Official JVC DILA-X500R / RS49U / RS4910U Owners Thread - Page 199 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5941 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 10:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
No, when the projector gets a 4K 50/60p input signal it automatically switches to that picture mode, and I cannot manually select any other mode. Conversely, the "4K 40/60p" picture mode does not show up as an option when the correct input is not there.
When a 4K 30 input signal is present, the projector does not initiate any mode switching.
What source component are you feeding the projector a 4K signal with when you have this issue?
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post #5942 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by khactuyen View Post
Thanks, did you calibrate RS4910 by HCFR (used X-Rite Eye-One)? it's result is exactly as autocal from JVC?
The RS4910 does not provide the user interface for 12-point grey scale or gamma calibration, unlike the older or newer models. Not only that, Autocal uses the Spyder4 meter so the readings will not exactly match the i1D3 readings.
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post #5943 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
What source component are you feeding the projector a 4K signal with when you have this issue?
The first time I noticed this issue, I was using my "Fibe TV" receiver when changing the output from 1080p to 4k. However, the projector behaves the same way if I turn on the output scaling function of my Denon 3300W receiver for 1080p input sources.
It appears that this behavior is normal for the projector, according to the Owners Manual. The issue I have, is that the grey scale is way off and there's no way to correct it.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 07-16-2017 at 10:45 PM.
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post #5944 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The RS4910 does not provide the user interface for 12-point grey scale or gamma calibration, unlike the older or newer models. Not only that, Autocal uses the Spyder4 meter so the readings will not exactly match the i1D3 readings.
The best result did you calibrate on RS4910? please send me a link how to do, thanks.
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post #5945 of 6399 Old 07-16-2017, 10:21 PM
 
