I bought a S6700 and after some very non scientific testing, I can report that the 4K scaling in the Sony is not better than the internal e-shift scaling. So there you go.

My Control4 dealer is trying to get my projector to work with serial cable and we are having issues with the projector accepting a simple "On" command. "Off" command works as do the lens memory commands. I have a JVC RS4910 and they are using the driver from the X500 which is the same unit so I don't think that is the issue.

Any one have Control4 set up in their theater controlling their JVC through serial or IR? If you are using IR does anyone know where I can find the IR Pronto commands for lens memory 1, 2, 3? I found a JVC document that has the Hex codes but I need the Pronto codes. I am currently researching the Hex conversion to Pronto as there are various conversion programs but so far my dealer can't get them to work.

I thought I'd share my subjective findings playing UHD on my x500.

Test Method: I had both my original Sony blu-ray and my UB900 connected so I could switch between inputs 1 and 2 to see the difference between the Revenant in UHD and HD. I would also fully zoom in my lens to reduce my screen size for higher peak Y. I took pictures for A-B comparison, but I couldn't find a setting on my camera that even comes close to reproducing what I see on the screen. It could be a limitation on my camera, but its probably operator error :/

I found 2 scenes that I thought best described what I wanted to do. At 1:05:07 in the Revenant, there is a cliff scene with the sun and clouds in the sky which I used for checking highlight clipping. At 1:07:36 there is a snowy mountain scene for checking APL brighness. My goal for UHD playback was to have the screen as close to the same brightness as HD in the snow scene (because gray snow looks horrible) but maintain as much detail in the highlights in the sky scene. Shadow detail I used 2 scenes (0:31:40) which the chief is coming into the campfire light and 0:39:50 which is a northern lights scene (awesome for showing off UHD). I didn't make any adjustments based on the shadow ones, I just looked at them to see any differences.

Setup: My screen is 120", 2.35 aspect, 1.0 gain. No windows, black walls and ceiling, grey carpet.
HD mode - Color profile is cinema, iris @ -5 which gives ~15 ft-L on screen (50ish nits) on low lamp mode. Gamma is bt1886.
UHD mode - Color profile is manni's BT2020NF, iris @ -2 which gives ~15 ft-L on screen on low lamp and ~22 ft-L (75 nit) on high lamp. When I fully zoom, it reduces my screen to about 87", which gets me up to 33 ft-L (113 nit).
(As a side note - coderguy's new projector screen calculator matches pretty well what I measure - it's a helpful tool if you plan on making changes or designing a system)

My profiles have been recently auto cal'd and I used HCFR for peak Y. My UHD gamma was somewhat variable. I have looked at the following settings;
1. HDR-->SDR in the panny (setting 8 on the linker) with a bt1886 gamma and using the DR slider
2. HDR direct to the x500 (setting 10 on the linker) with custom gamma curves via Arves tool.

I spent the most amount of time tinkering with Arves tool, since there are so many variables to adjust. In the end, I used 225 peak/150 soft clip for low lamp, 325 peak/200 soft clip for high lamp and 400 peak/300 soft clip when my screen is zoomed in.

Findings for SDR and the DR slider (50 nit): I think the overall result is fair. I had to set the DR slider to +3 or +4 to get the snow to sorta resemble snow color. You lose a decent amount of highlight as compared to the bluray version, and the picture isn't as vivid. I saw gains in the darker scenes, especially the northern lights scene. In order to get the snow scene to have the same vividness as the bluray, the DR slider had to get up near the top end of the range and at that point there are no highlight details. Kind of a bummer, but thats what happens in low nit setups. I think on average I like the picture quality of bluray better.

Findings for HDR at 50 nit (low lamp): The arve tool allows you to adjust a little more precisely how a picture is displayed. I like the look of it a little more than the SDR conversion, but it not terribly different. However, I could see a difference in the low end. I have attached a couple of pictures that show the difference. The pictures don't show any of the mountain detail, but it does show that the arve tool was able to give more detail in this scene even though the snow scene and highlight clipping scene were nearly identical. It shows me that a custom gamma curve can do something better than what the panny can do.

