will likely make someonelse's autocal much worse, I'm posting them because it took me a while to work out what goes where and this information would have been useful for me at midnight last night.

I also attached a screen photo of the table so the correspondence can be seen, again these are the values for my Spyder5 another one will be completely different.

So and the next thing, I wonder what the Matrix of calc does??

<matrixOfCalc>
<double>1</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>1</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>1</double>
</matrixOfCalc>


Hope this helps someone.
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post #997 of 1034 Old 05-28-2020, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post
It took me a few hours to get a correction table as my Colormunki photo didn't want to work with HCFR for some reason, worked last week. I made a correction table between an i1D3 which has always given good results and the Spyder5 Using the technique posted here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post26648713
For what it's worth, HCFR provides an easier way to build a correction matrix as I've posted here ==> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post59695038

My example was to do a correction matrix against an i1Pro2, but you can use any other sensor as the reference of course.
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post #998 of 1034 Old 05-28-2020, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post
For what it's worth, HCFR provides an easier way to build a correction matrix as I've posted here ==> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post59695038

My example was to do a correction matrix against an i1Pro2, but you can use any other sensor as the reference of course.
I did try simultaneous measures first, I can't remember why it didn't work for me but I didn't get far with it... I'll revisit that when I get the colormunki toy spectro working again.

Thanks

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post #999 of 1034 Old 05-28-2020, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post
I did try simultaneous measures first, I can't remember why it didn't work for me but I didn't get far with it... I'll revisit that when I get the colormunki toy spectro working again.

Thanks
Yeah try it again.

Simultaneous measures is the way to go IMO.

I have been using that method in HCFR for awhile to calibrate my i1D3 to my i1 Pro 2 before doing a calibration session with the i1D3. HCFR definitely lets you save and view the correction matrix for the corrected meter as well.
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post #1000 of 1034 Old 06-03-2020, 01:37 PM
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Hello everybody!
Is it possible to use the Xrite i1 with old JVC Auto Calibration V5, if you apply the patch from (hifi-forum.de/viewthread-94-15592.html)?
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post #1001 of 1034 Old 06-04-2020, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicks007 View Post
Hello everybody!
Is it possible to use the Xrite i1 with old JVC Auto Calibration V5, if you apply the patch from (hifi-forum.de/viewthread-94-15592.html)?
I don’t know for sure but suspect it won’t work. The patch makes the i1D3 “look like” a Spyder5 to Autocal, but V5 requires Spyder4.

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post #1002 of 1034 Old 06-05-2020, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post
Thanks for finding and posting about this.

I was able to get a good calibration last night (and well into this morning!) with this table, even P3F which I never managed to get good results with using Chad's spreadsheet.
It took me a few hours to get a correction table as my Colormunki photo didn't want to work with HCFR for some reason, worked last week. I made a correction table between an i1D3 which has always given good results and the Spyder5 Using the technique posted here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post26648713
I was stuck to get the matrix out of HCFR (and google wasn't helping) until I discovered that if you configure sensor, there's a sensor matrix tab which has the values, type them in exactly from the table to the init file, screen shot attached.
You can get to this from the Measures menu, Sensor & Configure or there's a shortcut icon in the Sensor pane under the icon bar.

The values go top left to bottom right, mine looks like this:

<matrixOfSensor>
<double>0.889645</double>
<double>0.067504</double>
<double>0.011428</double>
<double>-0.050344</double>
<double>1.013776</double>
<double>0.012474</double>
<double>-0.019616</double>
<double>-0.048496</double>
<double>0.971348</double>
</matrixOfSensor>

Don't copy my values, they are only useful to me! They will likely make someonelse's autocal much worse, I'm posting them because it took me a while to work out what goes where and this information would have been useful for me at midnight last night.

I also attached a screen photo of the table so the correspondence can be seen, again these are the values for my Spyder5 another one will be completely different.

So and the next thing, I wonder what the Matrix of calc does??

