Need Help Deciding: Sony VPL-VW55ES vs JVC DLA-X35 (Same as RS46) vs Panasonic PT-AE8000U - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 12-30-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Let me start by giving some details of where these projectors are being used:

Dedicated Media Room - completely light controlled : 15.5 feet throw distance for a 130 - 137 inch diagonal 16:9 image (Screen is 15 feet from siting position - type is yet to be determined - temporarily using a 1.0 gain screen)
My usage breakdown would be:

90% 2D Movies (Mix of DVDs, HD DVDs, BD)
5% HD TV
5% Gaming & 3D Movies

So I've have had the chance to try out all 3 of these projectors at home and I'm even more confused as to which to go for. I realize there is a price difference between the three - but that plays a smaller part in the end decision for me. Don't get me wrong - I don't want to just throw money out the window for nothing but if I can see the value, I'm willing to pay for it. (example: price difference between JVC & Sony is negated by the fact there is a free bulb, 2 3D Glasses and extra year of warranty with Sony)

I initially test just the Sony and JVC exclusively as I was sure the decision would be between the two of them. The problem that arose with the two projectors is I love the interface and the ability to remotely control the focus/zoom/image position on the JVC but was surprised at the difference in brightness and how I kept want the picture to look as bright as the Sony. It was almost as if I was using the Sony as a bench mark - while trying all the settings on the JVC.

Lastly I pulled the Panasonic out of its boxes to test it and was surprised at how much brighter it was than both the other projectors but was sorely disappointed in how soft the picture looked in comparison. It also had a pretty good automated interface - not to the same level as JVC, but then again there is that price difference to explain that.

The movies I have been testing out with have been:

BD: Brave
BD: Dark Knight Rises
BD: Expendables 2
BD: Cars
BD: Avengers
Xbox 360 - regular interface, Amazon on Demand & Netflix

Please HELP! Any and all input is greatly appreciated - thank you in advance...
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post #2 of 30 Old 12-30-2013, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Some things I forgot to mention in the first post:

JVC issues that are hard to miss: Lens light leak is awful, especially in very dark scenes - I've been told that would get better with a better screen. Then there was something I noticed happening on only the JVC, when watching the Avengers. In the scene where they are discussing how they are going to keep the cube under control with some sort of fusion. They are all standing at the carrier's bridge; the vent in the background between Eric Banner and Tony Stark - has what looks like juddering - the lines don't remain separated? I'll see if I can take a picture of it and attach it to this thread.

I don't think I could live with the Panasonic after having seen the clarity - sharpness of the JVC and Sony - so I think that's out on that basis alone.
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post #3 of 30 Old 12-30-2013, 03:41 PM
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If you are planning a 16:9 screen, then you have answered your own question. Having power zoom, focus, etc... doesn't really come into play. Just set it once when you install it and then forget it. Go for the brightness! It's what you like!! Get the Sony smile.gif
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post #4 of 30 Old 12-30-2013, 03:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion006 View Post

Some things I forgot to mention in the first post:

JVC issues that are hard to miss: Lens light leak is awful, especially in very dark scenes - I've been told that would get better with a better screen. Then there was something I noticed happening on only the JVC, when watching the Avengers. In the scene where they are discussing how they are going to keep the cube under control with some sort of fusion. They are all standing at the carrier's bridge; the vent in the background between Eric Banner and Tony Stark - has what looks like juddering - the lines don't remain separated? I'll see if I can take a picture of it and attach it to this thread.

I don't think I could live with the Panasonic after having seen the clarity - sharpness of the JVC and Sony - so I think that's out on that basis alone.

The "juddering" that you saw is called aliasing. If you still have the JVC make sure the sharpness setting or any other extraneous video enhancement settings are at zero or off. Typically speaking that's the main reason you're going to see aliasing. The other way this issue could come up would be poor scaling but I'm assuming this was the blu-ray version of the movie as noted in your original post and scaling problems wouldn't be causing issues because BD content is 1080p.

