Vivitek H9090 1080p 1,000 lumens LED DLP Owner's Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 42 Old 10-19-2015, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Vivitek H9090 1080p 1,000 lumens LED DLP Owner's Thread

Haven't seen any talk about this yet. Was Vivitek not at CEDIA?

Art's daughter, Lori, posted this for him right around the beginning of CEDIA. So it may have got lost in the media mayhem.

Looks interesting but seems to be geared to a very narrow installer market.

-$10k MSRP
-20k hour Lamp Life
-1k lumens OOTB (measured but using Brilliant Color, 800 w/ BC off)
-No Low Lamp mode
-No 3D
-No CFI
-Manual Lens (Though there are options for 4 different types of Lenses)
-Horizontal/Vertical Lens Shift
-No Dynamic Iris (Uses LED Lamp Dimming)
-No ability to handle 4K content
-5 Year Warranty

Is this too little too late for an LED DLP in the >$3k market?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/vivi...jector-review/
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post #2 of 42 Old 10-19-2015, 02:03 PM
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With that long list of great features - there will be standing room only to purchase one.

Someone has lost their mind if they are going to try and sell this for 10K. I bet it ends up no brighter after a cal than my $800 LG LF 1500 LED.
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post #3 of 42 Old 10-19-2015, 02:29 PM
 
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I'm pretty sure I called it that the unit Art was referring to was a Vivitek.

With this kind of lumen output, this Vivitek has now reached the performance of the PD8150 possibly even better especially when you consider there's really no chance for RBE. Looks to be an updated H9080FD with an increase in lumen output. PQ is very good for a DLP based unit and would still be competitive with the Sony 1080p models, but obviously is going to cost more. The 9080FD was also one of the most well built and quiet units I had the pleasure of owning. I had an issue with one of these units and I'll say Vivitek's customer service is top notch. The best I've ever dealt with. The warranty actually means something with these units. They sent me two loaners (first a 5085 and then an H9080FD because the repair was taking longer than expected).

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post #4 of 42 Old 10-19-2015, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
With that long list of great features - there will be standing room only to purchase one.

Someone has lost their mind if they are going to try and sell this for 10K. I bet it ends up no brighter after a cal than my $800 LG LF 1500 LED.
Lol
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post #5 of 42 Old 10-22-2015, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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S&V had a small piece about it and 2 other models but really didn't say anything.

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...TVe5AW4EZB2.97

Did anyone visit the Vivitek booth and can expand on these offerings?
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post #6 of 42 Old 10-22-2015, 02:19 PM
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I saw a Vivitek in Draper's booth at CEDIA that looked pretty good. Anyone know what model that might have been? It had a white cabinet.
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post #7 of 42 Old 10-23-2015, 01:30 PM
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No 3D

Edit: I pretty much never use it but I like to have the option, and am finding weird that it's missing in a $10K projector
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post #8 of 42 Old 10-23-2015, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_o_p View Post
No 3D

Edit: I pretty much never use it but I like to have the option, and am finding weird that it's missing in a $10K projector
agreed... interesting that no DI as well... is this the norm now for LED DLPs, or simply a cost/complexity saving or tradeoff? A manual DI setting was always advertised as reducing scattered light through the lens and increasing contrast as a result. On one hand, you'd expect they would want every PQ advantage they could get if selling a single-chip DLP for $10k, on the other hand, if contrast was what one was really interested in at that price point, they'd be going lcos anyway. interesting design choices.
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post #9 of 42 Old 10-23-2015, 02:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post
agreed... interesting that no DI as well... is this the norm now for LED DLPs, or simply a cost/complexity saving or tradeoff? A manual DI setting was always advertised as reducing scattered light through the lens and increasing contrast as a result. On one hand, you'd expect they would want every PQ advantage they could get if selling a single-chip DLP for $10k, on the other hand, if contrast was what one was really interested in at that price point, they'd be going lcos anyway. interesting design choices.
While it lacks a physical dynamic iris, it does offer the same thing through dynamic LED dimming. The effect is the exact same thing. In fact, I would imagine using LED dimming would increase ANSI contrast (compared to a lens iris) as there's less for the light source to bounce off of to reflect back on the DMD thus scattering light over it's surface and reducing ANSI contrast.
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post #10 of 42 Old 10-23-2015, 03:06 PM
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@seegs... That would hold for low lamp as well, but, IIRC, some of the earlier DLPs showed better contrast on low lamp and manual iris clamped down (e.g infocus INxx models). Maybe there is a point of diminishing returns where DI issues outweigh a nominal contrast improvement?
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post #11 of 42 Old 10-23-2015, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_o_p View Post
No 3D

