Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 198 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5911 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
the gamme dark lvl control can't resolve 17 in the test pattern.
i think i have to set gamma 1.8 or 1.7 to resolve 17 in the test pattern, but the overall picture quality isn't very good then
With a higher gamma, it's not always possible or necessary to resolve level 17. See the following discussion (there are many others):
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post22748133


Quote:
how can i get the BT.1886 gamma curve?
from what i've read so far the x500 lacks the gamma equalizer (my old X30 had one) and "our" autocal version5 lacks this feature too.
i've read something about an arve-tool^^ is this a way to upload the BT1886 gamma curve?
Yes, you can you the Arve tool to upload the BT.1886 gamma curve, or modify it to suit.
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post #5912 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
With a higher gamma, it's not always possible or necessary to resolve level 17. See the following discussion (there are many others):




Yes, you can you the Arve tool to upload the BT.1886 gamma curve, or modify it to suit.
hello dominic, thanks for your answer.

i think, i'll give the arve-tool a try!
what's the best approach to upload a custom BT.1886 gamma curve into my X500?
is there any "standard" BT1886 curve i can use as a baseline, or do i have to create it from the scratch?
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post #5913 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
i think, i'll give the arve-tool a try!
what's the best approach to upload a custom BT.1886 gamma curve into my X500?
is there any "standard" BT1886 curve i can use as a baseline, or do i have to create it from the scratch?
The Arve Tool includes a "preset" BT1886. You can try that before modifying the parameters (if necessary). Note, however, you need to use the specific version of Arve Tool for the 2014 projectors.

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post #5914 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 08:18 AM
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okay, i found the arve tool at github^^

according to arve's last entry in your issue chat, he says that the files in the wip branch will do the trick for 2014 models, is this correct?
or should i get the files from the test2014 branch?
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post #5915 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
okay, i found the arve tool at github^^

according to arve's last entry in your issue chat, he says that the files in the wip branch will do the trick for 2014 models, is this correct?
or should i get the files from the test2014 branch?
I have only tested the 2014 branch and that works with the rs4910. Haven't tried the WIP branch.

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post #5916 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 10:51 AM
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looks like the BT.1886 upload worked to custom1 - import, because i can barely see 17 flashing now^^

the bad news is, that on the other end 230-234 wont flash any more!
i guess this is where i have to tinker with the curve now, right?
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post #5917 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
the gamme dark lvl control can't resolve 17 in the test pattern.
i think i have to set gamma 1.8 or 1.7 to resolve 17 in the test pattern, but the overall picture quality isn't very good then
FWIR I've been able to resolve 17 or even 16 when setting input to Enhanced or Super White (can't remember which), then after adjusting bright/contrast for that input setting was able to resolve 17 and still have a good picture. I think I even set it to a pic memory and switched between a non-enhanced input memory and even though the enhanced could resolve 17, I could not see a difference after bright/contrast was set for each input setting. Shadow details and blacks appeared the same, though on the test pattern I could see 17 ----which was the only place I could see the difference.

I just run a standard input now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
how can i get the BT.1886 gamma curve?
from what i've read so far the x500 lacks the gamma equalizer (my old X30 had one) and "our" autocal version5 lacks this feature too.
i've read something about an arve-tool^^ is this a way to upload the BT1886 gamma curve?
That arve tool seems to be above my pay grade. I wish there was a step by step instructions on how to do this? Somewhere? For someone like myself ---no calibration software or even the correct cable (though I'd buy it of course).

Though if SubzeroX is gonna upload BT1886, maybe I'll wait for his results on how it helped his black crush/pic quality...?
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post #5918 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
looks like the BT.1886 upload worked to custom1 - import, because i can barely see 17 flashing now^^

the bad news is, that on the other end 230-234 wont flash any more!
i guess this is where i have to tinker with the curve now, right?
You might try the superwhite input setting, readjust bright/contrast.

