JVC DLA-X550R / DLA-RS400 Speculation Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 561 Old 11-14-2015, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razevents View Post
Ok. I have a question, it's probably going to be elementary for you guys but help
Me out:

Will this projector present 4K quality picture as a native 4K unit or 1080? The panels are 1080 so I'm a bit baffled.

Thanks and appreciate your patience with my question.


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This will explain JVC e-shift
http://alienryderflex.com/e-shift/
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post #122 of 561 Old 11-14-2015, 06:24 PM
 
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Thanks Rich. Interesting. Similar to interlacing. It seems it cuts off about 200 lines horizontally (3900 to 4100) due to its doubling. It would be great to see a side by side of this vs a native LED flat panel or the Sony. My guess is it is probably very very close.

I also found one other thing interesting. It states the fastest refresh of any content is 60hz. That's how it uses its 120 to in essence double the pixels. So are the new 4K cameras (Sony has them out for movie houses) 60hz? What then is the big attraction to a 240hz flat panel display if native content maxes out at 60hz?

Anyway thanks for the info.

If anyone has viewed yours or a demo next to a native 4K display of any kind please provide your feedback on differences? Speaking only of resolution not contrast etc.


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post #123 of 561 Old 11-14-2015, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razevents View Post
Thanks Rich. Interesting. Similar to interlacing. It seems it cuts off about 200 lines horizontally (3900 to 4100) due to its doubling. It would be great to see a side by side of this vs a native LED flat panel or the Sony. My guess is it is probably very very close.

I also found one other thing interesting. It states the fastest refresh of any content is 60hz. That's how it uses its 120 to in essence double the pixels. So are the new 4K cameras (Sony has them out for movie houses) 60hz? What then is the big attraction to a 240hz flat panel display if native content maxes out at 60hz?

Anyway thanks for the info.

If anyone has viewed yours or a demo next to a native 4K display of any kind please provide your feedback on differences? Speaking only of resolution not contrast etc.


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I have viewed both side by side. A true 4K projector does have an advantage in resolution, but it is closer than many people think.
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post #124 of 561 Old 11-14-2015, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
[
I have viewed both side by side. A true 4K projector does have an advantage in resolution, but it is closer than many people think.
I assume that was the e-shift models released last year or the year before. Based on the information so far it sounds like things might be even closer now given the same sources.

On the other hand, if we get even better 4K sources that could swing things toward the true 4K model since the detail has to be present in the source to really bring it out.

Will be interesting to see how things go soon and then with UHD Blu-ray.

With HDR the extra sequential CR may help the perception of resolution in some cases too.

--Darin
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post #125 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Hi Mike, any word on if the banding issue with CMD has been resolved with the new models? Thx
Can Mike or anyone else comment on my above question? Have there been any reports on CMD banding being fixed, or we don't know yet? Thanks
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post #126 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
I assume that was the e-shift models released last year or the year before. Based on the information so far it sounds like things might be even closer now given the same sources.

On the other hand, if we get even better 4K sources that could swing things toward the true 4K model since the detail has to be present in the source to really bring it out.

Will be interesting to see how things go soon and then with UHD Blu-ray.

With HDR the extra sequential CR may help the perception of resolution in some cases too.

--Darin
Not saying that E-shift is the way to go vs a 4K projector that equals the JVC in it's other aspects and features. Just that the JVC overall can compete right now.
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post #127 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Can Mike or anyone else comment on my above question? Have there been any reports on CMD banding being fixed, or we don't know yet? Thanks
Don't know yet. Did not see any banding, but also did not get to pick the source material. Anyway, once we get 4K sources with higher bit rates, then it should not be a problem anyway.
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post #128 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 06:33 AM
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I think Toe was referring to the vertical bands seen when using clear motion drive. That's not the same type of "banding" seen depending on bit depth, correct?
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post #129 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 07:12 AM
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Edit:double post
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post #130 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Don't know yet. Did not see any banding, but also did not get to pick the source material. Anyway, once we get 4K sources with higher bit rates, then it should not be a problem anyway.
Thanks Mike, but as the poster above mentions, I am asking about the banding that plagued the last generation when using CMD. Do we know if this is fixed with the new models?
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post #131 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Thanks Mike, but as the poster above mentions, I am asking about the banding that plagued the last generation when using CMD. Do we know if this is fixed with the new models?
Todd, this was mentioned from some observers at a recent Cine4home event. I'm assuming they are referring to the banding

The strips of the "old" generation by activating the FI are seen much less and could even be reduced with the help of anti-aliasing to an almost invisible minimum.
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post #132 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 05:08 PM
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In the market for a new projector. My room is finally done.

