Epson 4K (enhancement) e-shift laser projector....!!!!!! - Page 155 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4621 of 4897 Old 08-03-2017, 06:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AmigoHD View Post
Which Patterns/Suite did you guys use to calibrate for REC2020?

Use R. Masciola's HDR patterns. Best $30 spent towards your HDR experience!

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Originally Posted by Spygg View Post
Have you found your refined LS10000 HarperVision settings yet?

I think I've found the pictures of the GUI. Try these as a baseline, tweak to your environment and liking and let me know if this was it.



Gamma: -32,-31,-31,-30,-29,-20,0,23,32

Video Range "Auto" defaults to Limited.

Color Space Auto should default to BT2020.
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post #4622 of 4897 Old 08-04-2017, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Use R. Masciola's HDR patterns. Best $30 spent towards your HDR experience!
I am not interested in HDR. Just the wider color gamut. Do I still need his patterns or can we just use regular patterns for BT.2020 gamut calibration?
I used bandyka's settings for Digital Cinema mode on my LS10000. But colors are way off with it I guess. At least when I compare them to an UHD TV in it's wider color gamut mode. So I just want to calibrate the colors. Is BT.2020 different than REC709? If so, are there test patterns for REC2020?
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post #4623 of 4897 Old 08-04-2017, 11:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoHD View Post
I am not interested in HDR. Just the wider color gamut. Do I still need his patterns or can we just use regular patterns for BT.2020 gamut calibration?

I used bandyka's settings for Digital Cinema mode on my LS10000. But colors are way off with it I guess. At least when I compare them to an UHD TV in it's wider color gamut mode. So I just want to calibrate the colors. Is BT.2020 different than REC709? If so, are there test patterns for REC2020?

His patterns have the bt2020 gamut along with the HDR. If you have an HDFury device like Linker or Integral then you can strip the HDR and just maintain SDR BT2020 for your testing.

BT2020 (and DCI-P3) are wider color gamuts than rec709, so therefore can display more saturated and true to real life colors.
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post #4624 of 4897 Old 08-04-2017, 01:11 PM
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Thank you, Dave Harper. I ordered R. Masciola's UHD/HDR patterns and they are downloading right now.
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post #4625 of 4897 Old 08-04-2017, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
His patterns have the bt2020 gamut along with the HDR. If you have an HDFury device like Linker or Integral then you can strip the HDR and just maintain SDR BT2020 for your testing.

BT2020 (and DCI-P3) are wider color gamuts than rec709, so therefore can display more saturated and true to real life colors.
Dave, doesn't this affect the color volume that is produced by stripping the HDR signal?

The original master is assuming that those extended colors will also be lit with extended luminance, this produces a unique color in the entire color volume. In other words, reproduced color is equal to Color space value x Luminance value to produce unique color.

If you strip the HDR and feed the projector SDR, won't the color be mismatched with the color the original master intended.

Then again if the projector can't properly reproduce the luminance value due to physical limitations of the light engine then I guess you aren't hitting the intended original master color anyway.
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post #4626 of 4897 Old 08-04-2017, 04:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
Dave, doesn't this affect the color volume that is produced by stripping the HDR signal?



The original master is assuming that those extended colors will also be lit with extended luminance, this produces a unique color in the entire color volume. In other words, reproduced color is equal to Color space value x Luminance value to produce unique color.



If you strip the HDR and feed the projector SDR, won't the color be mismatched with the color the original master intended.



Then again if the projector can't properly reproduce the luminance value due to physical limitations of the light engine then I guess you aren't hitting the intended original master color anyway.

When you strip it using the HDFury then it causes the source device to remap the HDR bt2020 to SDR bt2020, so this should be accounted for if done properly.

I think you're right with your last paragraph too. I don't think we see what they do on a master grading monitor on any consumer projector anyway at this stage of HE game, so I think it's relatively moot anyway.


