Epson 4K (enhancement) e-shift laser projector....!!!!!! - Page 163 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4861 of 4899 Old 11-21-2018, 04:56 AM
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I'm looking at possibly getting a used LS10000 and one thing that concerns me is the brightness. I'm upgrading from an Epson TW9200 (the EU version of the 6030) and as there's less lumen output (1500lms vs 2400lms). Is this something I should worry about? My room is light controlled - no ambient light and blacked out background on a Draper React screen.
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post #4862 of 4899 Old 11-21-2018, 05:15 AM
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With my calibrated LS1000 on a 120" diag 16:9 screen with AT material (around 0.8 gain), I get 9fL, 12fL and 18fL in eco, mid and high laser, with the manual iris at -7, With the DCI filter in place I run the manual iris wide open for the same FL.

At my throw using an (HE) anamorphic lens, I get a smidge less - approx 1 Lux less.

For me, I'm happy with either eco or mid laser, but some people may like it brighter. 14fL is the DCI spec plus or minus 2fL IIRC.
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post #4863 of 4899 Old 11-21-2018, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
With my calibrated LS1000 on a 120" diag 16:9 screen with AT material (around 0.8 gain), I get 9fL, 12fL and 18fL in eco, mid and high laser, with the manual iris at -7, With the DCI filter in place I run the manual iris wide open for the same FL.

At my throw using an (HE) anamorphic lens, I get a smidge less - approx 1 Lux less.

For me, I'm happy with either eco or mid laser, but some people may like it brighter. 14fL is the DCI spec plus or minus 2fL IIRC.
Gary, is there much difference in fan noise running at the higher outputs?
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post #4864 of 4899 Old 11-21-2018, 07:49 AM
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Gary, is there much difference in fan noise running at the higher outputs?
Eco and medium are pretty quiet, but high laser is noticeably a bit louder. You usually need it in high laser for 3D (it selects it automatically), but once a movie is running I never notice it. I would think some people may find high a bit too loud though, but it's no different to high lamp in other projectors in that respect. At least you have a medium option which most projectors don't have.

If the screen is unity gain or higher then the image will be brighter of course - add around 20% to my numbers for that screen size if that's the case.

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post #4865 of 4899 Old 12-16-2018, 09:49 PM
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A quick note to share on my amazing experience with Epson service. I purchased my LS10000 in the fall of 2015, and after more than 5000 hours of use, this week it started showing an issue where it would suddenly shut down, blast the fan and blink three lights. It happened rarely, and power-cycling the projector brought it back up. On Friday it happened again, so I decided to call Epson to see if they would be able to send someone to take a look and service it.

They asked a couple of questions (color of the blinking lights), and asked for my serial number, then said my unit was still under warranty and they could send a replacement. This was around 2PM PST on Friday. The replacement unit arrived at my door Saturday morning at 10am. While technically a "referb" unit, it appears to be brand new and reports 0 hours of use. I dropped the broken unit off at FedEx with the pre-paid shipper label this afternoon.

I really hope Epson continues to make more laser-based home theater projectors, but until they do, I continue to be one extremely happy LS10000 customer.
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post #4866 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 05:55 AM
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Interesting story:

When I went to see the JVC N5 last month, one of the other guys there for the demo had an LS10000 but hadn't yet installed it as his room wasn't finished or ready for it. With the new 4K JVCs being announced, he decided he wanted one so that was his reason for being at the demo, and had already agreed with the dealer doing the demos to trade in his LS for the N5 even though he hadn't yet even got the LS out of its box. He was there with a close friend who also has a home cinema and currently runs an Epson 9300. The guy with the boxed LS had an X30.

We directly compared the new entry level 4K Sony and a 9300 with the N5 in split screen. All were calibrated to D65 so they looked pretty much identical for greyscale and gamut. Quite often it's difficult to tell them apart when they're like that in a lot of scenes, so it always makes for an interesting demo there.

The guys seemed enthusiastic about the N5 and we were all chatting about various things. They knew me from a UK forum and knew I had an LS, and later asked if they could see my set up after we'd finished the N5 demo - that was a bit of surprises but I agreed so it was all back to my place after the N5 demo. I showed them various things on both BD and UHD and they seemed to enjoy it, especially full fade the black - that seems to get a lot of reaction from people who have never had that experience before.

