Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 148 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4411 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
I have tried every option on and off or whatever and this PJ is not suitable for hardcore FPS gaming. There is obvious input lag.
I agree there is lag, I just did not think the lag was that high with all processing turned off.
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post #4412 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
I agree there is lag, I just did not think the lag was that high with all processing turned off.

Maybe I am hyper sensitive to it because of the monitors I use. Glad other people are able to enjoy it.

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post #4413 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cofn42 View Post
You are saying the difference between a device being perfect and sucking is 1/10 of a second, that is quite frankly absurd. If that is the standard of a device failing to perform you hold electronics to you are going to be facing a long life of disappointment and I pray you are not a reviewer who may usher people away from a product based on that small a margin of time.
When you're talking about reaction times measured in fractions of a second, 0.1s is a substantial amount of time, and much worse than many of the competing PJs. There's nothing absurd about pointing that out. For some people it can be the difference between perfect and sucking and I would hope a reviewer would point that out since it may be a deciding factor for some purchasers.
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post #4414 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post
When you're talking about reaction times measured in fractions of a second, 0.1s is a substantial amount of time, and much worse than many of the competing PJs. There's nothing absurd about pointing that out. For some people it can be the difference between perfect and sucking and I would hope a reviewer would point that out since it may be a deciding factor for some purchasers.
I would definitely think it should be mentioned in reviews, my real issue was saying a projector sucks for gaming based on that lag is too much and highly misleading.

Hell up until the last couple year no one even mentioned such a thing, now it is being used to discourage gamers from certain products.

Going forward we are all going to have to get used to the lag, as all the new PJs out there (Sony's 4K, the new Epson Laser, all the JVC line), all the high end stuff suffers the exact same lag.

Lag which I still stand by not making a lick of difference to the average person. Sure you are measuring response in .1 of a second, but if it is that important to you, you are not playing in a theater ever. That core elite group are playing at a desk on a 1ms monitor with a wired mechanical KB and wired mouse on a ethernet wired network, to minumize every little ounce of lag inducing hardware they can so they may have 1/10 of a second jump on the next guy.

The rest / majority of us? Well we would rather play in our fat comfy recliners with a wireless gamepad hooked to our receivers and fed to our lag filled projectors not noticing much of a difference anyway...
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post #4415 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cofn42 View Post
I would definitely think it should be mentioned in reviews, my real issue was saying a projector sucks for gaming based on that lag is too much and highly misleading.

Hell up until the last couple year no one even mentioned such a thing, now it is being used to discourage gamers from certain products.

Going forward we are all going to have to get used to the lag, as all the new PJs out there (Sony's 4K, the new Epson Laser, all the JVC line), all the high end stuff suffers the exact same lag.

Lag which I still stand by not making a lick of difference to the average person. Sure you are measuring response in .1 of a second, but if it is that important to you, you are not playing in a theater ever. That core elite group are playing at a desk on a 1ms monitor with a wired mechanical KB and wired mouse on a ethernet wired network, to minumize every little ounce of lag inducing hardware they can so they may have 1/10 of a second jump on the next guy.

The rest / majority of us? Well we would rather play in our fat comfy recliners with a wireless gamepad hooked to our receivers and fed to our lag filled projectors not noticing much of a difference anyway...

Perhaps I was a little overly enthusiastic....perhaps lol.

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post #4416 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Maybe I am hyper sensitive to it because of the monitors I use. Glad other people are able to enjoy it.
For many people the lag, with all processing turned off is too high, I was thinking it was closer to 75ms rather than 125.
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post #4417 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cofn42 View Post
The problem is it must equate some negative experience, if it is not impacting your play, you kills, your reaction, then what is the issue exactly?