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Originally Posted by AmigoHD View Post
Thank you, Dave Harper. I ordered R. Masciola's UHD/HDR patterns and they are downloading right now.

I see they just released preorder info for their UHD 4K Bluray version of his test patterns too. I just bought a copy!
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post #4627 of 4897 Old 08-05-2017, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
His patterns have the bt2020 gamut along with the HDR. If you have an HDFury device like Linker or Integral then you can strip the HDR and just maintain SDR BT2020 for your testing.

BT2020 (and DCI-P3) are wider color gamuts than rec709, so therefore can display more saturated and true to real life colors.
Dear Dave,
I now have the test pattern from R. Masciola. There are P3 in BT2020 Patterns. I guess I need these to calibrate for UHD blu-ray, right?
On more question: Those patterns are in 50% amplitute and 100% saturation. How do I tell HCFR that these patterns are not 100%/100%?

Last edited by AmigoHD; 08-05-2017 at 02:36 AM.
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post #4628 of 4897 Old 08-06-2017, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Here is the popular one, Wide Color Gamut mode.:

[IMG][/IMG]

The LS can do a pretty awesome 103% of DCI but it needs a full manual calibration.
This one can be tricky if you are new to the LS it took me a few rounds to get it tracking reasonably well and I may have done it wrong anyway but it seems to be correct to eye witnesses and compared to othe PJ with native BT2020 mode. HCFR has the tools you need for this exercise. Below are my settings (this I hope again is the right photo but from memeroy it should be), again this should be only taken as a baseline as it will vary unit by unit. Obviously you need to engage the filter on the PJ which you do by turning on Digital Cinema mode, again for this mode I used mid laser and -5 iris position this works well but for some darker movies high laser mode is recommended, luckily due to the laser engine, changing light mode does not seem to affect color temperature or greyscale much.
Skin tone is a little tricky and needs to be changed, I am pretty sure I adjusted the slider for WCG all the way to the left to achieve 6500K.
Hi Bandyka
I am trying to calibrate my LS10k to BT2020. I used you WCG settings as baseline starting point. But could you please tell me what patterns you used to calibrate?
I tried with R.Masciolas UHD test patterns for BT2020 and P3 Points within BT2020. These are 50% amplitude and 100% saturation patterns. If I use them together with HCFR my results are way off. At least HCFR is telling me this. I need some little help to understand which patterns and which settings I need to use with HCFR to get the best results.
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post #4629 of 4897 Old 08-06-2017, 09:13 PM
 
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R. Masciola's Patterns have an HCFR workflow, just go through that.
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post #4630 of 4897 Old 08-11-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by AmigoHD View Post
Thank you, Dave Harper. I ordered R. Masciola's UHD/HDR patterns and they are downloading right now.
AmigoHD,

Is this the one you ordered?

RM UHD|HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite/Digital File Download

Will this work for UHD BD?

/VJ
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post #4631 of 4897 Old 08-11-2017, 08:29 AM
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Dave Harper,

I have been following your posts for a while, I am amazed of your great knowledge on this subject and I hope you can help me.

I just got my hands on the Epson Home Cinema 4000, everything I see is very dark on it - 3D especially.

Even the Bright Cinema is dark to my eyes for normal viewing, I am comparing this to the Sony 45es, Sony makes it look so bright.

What am I missing? I got the Samsung K8500 for 4K testing and I got SDR 709 signal only ( unfortunately no BT2020 I thought Sammy had fixed the issue I upgraded to latest firmware), is there firmware to be upgraded on the Epson too?

I am wondering if I got a lemon or everything has to be calibrated to get this right?

/VJ
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post #4632 of 4897 Old 08-11-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by joy192k View Post
AmigoHD,

Is this the one you ordered?

RM UHD|HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite/Digital File Download

Will this work for UHD BD?