Anyway, I've just found out the guy has cancelled his N5 and is keeping his LS which has now been installed and calibrated by the guy who runs the demos. Amongst other things it seems he felt the "LS trumped the N5 for clarity and detail" and "The demo at yours which put a few things in perspective, spending x more amount doesn't necessarily equate to a perceivable difference!! ". Those are quotes from the guy's PM so are his opinions not mine. He has a Panasonic 820 and a HDFury Vertex so can make use of WCG and HDR.

I didn't say anything at the time of the N5 demo, but I didn't think the N5 was that impressive or did anything better than the LS except for the tone mapping (and lacks FFTB), but with the likes of the 820/420 that seems to have equalled things out a bit there. I had also checked out a scene which seemed to have a some film grain going on with the N5 but not on the LS, even at full laser, so it seems the JVCs still add image noise to everything, but I need to double check that to be sure, though I'm 90% sure that's the case. I think Ekki had seen it on a paused grey field when he did some preliminary testing with a new 4K JVC so I think that confirms it.

I've had a few people round for demos at my place because it's not easy for people to see the LSs at dealers, so I get the occasional message asking if a demo is possible, and it's not unusual for them to buy an LS on the back of it. The Epson laser must be doing something right then.

I really hope Epson have a 4K laser in the works and haven't dropped it entirely as so far I think that might be the only thing that will entice me to upgrdae, as nothing else I've seen so far has done that.
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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #4867 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 07:41 AM
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Interesting post Gary, thanks. Sounds like even the older LS is still right up there in PQ.

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post #4868 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
Interesting story:

When I went to see the JVC N5 last month, one of the other guys there for the demo had an LS10000 but hadn't yet installed it as his room wasn't finished or ready for it. With the new 4K JVCs being announced, he decided he wanted one so that was his reason for being at the demo, and had already agreed with the dealer doing the demos to trade in his LS for the N5 even though he hadn't yet even got the LS out of its box. He was there with a close friend who also has a home cinema and currently runs an Epson 9300. The guy with the boxed LS had an X30.

We directly compared the new entry level 4K Sony and a 9300 with the N5 in split screen. All were calibrated to D65 so they looked pretty much identical for greyscale and gamut. Quite often it's difficult to tell them apart when they're like that in a lot of scenes, so it always makes for an interesting demo there.

The guys seemed enthusiastic about the N5 and we were all chatting about various things. They knew me from a UK forum and knew I had an LS, and later asked if they could see my set up after we'd finished the N5 demo - that was a bit of surprises but I agreed so it was all back to my place after the N5 demo. I showed them various things on both BD and UHD and they seemed to enjoy it, especially full fade the black - that seems to get a lot of reaction from people who have never had that experience before.

Anyway, I've just found out the guy has cancelled his N5 and is keeping his LS which has now been installed and calibrated by the guy who runs the demos. Amongst other things it seems he felt the "LS trumped the N5 for clarity and detail" and "The demo at yours which put a few things in perspective, spending x more amount doesn't necessarily equate to a perceivable difference!! ". Those are quotes from the guy's PM so are his opinions not mine. He has a Panasonic 820 and a HDFury Vertex so can make use of WCG and HDR.

I didn't say anything at the time of the N5 demo, but I didn't think the N5 was that impressive or did anything better than the LS except for the tone mapping (and lacks FFTB), but with the likes of the 820/420 that seems to have equalled things out a bit there. I had also checked out a scene which seemed to have a some film grain going on with the N5 but not on the LS, even at full laser, so it seems the JVCs still add image noise to everything, but I need to double check that to be sure, though I'm 90% sure that's the case. I think Ekki had seen it on a paused grey field when he did some preliminary testing with a new 4K JVC so I think that confirms it.

I've had a few people round for demos at my place because it's not easy for people to see the LSs at dealers, so I get the occasional message asking if a demo is possible, and it's not unusual for them to buy an LS on the back of it. The Epson laser must be doing something right then.