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It's a very odd issue. I've never seen a JVC lock you into one specific picture mode. Most content, especially from TV sources is not 50p or 60p. Typically it's some integer smaller than this. I would check to see if there's a 24p or 30p output from your cable box. It sounds like the your source component is doing some kind of pulldown on the video and outputting it at 50 or 60p. I suspect the issue is that the signal being sent to the JVC is causing the issue where the JVC will only allow one specific mode to be used. I would see if changing the output settings on your source component can solve this issue. If the content itself is not 4K, I would suggest you let the JVC scale the image to 4K as it's scaling quality is generally pretty good and will allow you to use other picture modes.
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post #5946 of 6399 Old 07-17-2017, 04:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
It's a very odd issue. I've never seen a JVC lock you into one specific picture mode. Most content, especially from TV sources is not 50p or 60p. Typically it's some integer smaller than this. I would check to see if there's a 24p or 30p output from your cable box. It sounds like the your source component is doing some kind of pulldown on the video and outputting it at 50 or 60p. I suspect the issue is that the signal being sent to the JVC is causing the issue where the JVC will only allow one specific mode to be used. I would see if changing the output settings on your source component can solve this issue. If the content itself is not 4K, I would suggest you let the JVC scale the image to 4K as it's scaling quality is generally pretty good and will allow you to use other picture modes.
The only resolution/frame-rate that forces the x500 to lock into a specific picture mode is 4K @50p or @60p . This is exactly the behavior I get when I send this signal to my unit (it does not happen with 1080p, just 4K).
And when it locks on that mode, several of the controls are grayed out indeed. it seems to be too much power required for the limited processor of the x500...
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post #5947 of 6399 Old 07-17-2017, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by afss_br View Post
And when it locks on that mode, several of the controls are grayed out indeed. it seems to be too much power required for the limited processor of the x500...
That is the issue I'm encountering. In that mode, the projector does not seem to apply the autocal corrections, resulting in a greenish tint that cannot be corrected.
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post #5948 of 6399 Old 07-17-2017, 05:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That is the issue I'm encountering. In that mode, the projector does not seem to apply the autocal corrections, resulting in a greenish tint that cannot be corrected.
I don't believe there is a way around it, as it is more of a product limitation than an issue. It's documented in the user's manual, if you need more details on what gets disabled.
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post #5949 of 6399 Old 07-17-2017, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by afss_br View Post
I don't believe there is a way around it, as it is more of a product limitation than an issue. It's documented in the user's manual, if you need more details on what gets disabled.
The RGB Offset controls are disabled in this mode, hence the green tint that cannot be removed.
Ironically, I have not found it necessary to adjust the RGB Offsets in other modes, even though those can be adjusted.
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post #5950 of 6399 Old 07-17-2017, 10:59 AM
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Unfortunately you're kind-of "stuck" when feeding the projector 4K50/60. Good thing there's not much content in that format.
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post #5951 of 6399 Old 07-17-2017, 11:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Unfortunately you're kind-of "stuck" when feeding the projector 4K50/60. Good thing there's not much content in that format.
Exactly. As I said, the content he's watching is not actually 50 or 60p a 4K. There is some kind of pulldown happening, which means he should try and output to the projector at the native refresh rate of the content. If he does this it should unlock the projector and allow for more options in the menu to be used. I had an X500 for 2 years and feeding the projector a 4K/24p image does not have the same limitations.
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post #5952 of 6399 Old 07-17-2017, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Exactly. As I said, the content he's watching is not actually 50 or 60p a 4K. There is some kind of pulldown happening, which means he should try and output to the projector at the native refresh rate of the content. If he does this it should unlock the projector and allow for more options in the menu to be used. I had an X500 for 2 years and feeding the projector a 4K/24p image does not have the same limitations.
My set-top IPTV box is an Arris VIP5662W. It has only one output option for 4K UHD - 60 fps. The other settings are all 1080p or lower in resolution.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 07-18-2017 at 06:00 AM.
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post #5953 of 6399 Old 07-17-2017, 11:07 PM
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WCG question:
I have Netflix HDR working with an Nvidia Shield and an Integral set using an automix mode. Projector is reporting x.v.Color, the same as an HDR 4k disc would. The Netflix titles show the "HDR" tag. I have the BT2020 profile loaded but the colors are desaturated. A HDR 4k disc looks great with the BT2020 profile, but Netflix does not. What do I need to do to get this to look right?
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post #5954 of 6399 Old 07-18-2017, 03:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AekaGSR View Post
WCG question:
I have Netflix HDR working with an Nvidia Shield and an Integral set using an automix mode. Projector is reporting x.v.Color, the same as an HDR 4k disc would. The Netflix titles show the "HDR" tag. I have the BT2020 profile loaded but the colors are desaturated. A HDR 4k disc looks great with the BT2020 profile, but Netflix does not. What do I need to do to get this to look right?
The problem you are seeing is likely the gamma curve on the projector not being HDR. You would need the player to output BT2020 with SDR, but I doubt the Shield can do that (only the OPPO does it with strip metadata, but it does not do a good job yet - the panasonic can also do it with the HDfury Integral).

I have tried to load the HDR Gamma curve using the Arve tool so that the x500 would accept the HDR/BT2020 signal natively but the Arve tool does not seem to work properly. I noticed a slight gamma change when I loaded the first custom gamma curve, but then after that I could not see any changes, despite the tool reporting a successful handshaking with the projector.

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post #5955 of 6399 Old 07-18-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by afss_br View Post
The problem you are seeing is likely the gamma curve on the projector not being HDR. You would need the player to output BT2020 with SDR, but I doubt the Shield can do that (only the OPPO does it with strip metadata, but it does not do a good job yet - the panasonic can also do it with the HDfury Integral).

I have tried to load the HDR Gamma curve using the Arve tool so that the x500 would accept the HDR/BT2020 signal natively but the Arve tool does not seem to work properly. I noticed a slight gamma change when I loaded the first custom gamma curve, but then after that I could not see any changes, despite the tool reporting a successful handshaking with the projector.

