Epson LS10000 Vs Sony ES350 - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 218 Old 03-24-2015, 09:27 PM
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If man built it, man can put a new one in. The question is no whether it can, but whether Epson service centers will perform this service and how much will the light source and labor cost.
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post #182 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 05:13 AM
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follow up.. Sony is a true input 4k projector. why does that not trump the Epson unit.? are we saying that the Epson produces just as clear deep ect a 4k pic as the sony with Epson using e-shift.
I would think if the sony can be had for 1k more.. than isn't it more logical to have a 4k native unit for the future as more media is set for 4k? then again.. I am just a newbie and cant decide on which of the two.

Last edited by chicago66; 03-25-2015 at 05:16 AM.
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post #183 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
follow up.. Sony is a true input 4k projector. why does that not trump the Epson unit.? are we saying that the Epson produces just as clear deep ect a 4k pic as the sony with Epson using e-shift.
I would think if the sony can be had for 1k more.. than isn't it more logical to have a 4k native unit for the future as more media is set for 4k? then again.. I am just a newbie and cant decide on which of the two.
You may have seen it but in case:


"The Sony VW350ES and the Epson LS10000 differ in both features and picture quality. With regard to picture quality, they show noticeable differences in contrast, brightness, and picture detail as follows: ...":

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...ny-vw350es.htm


Either will make you happy I think as they are both top notch in general.
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post #184 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 05:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
follow up.. Sony is a true input 4k projector. why does that not trump the Epson unit.? are we saying that the Epson produces just as clear deep ect a 4k pic as the sony with Epson using e-shift.
I would think if the sony can be had for 1k more.. than isn't it more logical to have a 4k native unit for the future as more media is set for 4k? then again.. I am just a newbie and cant decide on which of the two.
Clearly the marketing for 4K has paid off. There is SOOOO much more to picture quality than resolution. Especially when we're talking about 1080p vs 4K. Imagine for a second the lens on this Sony projector was relatively bad, the projector had poor ANSI contrast, terrible motion problems, and wasn't particularly bright. Would you still want to pay more for it, or own it at all, just because it's 4K? Take a momemt and think about that. Just because it's 4K does not mean it's image will be better than something 1080p. Luckily for Sony their current 4K machines are generally excellent albeit a little behind the other LCOS machines out there when it comes to on/off contrast. The Epson has a clear advantage with on/off contrast and this alone places it's image quality up high. This is one of the reasons the Epson is considered to be in the same league as the Sonys and JVCs.
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post #185 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 06:01 AM
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Thanks guys for all the feed back and information here. I appreciate the comments on the 4k. will either one of these work better than the other on larger screen . Room size will accommodate seating at 10 feet 15 and 20. back row really just a bar stand and stoles. did I spell that right.. any ways .. thanks for all the help.. I was originally at the jvc units.. and somehow ended up here..
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post #186 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Kouzev View Post
You may have seen it but in case:


"The Sony VW350ES and the Epson LS10000 differ in both features and picture quality. With regard to picture quality, they show noticeable differences in contrast, brightness, and picture detail as follows: ...":

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...ny-vw350es.htm


Either will make you happy I think as they are both top notch in general.
Also Art had this to say over at Projector Reviews:

"The surprises, were, of course, that:

1. The Epson Pro Cinema LS10000 produces an image that to me, seems a step up in sharpness on 1080p content from the newest series of pixel shifting JVC projectors that I’ve tested.

2. Call it a pleasant surprise, but the first really big surprise is that it seems every bit as sharp on 1080p content (with 4K-2 engaged) as the 4K Sony’s look on 1080p content with Reality Creation on 20, or even 40, if not sharper.

3. On 4K content, the Epson at first glance seems as sharp as the top of the line Sony, but it accomplishes that with a harder – and on films with noticeable film grain, a visibly grainier look. Let me be clear: When it comes to true sharpness and detail, the Sony is superior. The $28,000 Sony’s picture on 4K content is more natural!

Still, that a 1080p projector can put up an image that in terms of perceived sharpness, could easily be mistaken for the native sharpness of a true 4K projector is most impressive!"


