SIM2 Nero 3 LED-DLP Projector at CEDIA 2014 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 51Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 08:17 AM
Member
 
guido310's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by guido310 View Post
Should not exist a second version as far i know.....just 20th....let's see instead if is 120 Hz or 144 Triple flash (i hope so)
here we have only Nero 3 and not 20th

http://www.sim2.com/home/en/domino-line-en
guido310 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 08:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 2,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 262 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualunquemente View Post
"Horiz. & vertical scan frequency 15-80kHz/48-144Hz;"

Does that mean 144hz triple flash 3D
Yes...triple flash (144Hz) 3D.
Pete is offline  
post #93 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 08:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,227
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked: 121
If those 1200 lumens (measured) are legit after its calibrated, I am interested.

I scanned the thread though .. is the .65 chip confirmed or just speculated? Surely they can do .95 if DPI got it in an LED unit for much less than this retails for?
hifiaudio2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #94 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 08:34 AM
Member
 
Qualunquemente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by guido310 View Post
Should not exist a second version as far i know.....just 20th....let's see instead if is 120 Hz or 144 Triple flash (i hope so)
So it's the first (and only) 3D triple flash LED-RGB projector ... and you were saying it was able to fill no problem 160" 1.0 gain screen ... I want to demo it as soon as possible.
Qualunquemente is offline  
post #95 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 08:51 AM
Member
 
guido310's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualunquemente View Post
So it's the first (and only) 3D triple flash LED-RGB projector ... and you were saying it was able to fill no problem 160" 1.0 gain screen ... I want to demo it as soon as possible.

So at the end it seems we'll have the two versions....if so, i apologize for the uncorrect information
guido310 is offline  
post #96 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 09:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,227
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Yeah seems to be multiple new LED units. Nero 3 with 1400 lumens and Nero 20th with 1200 lumens (both list 144hz). Neither list the DMD size but since the contrast is listed so much lower than the M.150s which does have .95 chips I guess we can continue to assume these have .65. Too bad.
hifiaudio2 is offline  
post #97 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 10:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 2,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 262 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Yeah seems to be multiple new LED units. Nero 3 with 1400 lumens and Nero 20th with 1200 lumens (both list 144hz). Neither list the DMD size but since the contrast is listed so much lower than the M.150s which does have .95 chips I guess we can continue to assume these have .65. Too bad.
Really not multiple units...same basic model with the hand-selected better measuring (in terms of light output) getting the NERO 3 LED label (along with Live Color Management), and the rest being sent down the NERO 20th LED assembly line (no Live Color Management). If you want the V12 engine instead of V8 (i.e. the .95 chip vs. .65) you pay more and buy one of the M-series models....M.120 @ $20K (1000 ANSI equivalent to 1500 lamp); M.150 @ $28K (1200 ANSI equivalent to 1800 lamp). The M-series are bigger and heavier and louder (liquid cooled), and they won't be able to light up as big a screen as the NERO 3/20th but they do have .95 chips in them. But before you pooh pooh the NERO3/20th for having a .65 chip, I urge you to audition one and see if you have any sense that the image is lacking in contrast. A .65 DLP chip is way sharper and faster than a .7 LCOS chip.
Deja Vu likes this.
Pete is offline  
post #98 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 10:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,227
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Yeah I would love to see one. I will wait to read some reviews.
hifiaudio2 is offline  
post #99 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 05:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 986
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls View Post
so if a 10000+ sirio projector is unable to display color correctly ... how horrid are the 2000 $ projectors ???
Scott said; "In the demo, two SIM2 projectors were compared—the Nero 3 and the Sirio, a single-chip DLP with dual UHP lamps, which achieve a peak brightness of 7000 lumens. Both projectors were set up with the basic picture controls but not fully calibrated".

Well, since neither were brightness matched and calibrated, we can't possibly know what the image is even supposed to really look like. Plus we're looking at images on displays that probably aren't calibrated as well. The difference brightness matched and calibrated would probably be minimal between the two. But the long life-span of the LED light engine is the icing on the cake/takeaway here.

In 2-years time, we will have much more "affordable" choices, that are also 4K.

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #100 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 09:31 PM
Member
 
Qualunquemente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Scott said; "In the demo, two SIM2 projectors were compared—the Nero 3 and the Sirio, a single-chip DLP with dual UHP lamps, which achieve a peak brightness of 7000 lumens. Both projectors were set up with the basic picture controls but not fully calibrated".

Well, since neither were brightness matched and calibrated, we can't possibly know what the image is even supposed to really look like. Plus we're looking at images on displays that probably aren't calibrated as well. The difference brightness matched and calibrated would probably be minimal between the two. But the long life-span of the LED light engine is the icing on the cake/takeaway here.