Edit: I pretty much never use it but I like to have the option, and am finding weird that it's missing in a $10K projector
There's more than that missing from this projector. This is a real head scratcher trying to figure out who the target audience is for this model.

The reason they left out 3D is because none of these LED projectors can put out enough light to produce a satisfying 3D image. Optoma tried it with the HD91 and ended up with ~400 lumens in 3D, not even enough for an HP screen.
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post #12 of 42 Old 01-12-2016, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Art posted a video review.

He says he measured over 1000 lumens.

This thing is one ugly looking beast. More commercial grade than home cinema.

You have to use a hex wrench to adjust the lens shift.

Seems as it's only sold through authorized dealers, it's mostly geared for them to install it too.

Edit: I should note that Art said he got a pre-production unit and it wasn't calibrated because Vivitek informed him the color tables weren't finalized yet. So it could still very well measure below the claimed 1000 lumens.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/vivi...-video-summary

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post #13 of 42 Old 01-13-2016, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Art posted a video review.

He says he measured over 1000 lumens.

This thing is one ugly looking beast. More commercial grade than home cinema.

You have to use a hex wrench to adjust the lens shift.

Seems as it's only sold through authorized dealers, it's mostly geared for them to install it too.

Edit: I should note that Art said he got a pre-production unit and it wasn't calibrated because Vivitek informed him the color tables weren't finalized yet. So it could still very well measure below the claimed 1000 lumens.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/vivi...-video-summary
Looks a lot like a DPI Cine 1000 LED to me.
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post #14 of 42 Old 04-22-2016, 09:28 AM
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At what price point do you guys think one of these would sell to compete against current offerings? If the lag is low, it would make a great gaming projector.
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post #15 of 42 Old 04-22-2016, 09:42 AM
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By now for $10K 4K should be the norm.
Monoprice had a Sony 4K offering for $4.5K.
1080p at this price, nope, not for me at all!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manamb View Post
By now for $10K 4K should be the norm.
Monoprice had a Sony 4K offering for $4.5K.
1080p at this price, nope, not for me at all!
It was a couple previous generation (aka discontinued) 300ES units. That's not a normal price on a current Sony 4K model nor will it be for the forseeable future. The PQ this Vivitek unit has is the pinnacle of 1080p single chip DLP. I don't think the picture is worth it's asking price, but it's still up there with the best images in front projection at the moment.
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post #17 of 42 Old 04-22-2016, 12:37 PM
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My question was not, if they are worth the 10K. My question is what do you think these are worth in the market today.
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post #18 of 42 Old 04-22-2016, 02:00 PM
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Like some who had similar projectors, I think $4000 max but I wouldn't purchase one for over $2000. Knowing that you can get a JVC that will give you a much better image for $2500 to $4000, it's hard to justified this projector being in that price range. When I sold my DPI LED, I got $1000 more than what I paid for it, so there are people out there willing to pay $5000 for a LED DLP. Personally, I will feel robbed watching anything BD quality or more on a low contrast projector. Which was the reason I sold mines.
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post #19 of 42 Old 07-25-2016, 06:29 AM
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Yup, this compares to the Epson 5030UB. It needs to be in the same price range.

I'm there when it's 2K.

For 10K I'd rather have an RS600 and a 1K DLP for gaming.
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post #20 of 42 Old 07-25-2016, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TheronB View Post
Yup, this compares to the Epson 5030UB. It needs to be in the same price range.

I'm there when it's 2K.