I really hope Epson have a 4K laser in the works and haven't dropped it entirely as so far I think that might be the only thing that will entice me to upgrdae, as nothing else I've seen so far has done that.
Gary,

I have a Vertex that I use for down-scaling 4K to 1080P. If I could find a L10000 what does the Vertex do for me? How complicated is it to implement whatever it does as I find the Vertex to be a very complex device.

Jack
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post #4869 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 11:20 AM
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Gary,

I have a Vertex that I use for down-scaling 4K to 1080P. If I could find a L10000 what does the Vertex do for me? How complicated is it to implement whatever it does as I find the Vertex to be a very complex device.
Without a device like the Vertex or Linker etc, when you play a UHD from something like a Panasonic UHD player, the player will see that the LS10000 is not HDR compatible so will not send it wide colour gamut or HDR. Instead it sends REC709 and tone maps HDR to SDR so it looks like a higher resolution Blu Ray in effect. The HDR tone mapping by the Panny is pretty good though and seems to preserve a lot of the HDR detail, it just doesn't have the specular highlights or brighter colours that HDR gives you.

With a Vertex, it will allow the Panasonic to send the WCG as well as the UHD resolution. it also allows the SDR/2020 tone mapping option to work (from the 820 or 420 for example) so that you get a similar HDR output but within an SDR gamma - you just have to make sure the LS is using a 2.4 gamma which i think is one of the preset options. otherwise just let the Panasonic do it for you as SDR.

There are a few HDFury product threads here, so if you ask the question in there how to set it up, you will probably get some good feedback and help as the manufacturers seem to be very good like that.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #4870 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 12:41 PM
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Thanks.Now all I have to do is find an affordable L10000.

Jack
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post #4871 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 12:46 PM
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A guy who came round to see my LS a week after the N5 demo guys, went looking on ebay for one because the one he was after happened to be the one that the N5 guy was going to trade in if he hadn't changed his mind. A guy and his two sons were selling their LS1000s as they were upgrading and they were being listed at £1500 each IIRC. That's around $2000. I think the one with the most hours was 700+. You just have to keep your eye out and hope you get lucky like he did.

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Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.

Last edited by Gary Lightfoot; 01-02-2019 at 09:35 AM.
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post #4872 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 12:54 PM
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A guy who came round to see my LS a week after the N5 demo guys went looking on ebay for one because the one he was after happened to be the one that the N5 guy was going to trade in if he hadn't changed his mind. A guy and his two sons were selling their LS1000s as they were upgrading and they were being listed at £1500 each IIRC. That's around $2000. I think the one with the most hours was 700+. You just have to keep your eye out and hope you get lucky like he did.
I'll check out eBay and Craigslist. You never know. That price is excellent.

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post #4873 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 12:58 PM
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Yes that price sounds very good for 700hours, for that price I'd buy one too. I don't know about buying something like that on Ebay though.

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post #4874 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 01:28 PM
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A guy who came round to see my LS a week after the N5 demo guys went looking on ebay for one because the one he was after happened to be the one that the N5 guy was going to trade in if he hadn't changed his mind. A guy and his two sons were selling their LS1000s as they were upgrading and they were being listed at £1500 each IIRC. That's around $2000. I think the one with the most hours was 700+. You just have to keep your eye out and hope you get lucky like he did.
I checked eBay. Cheapest was $5,295. A national Craigslist search showed one in San Diego but the listing had expired.

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post #4875 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 01:31 PM
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You'll probably have to be patient - save the search on ebay and see what eventually turns up. Do one for the LS10500 too as it's the same machine but with HDR capability built in.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #4876 of 4899 Old 12-27-2018, 01:36 PM
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Hey Guys!

I take this as opportunity to state that I am still a very happy owner of a almost 3 years old LS10000 projector. I am using the Epson together with the Panasonic 9004 (9000) Player and a HD-Fury-Linker. Apart from my happiness with this unit, I still have some questions to other owners:


1. After some time sending HDR/BT2020 Output to the Epson, I now have reconfigured it to SDR/BT2020. I only don't know which preset is actually the closest to Gamma 2.4. There are some answers to that in this thread, but ambiguous. I am using right now preset Gamma +2 (contrast -6) as otherwise my Blacks are crushed. Did anyone has a verified answer to that (maybe based on a verified measurement)? I only have a Datacolor Spyder 5 for calibrations and I think this is pretty useless for a laser-light projector.



