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post #1021 of 1034 Old 06-14-2020, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
If a corrected SpyderX does the job as good as the ES-2000 with Spyder5 combo the improved speed makes it worthwhile for me.
It should be just as good.

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I'm still not certain about the calibration of the ES-2000.
Autocal sees the sensor and goes to the next screen without the button press. But I'm not certain yet that the sensor is actually calibrating without the button press.
There is no need to push the button. Just make sure the meter is facing the white tile when you click on the meter icon.
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post #1022 of 1034 Old 06-14-2020, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
If a corrected SpyderX does the job as good as the ES-2000 with Spyder5 combo the improved speed makes it worthwhile for me.

I'm still not certain about the calibration of the ES-2000.
Autocal sees the sensor and goes to the next screen without the button press. But I'm not certain yet that the sensor is actually calibrating without the button press.
Using hcfr with a i1display pro I needed to adjust the grayscale with the gain sliders to adjust the whitepoint to 6500 and to remove the color cast I saw on the grey patterns below 50%.

Next time I will press the button after placing the ES on the cradle. I presume that calibration with the button press is a hardware function and the autocal software doesn't do the hardware calibration and just goes to the next step when it detects the sensor.

You never need to press the button with any video calibration software that I’ve ever seen.

The calibration software automatically reads the white tile before it will allow using the sensor for reading screen patterns.

It will complain if the unit is not on the white tile when that reading happens. You can tell it's taking a reading because the light on the back of the unit turns off.
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Last edited by SirMaster; 06-14-2020 at 06:58 PM.
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post #1023 of 1034 Old 06-15-2020, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
I'm still not certain about the calibration of the ES-2000.
Autocal sees the sensor and goes to the next screen without the button press. But I'm not certain yet that the sensor is actually calibrating without the button press.
Using hcfr with a i1display pro I needed to adjust the grayscale with the gain sliders to adjust the whitepoint to 6500 and to remove the color cast I saw on the grey patterns below 50%.

Next time I will press the button after placing the ES on the cradle. I presume that calibration with the button press is a hardware function and the autocal software doesn't do the hardware calibration and just goes to the next step when it detects the sensor.
In HCFR when you select the ES-2000 ( i1 Pro2 really ) it gives you the choice to calibrate it, that's what I do, I place it on its white tile before, then click on the calibrate button within the HCFR pop-up, it takes a little while ( about 8 seconds or so ) then returns with the message that the sensor is now calibrated and that I can place it to the measuring position.
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post #1024 of 1034 Old 06-15-2020, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
You never need to press the button with any video calibration software that I’ve ever seen.

The calibration software automatically reads the white tile before it will allow using the sensor for reading screen patterns.

It will complain if the unit is not on the white tile when that reading happens. You can tell it's taking a reading because the light on the back of the unit turns off.
Well not with HCFR, the white tile calibration is not automatic and the i1 Pro2 (ES-2000) light is never on.
What you say is when using it with JVC Autocal.

But you are right with the sensor's button, it is not used, maybe with X-Rite or Datacolor own applications ?
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post #1025 of 1034 Old 06-15-2020, 06:19 AM
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Could be that the calibration function is implemented in hardware and through software.
I assume the sensor updates an internal correction matrix to compensate for sensor drift.

Not sure but I think the sensor can be calibrated against reference color patches when it is used to for calibrating (photo)printer output.

Perhaps this filmmaker kit can be useful for people with out the calibration cradle.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0036WSO9I/ref=emc_b_5_i

Cheaper option without sensor
https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-ColorC..._t2_B00LPS46TW

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.

Last edited by Frank Derks; 06-15-2020 at 06:33 AM.
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post #1026 of 1034 Old 06-15-2020, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You need different training for different light sources. Otherwise you might as well use one of the factory profiles.
Aged lamp can be considered a different light source.
Then would it be beneficial to retrain the sensors after the lamps changing spectral output due aging for highest accuracy?

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #1027 of 1034 Old 06-15-2020, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post
Well not with HCFR, the white tile calibration is not automatic and the i1 Pro2 (ES-2000) light is never on.
What you say is when using it with JVC Autocal.

But you are right with the sensor's button, it is not used, maybe with X-Rite or Datacolor own applications ?
Yeah I really just meant that you don't use the button and you will know that it's calibrated.

Since with HCFR you need to tell it you are calibrating, and if it's not on the white tile it will give an error.

And for Autocal, you will also get an error if it's no on the white tile after you select the sensor and you can also see that it's taking a reading when the light on the back turns off while it's on the tile.


The button is used in the X-Rite software to periodically calibrate the meter as you are using it.
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post #1028 of 1034 Old 06-16-2020, 01:27 PM
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Had a not connected error in Autocal when checking the connection.
Forgot that I did not disconnected the projector from my iRule remote control app.

Found that after pinging the projectors ip with a network scan app I have on my iPad the projector became responsive again.

No need for a power down. Didn't even need to restart Autocal.

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #1029 of 1034 Old 06-23-2020, 03:37 PM
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Hi

I was wondering if someone would give me advice on how I may proceed to fix black crush issues on an older jvc x500 projector.