For 10K I'd rather have an RS600 and a 1K DLP for gaming.
This type of projector will never be 2K with its superb build quality and lens. $2k is Optoma/BenQ territory.

Thought the native CR is not great compared to LCOS, it has decent dynamic CR and an LED light engine. One of the better DLP projectors you can buy under $10k. Not saying it is worth $10k, but also definitely worth more than $2k.
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post #21 of 42 Old 07-25-2016, 09:16 AM
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a review from earlier in the year

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/v...jector-review/

they measured native at 1361:1 and dynamic @ ~15K with the usual dynamic black mode set to 8x.

Native on my .95 DC4 Planar is ~3.5K:1 and similar dynamic.


who is the target audience in 2016 with HDMI 1.3, no 3D, no UHD / HDR for $10,000?

Folks can get nearly identical image quality by picking up a $1500 Runco LS-3 or LS-5 / Planar 8130 / 8150 and the OEM lamps are less than $100 these days.
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post #22 of 42 Old 07-25-2016, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
a review from earlier in the year

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/v...jector-review/

they measured native at 1361:1 and dynamic @ ~15K with the usual dynamic black mode set to 8x.

Native on my .95 DC4 Planar is ~3.5K:1 and similar dynamic.


who is the target audience in 2016 with HDMI 1.3, no 3D, no UHD / HDR for $10,000?

Folks can get nearly identical image quality by picking up a $1500 Runco LS-3 or LS-5 / Planar 8130 / 8150 and the OEM lamps are less than $100 these days.
Couple of reasons this is better than the Runco:
1. It's new and has a 5yr warranty, instead of used and no warranty.
2. It has an LED light engine, meaning RBE is basically eliminated unlike the Runco. Additionally, calibration will not drift. Set it and forget it, no lamp changes.
3. It is significantly quieter than the Runco.
4. 1000 lumens is not really enough for decent 3D, so this is a bit irrelevant. But I believe it does have a bit more lumens for 2D than the Runco.

Also:
1. Not everyone cares about 4k/HDR yet since most 4k projectors offer a limited or incomplete featureset for UHD, plus the amount of UHD content is miniscule compared to the amount of 1080p content.
2. I don't think it's worth $10,000 - but definitely worth more than $2000.
3. If someone wants a DLP projector, I can't think of a better in-production or on the horizon DLP projector under $10k currently available.

The one data point I've been struggling to find is if the production models have improved the LED dimming routines at all from the pre-production models. From what I read the 4x mode was smooth in pre-production but the 8x mode was a bit rough, though apparently feedback was given to improve 8x for production models. Still, it may be a hardware limitation of the PT-120 LEDs.

Last edited by Ruined; 07-25-2016 at 09:50 AM.
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post #23 of 42 Old 07-25-2016, 09:56 AM
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Couple of reasons this is better than the Runco:
1. It's new and has a 5yr warranty, instead of used and no warranty.
You could buy about 5 Runcos/Planars for the cost of one new Vivitek.

Quote:
2. It has an LED light engine, meaning RBE is basically eliminated unlike the Runco. Additionally, calibration will not drift. Set it and forget it, no lamp changes.
Every time I've measured my Planar 8150 it measures essentially identical, except for brightness.

Quote:
2. I don't think it's worth $10,000 - but definitely worth more than $2000.
At much over $2000 it's a really tough sell for me. You're right in there with the RS400 at that point an the JVC is twice as bright with 10x the contrast.

Quote:
3. If someone wants a DLP projector, I can't think of a better in-production or on the horizon DLP projector under $10k currently available.
But that extra $8k doesn't get you a lot.
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post #24 of 42 Old 07-25-2016, 10:09 AM
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At much over $2000 it's a really tough sell for me. You're right in there with the RS400 at that point an the JVC is twice as bright with 10x the contrast.
Assuming you were able to get at same pricepoint as RS400, consider also:
Vivitek 16.5ms input lag vs JVC has 140ms input lag
Vivitek has better motion resolution due to nature of technology
Vivitek likely sharper with most content due to single chip/no convergence errors
Vivitek has LED light engine vs lamp on JVC

So there are definitely some advantages to go along with the disadvantages...

