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post #1 of 35 Old 09-28-2015, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Projector selection.

Hello, I'm building a dedicated theater. I'm going with a projector and hopefully AT screen. The room is 12' wide finished, so I would like to have a screen around 100". However my main row seating is only 8'. I think to accomplish that, I need to go to 4k, to keep a nice image quality. What projectors should I be looking at? Pricing for these is all over. I'm not looking I break the bank, on this, and I'm not looking at $50,000 projectors. More like 6-10k CDN.

I'm in the midst of building my room, and would like to select a projector, calculate its throw distance, so I can continue with the room. It will be a double drywall, channeled room, safe and sound in walls/roof. So sealing it all up is a priority. If I have selected a projector, I can build the mount, and move forward in the room.

What projector should I be considering?


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post #2 of 35 Old 09-28-2015, 05:34 PM
 
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Right now there are only three native 4K consumer home theater projectors out there right now and all three of them are from Sony. The only one in your price range is the Sony VPL-VW300ES. Sony will be releasing an updated version of the 300ES this fall in North America. It should be announced in a few weeks at CEDIA with pricing information coming then, but I doubt they'll be lowering the price considering there isn't any other 4K competition coming from JVC or Epson. There may be a few super high end 3-chip DLP 4K units announced but these will be well out of your price range.

With that said, I think you have a misunderstanding that you "need" to have a 4K projector to have a pleasant viewing experience. In my opinion and from what I've personally seen the current (and upcoming) JVCs will give a noticeably more pleasing overall viewing experience over the 300ES. Resolution does not equal higher picture quality. Case in point would be those cheap Seiki 4K flat panels. 1080p plasma's and nicer IPS/VA FALD TVs give a far better viewing experience. In my opinion the only Sony 4K projector that can beat a JVC is their top of the line 1100ES but that unit is well out of your price range too. The JVCs, however, are not.
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post #3 of 35 Old 09-28-2015, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Projector selection.

I'm basing my need for 4k on walking into various B&M stores in my area (limited) and viewing various 1080 projectors, and standing around 8' away from large screens, and noticing the difference in image quality, from say 10-12'. I don't have places to view many higher end projectors.

Then next major City where I may be able to go view projectors in person, would be 5hrs away. So id like to know what to go looking for, make some calls, and see what I can view first hand.

My currently home panel I regularly view is a Samsung 65" 8550, but I haven't seen anything larger that looks good.


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post #4 of 35 Old 09-28-2015, 05:43 PM
 
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What projectors did you get to see? If you don't know the models, do you know the brands? If you saw current offerings from JVC, Sony, and Epson I think you'd be singing a different tune. I've yet to see a 4K flat panel look better than these units currently offered by these companies. A few OLEDs looked pretty nice but they didn't have anywhere near the aesthetically pleasing experience of immersion that the projectors gave.
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post #5 of 35 Old 09-28-2015, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I have seen an epson, JVC, and Sony. However this was in a local box store, and the people working there couldn't tell me anything about them. I have lost faith in going to my local stores. Which is why I'd like to know what I should be looking at, in my range, and try and line up a trip to the next major city. The local shops are using some pull downs, in showroom lighting. So it is tough to tell how it would perform in a pitch black, dedicated room.

To give you an idea, my local shops are Visions (canadian electronics store), a smaller local shop, best buy, and a small chain canadian company.


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post #6 of 35 Old 09-28-2015, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree with projector over panel. Or I would just move my 8550, or get something else, and put that in there.


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post #7 of 35 Old 09-28-2015, 05:53 PM
 
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The units you should be looking at are the Epson LS10000, JVC DLA-RS57 or DLA-X700 (both are the same unit) or the Sony VPL-VW300ES. These are the best units in your price range. For a DLP projector, your best bet would be a Runco LS-5, but I think these first three units offer better image quality. Depending on the dealer, you might be able to score a Sony VPL-VW600ES within your price range and this would be far better off than the 300ES because it has much better contrast performance. The 600ES is a 4K unit so for your wants it may be the best choice.

Call around and see if some of these units are on display within your driving range. Though as mentioned previously Sony (and JVC) are coming out with new units within the next two months so it might be worth it to wait a bit to see what these new units have to offer over the current generation ones.

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post #8 of 35 Old 09-28-2015, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Anything else I should look at in the 1080 realm? I won't have 4k media, but I haven't seen 100"+ look clear at 8', but I have limited viewing samples.


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post #9 of 35 Old 09-29-2015, 06:04 AM
 
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Anything else I should look at in the 1080 realm? I won't have 4k media, but I haven't seen 100"+ look clear at 8', but I have limited viewing samples.


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Currently, within your budget, these are the best 1080p projectors out there. I haven't seen or owned another 1080p projector that bested the Epson LS10000 and JVC and I've owned just about every unit worth owning (check the link in my signature). The 1100ES is nicer in some areas over the Epson but again is way out of your price range. If I were in your shoes I'd be interested in the upcoming JVC units that will be announced in a few weeks.
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Quote:
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Anything else I should look at in the 1080 realm? I won't have 4k media, but I haven't seen 100"+ look clear at 8', but I have limited viewing samples.