I have been using settings produced by others over the Internet and in general have been happy. Lately, though not sure how long it has been that way, I have noticed that the blacks appear crushed. Brightness had been set to +3, gamma 2.3. Looking at a dark scene, I up the brightness to +13 and now can see detail. However, image is washed out. In the gamma menu, I raise the dark level to +7 and reset brightness back to +3. I can now see more dark detail, though the image now appears to have less contrast. My first question, is this gamma droop, common to most jvc projectors as they age?

I see that it may be possible to fix gamma droop using a spyder 4 with the JVC autocal software. Basically I'm wondering if it's worth the effort to acquire a used spyder 4 and go through the process of re-calibrating the projector. I do understand that meters drift over time, so it will be a crapshoot on whether any spyder4 I pick up will be usable. Just for fun and to get my feet wet, I dusted off an old Eye One Display LT and ran it on old version of HCFR to see how the x500 measures. I did a 10 point greyscale measurement. Over the range from 10% to 90% grey, blue was 130%, green 110%, and red 30%. Using 80% grey test pattern and adjusting gains by lowering green and blue, I was able to get each of red/green/blue to approximately 100%. However, visually, the 80% grey did not look grey anymore. It was quite noticeably red. On the gamma graph, it was quite flat across the range, though average was at 1.9. Can I assume that this exercise has determined that the meter has drifted and that this old I1 Display LT is essentially not usable anymore?

I don't know if I understand the process very well, but I see through various postings that if I have a reference meter and Chromapure software I may be able to adjust the Spyder4 to produce correct results. Sorry I'm not sure of precise terminology. Obviously, this is additional cost, but may be worth it.

So, I'm wondering where to go from here. I'm generally happy with color, overall brightness, but not too happy with shadow detail and the image is kind of washed out when gamma dark level is increased on the projector control. I'm hoping to live with the projector for a few more years.

Do we know if any part of the JVC autocal process might be useful for me with a used spyder4 sensor? Perhaps I could follow up with manual calibration with an i1d3 with hcfr?

thanks to all in advance
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post #1030 of 1034 Old 06-23-2020, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basement View Post
On the gamma graph, it was quite flat across the range, though average was at 1.9. Can I assume that this exercise has determined that the meter has drifted and that this old I1 Display LT is essentially not usable anymore?

I don't know if I understand the process very well, but I see through various postings that if I have a reference meter and Chromapure software I may be able to adjust the Spyder4 to produce correct results. Sorry I'm not sure of precise terminology. Obviously, this is additional cost, but may be worth it.
If gamma measures 1.9 when set for 2.2 then that shows gamma droop. Have you tried selecting a higher value (e.g., 2.5) to compensate?

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post #1031 of 1034 Old 06-24-2020, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If gamma measures 1.9 when set for 2.2 then that shows gamma droop. Have you tried selecting a higher value (e.g., 2.5) to compensate?
I have set gamma to higher value, as have also made changes to gamma/bright level and gamma/tone. At this time, I'm not sure if I have found settings that I like, but will continue to try.

I was prepared to discount what my old i1 meter is telling me about the gamma. Is it possible that the meter is giving me a valid result for gamma, given that it appears it is not reading colour, particularly red correctly? The gamma graph was quite flat. If so, I can continue to use the i1 to get gamma measurements to check gamma setting changes at the projector.

I have found and am waiting for delivery of a used Spyder4Pro. It did not cost very much. If I can get it to work with HCFR, and if gamma measures similar to the i1 display LT, then perhaps I can be confident I can at least do a gamma calibration with JVC autocal.
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post #1032 of 1034 Old 06-24-2020, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by basement View Post
I was prepared to discount what my old i1 meter is telling me about the gamma. Is it possible that the meter is giving me a valid result for gamma, given that it appears it is not reading colour, particularly red correctly? The gamma graph was quite flat. If so, I can continue to use the i1 to get gamma measurements to check gamma setting changes at the projector.
In most cases the gamma reading should still be valid, as long as you’re not reading very low luminance levels.

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post #1033 of 1034 Old 06-24-2020, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basement View Post
I have set gamma to higher value, as have also made changes to gamma/bright level and gamma/tone. At this time, I'm not sure if I have found settings that I like, but will continue to try.

I was prepared to discount what my old i1 meter is telling me about the gamma. Is it possible that the meter is giving me a valid result for gamma, given that it appears it is not reading colour, particularly red correctly? The gamma graph was quite flat. If so, I can continue to use the i1 to get gamma measurements to check gamma setting changes at the projector.

I have found and am waiting for delivery of a used Spyder4Pro. It did not cost very much. If I can get it to work with HCFR, and if gamma measures similar to the i1 display LT, then perhaps I can be confident I can at least do a gamma calibration with JVC autocal.
The gamma readings are probably fine.

Gamma is merely a relative luminance reading between a 100% white pattern and some darker grey patterns. Since you are reading 100% white with the same meter as you are reading the darker patterns, the relative luminance between them should still be accurate.
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post #1034 of 1034 Old 06-24-2020, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
The gamma readings are probably fine.

Gamma is merely a relative luminance reading between a 100% white pattern and some darker grey patterns. Since you are reading 100% white with the same meter as you are reading the darker patterns, the relative luminance between them should still be accurate.
thank you, and to Dominic as well. I will post updates as I progress
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