Findings for HDR at 75 nit (high lamp): Its not night and day but the bump in brightness is nice. Everything looks better. I adjusted the gamma slightly, so I got more highlights but the change wasn't dramatic. I could still see that I was clipping a little and the snow scene was still a little washed out, but it was getting closer to the bluray version. My opinion is this would be the minimum brightness for upgrading to 4k. My opinion is that the picture quality on average is no worse than standard bluray, and certainly better in low light scenes.

Findings for HDR at 113 nit (zoom screen, high lamp): I tested this mode mainly to see if 100 nit was enough for good HDR, and the answer is yes. At 100 nit, I found that I didn't have to give up anything in the highlights to get the snow to look correct with much more punch depending on how I set the gamma. I didn't play with this setting a terrible amount since I'll never watch an 87 inch picture on my 120 inch screen, but it was worth knowing that 100 nit is positively as good as bluray.

Knowing everything I know now I would have skipped 4k until its time to upgrade my projector, at least in my setup. I would recommend to anyone thinking about upgrading to 4k to make sure they can get up to 75 nits out of their setup, otherwise you have to live with a picture that is arguably worse than what you get with bluray. I hope this adds something useful to the forum; I've certainly learned a lot from this site.

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The latest version of HCFR (v3.6.3) supports HDR with ST.2390 Tone Mapping. You may want to give it a try. You just need to specify the desired "Diffuse White" level. I found 30 nits to work well withe 100 nits pead.

Great findings! I am contemplating a similar endeavor as yours, maybe I won't now.

I am curious, how did you find the gain in resolution? Is it noticeable? I also have a 120" screen with my X500. I am interested in the UHD route mainly for the resolution bump (I find the SDR picture that the X500 throws to be quite beautiful and even breathtaking at times, but sometimes I want a bit more detail), and also because there are some UHD releases of older movies where only the UHD gets the remaster, Blade Runner most notably.

I designed my theater so that I wouldn't notice the resolution bump. Prior to building my system, I would look at still frames on my HDTV at distances from my nose on the screen to up to where i couldn't see pixels anymore. For me, I couldn't see the pixels at around 53 pixels per inch (viewing distance of 3.3 picture heights on a 2.35 screen ) and that is how I set my screen size (120") and seating distance (13 ft). From what I can tell, my math worked out because I certainly haven't noticed any finer details in UHD that I couldn't see before. I know Eshift will soften the image because of how it works, but at my viewing distance I actually can't tell its on when watching movies. What you will notice with UHD, and what I've been chasing, is trying to get the colors to look right. When I first turned it on, my reaction was this is horrible. Dull and lifeless. The custom curves are making it better, and hopefully I'll get it so I'm no worse off than normal bluray. I wouldn't upgrade for resolution gain, but that just my 2 cents. Everyone's got pennies.

Why are you not wanting to see a resolution bump? Maybe I am misinterpreting. When properly calibrated the wide color gamut should be very good for the X500. You might want to consider Chad B for a cal - I posted my HDR cal report elsewhere in the thread.

UHD BD will show a greater improvement in detail over BD if you are sitting close enough. I was sitting 9.5 feet back from a 9 foot wide scope screen. While eshift3 doesn't resolve as much detail as later eshift iterations, it still works well.

Its not that I wouldn't want a resolution bump, but I wouldn't like sitting close enough to notice. At 13 ft from a 120 inch screen, that is a 39 deg viewing angle. That not much different than watching a movie in the front middle seats at the theater, which happens to be where I like it. It also works out that is also the closest I can sit for HD content and not notice pixels. Its a spot where the stars align for me

More pixels are always better, but I'm not the type to sit in the front row of the theater.

What about getting the UHD Blade Runner and just sending 1080p to the X500?

If you watch mostly films, this is where a scope screen might help as you can sit closer to scope movies without it feeling too close- but not feel overwhelmed with 16:9 content. I found the height of the image versus the width to play a bigger factor in all of this. I wouldn't be able to sit 9.5 feet from a 9 foot wide 16:9 screen either. But no problem for scope. The lens memories work excellent on the JVC for CIH.

I have a panamorph lens and a scope screen. I could sit a smidge closer, but I like where I'm at.

I have a question to ask you JVC veterans here. I am looking to upgrade my 1080p PJ and initially I'm looking at the Optoma UHD60 4K PJ.