How is your black crush now with BT1886?
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post #5919 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
looks like the BT.1886 upload worked to custom1 - import, because i can barely see 17 flashing now^^

the bad news is, that on the other end 230-234 wont flash any more!
i guess this is where i have to tinker with the curve now, right?
Have you tried re-adjusting the contrast?

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post #5920 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
For someone like myself ---no calibration software or even the correct cable (though I'd buy it of course).
You only need an ethernet cable to connect the laptop to the projector. Other than the Arve tool (and Python), no other calibration software required.

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post #5921 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You only need an ethernet cable to connect the laptop to the projector. Other than the Arve tool (and Python), no other calibration software required.
Ok, though I know nothing about Arve and Python and how to use them to upload BT1886.

I did some googling but wasn't able to get specific hits. Is there a step by step somewhere that I'm not finding?

Sorry if it seems like I'm a newb with this, but I am
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post #5922 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
How is your black crush now with BT1886?
still testing^^
...maybe i watched the wrong movies which have a low APL the whole film like pacific rim
is it called a black crush if in low APL scenes an actors black hair is just a black area without any details?
or ms mori's coat and umbrella have absolute no structure and details when raleigh becket arrives with the heli at the shutterdome in hong kong?

what are recommended blurays or movie scenes to check if the level of detail is ok in low APL scenes?

Arve tool: everything you need for a x500 is inside the test2014 branch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
still testing^^
...maybe i watched the wrong movies which have a low APL the whole film like pacific rim
is it called a black crush if in low APL scenes an actors black hair is just a black area without any details?
or ms mori's coat and umbrella have absolute no structure and details when raleigh becket arrives with the heli at the shutterdome in hong kong?

what are recommended blurays or movie scenes to check if the level of detail is ok in low APL scenes?

Arve tool: everything you need for a x500 is inside the test2014 branch
Would the Arve tool allow us to upload an HDR custom gama curve to the X500 ?
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post #5924 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
still testing^^
...maybe i watched the wrong movies which have a low APL the whole film like pacific rim
is it called a black crush if in low APL scenes an actors black hair is just a black area without any details?
or ms mori's coat and umbrella have absolute no structure and details when raleigh becket arrives with the heli at the shutterdome in hong kong?

what are recommended blurays or movie scenes to check if the level of detail is ok in low APL scenes?
Hope others will comment, but I try to use blu rays that don't appear to have black crush encoded/mastered into the disc.

I think Lucy and Prometheus are good discs. Lucy--I like looking at the black suits in the hotel lobby scene (reception desk and when the goon squad walks in).
Maybe some of the initial Morgan Freeman/Cruise interrogations in Oblivion.

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Originally Posted by SubzeroX View Post
Arve tool: everything you need for a x500 is inside the test2014 branch
You mean this?>> https://github.com/arvehj/jvcproject.../tree/test2014

I maybe daft at this cos I didn't really find a step by step there and didn't really understand how to do it other than using/loading Python and Arve. Googling both kinda brings up sites that seem to assuming people know what they're doing to download and use.
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post #5925 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
I maybe daft at this cos I didn't really find a step by step there and didn't really understand how to do it other than using/loading Python and Arve. Googling both kinda brings up sites that seem to assuming people know what they're doing to download and use.
Here's the guide for the Arve Tool. It was written for the newer projectors but the principle is the same.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50960289

I didn't use any of the HDR custom curves. Only use the tool to upload the preset BT.1886 curve.

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post #5926 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Here's the guide for the Arve Tool. It was written for the newer projectors but the principle is the same.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50960289

I didn't use any of the HDR custom curves. Only use the tool to upload the preset BT.1886 curve.
Thanks a bunch Dominic! That looks to be the guide I was hoping to find!

Couple of questions>

>>It did mention to do the autocal first. Optional I guess?

>>>According to this>>> "g. Before you move any further, now start the JVC Autocal software, go to ‘Settings’ and note down the IP address and port number of your projector shown within that page." ....it would seem I need to download JVC's autocal software, which I know is free via JVC. No biggie.