<matrixOfCalc>
<double>1</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>1</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>0</double>
<double>1</double>
</matrixOfCalc>


Hope this helps someone.
Managed to do this with my spyder5 against an ES2000.

Wanted to do this for a spyderX but so far could net get HCFR to detect the spyderx.

Managed to create a correction matrix for spyderx using DisplayCAL3 getting this table.
0.992646 -0.002451 -0.008380
-0.007741 0.987041 0.002422
-0.000301 0.000838 0.942513

Do I need to plug in these numbers in that same order?

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #1003 of 1034 Old 06-05-2020, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
Managed to do this with my spyder5 against an ES2000.

Wanted to do this for a spyderX but so far could net get HCFR to detect the spyderx.

Managed to create a correction matrix for spyderx using DisplayCAL3 getting this table.
0.992646 -0.002451 -0.008380
-0.007741 0.987041 0.002422
-0.000301 0.000838 0.942513

Do I need to plug in these numbers in that same order?
Looks plausible, only way to know is give it a try and see if the next autocal looks and measures better.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post
Looks plausible, only way to know is give it a try and see if the next autocal looks and measures better.
Needed HCFR 2019 to get the Spyder X recognized.
I'm going to create a correction matrix with it and compare to verify.
Looks like DisplayCAL creates a matrix with higher precision numbers and it is easier to use for generating correction table.

Did only gamma cal and corrected color balance with an i1display.
Green in the cie is a bit under but that should be corrected when I start doing color cal.

If I can get a good comparison on the correction matrix I will gain confidence and blunder forth.

So far so good.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
Managed to create a correction matrix for spyderx using DisplayCAL3 getting this table.
0.992646 -0.002451 -0.008380
-0.007741 0.987041 0.002422
-0.000301 0.000838 0.942513

Do I need to plug in these numbers in that same order?
Yes, same order.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicks007 View Post
Is it possible to use the Xrite i1 with old JVC Auto Calibration V5, if you apply the patch from (hifi-forum.de/viewthread-94-15592.html)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I don’t know for sure but suspect it won’t work. The patch makes the i1D3 “look like” a Spyder5 to Autocal, but V5 requires Spyder4.

I think, it could work.

I know someone who used a DLL written to replace a Spyder 5 with Autocal V6 (Spyder 4). The DLL for V5 has the same functions implemented as V6.

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Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I think, it could work.

I know someone who used a DLL written to replace a Spyder 5 with Autocal V6 (Spyder 4). The DLL for V5 has the same functions implemented as V6.
It would be nice if some one comes up with a similar DLL for SpyderX replacing Spyder5.

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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
It would be nice if some one comes up with a similar DLL for SpyderX replacing Spyder5.

It's not impossible to do. You have to cover four functions in the DLL and name them correctly. The main function just throws XYZ values at Autocal.

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Just to be sure, the correction matrix hidden in JVC Autocal is not associated with one particular sensor, true ?

That is if I use 2 different sensors, ie. Spyder for gamma and i1 Pro2 for colour autocal, will the matrix be used for both sensors alternatively ?

Does that mean it only works if using the same sensor for both gamma and colour ?
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Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post
Just to be sure, the correction matrix hidden in JVC Autocal is not associated with one particular sensor, true ?

That is if I use 2 different sensors, ie. Spyder for gamma and i1 Pro2 for colour autocal, will the matrix be used for both sensors alternatively ?

Does that mean it only works if using the same sensor for both gamma and colour ?
The same matrix will probably be used when you switch meters. It doesn’t really matter in this example as the matrix has no effect on gamma Autocal..

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post #1011 of 1034 Old 06-10-2020, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The same matrix will probably be used when you switch meters. It doesn’t really matter in this example as the matrix has no effect on gamma Autocal..
Well then it's of no use to me as only the spyder X can benefit of the correction matrix, and I will use my I1 Pro2 for colours anyway and the latter needs no correction matrix.