In 2-years time, we will have much more "affordable" choices, that are also 4K.
Puremovie and Puremotion are still present ?
Qualunquemente is offline  
post #101 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 09:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 986
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualunquemente View Post
Puremovie and Puremotion are still present ?
There's no mention on the official SIM2 website. You would have to inquire via email or phone unless someone else knows and can chime in.

As a side note, other projectors on their website such as the NERO 3D-2 list this information under the product detail tab. Unfortunately, it's missing from the Nero 3 product info tab.

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT

Last edited by Mr. Hatcher; 09-19-2014 at 09:50 PM.
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #102 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 11:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,869
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 511 Post(s)
Liked: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualunquemente View Post
Puremovie and Puremotion are still present ?
Don't see it listed and totally forgot to look for it mentioned on the site (PureAction 2D and 3D and PureMovie). Hopefully someone will get a definitive answer on this, as well as the color space options in the menu.

Last edited by Spizz; 09-19-2014 at 11:57 PM.
Spizz is offline  
post #103 of 147 Old 09-19-2014, 11:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,869
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 511 Post(s)
Liked: 356
And are the .65 chips DC3 or DC4? Do the .65 come in the different configurations? Currently have the DC4 .95 chip in my projector so don't want to take a hit sharpness or contrast. But as Pete says to see it in person (not so easy) or just wait for a review and some measurements.
Spizz is offline  
post #104 of 147 Old 09-20-2014, 07:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,869
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 511 Post(s)
Liked: 356
Sim2 Nero 20th

- 1,200(**) lumens light output (the equivalent of 1,800 lumens of lamp-based projectors)
- .65 dmd Chip (DC3 or DC4?)
- 3D Up to 144 hz
- Color Gamut >135% NTSC
- 20,000 Hour LED Lifetime
- Noise Level <<25 db
- Price $9,900

Sim2 Nero 3

- 1,400(**) lumens light output (the equivalent of 2,000 lumens of lamp-based projectors)
- .65 dmd Chip (DC3 or DC4?)
- 3D Up to 144 hz
- Color Gamut >115% NTSC
- 30,000 Hour LED Lifetime
- Noise Level <<28 db
- Sim2 EasyLED Control and Calibration Software
- Hand Selected Parts
- Price $14,000

Last edited by Spizz; 09-20-2014 at 07:50 PM.
Spizz is offline  
post #105 of 147 Old 09-26-2014, 03:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,531
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1002 Post(s)
Liked: 1052
I'm interested in this projector -- for some reason it seems to have been given a pass when it comes to calibrated lumens, longevity of the light source (LEDs), contrast (on/off) and the modulation of the LEDs for increased contrast. The new Epson LS10000 has been scrutinized to death but no one has challenged Sim2's claims about lumens (1200 to 1400 or 1600 to 1800 due to what's known as the H-K phenomenon). Sim2 claimed the M.150 (also LED) was 1100 lumens but some owners have stated it is closer to 600 once calibrated. Are the LEDs really good for 20,000 hours?

Here's what PC has to say about the H-K phenomenon:

"Both academic papers and industry press report that LED projectors are often perceived as being brighter than their counterparts using traditional arc lamps. Specifically, the Helmholtz-Kohlrausch (HK) phenomenon states that humans perceive intense color saturation as a component of brightness, so a highly-saturated red, for example, will appear brighter than white of the same luminance value.

Our testing shows that a pure color image from an LED projector will appear brighter than a pure color image from a projector using an arc lamp when those two images have the same luminance value. However, this effect is most pronounced in images with large solid areas of highly-saturated color, and is either much less visible or absent when viewing video and film. There are many factors that can make two projectors look different from one another, and the HK phenomenon is only a practical concern in some circumstances. This is something we will be investigating more in the future, as our results are by no means definitive or final."


Since this projector is DLP it should be ghost-free for 3D. The question about it being bright enough for 3D remains. 3D is obviously my main concern. Something else I need confirmed is whether or not it has active CFI in 3D mode. Are Sim2's contrast numbers accurate (30,000:1)? If dynamic back reveals pumping then what's the native contrast ratio? I believe these are reasonable questions and I'd like answers before making a purchase. Hopefully others are interested in the answers to these questions as well.

Last edited by Deja Vu; 09-26-2014 at 04:00 PM.
Deja Vu is offline  
post #106 of 147 Old 09-26-2014, 05:52 PM
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 10,827
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5167 Post(s)
Liked: 2594
Sim2 is normally accurate for their specifications and claims. With LEDs there's a lack of standards when it comes to measuring light output from them because they don't look like the amount of bulb lumens we typically see so there's a bit of ambiguity when it comes with to specifications.