Personally, I'd go with the JVC unless you want the extra brightness the Sony is capable of for brighter 3D. Either is a great choice but I think the JVC is better overall.
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post #5 of 30 Old 12-31-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroder View Post

If you are planning a 16:9 screen, then you have answered your own question. Having power zoom, focus, etc... doesn't really come into play. Just set it once when you install it and then forget it. Go for the brightness! It's what you like!! Get the Sony smile.gif

Yes, I like the brightness factor but I also really like the feature of being able to change image size if when I want to. I've already had to do that a couple of times when watching really old DVDs / home movies that just don't look good blown up that big - too much grain.
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post #6 of 30 Old 12-31-2013, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The "juddering" that you saw is called aliasing. If you still have the JVC make sure the sharpness setting or any other extraneous video enhancement settings are at zero or off. Typically speaking that's the main reason you're going to see aliasing. The other way this issue could come up would be poor scaling but I'm assuming this was the blu-ray version of the movie as noted in your original post and scaling problems wouldn't be causing issues because BD content is 1080p.

Personally, I'd go with the JVC unless you want the extra brightness the Sony is capable of for brighter 3D. Either is a great choice but I think the JVC is better overall.

Yes it was the blu-ray version of the movie...

So, why would you choose the JVC over the Sony? You say its better overall - but in what way?
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post #7 of 30 Old 12-31-2013, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Scorpion006 View Post

Yes, I like the brightness factor but I also really like the feature of being able to change image size if when I want to. I've already had to do that a couple of times when watching really old DVDs / home movies that just don't look good blown up that big - too much grain.

Hmmmm. I've had a few projectors over the last 10 years shooting onto a 16:9 screen. I don't think I've ever changed the zoom or focus on any of them after the initial setup. Most bluray players and the projector itself will let you change aspect ratio/image size on the remote. I would understand if you had a CIH setup at 2.35:1, but I just don't see why you would give up brightness (read-enjoying the best possible picture to your eyes) for the occasional adjustment you would have to do by hand for your home movies.
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post #8 of 30 Old 12-31-2013, 10:33 AM
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I have a CIH setup and after initial set up, never touch thee focus.I either use vertical stretch in pj remote or the anamorphic menu button for pj. Both programmed into my harmony remote. I am about to pull trigger on the Sony ES55 any day once I sell my JVC RSVP-40.

Ian B
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post #9 of 30 Old 12-31-2013, 10:52 AM
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FWIW I have an RS46 shooting onto an inexpensive scope screen and see no light leakage. Are you applying a lot of lens shift? The Sony is definitely the brighter of the two from the reviews online, but with 3D not being a priority the JVC should be sufficient. Even when watching scope material (zooming the projector to fill the screen) I have the iris closed down quite a bit. I have not had a chance to see the 55ES in person, but I can report the JVC does a surprisingly good job with DVD material. It's not going to make it look high definition, but it looks better than my previous projector did.

When playing the Avengers on the JVC did you happen to notice if it was reporting a 24p source rather than 60p? The reason I ask is my BD player would not see my previous projector as supporting 1080p 24 so I had to force the setting in the players menu. If the player isn't seeing the projector as 24p capable it may be introducing the artifact into the image by converting the source material to 60fps before sending it onto the projector. Personally I have not seen any aliasing artifacts on any Blu Rays we have watched. I'll make it a point to check out the Avengers.

I don't think you can go wrong with either the Sony or the JVC. I ended up with the JVC for a variety of reasons. I have a scope screen, which the lens memory of the JVC handles wonderfully. I have no interest in 3D which is something the JVC doesn't handle as well as its competitors (but seems to be adequate the owners thread). And I wanted the best black levels in this price range.

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post #10 of 30 Old 01-02-2014, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroder View Post

Hmmmm. I've had a few projectors over the last 10 years shooting onto a 16:9 screen. I don't think I've ever changed the zoom or focus on any of them after the initial setup. Most bluray players and the projector itself will let you change aspect ratio/image size on the remote. I would understand if you had a CIH setup at 2.35:1, but I just don't see why you would give up brightness (read-enjoying the best possible picture to your eyes) for the occasional adjustment you would have to do by hand for your home movies.

Thanks for you response and input....
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post #11 of 30 Old 01-02-2014, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Ian B View Post

I have a CIH setup and after initial set up, never touch thee focus.I either use vertical stretch in pj remote or the anamorphic menu button for pj. Both programmed into my harmony remote. I am about to pull trigger on the Sony ES55 any day once I sell my JVC RSVP-40.