I'd narrowed it down to the Sony HW55ES, but now I'm doubled-minded.

Should I stick with the 55 or go for the 65? Or should I completely scrap the Sony and go for the RS400?

This will be a completely dark room, seating about 12 feet from a 120" screen. Will only be watching movies and perhaps a football or basketball game from time to time. No gaming.

Thanks in advance.
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post #133 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slateef View Post
In the market for a new projector. My room is finally done.

I'd narrowed it down to the Sony HW55ES, but now I'm doubled-minded.

Should I stick with the 55 or go for the 65? Or should I completely scrap the Sony and go for the RS400?

This will be a completely dark room, seating about 12 feet from a 120" screen. Will only be watching movies and perhaps a football or basketball game from time to time. No gaming.

Thanks in advance.
Sent you a PM.
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post #134 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slateef View Post
In the market for a new projector. My room is finally done.

I'd narrowed it down to the Sony HW55ES, but now I'm doubled-minded.

Should I stick with the 55 or go for the 65? Or should I completely scrap the Sony and go for the RS400?

This will be a completely dark room, seating about 12 feet from a 120" screen. Will only be watching movies and perhaps a football or basketball game from time to time. No gaming.

Thanks in advance.
I had narrowed down to the 55 as well. But I really knew that the implications of HDCP2.2 were likely going to force another pj purchase just shortly down the road. I'm an MSEE who has written and developed a lot of encryption and decoding SW as well as HW design. It's a much bigger deal than most people think. I'll spare you the detail, but if you are making a major purchase..make damn sure it's 2.2 compliant.

I didn't want to go with a 55 and a year or two later have to buy yet another pj. The other alternative was to rely on some untested 1.4 to 2.2 conversion box for several hundred dollars. I say this not from a 4k perspective, but from an Atmos perspective. Most Atmos movies are going to be released on UHD BD and Vudu is only streaming Atmos with UHD purchases. Numerous studios have issued press releases stating Atmos will only be available on their movies once UHD is released. Other cable providers and streaming companies have indicated the same. I didn't want to lose my Atmos setup because one device in my system was not HDCP 2.2 compliant. So, It just made more sense to me to go with the RS400.....so I called Mike. It's a little more money than the 55ES, has pseudo-4k but most importantly give you the 2.2 compliancy.
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post #135 of 561 Old 11-15-2015, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slateef View Post
In the market for a new projector. My room is finally done.

I'd narrowed it down to the Sony HW55ES, but now I'm doubled-minded.

Should I stick with the 55 or go for the 65? Or should I completely scrap the Sony and go for the RS400?

This will be a completely dark room, seating about 12 feet from a 120" screen. Will only be watching movies and perhaps a football or basketball game from time to time. No gaming.

Thanks in advance.
The RS400 will be a far better option.
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post #136 of 561 Old 11-16-2015, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
The RS400 will be a far better option.
Could you please explain? What's your reasoning? Thanks.
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post #137 of 561 Old 11-16-2015, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slateef View Post
In the market for a new projector. My room is finally done.

I'd narrowed it down to the Sony HW55ES, but now I'm doubled-minded.

Should I stick with the 55 or go for the 65? Or should I completely scrap the Sony and go for the RS400?

This will be a completely dark room, seating about 12 feet from a 120" screen. Will only be watching movies and perhaps a football or basketball game from time to time. No gaming.