However, after some thinking, I realize perhaps even in the next 2-3 years, 90% of my viewing will still be Blu Ray and Cable TV. Maybe I'll buy and watch 5-10 UHD discs if at all a year but that's it.

And then I came across a used X500 for sale so I'm thinking maybe getting the used X500 is the better bet for me because of JVC's hearalded black level.

So does it make sense to buy a used X500 at this stage or should I just jump to the Optoma UHD60?

Thanks.

I had(still have it, but trying to sell) an RS4910, and I was trying to upgrade and go the 4K route. So I got an Oppo 203, an Nvidia Shield, and upgraded my Netflix plan. But didn't want to spend a lot of money, so tried my hand at Epson HC4000 - bright, but not insanely expensive. I couldn't live with it for more than 2 weeks because of the black levels, and the color and shadow details in JVC. I ended up coming across a good deal locally on an RS600, so returned my Epson.

If you're going to stick with 1080p content, there are going to be few better values than the JVC. Only issue is it doesn't have HDCP, which can be fixed with a Monoprice HDCP converter, or a HDFury Linker/Integral. The black levels are great. The brightness compared to the future generations is a bit lacking, 1300 lm compared to 1700 for the RS400, so thats a consideration as well. I used it in my living room, and the picture was decent depending on content with the lights on and an ALR screen. When its dark though, the projector really shines.

Not sure about the Optoma, but I watch a lot of movies and Netflix, and have a scope screen, so lens memory is a huge deal for me.

X500 all the way

But of course you asked this on a JVC thread

That being said, my first PJ (some 13 years ago) was an Optoma H30, then H31, then a Mitsubishi HC3800 ---- All DLP's (like the UHD60).

DLP can't hold a candle to JVC's for blacks/contrast. Unless you're literally holding a candle in front of the screen.

My biggest concern going from DLP (the HC3800) to JVC was sharpness and bright scene pop. Sharpness was about the same (single chip advantage with HC3800, but the JVC has a WAY better lens, ended up about the same in the end). Bright scene pop had a slight advantage to the HC3800, but part of that might of been a calibration difference. Only recently had I done a JVC autocalibrate with a spyder4 meter to fix the gamma droop issue. I bought my JVC RS57 (X700) used almost a year ago. Had 580 hrs on it and had to run a low gamma---in the 2.0/2.1 range (and some +2 on the dark gamma adj) to avoid black crush. After the autocal it appears my bright scene content pops a bit more. Hard to know for sure w/o a side by side, which can't be done.

As for a true 4k PJ? Most of the advantage of 4k isn't just the resolution, it's the HDR, wider color gamut/bits, etc. Projectors---any, can't really take advantage of the HDR. Resolution> My RS57 has super thin pixel lines---I can't see them unless my nose at the screen. Turn on the eshift and they disappear. That being said, I leave eshift off. How close are you sitting to the screen?

Though the UHD 4k discs might be mastered better and overall a better 'source'. The UHD 4k Blade Runner is remastered, the blu ray version is not. Though I don't see why you can't get a UHD player and just output 1080p to the PJ. That might look better than the blu ray version.


What 1080p PJ do you have now?

My current PJ is Panny 7000 which is a middle of the road PJ in black level. I expect the X500R will be a step up from the Panny 7000. I'm sitting 12 feet and my screen is 110" 16:9.

Funny I was looking at the new Epson 4000 as well but I think I can cross it off now thanks to your input. BTW, I have a blacked out media room, so the lower light output of the X500 shouldn't be too much of an issue, should it?

If you want, you can still try it out. Most good places have a decent return policy. Nothing like seeing it in your own setup.
But yeah, if you have a fully blacked out room, it will definitely be no match for JVC. The native contrast on the JVC is 60k:1

What screen size are you using?

My screen is 110" 16:9 and I sit about 11 feet from it.

Oh, the PJ should be plenty bright. I have a 103" scope screen - 1.1 gain, and I ran it on low lamp.

Ok, you're right at 1.5x screen widths back viewing distance. The resolution of the display (PJ) is not gonna be an issue at all for 1080p, and essentially unnoticeable at 4k. Now, as for the source, blu ray on 1080p display vs 4k on 4k display? If the source is the same....say a blu ray mastered from the same UHD 4k source, I'm guessing the differences are gonna be more display dependent. For example> The optoma might be a single chip, but will likely have a way worse lens than the JVC, so 'sharpness' might be about the same, or even worse than the JVC.