So I would actually being using JVC's autocal software to upload the BT1886 via the BT1886 curve in/from Arve/Python, correct?

I wouldn't actually need to do an autocal (I have no meter), just using the autocal software to upload....but I should of course be careful to install the BT1886 gamma into an empty slot so I don't overwrite a pre existing gamma curve. Correct?

Last edited by fleaman; 07-16-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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post #5927 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 05:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
Thanks a bunch Dominic! That looks to be the guide I was hoping to find!

Couple of questions>

>>It did mention to do the autocal first. Optional I guess?

>>>According to this>>> "g. Before you move any further, now start the JVC Autocal software, go to ‘Settings’ and note down the IP address and port number of your projector shown within that page." ....it would seem I need to download JVC's autocal software, which I know is free via JVC. No biggie.

So I would actually being using JVC's autocal software to upload the BT1886 via the BT1886 curve in/from Arve/Python, correct?

I wouldn't actually need to do an autocal (I have no meter), just using the autocal software to upload....but I should of course be careful to install the BT1886 gamma into an empty slot so I don't overwrite a pre existing gamma curve. Correct?
If it is confirmed we can upload custom Gamma curves, there is a potential for full UHD Bluray support (provided you have something like an integral to overcome HDCP 2.2). I have successfully loaded the BT2020 color profile, so if we pair it with an HDR Gamma curve, we could potentially send the HDR (forced) signal directly from the player. Am I missing something ?
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post #5928 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
>>It did mention to do the autocal first. Optional I guess?
The Arve Tool does not do any actual calibrations; it only generates and uploads a "theoretical" curve which assumes that the projector is calibrated. Thus, the overall performance of the projector after you've uploaded the curve will be affected by how well your projector matches a properly calibrated projector.
Quote:
>>>According to this>>> "g. Before you move any further, now start the JVC Autocal software, go to ‘Settings’ and note down the IP address and port number of your projector shown within that page." ....it would seem I need to download JVC's autocal software, which I know is free via JVC. No biggie.
Yes, no biggie, but the IP address is set directly from the projector user interface, not in the JVC Autocal software. The default port number should work as nothing else would have changed it.

Quote:
So I would actually being using JVC's autocal software to upload the BT1886 via the BT1886 curve in/from Arve/Python, correct?
No, the Arve Tool includes the upload function which works with high resolution gamma curves (256 points, if I remember correctly). The JVC autocal software works at a much lower resolution (12 points); besides, the V5 software does not even include any functionality to upload custom gamma curves.

Quote:
I wouldn't actually need to do an autocal (I have no meter), just using the autocal software to upload....but I should of course be careful to install the BT1886 gamma into an empty slot so I don't overwrite a pre existing gamma curve. Correct?
Not really an issue as the custom gamma curves have their dedicated slots; you cannot load them into the standard slots.

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post #5929 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afss_br View Post
If it is confirmed we can upload custom Gamma curves, there is a potential for full UHD Bluray support (provided you have something like an integral to overcome HDCP 2.2). I have successfully loaded the BT2020 color profile, so if we pair it with an HDR Gamma curve, we could potentially send the HDR (forced) signal directly from the player. Am I missing something ?
I have confirmed that the Arve Tool can upload custom gamma curves to the x500R.

However, since these projectors have relatively low lumens, HDR won't look very good unless you have a smallish screen.

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post #5930 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I have confirmed that the Arve Tool can upload custom gamma curves to the x500R.

However, since these projectors have relatively low lumens, HDR won't look very good unless you have a smallish screen.
Thanks Dominic, I will play around with it this week and report back !
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post #5931 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, no biggie, but the IP address is set directly from the projector user interface, not in the JVC Autocal software. The default port number should work as nothing else would have changed it.
From that pdf instructions it mentioned to start up JVC autocal, go to 'settings' to get the PJ IP address?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
No, the Arve Tool includes the upload function which works with high resolution gamma curves (256 points, if I remember correctly). The JVC autocal software works at a much lower resolution (12 points); besides, the V5 software does not even include any functionality to upload custom gamma curves.
Ok, so JVC autocal is not used to upload anything.

