Epson 4K (enhancement) e-shift laser projector....!!!!!! - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1597Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 04:53 AM
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 29,681
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 2725
This projector looks interesting
Mfusick is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 05:20 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,644
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5168 Post(s)
Liked: 5399
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
Just got this email from Projector Central about the new Epson. Guess the NDA is off. Evan claims to have had one for two months and will post review next Wednesday.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ntry_id=683&em

This is a brief quote from the story:

The Pro Cinema LS10000 will be a major step up in price and performance compared to anything previously released by Epson. Its features include 4K enhancement of 1080p sources, native 4K compatibility, a light engine that combines a long life laser light source with reflective 3LCD chips, and 3-way automated lens memory for 2.40, 1.85, and 1.78 Constant Image Height installations. Contrast is so high on the LS10000 that Epson declines to put a number on it. Contrast is simply designated as “Absolute Black.”
that is quite a bold statement, we'll need some hard #'s to validate.

PC and PR historical don't provide measured contrast values, we'll probably have to wait until cine4home and others get a hold of one for actual measurements. As other's have stated, Epson's previous iris isn't in the best in class range so I hope they came up with something that is relatively transparent.

I think pricing will be very important for it's success. anyone buying is still going into a first generation platform with possible long term unknowns. They are known for their great customer service so that's always good thing.
zombie10k is online now  
post #63 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 05:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 963 Post(s)
Liked: 992
Epson has allowed reviewers under NDA to now publish some info on the new Epson LS10000. Perhaps this is timed to the IFA press release. In any case Art, at Projector Reviews, has published some hands-on info at the following link:


http://www.projectorreviews.com/pr_b...h-new-ls10000/


Some new info you may not have already seen is::


- there will be a lower priced Home version - Model LS9600e ($6.5K) retail/on-line version plus the Pro version LS1000 sold only thru local dealers/installers. Price for the LS10000 is "under $8K" but not yet set in concrete, but should be announced at CEDIA. However, it appears the LS9600e lacks the pixel shifting and 4K input. Below are some of the features of the LS10000:

- Lens memory now included.

- Supports DCI color space in additional to Rec. 709

- 1300 calibrated lumens

- Production Units start shipping in late Oct. (perhaps when they start shipping from Japan)

- Full review to be published on Projector Reviews web site next Wednesday (1/10) at start or CEDIA and later this month a shootout with a Sony VW1100

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com

Last edited by Ron Jones; 09-05-2014 at 06:58 PM.
Ron Jones is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 05:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,509
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 984 Post(s)
Liked: 1032
Evan goes on to say:

"Our full review will be published this coming Wednesday once the product is formally announced. In the meantime, just as a head's up,we expect that the LS10000 will be a major game-changing product in the home theater projector biz." Emphasis is mine. PC has had several months to evaluate this product so its comments are very interesting and have my attention. It may be that Epson has just upped the ante. The transition to laser with some kind of 4K as begun. I don't think it will be long until we have real 4K with a laser light source -- probably next year.
sls3000 likes this.

Last edited by Deja Vu; 09-05-2014 at 05:47 AM.
Deja Vu is offline  
post #65 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 05:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trans_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In my theater
Posts: 1,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked: 165
Contrast or lack there was very disappointing on the two laser projectors I have had-Sony VPL-FHZ55 & Panasonic PT-RZ370U
From this statement is sounds like this may no longer be a deal-breaker. Can't wait to see this.
"Black level performance, I must say, is noticeably better than the Epson 5030UB can produce."
trans_lux is offline  
post #66 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 05:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tigerfan33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked: 212
1300 lms calibrated.
Nice!
Are dust blobs possible with this type panel and light source?
I would think not.
tigerfan33 is offline  
post #67 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 05:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Drexler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 1,115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 109
1300 calibrated lumens? Nice! This PJ has caught my attention.
Drexler is offline  
post #68 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 05:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trans_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In my theater
Posts: 1,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked: 165
How do you make the following statement when seeing the image below "As you have seen in the images so far, excellent perceived sharpness."

It looks like she is wearing a mask and the background is pointillism.

trans_lux is offline  
post #69 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 06:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,509
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 984 Post(s)
Liked: 1032
Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post
How do you make the following statement when seeing the image below "As you have seen in the images so far, excellent perceived sharpness."

It looks like she is wearing a mask and the background is pointillism.

"Pointillism /ˈpɔɪntɨlɪzəm/ is a technique of painting in which small, distinct dots of pure color are applied in patterns to form an image."

Let the naysaying begin! I for one find this projector very interesting and if it could handle 3D like a DLP (which I expect it cannot) I'd probably purchase one.
Deja Vu is offline  
post #70 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 06:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Lawguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
"Absolute Black" just means that the lasers get shut off if there is nothing on screen. That's a gimmick.