Ian B

Well, apparently - we live close by (Austin / Cedar Park) - if you want to come see the 55ES in action send me a PM
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post #12 of 30 Old 01-02-2014, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

FWIW I have an RS46 shooting onto an inexpensive scope screen and see no light leakage. Are you applying a lot of lens shift? The Sony is definitely the brighter of the two from the reviews online, but with 3D not being a priority the JVC should be sufficient. Even when watching scope material (zooming the projector to fill the screen) I have the iris closed down quite a bit. I have not had a chance to see the 55ES in person, but I can report the JVC does a surprisingly good job with DVD material. It's not going to make it look high definition, but it looks better than my previous projector did.

When playing the Avengers on the JVC did you happen to notice if it was reporting a 24p source rather than 60p? The reason I ask is my BD player would not see my previous projector as supporting 1080p 24 so I had to force the setting in the players menu. If the player isn't seeing the projector as 24p capable it may be introducing the artifact into the image by converting the source material to 60fps before sending it onto the projector. Personally I have not seen any aliasing artifacts on any Blu Rays we have watched. I'll make it a point to check out the Avengers.

I don't think you can go wrong with either the Sony or the JVC. I ended up with the JVC for a variety of reasons. I have a scope screen, which the lens memory of the JVC handles wonderfully. I have no interest in 3D which is something the JVC doesn't handle as well as its competitors (but seems to be adequate the owners thread). And I wanted the best black levels in this price range.

I'm also projecting onto a temporary cheap screen ($200 - Bes Buy projecta brand) but I was seeing light leaking even before - without the screen; projecting onto the wall. In complete darkness, I can see the 16:9 box and then a white hue that goes all the way around and a very apparent semi circle at the top. My projector is sitting dead center of the screen height and width wise (so no lens shift at all. I'm watching only 2D material so far, haven't purchased a 3D Blu-ray player yet.

I did check in to the source and it was playing 24p, but even once I switched it to 60p the issue I spoke about earlier is still visible on screen. It only shows up on the JVC, not the Sony or the Panasonic.
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post #13 of 30 Old 01-02-2014, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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One other question I had - which may seem to have an obvious answer but I want to be sure... Running the lamp is high power or normal power instead of low/eco will reduce the number of hours for the bulb, correct?
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post #14 of 30 Old 01-02-2014, 10:32 AM
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Arent jvc bulbs double the cost? I got almost 20k hrs on my vw40... Im planning on getting the 55 solely as I never reallly had a problem with my vw40 I used as my tv the past 6 years
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Arent jvc bulbs double the cost? I got almost 20k hrs on my vw40... Im planning on getting the 55 solely as I never reallly had a problem with my vw40 I used as my tv the past 6 years

Yeah, MSRP-$499 Yuck! I found this out AFTER my JVC was delivered...but, I use it maybe 10 hours a week.
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post #16 of 30 Old 01-02-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Scorpion006 View Post

Yes it was the blu-ray version of the movie...

So, why would you choose the JVC over the Sony? You say its better overall - but in what way?

The Sony really is awesome! But so is the JVC, especially the new RS49XX as it has an iris (a couple, actually). I came from several single chip DLPs to the JVC with all its enhancements, and its sharper than even the best of them, plus its black level makes me laugh when I think back to how grey their blacks were. Have you ever watched Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows I & II and not once been distracted by the foggyness in the darkest scenes? I hadn't until I bought the JVC, and I own a Panasonic VT30 plasma and the iris on the JVC closes down so far that its blacks are subjectively darker than plasma (with zero ambient light and zero refections). I was all set to buy a used Sony HW50 until the newest JVC came out with new LCOS panels, an iris, better brightness, e-shift3, less light leakage, etc. Its really tough to beat for the money, check prices on an RS49 before buying the RS46, its been out a long time in electronics life.
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post #17 of 30 Old 01-02-2014, 08:08 PM
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Got to visit with Scorpion tonight and compare the 2 out of 3 pjs. We did not turn on the Panny as it is going back. Now, the Sony is a brightness beast in normal lamp and looked awesome with Finding Nemo and Avatar. The blacks were deeper on the JVC but the difference was not night and day. I think the JVC already has higher contrast ratio. Scorpion did not have a 3d blu ray player to test the difference but I can assume that based on Sony's brightness, it will look good or great. The JVC in high lamp was bright enough also for 3d. I did see the light leakage that Scorpion was talking about but it was not a disturbance to me. Both pjs were relatively quiet in normal mode and in high lamp mode a little louder but once you have a movie going, you won't hear it for the most part.