Better competition/comparison in RS400 pricerange is probably Epson LS9600e since you are then comparing two laser/led PJs.
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post #25 of 42 Old 07-25-2016, 11:10 AM
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As I said, Lag is the only reason I still have my Planar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Vivitek has better motion resolution due to nature of technology
Vivitek likely sharper with most content due to single chip/no convergence errors
Between my RS4910 and my Planar 8150 (stacked in my HT), I haven not noticed any practical difference between the two in these areas. The Planar may be sharper on a desktop, but in real-world content (even games) a difference is non-existant.

Quote:
Vivitek has LED light engine vs lamp on JVC
When companies stop asking a 100% price premium for LED/Laser I'll be interested. In the mean time, I can buy a lot of lamps for the thousands of dollars they want for their LEDs.

Quote:
Better competition/comparison in RS400 pricerange is probably Epson LS9600e since you are then comparing two laser/led PJs.
The LS9600 and LS10000 are overpriced too IMO. I'd pay $1000, maybe $2000 for LED/Laser, but not the $4000+ everyone seems to want.

For the price of the Vivitek you can probably get an RS600, or if you game, you could get an RS500 and a used Planar/Runco and have the best of both worlds.
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post #26 of 42 Old 07-26-2017, 07:59 AM
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Anyone know if Vivitek ever released a firmware to fix the poor LED dimming routines in this projector? I don't see any mention of it on the website. If they didn't, too bad. What a missed opportunity.
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post #27 of 42 Old 11-22-2017, 04:58 AM
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Vivitek H9090 long term use impressions

Hi all,
So, many of us are buying "transition" projectors that will hold us over until projectors that better tap the 4k spec are available at a reasonable price, with solid state light source, 4K UHD resolution, 3D, HDR10, 2500+ lumens, and 95%+ DCI-P3 coverage. There is basically nothing under $10k that does all of this.

So, for my transition projector I (re)purchased the Vivitek H9090. I originally bought this unit and returned it within the 4hr test period due to some significant artifacts I discovered with the Dynamic Black mechanism, even at 4x setting (the lowest). However, with the extremely low price AVSCIENCE has now (a large amount less than what I originally paid for it the first time, actually the price I paid does not fit this subforum ), it was a no brainer as I very much needed a solid state projector immediately for reasons I won't get into.

So here are my impressions; I am not going to get into measurements, calibrations, etc - Art Feierman's projector reviews review does all of that much more comprehensively with this model than I have the time to do if you want to check it out. But below I will detail my subjective impressions after using the unit frequently for a couple of months.

1. THE LIGHT SOURCE

I cannot express how joyous it is to not have to worry about a projector bulb. No worry about lamp strikes, fear of whether you left the projector on, checking of bulb hours, or measurements/remeasurements of brightness to see if you have to redo your settings to make up for the lamp dimming, and no messes to clean up since there is no chance of bulb explosion. ...Ever turned off the projector but wanted to turn it back on to check a setting quickly, but didn't want the lamp strike? Well guess what, no worries anymore with solid state just turn it on as no lamp! I left the projector on for around 36 hours the other day - who cares! Its very nice not to be tied down to bulb life. The LED light source also exhibits beautiful color for Blu-ray in rec709 mode and could potentially be used for bt2020 with the right equipment in native mode (I haven't tried the latter yet due to lack of time). Startup times are like 15-20 seconds and shutdown is near instantaneous - no need to run this on a UPS to protect the bulb in power outages like a lamp projector. Projector puts out around 800 lumens calibrated, which works great for SDR on my 119" 0.9 gain screen in fully darkened room.

2. THE LENS

The lens on the H9090 is top notch. While not perfect, the chromatic aberration on a 1 pixel white grid is extremely low. Sharpness and color is killer with this projector - my cousin was over watching "Gatsby" and within 3 or 4 minutes said "This is a 4k projector, right?" It is so sharp and colorful, it fooled my cousin into thinking he was watching 4K HDR. Gatsby is actually a great demo piece for this projector; it fully exposes its sharpness and beautiful color rendering. Add a 0.95" DC3 DMD into the mix and things get even sharper. There also is a generous amount of lens shift which helps with placement.