I have the Panasonic. What mode are you using?Are the apps are still locked at 60hz, so how well does this work.
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post #5956 of 6399 Old 07-18-2017, 01:46 PM
 
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I have the Panasonic. What mode are you using?Are the apps are still locked at 60hz, so how well does this work.
If you use the HDFury integral with the Panasonic 4K bluray player, I understand you can chose a specific EDID that tricks the player to send 4K BT2020 and SDR, which works well with the x500. I have an OPPO 203, which allows you do do that independently of the Integral, but unfortunately at this point does not do it well enough (Blacks and Whites are crushed).
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post #5957 of 6399 Old 07-18-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by afss_br View Post
If you use the HDFury integral with the Panasonic 4K bluray player, I understand you can chose a specific EDID that tricks the player to send 4K BT2020 and SDR, which works well with the x500. I have an OPPO 203, which allows you do do that independently of the Integral, but unfortunately at this point does not do it well enough (Blacks and Whites are crushed).
I wasn't being clear, I was asking about the Integral EDID mode. But it sounds like you are not using the Integral since you have an Oppo. I tried months ago and was not able to get BT2020 with the Panny with Netflix. I could get it fine with discs.
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post #5958 of 6399 Old 07-18-2017, 02:49 PM
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I think Lucy and Prometheus are good discs. Lucy--I like looking at the black suits in the hotel lobby scene (reception desk and when the goon squad walks in).
i did watch lucy and prometheus and both really looked awesome!

no noticeable black crush, the suits had a deep, inky black with a fine structure.
prometheus looked even better! the scenes in space or the investigation of the rocky cave had an incredible deep black but still a good vividness and a lot of details.

i used custom gamma set to 2.3 (low lamp, iris -7) but i didn't touch the brightnes or contrast sliders^^

now i'm really happy with my X500
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post #5959 of 6399 Old 07-18-2017, 02:50 PM
 
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i did watch lucy and prometheus and both really looked awesome!

no noticeable black crush, the suits had a deep, inky black with a fine structure.
prometheus looked even better! the scenes in space or the investigation of the rocky cave had an incredible deep black but still a good vividness and a lot of details.

i used custom gamma set to 2.3 (low lamp, iris -7) but i didn't touch the brightnes or contrast sliders^^

now i'm really happy with my X500
What 4k Bluray Player do you have ?
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post #5960 of 6399 Old 07-18-2017, 02:58 PM
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What 4k Bluray Player do you have ?
no 4k player - yet

just my good, old pioneer BDP-LX55
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post #5961 of 6399 Old 07-18-2017, 04:50 PM
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i did watch lucy and prometheus and both really looked awesome!

no noticeable black crush, the suits had a deep, inky black with a fine structure.
prometheus looked even better! the scenes in space or the investigation of the rocky cave had an incredible deep black but still a good vividness and a lot of details.

i used custom gamma set to 2.3 (low lamp, iris -7) but i didn't touch the brightnes or contrast sliders^^

now i'm really happy with my X500
Is that 'custom gamma 2.3' a different gamma than the stock 2.3 loaded in the X500? Because I get too much black crush with the gamma that high on my RS57/X700. I have to run like 2.1 to 2.2 gamma (and I think I have have the 'Dark Level' in the gamma adjustment at +1 or +2 across all colors if using the 2.2 gamma).

Have you tried the BT1886 gamma you uploaded?
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post #5962 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 12:44 AM
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Is that 'custom gamma 2.3' a different gamma than the stock 2.3 loaded in the X500? Because I get too much black crush with the gamma that high on my RS57/X700. I have to run like 2.1 to 2.2 gamma (and I think I have have the 'Dark Level' in the gamma adjustment at +1 or +2 across all colors if using the 2.2 gamma).