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Are you ready now for a projector or can you wait for the new models to come out in November and December?
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post #11 of 35 Old 09-29-2015, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I can wait. However I'm trying to get the room drywall done, to minimize future dust after basement development is complete. So knowing the projector I will buy, and it's throw is my main concern. So I can install and soundproof its mount


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I can wait. However I'm trying to get the room drywall done, to minimize future dust after basement development is complete. So knowing the projector I will buy, and it's throw is my main concern. So I can install and soundproof its mount


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If you can wait, then I would get on the preorder list for a new JVC. An X7000 on your size screen would probably do a good job with HDR.
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If you can wait, then I would get on the preorder list for a new JVC. An X7000 on your size screen would probably do a good job with HDR.
Mike, is there a pre-order special price?
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Mike, is there a pre-order special price?

Nobody knows specific pricing until Cedia.
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Nobody knows specific pricing until Cedia.
That's not really what I was asking. I was asking if there was a pricing incentive in ordering early. Normally there's a CEDIA special price, right? Is that still a possibility?
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That's not really what I was asking. I was asking if there was a pricing incentive in ordering early. Normally there's a CEDIA special price, right? Is that still a possibility?
Yes. I sent you an email.

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post #17 of 35 Old 09-30-2015, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Pre-order list and pricing?


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Pre-order list and pricing?


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I think the currently 2nd thread on the 2nd page needs to be bumped.
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My situation is very similar to yours, we sit 10 feet from the screen that is about 95" diagonal with a JVC RS46 (1080p no eshift) and the image very very nice and very "theater" like.
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post #22 of 35 Old 09-30-2015, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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My biggest issue is I go to the local box stores, and audio video stores, and I get someone who sells car stereos, or TVs, doesn't know what I'm actually talking about when I ask specific questions, and shows me a projector (usually 3-4 pointed at one screen). They flip through them, ask about one of the projectors, they tell me it's last years model, or a lower model, and I should get this one or that one. They pull it up on their website, and show me the stock image of the unit. I'm getting too old to deal with that. But I live in an oilfield town, and customer service flat out sucks, no one cares.


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My biggest issue is I go to the local box stores, and audio video stores, and I get someone who sells car stereos, or TVs, doesn't know what I'm actually talking about when I ask specific questions, and shows me a projector (usually 3-4 pointed at one screen). They flip through them, ask about one of the projectors, they tell me it's last years model, or a lower model, and I should get this one or that one. They pull it up on their website, and show me the stock image of the unit. I'm getting too old to deal with that. But I live in an oilfield town, and customer service flat out sucks, no one cares.


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Unfortunately it's been that way ever since I got into projectors and home theater back in 2002. Hasn't really changed. That's why fellow home theater geeks here and the forum can be valuable.
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post #24 of 35 Old 09-30-2015, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, it's frustrating. I went in to look for in wall speakers, and a receiver, and asked for an atmos 7.2.4 setup. The kid pretended he knew what I meant, but it was very clear he was lost. He just wanted me to use all 8" round vanishing series speakers everywhere, and couldnt tell me what receiver would support it, till he called his Yami rep, and he suggested the 3050. Yeah, pretty much sour from one trip. It's painful.


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post #25 of 35 Old 09-30-2015, 01:28 PM
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This past Saturday I went into the 'local' (20 miles away) HT store in Colorado Springs. They have a theater room with 3 large screens, I think around 130" diagonal each, and had: Sony VPL-VW600ES ($15,000), Epson Pro Cinema LS10000 and another 1080p projector.

Since we are moving and will be building a new HT, we are looking at the 4k projectors also.

The Epson was not impressive at all when compared right next to the Sony, playing the same movie, How to Train Your Dragon. Sony was bright, colors were vivid and crisp. It almost seemed 'real'. The Epson was dull, muted, colors were 'lifeless'.

The New Magnolia Design Center in Cos Spgs has a Sony and JVC in the same room, showing on an 8' diag screen, I think. While the Sony still wins, the JVC is a contender.

Right now the JVC DLA X500R can be found on Amazon for under $4,000. It is on our short list. The Sony VPL-VW350ES at $8,000 is the other we are looking at, pretty much the same thing as the VPL-VW600ES except lacking some features. But the picture is still awesome.

JVC is not a 'true' 4k projector as it uses eShift to simulate a 4k image, but still a VERY good picture and noticeably better than most 1080p projectors I have seen.

If I could find a Sony VPL-VW600ES for $8,000 I would be all over it, but $15,000 is not happening. Especially if I want to spend $13,500 for a pair of B&W 802D2 Diamonds.

Jerry

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post #26 of 35 Old 09-30-2015, 02:26 PM
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Yeah, it's frustrating. I went in to look for in wall speakers, and a receiver, and asked for an atmos 7.2.4 setup. The kid pretended he knew what I meant, but it was very clear he was lost. He just wanted me to use all 8" round vanishing series speakers everywhere, and couldnt tell me what receiver would support it, till he called his Yami rep, and he suggested the 3050. Yeah, pretty much sour from one trip. It's painful.