2. To all who are using the LS10000 together with the new Panasonic 420/820/9000 players: what is your experience with that? With which configuration you are using it? (eg. SDR or HDR etc.). My configuration is actually ("measured" with Sony and R.Masciola test patterns):


Epson:
Gamma: +2
Contrast: -6
Panasonic 9004:
Brightness: +4
Tone Value White: -11
Tone Value Black: -5



3. Actually, I am planning to build a hush-box for this beast. Has anyone done this before? As I have understood so far for the cooling system of this projector, fresh air is sucked in on the backside (where the air-filter is situated) and blown out by both fans on the front side. Can anyone verify that?


So far, many thanks for any feedback and greetings to all Epson-Laser-Fans!

Setup: NAD T758v3 + NAD M25: 7x Jamo D500 + 2x Jamo SUB660 + 4x Jamo IC206 / Epson LS-10000 / Panasonic UB9004 / 2x Quake Q10b powered by B&K BSBPV500 / Mini-DSP 2x4HD
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post #4877 of 4899 Old 01-02-2019, 09:18 AM
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Happy New Year all LS10k owners. I, as I am sure many of you have, have enjoyed many movies over the festive period, but at home and in the cinema. The LS continues to delight me. I come home from the cinema and find my at home experience on a par with commercial cinema. Incredible!

Recently I demonstrated my set up to my first non-family guests who were blown away, echoing the sentiment that our genuinely like being at the cinema. Definitely something I will be repeating.

One thing to remind you all to try out. IMO this machine functions best when receiving an RGB input. Overtime my settings changed to non-RGB. I rectified this today and the increase in crispness is amazing. Interestingly it also solved some judder I was seeing streaming Sherlock Gnomes via Prime Video. An odd gremlin, but nice to solve the issue and get RGB crispness back...

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

Atmos 5.2.2 setup: Silver Ticket 100" screen, Epson LS10000, Denon AVR X2200, Xbox One X.
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post #4878 of 4899 Old 01-02-2019, 09:49 AM
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Happy new Year to you too

Funny you should mention RGB - I recently bought a Panasonic UB420 just out of curiosity to see what its improved tone mapping capability was like, and I also set that as RGB rather then as YcBcR this time, though I had experimented with both before on the UB700. I keep meaning to get my camera out so I can take pictures of test patterns etc to see which one looks better rather than using memory, but I haven't gotten round to it yet.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #4879 of 4899 Old 01-03-2019, 02:40 PM
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I have been enjoying my LS10000 now since May of 2016 but had a question regarding panel alignment. The projector frequently goes several days between uses (it is in my basement) and when powering it on after a long gap, I notice that the panel alignment is initially off. The white Epson logo shows a lot of green fringing and some red artifacts as does white text on any on-screen display text. After about an hour, the panel seems to settle in and the "ghosting" effect goes away. I remember reading in this rather long thread that the projector needs to warm up a bit before doing any sort of panel alignment adjustment. Has anyone else noticed this type of visible misalignment when cold that goes away on warm-up?
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post #4880 of 4899 Old 01-03-2019, 04:13 PM
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I have been enjoying my LS10000 now since May of 2016 but had a question regarding panel alignment. The projector frequently goes several days between uses (it is in my basement) and when powering it on after a long gap, I notice that the panel alignment is initially off. The white Epson logo shows a lot of green fringing and some red artifacts as does white text on any on-screen display text. After about an hour, the panel seems to settle in and the "ghosting" effect goes away. I remember reading in this rather long thread that the projector needs to warm up a bit before doing any sort of panel alignment adjustment. Has anyone else noticed this type of visible misalignment when cold that goes away on warm-up?
Normal behavior.
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post #4881 of 4899 Old 01-03-2019, 11:02 PM
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Yep. Twenty minutes seems to be the sweet spot. For me a single click on the R adjustment totally realigns the panels when they apart.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

Atmos 5.2.2 setup: Silver Ticket 100" screen, Epson LS10000, Denon AVR X2200, Xbox One X.
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post #4882 of 4899 Old 01-04-2019, 07:44 AM
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That's interesting and also the first time I've heard of that problem, is it this wide spread or just a few random machines. My Sony VW95 has never had this type of problem.