Also, the Optoma UHD60 is not a true native 4k PJ. It uses pixel shifting to achieve 4k. The JVC uses pixel shifting to do faux 4k also. No idea which does it better.
The UHD60 also has no DI. It dims the lamp to achieve those brochure happy contrast specs--which would only be relevant on a fade to black out cut. Lamp dimming is a joke compared to a good dynamic iris (unless it's an LED lamp). I bet you'd turn that feature off, and then you'd be stuck with the native contrast of the UHD60, which might be about 1000:1-2000:1 at most (the UHD65 will be slightly better). The JVC will literally be 30-60x better than that

If i was a sports bar, I'd get the UHD60.

If I was a HT with light control and main interest is movies, JVC by far.

The UHD60 does have a better eshift for UHD BD, but the X500 is a much better projector - and yes, far better blacks. The UHD60 is not a projector for any serious home theater. I would definitely go with the X500.

I bought a used X500 about 8 months ago. It is my first projector and I could not be more thrilled. It throws a truly reference image. If it helps, I bought mine from a guy here on AVS. Paid $1650, shipped with a new lens and one with 700 hours on it.

I use it with a 105" wide scope screen. Plenty bright in my darkened room. I sit 10 feet away.

Go for the JVC!

Lost my username so I had to create a new one....but my question is who sells an official JVC RS-4910 lamp assembly. Rumor is do not trust most sellers on the net as they are most likely knock-offs. I decided it was time to replace it as I have about 1400hrs on my OEM bulb and it is looking a lot more dim than when new.

Stu

AV Science - look around the site for the phone number - you can count on them! (not a paid ad... )

I have just about 3100 hours on my RS-4910 original bulb and it still looks good, although I've never used the high mode.

Hey fellow 4910 owners. I have not posted here in some time. I had everything hooked-up, calibrated, and life was good. Recently, I believe I finally had the ONKYO TX-NR809 HDMI board failure. First the Main Out went completely so I moved my cable to the Sub Out. It worked for a few months but then started to give me issues until it too stopped working the other day. Silver-lining, I guess it is a good reason to upgrade my receiver.

So, after the HDMI Board failure, I need to find a way to get the Netflix picture from my ROKU to my projector, and sound to my speakers. I ran an HDMI cable from the ROKU to the projector Main In(1). I then found a digital Optic cable laying around and ran that from my ROKU to my receiver Game In. Everything worked on the first try. However, I noticed something interesting about what the JVC was recognizing as the input. It now says 4K2K 60. I also forced the ROKU to 4K output and it works. Has anyone experienced this? I thought that the new HDMI standard prevented this from happening? It did reset all of my user settings. Anyone have a good base to start with until I can get some time to run through the disk?

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So I'm in an un-unique position.

Someone I know is offloading their 3 year old projector. The JVC D-ILA RS49U.

I'm tempted to buy it over a brand new 4k budget projector, because this model (higher end) seems to come with so many features I wouldn't get in the budget model.

I have a 100" screen and sit a maximum of 12-14 feet away.

Should I get a brand new Honda (4k budget projector) or an older Porsche (JVC D-ILA RS49U)?

He wants $3,000 and there are 1000 hours of lamp life used up out of 4000.

Here on AVS, I bought a used X500 with a brand new bulb, and a spare bulb with 700 hours, for $1650 shipped. I think $3000 is WAY too much.

Thank you, I didn't know I could look for items for sales here. Thank you for the tip!

Are older 1080p projectors even worth looking at for someone new to the projector world? Some of the new 4k ones are less than $1800 and seem to have HDR10 and true 4k UHD with 8.3 million pixels.
like optomo uhd60.

I was looking at an older JVC because it has many 'advanced' features like lens memory, etc.

The RS49 (aka x500) is the bottom model of that generation. Th higher end ones would be the x700 or x900. ASAIK, the new JVC budget models (RS400/x550) have all the features of the x500, they are brighter and are HDCP 2.1 compatible, allowing you to watch 4k contents. The Contrast ratio has come down a bit, but to me it’s a worthwhile trade off. The used ones sell for less than $2000 here.