/VJ
Yes, that's what I bought and downloaded. There are a lot of BT.2020/HDR Patterns for UHD BD. But I have yet to learn / find out how I use them together with HCFR and the LS10k for calibration.
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post #4633 of 4897 Old 08-11-2017, 09:51 AM
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Saw my first example of the LS1000s laser dimming being tripped up the other day. I was watching Concussion (Will Smith) and it happened with the text that comes on just before the end credits. It pumped once or twice and then settled. I tried it on the other dimming modes and it didn't do it, only in fast mode IIRC.

So far that's the only time I've seen it.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #4634 of 4897 Old 08-12-2017, 04:55 AM
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I got an LS10000 from AVScience B-Stock, and lamp operation hours say "0". Is that normal or did Epson ship me a new projector by mistake? Mike seems to think the latter. There is not a blemish anywhere on the unit, it truly looks pristine and brand new condition. Manufacturer packing box it came with says "epson refurbished product" on the outside.
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post #4635 of 4897 Old 08-12-2017, 05:20 AM
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I think it depends on what was done to the machine on whether or not the counter gets reset. I thought it was Mike that posted that info somewhere here and that was where I read it.

A friend of mine got a refurb LS10000 here in the UK with just 6 months warranty, but that also had zero hours on it, yet it was clearly advertised as a refurb.

The fact it says it's a refurb on the box makes me think it probably is, but who knows what they put inside.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #4636 of 4897 Old 08-12-2017, 05:38 AM
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Mine had zero hours and seems blemish free. Perhaps it was something major like the laser engine so they reset the counter. Just speculating. In any case, I have family over this weekend and will finally get around to watching a whole movie on it.

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post #4637 of 4897 Old 08-12-2017, 12:45 PM
 
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Mine had zero hours and seems blemish free. Perhaps it was something major like the laser engine so they reset the counter. Just speculating. In any case, I have family over this weekend and will finally get around to watching a whole movie on it.

Or maybe it was my old one since they told me the whole optical block was bad!
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post #4638 of 4897 Old 08-13-2017, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
Saw my first example of the LS1000s laser dimming being tripped up the other day. I was watching Concussion (Will Smith) and it happened with the text that comes on just before the end credits. It pumped once or twice and then settled. I tried it on the other dimming modes and it didn't do it, only in fast mode IIRC.

So far that's the only time I've seen it.
I recently switched over to normal dimming mode because I had the feeling that fast would mess with low APL scenes. Also Kris Deering said in his review he preferred normal to fast.
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post #4639 of 4897 Old 08-13-2017, 07:59 AM
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I recently switched over to normal dimming mode because I had the feeling that fast would mess with low APL scenes. Also Kris Deering said in his review he preferred normal to fast.
I might do some comparisons between the two modes and see if there are any visible differences elsewhere, but after around 100 movies and only seeing once instance, I think that's pretty good. I've a feeling I may have seen it slowly dim down in slow mode when I previously tried it, and if it does that too often I'll put it back to fast, but will have to see.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #4640 of 4897 Old 08-13-2017, 07:09 PM
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Or maybe it was my old one since they told me the whole optical block was bad!
lol

I watched my first whole movie with family that was visiting from out of town. It was the bluray version of Passengers. The projector really impressed me with the smooth, unfatiguing picture. I thought the scenes at the bar were a little darker than I expected from pictures I'd seen of the bar area but can't really say for sure. I also realized I had the projector in ECO mode and I think it was fine. Projector very quiet in this mode. My first whole movie with the Datasat RS20 as well and wow that is an amazing processor, and I haven't even run Dirac yet!
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post #4641 of 4897 Old 08-14-2017, 04:35 AM
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Passengers is a fantastic transfer - no image noise or visible grain as such, so it looks almost pristine.