I'm still completely interested in this but let's see through the marketing.
Lawguy is offline  
post #71 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 06:17 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,039
Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11442 Post(s)
Liked: 9043
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Agreed Ron (and thanks for the info on the origin of e-shift), but the lens quality is as important as the panels resolution.


For example, the lens of the VW1x00 fully resolves a 2160p picture, but the lens in the VW300/500/600 doesn't and also sits in between 1080p and 2160p.


Where does it sit exactly regarding the actual resolution vs the e-shift models, I don't know, but having native 4K/UHD panels isn't enough to warrant a fully resolved 4K picture on screen.


I know you already know this, just thought it would be useful to make it clear .

Source for this information?
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #72 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 06:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,851
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Source for this information?
This was also news to me.
blee0120 is online now  
post #73 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 06:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,940
Mentioned: 305 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5312 Post(s)
Liked: 5307
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Source for this information?
This is alluded to in this review (see the section about 4K Ultra HD): http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/vpl-v...1311073419.htm

But many users - especially in European forums, so there could be a difference between the 500ES and the 600ES - have reported that 4K resolution patterns which are fully resolved on the VW1100 are not with the 500/600ES, which creates weird artifacts on the patterns and prove the reduced resolution. I'll try to find links on the forums when I have time, hopefully if someone else has a link/reference for this they will chime in.

I agree with what is said in the review linked above, which is that this doesn't seem to cause any visible, obvious artifacts with real content (I didn't notice any when I spent some quality time with a 500ES), but hopefully you will agree that the lens of the VW1x00 produces a sharper, better defined picture than the VW500/600ES for half the price, otherwise I don't think you will sell many more of these...

[EDIT: here is a link to one of the in-depth French reviews which mentioned the issue as well, at least on the 500ES: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/p...tml#p178088610]


Also while it's clear that the resolution of e-shift (for the JVCs and probably for this new Epson unless it does a quadruple pass) is about half-way between 1080p and 2160p (around 6MP vs 8MP for full 4K and 2MP for 2K), I have no idea where the 500ES sits due to its lesser lens vs the 1x00ES. My understanding is that it doesn't fully resolve 4K, but whether it resolves 6MP, 7MP, or 7.5MP, I have no idea. I'm sure it's at least as much as the JVC e-shift does, and most likely significantly more (at least it looked that way).

I've never compared myself the picture of the VW1100ES with the 500/600ES (didn't want to be tempted) so I certainly can't say how much better the VW1x00 lens is compared to the 500/600ES.

Last edited by Manni01; 09-05-2014 at 07:20 AM.
Manni01 is online now  
post #74 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 06:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
whitetrash66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,127
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 43
News to me too. In fact, my VW500ES blows my old VW95ES out of the water for sharpness, even in the corners of the picture. I'm sure the VW1100 is better (it better be for 30K!), but i see no "softness" in my image.
whitetrash66 is offline  
post #75 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 06:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Ballis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 69
If it has low a low latency mode for gaming and it comes in white, Im sold.
sls3000 likes this.
Ballis is offline  
post #76 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 07:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Bley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IL. USA
Posts: 3,391
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 896 Post(s)
Liked: 843
I'm not sure why I keep read about Sony projectors lately in this thread.
For the Epson LS10000 pricing, I hope under 8k doesn't mean $7,999 but, seeing as the Epson LS9600e is said to be $6499 it probably will be $7,999. Can't wait to hear more reviews about this projector.
Tom Bley is online now  
post #77 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 07:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tigerfan33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked: 212
Whats the difference between the 10000 and 9600?
tigerfan33 is offline  
post #78 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 07:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
MX48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Metter
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post
Whats the difference between the 10000 and 9600?
I believe the 9600 has no e-shift.
MX48 is offline  
post #79 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 07:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Bley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IL. USA
Posts: 3,391
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 896 Post(s)
Liked: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post
Whats the difference between the 10000 and 9600?
I guess the 9600 doesn't do the 4k processing from what I read.
Tom Bley is online now  
post #80 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ericglo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Just below the US in South Florida
Posts: 11,366
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3347 Post(s)
Liked: 1803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post
"Absolute Black" just means that the lasers get shut off if there is nothing on screen. That's a gimmick.

I'm still completely interested in this but let's see through the marketing.
To quote Ap Now, Absolutely G$D D#$MN right!

I remember asking Scott (tse) of VDC about this a couple of years ago. He was showing me VDC's new LED DLP pj. When I brought up black and on/off cr, he said it can turn the LEDs off for absolute black. Great, but what about true on/off cr? IIRC the way he measured it was with one pixel on on a black image. This way the LEDS were turned on, but still trying to do black. IIRC that pj could do around 5k to 1 on/off.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
I'm not sure why I keep read about Sony projectors lately in this thread.
For the Epson LS10000 pricing, I hope under 8k doesn't mean $7,999 but, seeing as the Epson LS9600e is said to be $6499 it probably will be $7,999. Can't wait to hear more reviews about this projector.
Projector envy? or maybe it is another word that starts with P.