Thanks in advance.
Advantages of RS400 vs. HW55/65ES:
- Better contrast/black level
- Better lens, also motorized lens shift/focus with memory function
- More calibrated lumens
- Fully 4K Blu-Ray compliant
- HDR-capable
- Cheaper than the 65ES, not much more than the 55ES (especially if you get in on the AVS preorder pricing)

Advantages of HW55/65ES vs. RS400:
- Less input lag for gaming
- Better 3D performance (although JVC may have closed this gap somewhat)
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post #138 of 561 Old 11-16-2015, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
Advantages of RS400 vs. HW55/65ES:
- Better contrast/black level
- Better lens, also motorized lens shift/focus with memory function
- More calibrated lumens
- Fully 4K Blu-Ray compliant
- HDR-capable
- Cheaper than the 65ES, not much more than the 55ES (especially if you get in on the AVS preorder pricing)

Advantages of HW55/65ES vs. RS400:
- Less input lag for gaming
- Better 3D performance (although JVC may have closed this gap somewhat)

I agree with this - good summary.
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post #139 of 561 Old 11-16-2015, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
Advantages of RS400 vs. HW55/65ES:
- Better contrast/black level
- Better lens, also motorized lens shift/focus with memory function
- More calibrated lumens
- Fully 4K Blu-Ray compliant
- HDR-capable
- Cheaper than the 65ES, not much more than the 55ES (especially if you get in on the AVS preorder pricing)

Advantages of HW55/65ES vs. RS400:
- Less input lag for gaming
- Better 3D performance (although JVC may have closed this gap somewhat)
Thanks!!
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post #140 of 561 Old 11-16-2015, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Just that the JVC overall can compete right now.
My point was this if by "right now" you mean the JVC models released in 2013 then things should get even better for JVC in that kind of comparison very soon (when we get the new models).

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #141 of 561 Old 11-16-2015, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
My point was this if by "right now" you mean the JVC models released in 2013 then things should get even better for JVC in that kind of comparison very soon (when we get the new models).

--Darin
I was talking about the new models. Even though the JVC is not true 4K, the higher native contrast, increased brightness, HDR and DCI P3 filter are making the JVC a very attractive package.
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post #142 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 10:49 AM
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These new JVC projectors seem so good that I don't expect new models for two years. Maybe a two year cycle will become the norm for JVC.
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post #143 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 10:55 AM
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Just an update. The 400's shipped early. They are on their way to us right now.
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post #144 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by slateef View Post
Could you please explain? What's your reasoning? Thanks.
Strawberry posted a great list. Unless your priority is gaming and/or 3D (where JVC might have improved), it's a no brainer in all honesty.

I think Sony is going to be in for a real challenge this year by JVC with these models.
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post #145 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ader42 View Post
These new JVC projectors seem so good that I don't expect new models for two years. Maybe a two year cycle will become the norm for JVC.
It's very conceivable considering what they added as JVC released nothing for 2015 and Sony does the same - and Epson appears to, as well. It probably just makes sense from a cost/production perspective.
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post #146 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it depends on what Sony and Epson decide to do. If the get wind of them releasing native 4K machines in the under $10000 price market then JVC should counter with something so they don't fall behind.
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post #147 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Just an update. The 400's shipped early. They are on their way to us right now.
Too late on the RS400 pricing/any still available?

TS
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post #148 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Strawberry posted a great list. Unless your priority is gaming and/or 3D (where JVC might have improved), it's a no brainer in all honesty.

I think Sony is going to be in for a real challenge this year by JVC with these models.

Yea its a pitty they still got that huge input lag..
But i also like to know If the 3d is improved..


Maybe i am gonne upgrade my sony hw55es to a JVC x5000.

Last edited by john2910; 11-17-2015 at 12:28 PM.
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post #149 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post
Too late on the RS400 pricing/any still available?

TS
Still available, but better call real soon.
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post #150 of 561 Old 11-17-2015, 12:52 PM
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Is there anybody in the Seattle area getting the RS400 who would be interested in showing it off? Could get a little help with setup if that is needed. Maybe even compare it to an Epson 10000 so you can see what a good decision you made.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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