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That's interesting and also the first time I've heard of that problem, is it this wide spread or just a few random machines. My Sony VW95 has never had this type of problem.
IMHO the VW95 was the last of the 'built' Sony projectors for under 65k. They just don't have the same solidity now.

My VW90 was an absolute rock solid tank compared to the VW550 that replaced it. The lack of auto lens cover was just penny pinching too.

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post #4884 of 4899 Old 01-04-2019, 08:29 AM
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Yes great picture from the VW95 and rock solid(knock on wood), original lamp still with just over 2k hrs( I don't use it too much). Calibrated it with my i1pro/Spectracal/Sony Image Director 3 software and the PQ is perfect. Haven't compared it recently to the newer models from any of the manufacturers but it still looks good to me. Hurley screen 1.5 gain.

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post #4885 of 4899 Old 01-05-2019, 06:18 AM
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IMHO the VW95 was the last of the 'built' Sony projectors for under 65k. They just don't have the same solidity now.

My VW90 was an absolute rock solid tank compared to the VW550 that replaced it. The lack of auto lens cover was just penny pinching too.
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Yes great picture from the VW95 and rock solid(knock on wood), original lamp still with just over 2k hrs( I don't use it too much). Calibrated it with my i1pro/Spectracal/Sony Image Director 3 software and the PQ is perfect. Haven't compared it recently to the newer models from any of the manufacturers but it still looks good to me. Hurley screen 1.5 gain.
I found the vw90 to be a great unit. It was only lacking the lens memory function of the vw95. I actually looked hard for a good used vw95 before i got a rs520 and then a few months later the x990 (rs640).
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post #4886 of 4899 Old 01-05-2019, 07:12 AM
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I found the vw90 to be a great unit. It was only lacking the lens memory function of the vw95. I actually looked hard for a good used vw95 before i got a rs520 and then a few months later the x990 (rs640).
Last of a breed there, the 90/95. Mine was solid as a rock with a great image even after 2500+ hours.
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post #4887 of 4899 Old 01-05-2019, 07:51 AM
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Actually with all the negative talk/problems about bad panels from Sony and JVC these days and now it seems to a lesser degree Epson, (but I guess the LS series problems aren't really the same) I'm somewhat leery about upgrading. Although I think getting the LS is still okay as far as the panels go.

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post #4888 of 4899 Old 01-09-2019, 01:50 PM
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I have recently bought this second-hand projector: LS10000



with Epson LS10000 ¿Is it possible play 4K with 10bits from Panasonic DMP-UB900EGK?


When I try to play a Blu ray 4K, in LS10000, not appear 10bits, only appear "--". Is it 8bits??

And when I put input signal 4K in LS10000, supRES/4K option is disable in the menu. Is it normal?


I only can see 10-12bits in the LS10000 when I play a BluRay 1080p but never when I play a Bluray 4K. Is it normal?




With a oppo 203 ¿is it possible see 4K with 10bits in my LS10000?


Thank you masters!!
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post #4889 of 4899 Old 02-27-2019, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cronos64 View Post
I have recently bought this second-hand projector: LS10000


with Epson LS10000 Is it possible play 4K with 10bits from Panasonic DMP-UB900EGK?


When I try to play a Blu ray 4K, in LS10000, not appear 10bits, only appear "--". Is it 8bits??

And when I put input signal 4K in LS10000, supRES/4K option is disable in the menu. Is it normal?


I only can see 10-12bits in the LS10000 when I play a BluRay 1080p but never when I play a Bluray 4K. Is it normal?


With a oppo 203 ¿is it possible see 4K with 10bits in my LS10000?


Thank you masters!!

I'd be interested in reading whatever responses there may be.
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post #4890 of 4899 Old 03-09-2019, 09:05 AM
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I have recently bought an Epson LS 10000

It has firmware version V119 installed.

I believe V131 is the latest.

Does anyone know what improvements there are in 131?

I’m very weary of uploading new firmware in case the projector locks up and I can’t use it.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
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