3. RAINBOW EFFECT

I have watched many movies, played many games, etc. Rainbow effect is essentially nonexistent on this projector. While RBE doesn't bother me with typical 4x RGBRGB wheels I can see it. This projector's LED cycling speed is approximately 18x, so even for things that would typically generate RBE like high contrast white on black, you really don't see it here.

4. NOISE

Extremely quiet, just a very low hum of the fans (25db at max power). Remains extremely quiet for 5-6 hours of continuous use. Ramps up a bit after its been on for over 6 hours, but then will settle down a little after cooled.

5. BLACK LEVELS and DYNAMIC BLACK

Like most DLP projectors, black levels without dynamic black are not spectacular. However, with Dynamic Black at 4x the black levels are very convincing. Sadly, there are instances where you will notice brightness pumping and stepping; usually this happens when there is a instant back-and-forth between dark and bright scenes that the projector needs to dramatically alter the LED levels back and forth. An example of this is in THE DARK KNIGHT where Harvey Dent and Rachel are tied up in the warehouses and Batman has to choose one of the two to save. When Harvey and Rachel are communicating back and forth, Rachel is in a dark room and Harvey a super bright room. You can see some "steps" and pumping here. Another example I noticed an artifact was the credits of Blade Runner; since blade runner uses a dim red font for the credits, at one point the dynamic dimming engaged and brought down the peak level due to a very short name - this was noticeable as it deviated in brightness from the previous credit. Despite these examples, these artifacts do not occur for every movie and when they do occur its usually only 1 or 2 instances per entire movie. For black and white movies, you also will get better accuracy with dynamic black disabled. It is the one and only weak spot I see of this projector, but it is something I can live with given the new price and the projectors other great benefits. Despite the artifact here or there, I leave this enabled at 4x due to how great it works 95% of the time.

6. MOTION

Motion is spectacular with this projector. Smooth and natural at 24p, with its Gennum processing. Fast action also remains sharp and detailed, such as when watching sports.

7. 3D, HDR, 4K, FI

It has none of these. IMO 24p/30p/60p are so smooth natively it doesn't need FI.

8. GAMING

This projector also excels at gaming with its 16ms input lag time. This is essentially 1 frame lag at 60fps, can't ask for much better than this. Great for competitive FPS games.

9. BUILD QUALITY

Built like a tank, literally. Full aluminum enclosure looks like it could be run over by a car and still work just fine. Lens looks and feels like a professional piece of equipment.

10. OVERALL

I am extremely satisfied with the projector at its current price point and this gives me some time to sit and watch the prices drop and features build in the 4K solid state market. I can reap the benefits of solid state projection right now without spending a lot of money or having to buy used - note that the H9090 comes with a 5yr warranty! While I can see this projector not being for everyone, for someone who wants a transition projector where solid state as a priority, but doesn't want to buy used this is a great deal!

I suspect my "transition" period might be quite a while as after using this projector for some time I am extremely satisfied, moreso than I thought I would be based on my initial 4hr demo. This is great as it gives me time to watch the 4k prices fall and features rise while I enjoy my current pj. While it has some weaknesses, as an entire package for its current price it is hard to beat.

Last edited by Ruined; 11-22-2017 at 05:54 PM.
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post #28 of 42 Old 12-08-2017, 02:02 PM
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Thanks for your review. I also read projectorreviews.com and Art is also has many positives to say about this projector. Do you think this will be bright enough for 180" 2:35 screen in a fully dark room? can you pm me what it's selling for right now. I tried google and couldn't find anything or even on ebay. thanks
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post #29 of 42 Old 12-08-2017, 03:31 PM
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Nice write-up.

All the reports point to it as a great projector. It originally listed for close to $10K.
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post #30 of 42 Old 12-08-2017, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Nice write-up.

All the reports point to it as a great projector. It originally listed for close to $10K.
Yep and I know where you can get one for below cost.
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