Lag has direct correlation to K/D ratio, if you are not seeing any "skill" impact, then I do not see what the problem is.
It might not affect you, but it affects others. I just tried my RS4910 again, I made sure MPC, CMD, and even Clear Black and the Dynamic Iris were off. And just like the first time I tried playing Forza, it was clear something was "wrong". I imagine it's not unlike driving drunk, with one's reaction times slowed down. Cars are "sluggish", by the time you notice you're sliding it's too late to catch it. Switch over to my Planar 8150 and it's "night and day" are the best words I can come up with, even though I know that's way overstating it. It's no that bad in all games, and frankly I could see where FPSs actually might not be as bad (I haven't tried Halo yet), I know when I play FPS I don't think reaction time is necessarily that important with my play style. I've played some other games that it doesn't matter, I've played some that are even worse.

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Saying the unit "sucks" for gaming does it a complete injustice. You are saying the difference between a device being perfect and sucking is 1/10 of a second, that is quite frankly absurd.
It's hyperbole for sure, but it's far from absurd. For me, that "1/10 of a second" is the difference between a projector with great image quality I can use for everything ("perfect"), and me needing two projectors, or possibly getting rid of the JVC. From what I have experienced, I could never in good conscience recommend a JVC to anyone who does any sort of "serious" gaming, at least not without them being able to test it out first. These are not inexpensive machines and it's just too big of a "risk" if someone wants to game on it.

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If that is the standard of a device failing to perform you hold electronics to you are going to be facing a long life of disappointment and I pray you are not a reviewer who may usher people away from a product based on that small a margin of time.

I will not dispute that actual number, does the unit have input lag? Yes. Is it a major issue for the vast majority of people? Highly unlikely in my opinion.

Maybe for the few folks like yourself that play on 99.999% lag free displays you may notice something. But for the general public I doubt it is nearly as big a deal as a few people make out it.

Remember, it is the vocal minority that complain loud and long, and far less folks like me that put in a few thousands hours a year of gaming and have no perceivable issues to speak of, online or offline gaming.

If you start to delve deeper into the brains perception of input lag you would know that the brain adapts, where you may see a problem day one, in short order you mind is able to over look this disparity in time, you are already dealing with wireless controls that introduce lag, network connections, every device connection (console to projector vs console to receive to projector) they all add something to the chain, and the brain will compensate for it rather quickly.

Some people are more adept at compensating for the lag, others it may take longer, but of the thousands of x500 users, I see a very small community complaining while the rest of us are off enjoying this fantastic unit for movies AND games.
So you, knowing there's a significant (ie much greater than other competitive options) lag, recommend a $5195 machine to someone who wants to game, hoping they fall into one of those categories?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cofn42 View Post
Going forward we are all going to have to get used to the lag, as all the new PJs out there (Sony's 4K, the new Epson Laser, all the JVC line), all the high end stuff suffers the exact same lag.
Incorrect, the Sony 4Ks have a game mode which, IIRC, has a lag of about 24ms, actually one of the better machines.
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post #4418 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
For many people the lag, with all processing turned off is too high, I was thinking it was closer to 75ms rather than 125.
I believe the RS46 (and the other previous-to-X500 models) were about 75ms -- JVC blessed us with the additional lag when they introduced the iris and unfortunately it is not avoidable even when disabling the iris.
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post #4419 of 6399 Old 07-27-2015, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
So I am seeing discoloration on single pixel row patterns. They resolve fine, but there is blueish and reddish discoloration in the background. This does not appear in any solid field pattern or in any real content. Also does not seem be visible in 2 and 4 pixel wide patterns.

I have an oppo 103D and I also testing it with a ps3. I have calibrated using calman and a c6/i1pro to correct greyscale and gamma. I have set contrast and brightness....both left at 0 with HDMI mode set to standard. Colorspace is forced to 4:4:4 or I see chroma up sampling errors. I did try other modes. I turned off the darbee processing as well.

I tried changing the orientation from front to front ceiling to rear and rear ceiling to eliminate panel uniformity. But the discoloration moves as I rotate the image. So its not fixed to certain parts of the panels.


Not sure what would cause this. It has no adverse affect on real content and I as I said, full window patterns are clean. ideas? I posted this to the calibration thread as well, but thought owners might have some ideas.

Answered my own question. Might be informative for others.