I agree about the pricing. At $6500, I am out. Even discounted, I can't see it getting down below $5k. I probably don't watch tv/movies more than about 30 hours a week and a lot of that is background when I am working on the computer. For serious watching, I am probably around 10 to maybe 15. That means I would use the pj maybe around 800 hours tops a year. Two bulbs would probably get me a couple of years till 4k and this alternative light source has become more common place.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
Ericglo is online now  
post #81 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 08:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
space2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 38


from this image they are using 2 blue lasers 1 to create yellow which then gets split to red and green, then 1 just for the blue
space2001 is offline  
post #82 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 08:31 AM
Member
 
skater2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post
Contrast or lack there was very disappointing on the two laser projectors I have had-Sony VPL-FHZ55 & Panasonic PT-RZ370U
From this statement is sounds like this may no longer be a deal-breaker. Can't wait to see this.
"Black level performance, I must say, is noticeably better than the Epson 5030UB can produce."
Those two projectors were more oriented toward professional installations, like advertising or corporate presentations, often in high ambient light environments. There might be aspects of their designs other than the choice of laser illumination that led to their low contrasts.

Last edited by skater2; 09-05-2014 at 08:42 AM.
skater2 is offline  
post #83 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 963 Post(s)
Liked: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post
"Absolute Black" just means that the lasers get shut off if there is nothing on screen. That's a gimmick.

I'm still completely interested in this but let's see through the marketing.

Kind of like the "infinite black" Panasonic claimed for some of there plasmas, which simply shut down the display when the incoming image was 100% black (not even a single white pixel). I've seen something similar with several business/classroom projectors I've reviewed. I agree this has nothing to do with real black levels or contrast ratios. Art's review to be posted on Projector Reviews (hopefully Wednesday) should shed some light (pun intended) on the black level performance of the new Epson projector.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #84 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 08:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,976
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 963 Post(s)
Liked: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by skater2 View Post
Those two projectors were more oriented toward professional installations, like advertising or corporate presentations, often in high ambient light environments. There be aspects of their designs other than the choice of laser illumination that led to their low contrasts.

CR is more determined by the imaging technology and optics and far less by the light source. Neither the Sony nor the Panasonic used LCoS and the CRs they achieved were typical for a lamp based projector of a similar design.
skater2 likes this.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #85 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 09:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 12,912
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3639 Post(s)
Liked: 809
I would like to know what HDMI version and HDCP version the new Epson uses. Anyone know?
lovingdvd is offline  
post #86 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 09:33 AM
Member
 
guido310's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by klapse View Post
I also find this interesting.
it looks like that the big laser module has 24 diodes, if picture is right...

Osram's new Phaser module (2000 lumens) only has 20 diodes




So or they are not using Osram Phaser or the picture is slightly uncorrect...
guido310 is offline  
post #87 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 09:47 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,039
Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11442 Post(s)
Liked: 9043
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I would like to know what HDMI version and HDCP version the new Epson uses. Anyone know?
That is the same question I had and I have looked, but could not find an answer. Art does talk about how this will accept 4K and talks about 4K BD viewing on this projector once 4K BD's become available. That leads me to think it is HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2. Will know shortly.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #88 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 09:59 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 12,912
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3639 Post(s)
Liked: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
That is the same question I had and I have looked, but could not find an answer. Art does talk about how this will accept 4K and talks about 4K BD viewing on this projector once 4K BD's become available. That leads me to think it is HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2. Will know shortly.
Yes, but HDMI 2.0x - what is the "x". Unless I'm confused (a good possibility) then that "x" is an important difference for future compatibility. Either that or it needs something 2.x (can't recall which - Manni tells me and I constantly forget! :: )
lovingdvd is offline  
post #89 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 10:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trans_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In my theater
Posts: 1,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by skater2 View Post
Those two projectors were more oriented toward professional installations, like advertising or corporate presentations, often in high ambient light environments. There might be aspects of their designs other than the choice of laser illumination that led to their low contrasts.
Certainly true, the Sony was so bad I can't imagine it being useful for any application.
trans_lux is offline  
post #90 of 4897 Old 09-05-2014, 10:37 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Venice, Florida, USA
Posts: 21,464
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1418 Post(s)
Liked: 1014
There are several different versions of a laser/phosphor hybrid light source. Some versions use one blue laser with a slot in the spinning phosphor wheel to let some of the blue beam to pass through without hitting the wheel. This ispatented and to get around it one could use two blue lasers, one direct and the other to light a yellow spinning phosphor wheel. This is more expensive which I think is part of the high price of the Epson. It would appear the Epson uses two blue lasers.
mark haflich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off