We know this is DLP based so at most expect measured contrast up to 30000:1 which seems to be at the limit of what DLP can do with a decent DI and good native contrast. Their lumis line of DLP projectors measure a little above 30000:1 and there's rare instances of pumping. I've owned a Lumis Host. I do think it's DI algorithms are a little behind Runco's in overall performance but it's still generally spectacular. It has a bit too much flicker, much like JVCs implementation. This is possible due to a high native contrast which theyre able to achieve through high quality light paths and graded DMDs. Sim2 claims to have reworked their implementation for these projectors so well have to hear from reviewers and see what they think.
Deja Vu likes this.

Last edited by Seegs108; 09-26-2014 at 05:58 PM.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #107 of 147 Old 09-26-2014, 06:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,227
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Is there not a Lumis thread where people report a little over 800 calibrated lumens for a unit they claim 3000 on?
HoustonHoyaFan likes this.
hifiaudio2 is offline  
post #108 of 147 Old 09-26-2014, 06:56 PM
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 10,827
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5167 Post(s)
Liked: 2594
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Is there not a Lumis thread where people report a little over 800 calibrated lumens for a unit they claim 3000 on?
Those units had a light engine defect and went in for a repair.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #109 of 147 Old 09-27-2014, 07:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,531
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1002 Post(s)
Liked: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Sim2 is normally accurate for their specifications and claims. With LEDs there's a lack of standards when it comes to measuring light output from them because they don't look like the amount of bulb lumens we typically see so there's a bit of ambiguity when it comes with to specifications.

We know this is DLP based so at most expect measured contrast up to 30000:1 which seems to be at the limit of what DLP can do with a decent DI and good native contrast. Their lumis line of DLP projectors measure a little above 30000:1 and there's rare instances of pumping. I've owned a Lumis Host. I do think it's DI algorithms are a little behind Runco's in overall performance but it's still generally spectacular. It has a bit too much flicker, much like JVCs implementation. This is possible due to a high native contrast which theyre able to achieve through high quality light paths and graded DMDs. Sim2 claims to have reworked their implementation for these projectors so well have to hear from reviewers and see what they think.
I think Sim2 claims about 100,000:1 dynamic contrast for the Lumis but a useful 30,000:1 would be nice. The Nero 3 claims 30,000:1 so what should we actually expect? If it could come close to 30,000:1 I think I would be happy.

Most of the reviewers who get their hands on Sim2 products don't provide many, if any, measurements for lumens or contrast, which is a bit frustrating. I think AVForums got about 900 calibrated lumens out of the M.150 but it didn't measure contrast. Some users claimed they only got 600 calibrated lumens -- why this big a discrepancy? What we usually get from reviewers are subjective reports about how good these projectors' images appear. I don't doubt that Sim2 projectors are about as good as it gets but I'd like to see a review from Cine4Home of the Nero 3 with all the relevant measurements -- I suspect it's not going to happen.

These are the things I'm taking into consideration:

The good -- Sim2 product, will probably have descent usable contrast, DLP so I should expect stellar 3D, reasonably quiet (non-intrusive), LED (long life with no need to constantly calibrate), maybe comparable or better brightness than JVC or Epson and likely better brightness in 3D than Sony, cost of projector should be comparable (except the JVC units should be a far bit cheaper).

The bad -- nowhere near the dynamic contrast of a Sony, JVC or now an Epson, seems expensive for what you get especially compared to JVC products, no way to playback 4K material or upgrade the projector to accept 4K? No way to upscale 1080p to fake 4K, no RC or super Resolution.

If it wasn't for my love of 3D I'd probably buy a JVC lamp based projector or if JVC could do reasonably bright and DLP-like ghost-free 3D then I'd have one -- lamp and all. The Nero 3 may be the best "reasonably priced" 3D DLP projector that will meet my needs for the next four to five years. However, I don't want to spend $10K on something which isn't a nice step up from the Mits 8000 or Sharp 30000, both of which I already have.
Deja Vu is offline  
post #110 of 147 Old 09-27-2014, 07:44 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,925
Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5419 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
If it wasn't for my love of 3D I'd probably buy a JVC lamp based projector or if JVC could do reasonably bright and DLP-like ghost-free 3D then I'd have one -- lamp and all. The Nero 3 may be the best "reasonably priced" 3D DLP projector that will meet my needs for the next four to five years. However, I don't want to spend $10K on something which isn't a nice step up from the Mits 8000 or Sharp 30000, both of which I already have.
same here, my main interest is in 3D. I already have 2D projectors like the DC4 .95 Planar and VW1100 that are likely going to exceed it's overall 2D capabilities. The main thing we have to find out is how bright it is in 3D and the perceived contrast performance in 3D.

edit: it has to be $8200 better in 3D considering what I paid for the 30K..
Deja Vu likes this.