It was the pixel level convergence adjustment. I had used a bit of correction in a few zones. If I turn that off the discoloration is gone. Using a different pixel memory I adjusted just one zone a few ticks and sure enough you could see a color spot on the checkerboard pixel pattern. Doesn't appear on solid patterns or 2 and 3 pixel patterns. So now which is the better tradeoff!
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post #4420 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 07:08 AM
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This X-500 will it give me a vastly magnficet better picture on my 106" screen?

Dreamscreen 106" of Canada. Grey gain 1.0 Throw 4 meter
Not easily darkened room no dedicated room

I was about to buy the sony 55 es, but I got some extra money, want to consider this one also.

I have a Benq 1070, it wil be sold in a short time-
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post #4421 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post
This X-500 will it give me a vastly magnficet better picture on my 106" screen?

Dreamscreen 106" of Canada. Grey gain 1.0 Throw 4 meter
Not easily darkened room no dedicated room

I was about to buy the sony 55 es, but I got some extra money, want to consider this one also.

I have a Benq 1070, it wil be sold in a short time-
Vastly? Probably not, especially in a non-light controlled room. Also depends on what you watch primarily.
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post #4422 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post
This X-500 will it give me a vastly magnficet better picture on my 106" screen?

Dreamscreen 106" of Canada. Grey gain 1.0 Throw 4 meter
Not easily darkened room no dedicated room

I was about to buy the sony 55 es, but I got some extra money, want to consider this one also.

I have a Benq 1070, it wil be sold in a short time-

If you could swing it, the BenQ and JVC would make a great combo. Use the BenQ for gaming and and non critical viewing and use the JVC at night for Blu-Rays and certain TV shows. That would be about a perfect set up.

Listening with Focal Elex headphones, Topping DSD Dac, SENCUN-audio tube preamp with tone control and Modded Little Dot hybrid tube amp with Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes, Dual Discrete Op-Amp SS3602, and Alps Blue Velvet volume pot.

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post #4423 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
If you could swing it, the BenQ and JVC would make a great combo. Use the BenQ for gaming and and non critical viewing and use the JVC at night for Blu-Rays and certain TV shows. That would be about a perfect set up.

Not only that, 2 projector setups are just plain fun !

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post #4424 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 10:11 AM
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...I have the JVC 57 model but I thought I'd get a faster response here...

...the question revolves around my 57 changing inputs from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2...

...I have four units attached to my Anthem Statement D2 v3d unit; the first three are by HDMI cable...the fourth (laser disc player with u-picture output)......the Anthem in turn is attached via HDMI to the JVC which is aprox. 30 feet from the equipment id'd above...(the equipment: DISH, region free Pioneer Elite, Pioneer Elite, Philips Laser Disc)...

...when I turn on either Pioneer's with the JVC on everything is ok up to the point that the disc being played tries to get to the disc menu...it's at that point that the JVC takes it upon itself to change the input from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2...

...I initially was using a monoprice HDMI cable when this started happening...then I changed to an Audioquest cable (2 15ft runs attached together with the Audioquest HDMI extender...I purchased the Audioquests in this manor because any Audioquest cables longer than 15feet loose one of it's primary elements but can be corrected by the use of the extender...)

...I have no idea what's going on! (which is not unusual for me!)

...any help would be appreciated.

...according the the Audioquest site: High Speed Capacity cables up to 10 meters meet the 10.2 Gdps max approved rate for HDMI high speed with ethernet; from 10 meters on...the cables are with standard speed with ethernet...

...whether this description is valid or not...the problem also exists with the monoprice cable...

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post #4425 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Not only that, 2 projector setups are just plain fun !

no gaming not at all Tried that ps 3 and Tomb Raider, the latest Learned quickly I was gotten way to old, then sold it all cheap ..

Watching

1 True Grite the Jon Wayne original

2 Interstellar

3 Cloud atlas

4 Predator

5 Sunshine

6 Bourne series

7 Die Hard 4

8 .ExMachine

9 Breaking Bad

.... just to meention the last days watchlist of mine

10 Games of Throne
will watch that on my Samsung 65" ju7005, makin hbo kind of watchable
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post #4426 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:01 PM
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all this talking of game lag of 100ms (or 0.10 seconds).... Does 1/10 of a second really make that much of a difference in game playing? Mind you, I am not a game player (I am over 60 yo and slow as molasses when it comes to gaming)....