I sit 2 screen heights back from a 2.40:1 screen with my eyes 90 inches from the screen, and it is one of the best transfers that I have seen on the LS10000

I never saw it at the cinema, only on the BD, and my pj is not set to 14fL - it's in eco mode and the iris is at around 7 IIRC. I can't say that I thought the bar scene looked dark, but then again I don't have reference. Other than the fL, the pj is calibrated (D65 BT1886 gamma, RC709 and 2020)

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #4642 of 4897 Old 08-14-2017, 02:21 PM
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I don't really have a reference either re: the bar scene. I looked again at some pictures in reviews of the movie and now that I see the pictures again the image in the pictures wasn't "bright". It was somewhat subdued and the reds were deep rather than bright. Without any reference to what it's supposed to look like I guess it is hard to say that something is off. Beautiful images in that movie for sure. And great sound. And Jennifer Lawrence looked great. lol, thumbs up.

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post #4643 of 4897 Old 08-15-2017, 07:56 AM
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BT.2020/P3 Primaries calibration (SDR BT.2020)

RGB Balance:


CIE Diagram:


Yet green and cyan are hard to fix (so I use Bandyka's settings atm). But the picture seems good to my eyes and saturations are more on spot than with Bandyka's settings.
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post #4644 of 4897 Old 08-15-2017, 09:24 AM
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Read through many pages on this post... I just got a LS10500 and an Oppo 203. It seems clear that for the best UHD/HDR results I should have gone with the Panny UB900. But the deed is done. So my question is: is anyone getting 'better than good' results with the Oppo 203 on this projector (understanding that the Panny is better)? Will see if I can return the Oppo in the meantime.
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post #4645 of 4897 Old 08-15-2017, 09:40 AM
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I don't have any issues with the Oppo. There is still a marginal black crush if you use HDR to SDR conversion. But this will get fixed in a future firmware update, I am sure of. OPPO really does a good job fixing such bugs.
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post #4646 of 4897 Old 08-15-2017, 02:53 PM
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I don't have any issues with the Oppo. There is still a marginal black crush if you use HDR to SDR conversion. But this will get fixed in a future firmware update, I am sure of. OPPO really does a good job fixing such bugs.
That's reassuring. Thanks. I am happy with the Oppo otherwise. And the 1080P performance with the LS10500... wow! A huge improvement from the 5030UB it replaces.
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post #4647 of 4897 Old 08-23-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Metasynman View Post
Read through many pages on this post... I just got a LS10500 and an Oppo 203. It seems clear that for the best UHD/HDR results I should have gone with the Panny UB900. But the deed is done. So my question is: is anyone getting 'better than good' results with the Oppo 203 on this projector (understanding that the Panny is better)? Will see if I can return the Oppo in the meantime.
Return the Oppo if you can (I have). the Panny is the better player especially when it comes to SDR WCG which is most important with this PJ, you don't want to be sacrificing performance and live with and inferior picture just because a player cannot deliver if you don't have to. Oppo have been fixing bugs for many months now and will continue to do so, Panny was spot on from day one and still is that is the cold hard truth.

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post #4648 of 4897 Old 08-24-2017, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Return the Oppo if you can (I have). the Panny is the better player especially when it comes to SDR WCG which is most important with this PJ, you don't want to be sacrificing performance and live with and inferior picture just because a player cannot deliver if you don't have to. Oppo have been fixing bugs for many months now and will continue to do so, Panny was spot on from day one and still is that is the cold hard truth.
Am I missing something? I have been using the projector setting you posted a while back (except I dialed brightness down to -3) and setting the Oppo to HDR "forced" and have been very pleased with the picture. I just watched Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 the other night and colors were amazing, highlights bright and shadow detail at least good to very good...
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post #4649 of 4897 Old 08-27-2017, 01:50 AM
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Not missing anything if you are happy that's all that matters, it's just that the Panny over time proved to be the better player that's all.

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post #4650 of 4897 Old 08-27-2017, 06:13 AM
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Not missing anything if you are happy that's all that matters, it's just that the Panny over time proved to be the better player that's all.
Now I am a bit curious.... Does anyone else use these settings (i.e. forced HDR)?
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