Thanks Scorpion for your time and my decision is made. Once I sell my RS20, getting the Sony 55ES.

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post #18 of 30 Old 01-06-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion006 View Post

I'm also projecting onto a temporary cheap screen ($200 - Bes Buy projecta brand) but I was seeing light leaking even before - without the screen; projecting onto the wall. In complete darkness, I can see the 16:9 box and then a white hue that goes all the way around and a very apparent semi circle at the top. My projector is sitting dead center of the screen height and width wise (so no lens shift at all. I'm watching only 2D material so far, haven't purchased a 3D Blu-ray player yet.

I did check in to the source and it was playing 24p, but even once I switched it to 60p the issue I spoke about earlier is still visible on screen. It only shows up on the JVC, not the Sony or the Panasonic.

We have no light leakage on 16:9 content in a completely black room. I do use a small amount of lens shift though, so perhaps that is contributing to the differences. Do you have a time mark for the problematic scene in the Avengers? I put it in the other day and watched the scene where Stark meets Banner, the finger pointing session (which leads to the Hulk incident) and the conference room scene after Coulson's "demise". I looked everywhere in those scenes but could find no visual aliasing or artifacts. Could be I simply missed it though.

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post #19 of 30 Old 01-09-2014, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Ian B View Post

Got to visit with Scorpion tonight and compare the 2 out of 3 pjs. We did not turn on the Panny as it is going back. Now, the Sony is a brightness beast in normal lamp and looked awesome with Finding Nemo and Avatar. The blacks were deeper on the JVC but the difference was not night and day. I think the JVC already has higher contrast ratio. Scorpion did not have a 3d blu ray player to test the difference but I can assume that based on Sony's brightness, it will look good or great. The JVC in high lamp was bright enough also for 3d. I did see the light leakage that Scorpion was talking about but it was not a disturbance to me. Both pjs were relatively quiet in normal mode and in high lamp mode a little louder but once you have a movie going, you won't hear it for the most part.

Thanks Scorpion for your time and my decision is made. Once I sell my RS20, getting the Sony 55ES.

Ian B

Hey Ian,

Tell you something crazy - I just got to test the JVC & Sony on a DNP Screen (similar to a Black Diamond) - the Sony almost seemed too bright for a high gain screen like that so you may want to take that into consideration, cause I don't remember what gain your screen was. The JVC looked awesome on that screen cause it looked as bright as the Sony did on previous screen, which was plenty bright, but the blacks were way deeper. So my feelings towards the JVC got much stronger with the idea of having a high quality screen. Now question is what screen should I get - lol!
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post #20 of 30 Old 01-09-2014, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

We have no light leakage on 16:9 content in a completely black room. I do use a small amount of lens shift though, so perhaps that is contributing to the differences. Do you have a time mark for the problematic scene in the Avengers? I put it in the other day and watched the scene where Stark meets Banner, the finger pointing session (which leads to the Hulk incident) and the conference room scene after Coulson's "demise". I looked everywhere in those scenes but could find no visual aliasing or artifacts. Could be I simply missed it though.

I will have to go back and look at what the time stamp was for the problem but I have already figured out what the issue is. If the "Clear Motion Drive 120 Hz" is enabled at any level (low, high) - I forgot what it's called in the menu (under the 2nd menu tab) that is when the issue is visible.

It is chapter 10 on the blu-ray - I know that for sure. I'll describe the scene. They are bringing Loki in and throwing him into lock-up. Long convo between Fury and Loki - while Black Widow / Captain America / Thor / Banner listeni in as they sit at the bridge, then they talk about what Loki's plan is - Stark enters with Agent Colson. Banner and Stark talk science - standing in front of the "grey/silver blinds" - Fury enters and mentions something about Loki turning his 2 best men into flying monkeys - Stark rolls his eyes at Captain America's comment and they go to the lab. As they move towards the lab - you see the effect happen right between them. (I realize how disturbing it is, that I have this whole scene memorized but I have probably seen it over 40 times trying to see differences in brightness - contrast.)