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #4427 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post
no gaming not at all Tried that ps 3 and Tomb Raider, the latest Learned quickly I was gotten way to old, then sold it all cheap ..

Watching

1 True Grite the Jon Wayne original

2 Interstellar

3 Cloud atlas

4 Predator

5 Sunshine

6 Bourne series

7 Die Hard 4

8 .ExMachine

9 Breaking Bad

.... just to meention the last days watchlist of mine

10 Games of Throne
will watch that on my Samsung 65" ju7005, makin hbo kind of watchable
Looks like mostly movie watching. I would get the JVC and enjoy.
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post #4428 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:21 PM
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Can anyone here comment on how well the built in masking works on this projector? I looked at the user manual and it isn't very clear on how the system works.

This projector is on my short list and I will be zooming for CIH. I'm wondering if the built in masking feature will allow me to watch films that constantly switch aspects from 2.35 to 1.78, in 2.35 for the duration of the film. any thoughts?
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post #4429 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
all this talking of game lag of 100ms (or 0.10 seconds).... Does 1/10 of a second really make that much of a difference in game playing? Mind you, I am not a game player (I am over 60 yo and slow as molasses when it comes to gaming)....


Yes

There is defiantly a perceivable difference, but it might not matter to everyone. 100ms would be considered poor where as 30ms would be good and 1ms excellent. Again some may not care about 100ms so it is a bit of an objective and subjective bag.

Listening with Focal Elex headphones, Topping DSD Dac, SENCUN-audio tube preamp with tone control and Modded Little Dot hybrid tube amp with Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes, Dual Discrete Op-Amp SS3602, and Alps Blue Velvet volume pot.

Watching in a room ensconced in velvet.

Last edited by cardoski; 07-28-2015 at 01:34 PM.
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post #4430 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jubrown View Post
Can anyone here comment on how well the built in masking works on this projector? I looked at the user manual and it isn't very clear on how the system works.



This projector is on my short list and I will be zooming for CIH. I'm wondering if the built in masking feature will allow me to watch films that constantly switch aspects from 2.35 to 1.78, in 2.35 for the duration of the film. any thoughts?

Now that you mention it, I also would like to know if the black bars are "projected" or they are masked out. If they are "projected", I'm guessing they are extremely dark that I wouldn't need to add a masking strip of velvet on my wall to prevent from seeing them?

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post #4431 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jubrown View Post
Can anyone here comment on how well the built in masking works on this projector? I looked at the user manual and it isn't very clear on how the system works.

This projector is on my short list and I will be zooming for CIH. I'm wondering if the built in masking feature will allow me to watch films that constantly switch aspects from 2.35 to 1.78, in 2.35 for the duration of the film. any thoughts?
Films that change aspect ratio are a problem with any projector that uses zoom memory. With blanking the 16:9 image is cut off top and bottom. Without blanking the 16:9 image top and bottom are above and below the scope screen.

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Now that you mention it, I also would like to know if the black bars are "projected" or they are masked out. If they are "projected", I'm guessing they are extremely dark that I wouldn't need to add a masking strip of velvet on my wall to prevent from seeing them?
The black bars are pretty dark. As long as your walls are not white or some other real light color, you will not notice the black bars.
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post #4432 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post
Now that you mention it, I also would like to know if the black bars are "projected" or they are masked out. If they are "projected", I'm guessing they are extremely dark that I wouldn't need to add a masking strip of velvet on my wall to prevent from seeing them?
[URL="http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/00/01/56/15683.PDF"[/URL]

Page 51 of the above link shows that you can apply masking, but it seems to mask all 4 sides, which doesn't seem to make sense to me.
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post #4433 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubrown View Post
Can anyone here comment on how well the built in masking works on this projector? I looked at the user manual and it isn't very clear on how the system works.