Another question: It is specified in HCFR that the i1d3 has its own built-in correction matrix, so does it still benefit from an external correction matrix like against the i1 Pro2 ?
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Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post
Well then it's of no use to me as only the spyder X can benefit of the correction matrix, and I will use my I1 Pro2 for colours anyway and the latter needs no correction matrix.

Another question: It is specified in HCFR that the i1d3 has its own built-in correction matrix, so does it still benefit from an external correction matrix like against the i1 Pro2 ?
I use Autocal v11 without correction matrix for the color calibration (EFI ES-2000) and the Spyder5 for gamma.
I use v12 with correction for a SpyderX.

Alternative is to paste and copy the correction matrix in the init file from a text file.

Still not decided if I want to do gamma by measuring of the screen with the SX. CEO doesn't want black paint on the ceiling...

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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Still not decided if I want to do gamma by measuring of the screen with the SX. CEO doesn't want black paint on the ceiling...
Gamma calibration is not affected by the screen or the room.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
I use Autocal v11 without correction matrix for the color calibration (EFI ES-2000) and the Spyder5 for gamma.
I use v12 with correction for a SpyderX.

Alternative is to paste and copy the correction matrix in the init file from a text file.

Still not decided if I want to do gamma by measuring of the screen with the SX. CEO doesn't want black paint on the ceiling...
And I now will use Autocal V11 with a corrected i1D3 (correction matrix made with my ES-2000 and HCFR) for gamma and colour ...... no more fuss changing the sensor and having to white tile calibrate the ES-2000 every time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Gamma calibration is not affected by the screen or the room.
Does the sensor reading of the screen see more light than it is supposed to due to light reflecting back onto the screen from the room?
Doesn't that affect the gamma calibration at the higher ire levels at all or is the error too small to worry about?

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #1016 of 1034 Old 06-14-2020, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
Does the sensor reading of the screen see more light than it is supposed to due to light reflecting back onto the screen from the room?
Doesn't that affect the gamma calibration at the higher ire levels at all or is the error too small to worry about?
Gamma calibration is based on the relative luminance measurements at different input levels. The factors you mentioned, even when significant, are all proportional to the brightness of each projected pattern, so do not affect the relations between the patterns.

An exception to this is existing light (light not originated from the projector). That will affect the gamma.
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post #1017 of 1034 Old 06-14-2020, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post
And I now will use Autocal V11 with a corrected i1D3 (correction matrix made with my ES-2000 and HCFR) for gamma and colour ...... no more fuss changing the sensor and having to white tile calibrate the ES-2000 every time.
If a corrected SpyderX does the job as good as the ES-2000 with Spyder5 combo the improved speed makes it worthwhile for me.

I'm still not certain about the calibration of the ES-2000.
Autocal sees the sensor and goes to the next screen without the button press. But I'm not certain yet that the sensor is actually calibrating without the button press.
Using hcfr with a i1display pro I needed to adjust the grayscale with the gain sliders to adjust the whitepoint to 6500 and to remove the color cast I saw on the grey patterns below 50%.

Next time I will press the button after placing the ES on the cradle. I presume that calibration with the button press is a hardware function and the autocal software doesn't do the hardware calibration and just goes to the next step when it detects the sensor.

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #1018 of 1034 Old 06-14-2020, 02:02 PM
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Is it better to train sensors with the light from the projector or is simply using the lcd screen from the laptop sufficent?

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #1019 of 1034 Old 06-14-2020, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Gamma calibration is based on the relative luminance measurements at different input levels. The factors you mentioned, even when significant, are all proportional to the brightness of each projected pattern, so do not affect the relations between the patterns.

An exception to this is existing light (light not originated from the projector). That will affect the gamma.
Ok, that makes sense.

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #1020 of 1034 Old 06-14-2020, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
Is it better to train sensors with the light from the projector or is simply using the lcd screen from the laptop sufficent?
You need different training for different light sources. Otherwise you might as well use one of the factory profiles.
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