It's an interesting debate with no easy answer. Of course all of this will be moot in five or six months when the hopefully updated (new) projectors hit the market.
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post #187 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Clearly the marketing for 4K has paid off. There is SOOOO much more to picture quality than resolution. Especially when we're talking about 1080p vs 4K. Imagine for a second the lens on this Sony projector was relatively bad, the projector had poor ANSI contrast, terrible motion problems, and wasn't particularly bright. Would you still want to pay more for it, or own it at all, just because it's 4K? Take a momemt and think about that. Just because it's 4K does not mean it's image will be better than something 1080p. Luckily for Sony their current 4K machines are generally excellent albeit a little behind the other LCOS machines out there when it comes to on/off contrast. The Epson has a clear advantage with on/off contrast and this alone places it's image quality up high. This is one of the reasons the Epson is considered to be in the same league as the Sonys and JVCs.
Either that or think back to the days when cheap 1080P units first became available. People were buying them over highly discounted high end 720P projectors. Marantz VP12S4's were going for 10 cents on the dollars and yet the 720P Marantz threw a much better image than the cheap 1080P projectors.
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post #188 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
Thanks guys for all the feed back and information here. I appreciate the comments on the 4k. will either one of these work better than the other on larger screen . Room size will accommodate seating at 10 feet 15 and 20. back row really just a bar stand and stoles. did I spell that right.. any ways .. thanks for all the help.. I was originally at the jvc units.. and somehow ended up here..
The Sony VW350 is brighter. The LS10000 will dim slower. The brightness can be regained on the VW350 with a new lamp replacement, the LS10000 can't. The VW350 will require lamp purchases over time. The LS10000 will not.
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post #189 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Imagine for a second the lens on [a] projector was relatively bad [and] the projector had poor ANSI contrast, terrible motion problems, and wasn't particularly bright.

The day they put 64K panels in it I will buy one.

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post #190 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Either that or think back to the days when cheap 1080P units first became available. People were buying them over highly discounted high end 720P projectors. Marantz VP12S4's were going for 10 cents on the dollars and yet the 720P Marantz threw a much better image than the cheap 1080P projectors.
I honestly hope this happens to the top end 1080p projectors when 4K panels become commonplace -- there are a couple of 1080p projectors I'll happily buy for 10 cents on the dollar. Hopefully this happens sooner rather than later.
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post #191 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 01:36 PM
 
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I honestly hope this happens to the top end 1080p projectors when 4K panels become commonplace -- there are a couple of 1080p projectors I'll happily buy for 10 cents on the dollar. Hopefully this happens sooner rather than later.
It already is happening. Projectors like the Planar PD8150, Marantz VP-15S1, and even older JVC models like the X30 can be had for less than $1500 and many times less than $1000.
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post #192 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Either that or think back to the days when cheap 1080P units first became available.
Or just go look at many of the 4K LCD flat panels compared to a 2K OLED.

--Darin

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post #193 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Clearly the marketing for 4K has paid off. There is SOOOO much more to picture quality than resolution. Especially when we're talking about 1080p vs 4K. Imagine for a second the lens on this Sony projector was relatively bad, the projector had poor ANSI contrast, terrible motion problems, and wasn't particularly bright. Would you still want to pay more for it, or own it at all, just because it's 4K? Take a momemt and think about that. Just because it's 4K does not mean it's image will be better than something 1080p. Luckily for Sony their current 4K machines are generally excellent albeit a little behind the other LCOS machines out there when it comes to on/off contrast. The Epson has a clear advantage with on/off contrast and this alone places it's image quality up high. This is one of the reasons the Epson is considered to be in the same league as the Sonys and JVCs.
I believe you are bang on. I feel that if Sony had placed even a manual iris in the ES350 we would not be having this debate or an Epson vs Sony thread.
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post #194 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 02:38 PM
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I believe you are bang on. I feel that if Sony had placed even a manual iris in the ES350 we would not be having this debate or an Epson vs Sony thread.
Sony has more than that in the VW500/600 and we would have the debate even then.

People weigh different parameters differently and have different needs for their particular setups, but just based on what I've seen of them and my own preferences and needs, if somebody offered to loan me a projector for the next 12 months (so costs are irrelevant) I would take a LS10000 over even a VW600. If I spent more time with each maybe I would change my mind, but at the moment I would take the LS10000 mostly because the on/off CR of the Sony was enough of a negative for me compared to the LS10000 and that difference wasn't overcome enough by other things for me.

--Darin
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post #195 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 02:42 PM
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I believe you are bang on. I feel that if Sony had placed even a manual iris in the ES350 we would not be having this debate or an Epson vs Sony thread.

Even if the two projectors were exactly the same, we would still be engaged in a heated debate as to which one should be purchased with the vast majority of posts by those not interested in buying either one.
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post #196 of 218 Old 03-25-2015, 07:55 PM
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Do not forget the full fades to black advantage of the LS10000 - real life is full of these, especially on Friday nights
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post #197 of 218 Old 03-27-2015, 05:33 AM
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ok newbie follow up again.. I have some feed back relating to brightness as looking to put this on a larger screen set up.. 140" diagonal.
the sony 350 can replace bulb and reset the brightness factor.
the ls10000 has an iris that can be adjusted to make it brighter to compensate for the linear loss of light over time.