This projector is on my short list and I will be zooming for CIH. I'm wondering if the built in masking feature will allow me to watch films that constantly switch aspects from 2.35 to 1.78, in 2.35 for the duration of the film. any thoughts?
My 4810 (older model) can do masking but only a small amount, not enough for this. The masking is only electronic image manipulation, the same as if that part of the image was black.

The Lumagen Radiance can do electronic masking of any size.
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post #4434 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubrown View Post
[URL="http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/00/01/56/15683.PDF"[/URL]

Page 51 of the above link shows that you can apply masking, but it seems to mask all 4 sides, which doesn't seem to make sense to me.
My 4810 manual says the same thing, but I could swear I played with it once and it could do top/bottom masking without any side masking.
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post #4435 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post
My 4810 manual says the same thing, but I could swear I played with it once and it could do top/bottom masking without any side masking.
Probably what the manual means by "custom"

The other option is using HTPC and XBMC with Confluence skin. can crop in the extra bars.
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post #4436 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 03:33 PM
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You cannot nearly fully blank the top/bottom of the image to mask off a 2.35:1 image with in the built-in masking functionality. You will need a video processor or other external method for applying the mask such as a Lumagen or within your HTPC player software.
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post #4437 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jubrown View Post
The other option is using HTPC and XBMC with Confluence skin. can crop in the extra bars.

How exactly I do that? Sounds like that could do the trick!

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post #4438 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 07:55 PM
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Evening All,

I really do not wish to read +4400 posts to educate myself with what might be offered in full in this thread and thus I apologize in advance for asking this naive question:

What are the major differences between the RS49 and RS4910? Very curious. I tried to use offsite places (projector central), but that site insisted my RS20 had a dynamic iris so I decided maybe I should focus on finding the 49/4910 differences elsewhere.

Any information (good or bad), in short, would be greatly appreciated.

"What we do in life echoes in eternity." General Maximus Decimus Meridius
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post #4439 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18628239 View Post
Evening All,

I really do not wish to read +4400 posts to educate myself with what might be offered in full in this thread and thus I apologize in advance for asking this naive question:

What are the major differences between the RS49 and RS4910? Very curious. I tried to use offsite places (projector central), but that site insisted my RS20 had a dynamic iris so I decided maybe I should focus on finding the 49/4910 differences elsewhere.

Any information (good or bad), in short, would be greatly appreciated.
Same projector, with the following differences.

4910 3 year warranty. 49 with 2 year warranty.
4910, ISF certification.
4910, extra inspection, before shipping.
4910 has gold trim ring around lens.
49 has Silver trim ring around lens.

If we can help answer questions or provide pricing, give us a call.
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post #4440 of 6399 Old 07-28-2015, 10:11 PM
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Try to connect the Shield directly to the X500 (try HDMI 1 and HDMI 2) and see if you get the same issue. If you don't, connect each component back one by one and see what causes the issue. If you still do, try another high speed cable.


Maybe the other HDfix22 users will be able to help further.


Found out my receiver, while advertised as [email protected], will only upscale to 60hz and cannot pass through. That makes me want to move to another manufacture. I could be wrong though so I refrain from trashing the name. I can run the reciever at 30hz and 24hz, but the Key Digital device doesn't have a 24hz option only a 30 or 60hz option, which makes no sense at all, so I'm stuck with 30hz. I took another look at 4k Netflix yesterday, the video is better, I must have had a bad stream on my first test, or the material just sucked. The only issue now is the frame dropping, skipping, which seems to be related to running it at 30hz instead of 24.

Running 60hz directly to the projector just doesn't work. If I get an image long enough, it wiggles a bit by a few pixels horizontally, but then completely cuts out once there is movement. I even used little hdmi amps that you plug inline without power, that helped a little bit, but ultimately it would not stay stable at all. I would imagine I need to try a recommended cable around here. I'm running around 25feet or so. I tried both inputs.

The other issue with bypassing the receiver is that the digital audio out on the KeyDigital is not functional unless used in 2.0 audio, which will just stop the Netflix stream all together. Would a 4k HDMI splitter work for this?

If not it looks like I have to either get a new receiver (ugh, just bought this one last year), or wait to see what the new HDFury device will do.
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