Last edited by zombie10k; 09-27-2014 at 08:01 AM.
zombie10k is offline  
post #111 of 147 Old 09-27-2014, 09:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,531
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1002 Post(s)
Liked: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
same here, my main interest is in 3D. I already have 2D projectors like the DC4 .95 Planar and VW1100 that are likely going to exceed it's overall 2D capabilities. The main thing we have to find out is how bright it is in 3D and the perceived contrast performance in 3D.

edit: it has to be $8200 better in 3D considering what I paid for the 30K..
It has to be $9,100 better in 3D considering what I paid for the Mits 7900.
Deja Vu is offline  
post #112 of 147 Old 09-27-2014, 11:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I think Sim2 claims about 100,000:1 dynamic contrast for the Lumis but a useful 30,000:1 would be nice. The Nero 3 claims 30,000:1 so what should we actually expect? If it could come close to 30,000:1 I think I would be happy.

Most of the reviewers who get their hands on Sim2 products don't provide many, if any, measurements for lumens or contrast, which is a bit frustrating. I think AVForums got about 900 calibrated lumens out of the M.150 but it didn't measure contrast. Some users claimed they only got 600 calibrated lumens -- why this big a discrepancy? What we usually get from reviewers are subjective reports about how good these projectors' images appear. I don't doubt that Sim2 projectors are about as good as it gets but I'd like to see a review from Cine4Home of the Nero 3 with all the relevant measurements -- I suspect it's not going to happen.

These are the things I'm taking into consideration:

The good -- Sim2 product, will probably have descent usable contrast, DLP so I should expect stellar 3D, reasonably quiet (non-intrusive), LED (long life with no need to constantly calibrate), maybe comparable or better brightness than JVC or Epson and likely better brightness in 3D than Sony, cost of projector should be comparable (except the JVC units should be a far bit cheaper).

The bad -- nowhere near the dynamic contrast of a Sony, JVC or now an Epson, seems expensive for what you get especially compared to JVC products, no way to playback 4K material or upgrade the projector to accept 4K? No way to upscale 1080p to fake 4K, no RC or super Resolution.

If it wasn't for my love of 3D I'd probably buy a JVC lamp based projector or if JVC could do reasonably bright and DLP-like ghost-free 3D then I'd have one -- lamp and all. The Nero 3 may be the best "reasonably priced" 3D DLP projector that will meet my needs for the next four to five years. However, I don't want to spend $10K on something which isn't a nice step up from the Mits 8000 or Sharp 30000, both of which I already have.
Hopefully we will find this out very soon
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #113 of 147 Old 10-27-2014, 08:00 AM
Member
 
Qualunquemente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
same here, my main interest is in 3D. I already have 2D projectors like the DC4 .95 Planar and VW1100 that are likely going to exceed it's overall 2D capabilities. The main thing we have to find out is how bright it is in 3D and the perceived contrast performance in 3D.

edit: it has to be $8200 better in 3D considering what I paid for the 30K..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
It has to be $9,100 better in 3D considering what I paid for the Mits 7900.
On paper, it should be the best of the best in 3D performance:
1) DLP (best ghost-free technology for 3D)
2) LED (no colorwheel, no rainbows, no eye fatigue)
3) 144hz (72 hz x eye is the best refresh rate for cinema contents)
4) 3D PureAction frame interpolation (no flicker)
5) 1.400 lumens

The only option to have a better 3D then this is ... to buy 2 of these and go for a passive system
It's gonna kill Sharp 30k, Mitsu 7800 and all the other 3D projectors easily hands down ...

Last edited by Qualunquemente; 10-27-2014 at 08:08 AM.
Qualunquemente is offline  
post #114 of 147 Old 10-27-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 10,827
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5167 Post(s)
Liked: 2594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualunquemente View Post
On paper, it should be the best of the best in 3D performance:
1) DLP (best ghost-free technology for 3D)
2) LED (no colorwheel, no rainbows, no eye fatigue)
3) 144hz (72 hz x eye is the best refresh rate for cinema contents)
4) 3D PureAction frame interpolation (no flicker)
5) 1.400 lumens

The only option to have a better 3D then this is ... to buy 2 of these and go for a passive system
It's gonna kill Sharp 30k, Mitsu 7800 and all the other 3D projectors easily hands down ...