Let me know if you can find it and can replicate the issue - I want to make sure its not just my unit, Thanks!
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post #21 of 30 Old 01-09-2014, 02:41 PM
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Hey Ian,

Tell you something crazy - I just got to test the JVC & Sony on a DNP Screen (similar to a Black Diamond) - the Sony almost seemed too bright for a high gain screen like that so you may want to take that into consideration, cause I don't remember what gain your screen was. The JVC looked awesome on that screen cause it looked as bright as the Sony did on previous screen, which was plenty bright, but the blacks were way deeper. So my feelings towards the JVC got much stronger with the idea of having a high quality screen. Now question is what screen should I get - lol!

Interesting and good being able to test on a screen you may be buying. The gain on the 106" I picked up at BB is about 1.0. Since this screen is whiter in color than my scope one, now I am back to using low lamp and all shows and movie look bright enough. When I switch to the high lamp, it is too blinding but great with 3d. Decisions, decisions but still will get the Sony and close the Iris on low lamp if too bright.

May need to swing buy and see that screen next time you do more testing. Just text me and I can come over if not in middle of something.

Ian B
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post #22 of 30 Old 01-10-2014, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Scorpion006 View Post

I will have to go back and look at what the time stamp was for the problem but I have already figured out what the issue is. If the "Clear Motion Drive 120 Hz" is enabled at any level (low, high) - I forgot what it's called in the menu (under the 2nd menu tab) that is when the issue is visible.

It is chapter 10 on the blu-ray - I know that for sure. I'll describe the scene. They are bringing Loki in and throwing him into lock-up. Long convo between Fury and Loki - while Black Widow / Captain America / Thor / Banner listeni in as they sit at the bridge, then they talk about what Loki's plan is - Stark enters with Agent Colson. Banner and Stark talk science - standing in front of the "grey/silver blinds" - Fury enters and mentions something about Loki turning his 2 best men into flying monkeys - Stark rolls his eyes at Captain America's comment and they go to the lab. As they move towards the lab - you see the effect happen right between them. (I realize how disturbing it is, that I have this whole scene memorized but I have probably seen it over 40 times trying to see differences in brightness - contrast.)

Let me know if you can find it and can replicate the issue - I want to make sure its not just my unit, Thanks!

I don't use the CMD feature, which may be why I have never seen it (can't stand the weird home video look it imparts to me). That description helps a bunch. When I fire up the projector this weekend I will definitely check it out. The odd thing is we are re-watching the Harry Potter movies and in the first movie the stairs as he descends into the final chamber with the mirror and Quirrell have always aliased on my previous projectors, the RS46 shows them properly. So if anything the RS46 is cleaning things up in my setup.

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post #23 of 30 Old 01-14-2014, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Any more people have any informative suggestions - I'd really like to make a decision soon.
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post #24 of 30 Old 01-14-2014, 04:44 PM
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Sonys aren't immune to light leak, either. My Sony 30ES and my now 50ES both have a small amount of leak in the top left/top right section, only noticeable on pitch black. Don't get the Panasonic. The Sony has better input lag and 3D than the JVC. Personally, I'd get the 55ES. All round best performer.
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post #25 of 30 Old 01-15-2014, 07:50 AM
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It all boils down to where your priorities are. If you don't need lens memory, enjoy 3D and aren't distracted by a dynamic iris than the Sony is probably the pick. I have zero interest in 3D, I'm bothered by the dynamic iris's I have seen (Epson and Panasonic), and love the lens memory for scope material. I picked the JVC and it has been outstanding for the way I use it. I don't think you could go wrong with either the 55ES or the RS46.

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post #26 of 30 Old 01-15-2014, 08:44 AM
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Any more people have any informative suggestions - I'd really like to make a decision soon.

Sent you a PM. smile.gif
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post #27 of 30 Old 03-15-2014, 04:21 AM
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I have a CIH setup and after initial set up, never touch thee focus.I either use vertical stretch in pj remote or the anamorphic menu button for pj. Both programmed into my harmony remote. I am about to pull trigger on the Sony ES55 any day once I sell my JVC RSVP-40.

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are you doing CIH without lens memory and motorized lens
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post #28 of 30 Old 03-16-2014, 09:20 PM
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are you doing CIH without lens memory and motorized lens

I was wondering the same thing, how can you do it with manual lens and without lens memory?
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post #29 of 30 Old 03-16-2014, 09:21 PM
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Why didn't you trial the epson 5030?
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post #30 of 30 Old 03-16-2014, 09:26 PM
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I was wondering the same thing, how can you do it with manual lens and without lens memory?

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Why didn't you trial the epson 5030?

Correct, never move lens out of the way.

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