Though I might have to use it to at least get the PJ IP address to enter into the Arves tool, right?
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Picked up a very nice sample, low hour X500. Is the wide color gamut coverage worth it for UHD BD with the bt2020 file after calibration, or better to just stick with rec 709? I'm using the Panasonic UB900 and Linker. I'm impressed with the natural sharpness of eshift3 with UHD BDs. Hoping to get Chad B out next month.
It's subtle but it's worth it IMHO.
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post #5933 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 06:53 PM
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From that pdf instructions it mentioned to start up JVC autocal, go to 'settings' to get the PJ IP address?
You can read the IP address there, but it's a setting you enter manually in the projector user interface, even before you run Autocal. This assumes you connect the projector directly to the computer (rather than to the router).

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Interesting to hear Arve's tool will work for this. It's a shame the auto-calibration software that's on JVC's website doesn't have a gamma upload function like it does for the newer models. It would make things a lot easier. We could just upload curves. They won't be quite a precise as Arve's tool, but will get 90% of the way there which is good enough for most people.
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post #5935 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I have confirmed that the Arve Tool can upload custom gamma curves to the x500R.

However, since these projectors have relatively low lumens, HDR won't look very good unless you have a smallish screen.
Could you write guide "step by step" used Arve tool? Thanks.
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post #5936 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Interesting to hear Arve's tool will work for this. It's a shame the auto-calibration software that's on JVC's website doesn't have a gamma upload function like it does for the newer models. It would make things a lot easier. We could just upload curves. They won't be quite a precise as Arve's tool, but will get 90% of the way there which is good enough for most people.
While you're here, do you have a solution for the issue of the projector automatically switching to the "4K 50/60p" picture mode? With my projector, that mode is totally "off" and cannot be calibrated.

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post #5937 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 08:43 PM
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Could you write guide "step by step" used Arve tool? Thanks.
See post 5922 above.
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post #5938 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
See post 5922 above.
Thanks, did you calibrate RS4910 by HCFR (used X-Rite Eye-One)? it's result is exactly as autocal from JVC?
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post #5939 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 09:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
While you're here, do you have a solution for the issue of the projector automatically switching to the "4K 50/60p" picture mode? With my projector, that mode is totally "off" and cannot be calibrated.
It almost sounds like the previous owner has saved a Picture Mode when it detects a 4K signal. Just like each of the HDMI inputs, the JVC RS4910 will remember picture/menu settings on a resolution input basis. So essentially when it detects a 4K input, it automatically is switching to one of the other picture modes. Next time you send a 4K signal, press the Menu button and and select another Picture Mode. Custom 1 would be a good neutral option. Let me know if that works.
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post #5940 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
It almost sounds like the previous owner has saved a Picture Mode when it detects a 4K signal. Just like each of the HDMI inputs, the JVC RS4910 will remember picture/menu settings on a resolution input basis. So essentially when it detects a 4K input, it automatically is switching to one of the other picture modes. Next time you send a 4K signal, press the Menu button and and select another Picture Mode. Custom 1 would be a good neutral option. Let me know if that works.
No, when the projector gets a 4K 50/60p input signal it automatically switches to that picture mode, and I cannot manually select any other mode. Conversely, the "4K 40/60p" picture mode does not show up as an option when the correct input is not there.
When a 4K 30 input signal is present, the projector does not initiate any mode switching.

JVC DLA-NX7; Denon AVR-X3400H; HD Fury Vertex; ATV4K; Fire TV Cube
JVC Projector Bright Curves; Optimizing HDR;
Creating a basic HDR curve using Arve’s Tool;
Replacing JVC Bare Bulbs
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