If you're going to go passive what's the point in staying with DLP? Two JVCs would be the ultimate passive 3D setuo imo.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #115 of 147 Old 10-27-2014, 02:28 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,925
Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5419 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
If you're going to go passive what's the point in staying with DLP? Two JVCs would be the ultimate passive 3D setuo imo.
The convergence would be better aligning 2 single panels vs 6. Also you could run the Nero in an active stack for the extra brightness on a large screen with no other special requirements and still have no x-talk. basically cloning what Runco did with the D73 for less money.

the concern I have the the passive JVC setup is the color filters and glasses. how noticeable is the color shift going to be based on the cine4home article that was recently discussed. are there other methods to go dual passive and still have excellent 3D color performance? The contrast benefit would go away for me if I see obvious color anomalies.
zombie10k is offline  
post #116 of 147 Old 10-27-2014, 02:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
12GAGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 351 Post(s)
Liked: 394
As usual, that is a good recommendation by Zombie. To be honest, I believe that the combination of LED units with the Omega filters would yield great results. One thing that I have noticed in my DLP stack, is that I needed to brightness match from filter to filter in addition to color calibrating each unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
The convergence would be better aligning 2 single panels vs 6. Also you could run the Nero in an active stack for the extra brightness on a large screen with no other special requirements and still have no x-talk. basically cloning what Runco did with the D73 for less money.

the concern I have the the passive JVC setup is the color filters and glasses. how noticeable is the color shift going to be based on the cine4home article that was recently discussed. are there other methods to go dual passive and still have excellent 3D color performance? The contrast benefit would go away for me if I see obvious color anomalies.
12GAGE is offline  
post #117 of 147 Old 10-27-2014, 03:16 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 23,130
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4156 Post(s)
Liked: 2388
When I asked Motorman about it, he said LED did (would?) not work well with the Omega filters. The Omega filters work by filtering two narrow bands per primary, slightly different for each left and right image. With LED the primaries are to pure so there's no way to filter a narrow band, you either hit the LED's native band and get a nice bright color, or you miss and and get very little output, resulting in potentially drastic color shifts. Worst case you could get one color from one eye, and not from the other.
stanger89 is offline  
post #118 of 147 Old 10-27-2014, 04:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
12GAGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 351 Post(s)
Liked: 394
Hmm, that is interesting. Thanks for that info. I knew the pure Red was desired but I didn't think it would be too pure for filtering. I guess you learn something everyday. That is really bad news because the Omega filters are excellent pieces for passive 3D. I guess the Runco 73D is using some variant of the Dolby filters for it's passive setup. I know the big brother 113D uses the panavision/omega system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
When I asked Motorman about it, he said LED did (would?) not work well with the Omega filters. The Omega filters work by filtering two narrow bands per primary, slightly different for each left and right image. With LED the primaries are to pure so there's no way to filter a narrow band, you either hit the LED's native band and get a nice bright color, or you miss and and get very little output, resulting in potentially drastic color shifts. Worst case you could get one color from one eye, and not from the other.
12GAGE is offline  
post #119 of 147 Old 10-27-2014, 04:47 PM
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 10,827
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5167 Post(s)
Liked: 2594
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
The convergence would be better aligning 2 single panels vs 6. Also you could run the Nero in an active stack for the extra brightness on a large screen with no other special requirements and still have no x-talk. basically cloning what Runco did with the D73 for less money.

the concern I have the the passive JVC setup is the color filters and glasses. how noticeable is the color shift going to be based on the cine4home article that was recently discussed. are there other methods to go dual passive and still have excellent 3D color performance? The contrast benefit would go away for me if I see obvious color anomalies.
There's going to be a number a issues you'd need to deal with no matter the way you do the stack. You might as well go the extra mile and deal with one or two other issues but gain all the extra contrast and pure PQ advantages the JVCs offer. Considering two DLP projectors would double the already lackluster black level and raise apparent contrast in low APL scenes even more I wouldn't even bother doing a passive stack with DLPs. It just isn't worth it.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #120 of 147 Old 10-27-2014, 05:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,925
Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5419 Post(s)
Liked: 5778
I mentioned the NERO in an active setup, not passive. If one has a large, low gain screen, an active stack would require no additional changes to the equipment or screen and it's guaranteed x-talk free.

I have doubts about the potential color issues mentioned in the cine4home article on the passive JVC setup. This is why I asked if there are other passive methods available for the JVC that doesn't require a specific screen material. Add in the softness of the 6 panel alignment, it doesn't sound that appetizing. I would need proof that the color looks excellent in 3D with that specific setup.
zombie10k is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
cedia 2014 , frontpage

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off