comments. thanks
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post #198 of 218 Old 03-27-2015, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
ok newbie follow up again.. I have some feed back relating to brightness as looking to put this on a larger screen set up.. 140" diagonal.
the sony 350 can replace bulb and reset the brightness factor.
the ls10000 has an iris that can be adjusted to make it brighter to compensate for the linear loss of light over time.


comments. thanks
What gain and aspect ratio screen?
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post #199 of 218 Old 03-27-2015, 06:26 AM
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We display both projectors and although the Epson provide more functionality, the SONY has amazing 1080P picture let alone a native 4K by far superior to the Epson
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post #200 of 218 Old 03-27-2015, 07:34 AM
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I just want sharks with lasers....
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I just want sharks with lasers....
Sorry, you will likely get them with a laser-phosphor hybrid.
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post #202 of 218 Old 03-27-2015, 03:05 PM
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You guys are being obtuse in an oblique world.
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post #203 of 218 Old 03-27-2015, 09:55 PM
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Have not thought about the screen except that probably a gain of 1.3. As looking to go larger screen. Over 140"
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post #204 of 218 Old 03-28-2015, 05:48 AM
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  • ceilings is 10 feet high.
  • back of room will have row of four theaterchairs at distance of 19 feet- these can be on riser.and can be moved forward.
  • projector can be any where on ceiling 12 feet or as far back as 19.
  • my have three rows of couch chairs bar stoles. closest 14 then 18 then back row
  • basement can be blacked out.. but might havesome light occasionally as rest of basement has pool table ect on other end.
  • primary viewing most likely on couch that isabout 14-16 feet away.
  • room is light controlled only two window wellsto contend with .. blinds no issue.
  • Very limited 3D viewing. most likely not a factor at all. but Iwant to be sure the screen works with 3D.. but 4k upscaling.
  • looking for larger screen 134" or larger
  • would be watching movies in darkenss. televisionmost likely in ambient light.
  • no beams in the path such as ducts ect.
  • sound is open to debate .. start off withstandalone and maybe move up from there.
  • thank you in advance.
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post #205 of 218 Old 03-28-2015, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
  • ceilings is 10 feet high.
  • back of room will have row of four theaterchairs at distance of 19 feet- these can be on riser.and can be moved forward.
  • projector can be any where on ceiling 12 feet or as far back as 19.
  • my have three rows of couch chairs bar stoles. closest 14 then 18 then back row
  • basement can be blacked out.. but might havesome light occasionally as rest of basement has pool table ect on other end.
  • primary viewing most likely on couch that isabout 14-16 feet away.
  • room is light controlled only two window wellsto contend with .. blinds no issue.
  • Very limited 3D viewing. most likely not a factor at all. but Iwant to be sure the screen works with 3D.. but 4k upscaling.
  • looking for larger screen 134" or larger
  • would be watching movies in darkenss. televisionmost likely in ambient light.
  • no beams in the path such as ducts ect.
  • sound is open to debate .. start off withstandalone and maybe move up from there.
  • thank you in advance.
If first row viewing is 14' and second row viewing is 18' and you are using two non-reclining couches or chairs, then you are only going to have about a foot between the two rows. Not enough room to get in and out of second row. If second row viewing is 18', third row viewing can't be 19'. Is the screen a 16:9 screen? Second row will have to be on a riser, if you want to be able to see all of the screen. Have to work out viewing distances, before I can calculate anything. How big is the room.
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post #206 of 218 Old 03-28-2015, 07:45 AM
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I have ability to move viewing distances. Do chairs couches can be moved. Room is 20 deep. 23 wide. Would like largest screen possible.
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post #207 of 218 Old 03-28-2015, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
I have ability to move viewing distances. Do chairs couches can be moved. Room is 20 deep. 23 wide. Would like largest screen possible.
Is screen 16:9?
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post #208 of 218 Old 03-28-2015, 03:27 PM
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screen has not been purchased yet .. going to play around with the unit for a week or so.. use some paint or a DYI screen until final decision. probably doing a 16:9
but open to suggestions
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post #209 of 218 Old 03-28-2015, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
I have ability to move viewing distances. Do chairs couches can be moved. Room is 20 deep. 23 wide. Would like largest screen possible.
20' of depth and three rows of seating, really does not work. Working from the back of the room (non reclining seating) and back row bar seating, then I think this is the minimum spacing needed:

Viewing distance to bar seating, 17'-6". This will be tight, for people to pass behind the seats.
Viewing distance for 2nd row based on 18" deep bar, 14'. This is with the 2nd row against the bar.
Viewing distance for first row, 9'.

It will be crowded with this spacing to get in and out of seats. People often time find it crowded to do two rows in a 20' deep room.
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post #210 of 218 Old 03-28-2015, 04:50 PM
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ok great so where would you suggest two rows of seating.. would like a larger screen if possible.. open to all suggestions assuming the 350es can handle it
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