Have you tried the BT1886 gamma you uploaded?
no, i just select the 2.3 preset in custom 1. the difference between 2.3 and BT.1886 is barely visible^^ 2.3 is a touch darker, but the picture has more "depth".

have you ever done an autocal with JVCs software and a spyder 4?
if no, you should really consider doing it, because i did it and autocal corrected my gamma droop.
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post #5963 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 12:56 AM
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no, i just select the 2.3 preset in custom 1. the difference between 2.3 and BT.1886 is barely visible^^ 2.3 is a touch darker, but the picture has more "depth".

have you ever done an autocal with JVCs software and a spyder 4?
if no, you should really consider doing it, because i did it and autocal corrected my gamma droop.
No, no meter.

Thanks for the tip though, cos I do think I have the gamma drift.

That being said, I hacked a fix by using 2.1 to 2.2 gamma and bumping the 'Dark Level' +1 to +2.

Now I'm wondering how much better doing autocal would be vs my hack. I of course don't know....but I wonder if anyone was running a hack like mine, then did the autocal and could comment on the difference? Long shot, I know!

But, when you had posted you had black crush, was that before you did an autocal then? Or was that just some blu rays that had black crush authored in?

The only reason I'd buy a meter is to help with my gamma. But I'm afraid that after all the hoopla....buying the meter, learning and doing the autocal, etc., that the improvement might not be that different/better than my hack
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post #5964 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 12:59 AM
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Especially after reading about the luck of the draw with these meters. Like you can get an accurate one or one that is off enough that your result could be crap.

I really don't want to go through a meter shuffle....
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post #5965 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 01:08 AM
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i think i just watched the wrong stuff like some older shows like Terminator SCC or blurays like pacific rim^^
after watching the blurays you recommended, i'm really impressed with the performance of the X500

using autocal is really simple! get a spyder 4 (pro or elite) from ebay and install the autocal v5 on a laptop or pc.

there are very good step by step manuals how to perform an autocal with JVCs software.

edit: yea, i read about the spyder meter-lottery too, but if you just use it for correcting your gamma, you should be fine!
alot of owners "fix" their gamma with JVCs autocal and use another meter like the xrite i1Display pro and a different software (calman, HFCR, chromapure...) to calibrate the colors^^

Last edited by SubzeroX; 07-19-2017 at 01:14 AM.
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post #5966 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 01:23 AM
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edit: yea, i read about the spyder meter-lottery too, but if you just use it for correcting your gamma, you should be fine!
alot of owners "fix" their gamma with JVCs autocal and use another meter like the xrite i1Display pro and a different software (calman, HFCR, chromapure...) to calibrate the colors^^
Ok, good to know!

I'm more concerned about gamma than colors.

Thanks for the tips!

>>>Did you bother with color calibration at all anyways? And if so, how did it turn out?
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post #5967 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 01:24 AM
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there are very good step by step manuals how to perform an autocal with JVCs software.
Can you point me to some of those 'good' step by step manuals?

Thanks
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post #5968 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 01:27 AM
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i think i just watched the wrong stuff like some older shows like Terminator SCC or blurays like pacific rim^^
after watching the blurays you recommended, i'm really impressed with the performance of the X500
Ok, wait....how did you notice the autocal corrected your gamma drift? What material, before/after the autocal, showed the big improvement?

Cause it seemed like maybe you watched Lucy, etc. after the autocal buy not before??
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post #5969 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 01:30 AM
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in my first attempt, i selected gamm+color in the autocal software, but i wasn't pleased with the colors afterwards.

so i loaded the backup file back into the PJ and selected then gamm only (33 steps).

the result was a fixed gamma and good colors (colors judged by what i can see on the screen)^^

i'm going to buy a xrite i1display pro and use HFCR to check the my PJ, because all the calibration stuff is kinda cool
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post #5970 of 6399 Old 07-19-2017, 01:34 AM
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Ok, wait....how did you notice the autocal corrected your gamma drift? What material, before/after the autocal, showed the big improvement?
autocal shows you a before/after summary and i saw that my gamma had a droop^^

i haven't searched for english step by step manuals, because i needed it in german
maybe some friendly members here can give u a direct link to one of these manuals

Last edited by SubzeroX; 07-19-2017 at 02:06 AM.
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