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We are happy to help. Craig and I have both been into this for years. I run an Atmos system 5.1.4 (six subs).
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post #27 of 35 Old 09-30-2015, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I'm prepping for atmos for sure. Hope to run it. Just trying to set a realistic budget on things. And since I'm trying to keep the base reasonable, to keep the room fairly sound proof, I think I'll do 1 or two subs, running low, and buttkickers to help the experience. If no one is home, turn it up lol.


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post #28 of 35 Old 10-01-2015, 05:12 AM
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The Epson was not impressive at all when compared right next to the Sony, playing the same movie, How to Train Your Dragon. Sony was bright, colors were vivid and crisp. It almost seemed 'real'. The Epson was dull, muted, colors were 'lifeless'.
Be careful with comparisons like that, the Sony is quite a bit brighter which will significantly bias things, and may lead to incorrect conclusions.

Just as an example the JVC has significantly higher contrast (static and dynamic) than the Sony, especially the VW350, but it's not as bright. However if your planned screen is not too large the brightness advantage of the Sony is significantly reduced and you may get a much better overall result with the JVC. I suspect that was the main issue with the Epson, vs the Sony, the Epson isn't as bright so if you put it up next to the much brighter Sony it will necessarily look dull in comparison, even if on it's own it would look great.

Side by side comparisons can be useful but you have to understand what your looking at, and also understand what your own system's requirements are and how the two relate. I'm not trying to start another "brightness matching" debate, but if your screen is not the same size or gain as the demo room, then what you saw is not directly applicable to your own HT.

Our perception of white and everything else is largely relative:

A and B are actually the same shade.

http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/ade..._illusion.html
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Be careful with comparisons like that, the Sony is quite a bit brighter which will significantly bias things, and may lead to incorrect conclusions.

Just as an example the JVC has significantly higher contrast (static and dynamic) than the Sony, especially the VW350, but it's not as bright. However if your planned screen is not too large the brightness advantage of the Sony is significantly reduced and you may get a much better overall result with the JVC. I suspect that was the main issue with the Epson, vs the Sony, the Epson isn't as bright so if you put it up next to the much brighter Sony it will necessarily look dull in comparison, even if on it's own it would look great.

Side by side comparisons can be useful but you have to understand what your looking at, and also understand what your own system's requirements are and how the two relate. I'm not trying to start another "brightness matching" debate, but if your screen is not the same size or gain as the demo room, then what you saw is not directly applicable to your own HT.

Our perception of white and everything else is largely relative:

A and B are actually the same shade.

http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/ade..._illusion.html
Agreed and understand.

We have had two projectors thus far: Yamaha LPX-510 from 2005-2014 (lamp died on SuperBowl Sunday, 4 hours before kickoff); Epson 3020 (got installed 45 minutes before kickoff of SB 2014). Only PJ available on SuperBowl Sunday, demo model off the ceiling at Listen Up in Colorado Springs. Our current screen is 125" diag so not much smaller than the demo room screens.

Even though the Yamaha was only capable of 1080i and it was 9 years older, its picture was superior to the Epson by a fair bit, easy to see. Still have the Yamaha in the basement storage room, just need a new lamp.

The Epson LS10000 I saw was not only muted, dull and 'lifeless', but image was not nearly as crisp as the Sony. I'm sure there could be some tweaking of the parameters, an ideally matched screen would help and you are exactly right, if the Epson were seen alone in a room, it would most likely fair well. But I think the 4k Enhancement that Epson is using is well behind the JVC e-Shift, from what I have seen.

Also, I'm no HT tech geek (not meant offensively) with all the numbers and quantifiers. I just know what I like when I see it. It's difficult to come away with a positive view of the Epson when viewed next to the Sony.

Jerry

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post #30 of 35 Old 10-01-2015, 06:55 AM
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Agreed and understand.

We have had two projectors thus far: Yamaha LPX-510 from 2005-2014 (lamp died on SuperBowl Sunday, 4 hours before kickoff); Epson 3020 (got installed 45 minutes before kickoff of SB 2014). Only PJ available on SuperBowl Sunday, demo model off the ceiling at Listen Up in Colorado Springs. Our current screen is 125" diag so not much smaller than the demo room screens.

Even though the Yamaha was only capable of 1080i and it was 9 years older, its picture was superior to the Epson by a fair bit, easy to see. Still have the Yamaha in the basement storage room, just need a new lamp.

The Epson LS10000 I saw was not only muted, dull and 'lifeless', but image was not nearly as crisp as the Sony. I'm sure there could be some tweaking of the parameters, an ideally matched screen would help and you are exactly right, if the Epson were seen alone in a room, it would most likely fair well. But I think the 4k Enhancement that Epson is using is well behind the JVC e-Shift, from what I have seen.

Also, I'm no HT tech geek (not meant offensively) with all the numbers and quantifiers. I just know what I like when I see it. It's difficult to come away with a positive view of the Epson when viewed next to the Sony.
What is your screen? Trying to determine the actual gain. Also I assume you are talking about 125" diagonal 16:9 screen?
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