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post #2131 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Postponed to next week due to the other party being sick

In the meantime...


Looking at these reviews you can clearly see the 4k advantage over the x5000 JVC and others and so far of the ones tested the Sony is their Reference model.


http://projectiondream.com/en/catego...jectorreviews/
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post #2132 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
In the meantime...


Looking at these reviews you can clearly see the 4k advantage over the x5000 JVC and others and so far of the ones tested the Sony is their Reference model.


http://projectiondream.com/en/catego...jectorreviews/
Clearly? Where. I don't see both units being compared anywhere there...

If you are talking about this, then its 1080p vs 4k native. Interestingly the Sony looks blurry and dull in this shot.

But the whole reason we want to compare both units being fed a best case scenario MadVR 4k signal is to have a good baseline. This is just wildly different colour and testing signals... cant be compared whatsoever.

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Last edited by Javs; 09-11-2016 at 05:25 AM.
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post #2133 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 06:34 AM
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@Javs
Sharpness/resolution patterns full enhance vs full Reality Creation.


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184157

Last edited by Kevin 3000; 09-11-2016 at 07:02 AM.
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post #2134 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediStitch View Post

So I got a 123" diagonal 16:9 Stewart Cima with the 1.3 gain "Neve" material from Mike Garrett at AVS. The 665 is moderately bright, but that's a big screen and I like a little ambient light so I can see what I'm eating, so I wanted a little gain. I was concerned about the gain causing sparkles or hotspotting, but this material is amazing. It's extremely smooth, and the coating that gives it gain is such a microscopic fineness that there's just zero sparkles or hotspotting. I still run my lamp in high for HDR, but I can easily run it on low for everything else. It's so flat and perfect, that the 665 appears to be putting out higher resolution! It's actually just the sharpness of these tiny pixels reflecting back more correctly from the flatter surface.

Anyway after three 4K players and testing 5 screen materials, I would confidently recommend this combination to any 665 owner.
Any chance you have a link to this item? I'm trying to source in the UK. Can't find any more than 1.1 gain.

Do you know if it's possible to have this sort of thing shipped from overseas?
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post #2135 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinimark View Post
Any chance you have a link to this item? I'm trying to source in the UK. Can't find any more than 1.1 gain.

Do you know if it's possible to have this sort of thing shipped from overseas?
Cima Neve is 1.1 gain.
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post #2136 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Cima Neve is 1.1 gain.
Thanks Mike, I think I found a dealer. I won't link to their page but the product is described as Stewart Cima-FF (CIMAFF) Fixed Wallscreen (16:9) Neve/White.

I guess this is the screen in question?
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post #2137 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
@Javs
Sharpness/resolution patterns full enhance vs full Reality Creation.


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/184157

The Sony appears sharper in those images. But I'm not interested in pixel patterns

Neither of those modes are realistic viewing conditions. Both are set to a level that is detrimental to the image. RC @100 is insane. Same with Enhance on anything over 3 IMO.

I already know my JVC does not resolve a true 4k pixel perfect pattern, had this discussion with Bandyka privately and got him to send me some shots of the same patterns, mine shoots grey patches while his renders pixels in some scenarios. I'm interested in content though since its not pixel rendered like patterns are.

Just wait until we do some comparisons with real content in the same room, same day, same camera etc. those images you linked were photographed six months apart. Useless. Also, an X5000 might not have as good a lens as my X7000.

Bandyka has a projector which retails for the same as my JVC. I think thats a more fair comparison. The 520ES is $6000 more than an X5000! Do you see a $6000 advantage in image quality in those patterns?

Btw what projector have you got?
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post #2138 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 09:15 AM
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^^^
jvc x90


The review site only reviewed an X5000 same lens as an x7000 so res charts will look the same.

Last edited by Kevin 3000; 09-11-2016 at 09:19 AM.
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post #2139 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 12:46 PM
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Couldn't agree more

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveUpton View Post
I'm stuck wondering if it's time to sell my 3 month old 665es. Sigh...

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Dave I couldn't feel any more similar to how you feel. I am just so disappointed with how Sony has handled everything about this projector. I so curious what they released at Cedia and how it differs from the 665. If they correct all the issues with the 665 by releasing a new projector and not correcting 665 at the same time I am going to riot!!
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post #2140 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinimark View Post
Thanks Mike, I think I found a dealer. I won't link to their page but the product is described as Stewart Cima-FF (CIMAFF) Fixed Wallscreen (16:9) Neve/White.

I guess this is the screen in question?
Yes.
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post #2141 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
^^^
jvc x90


The review site only reviewed an X5000 same lens as an x7000 so res charts will look the same.


Since they clearly scale up their quality control I am not so sure.

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post #2142 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgash11 View Post
Dave I couldn't feel any more similar to how you feel. I am just so disappointed with how Sony has handled everything about this projector. I so curious what they released at Cedia and how it differs from the 665. If they correct all the issues with the 665 by releasing a new projector and not correcting 665 at the same time I am going to riot!!
It's already confirm by Sony that all the modifications made to the software for the new model will be available for the 665.
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post #2143 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post
It's already confirm by Sony that all the modifications made to the software for the new model will be available for the 665.
Unfortunately, the true 18Gbps HDMI support and proper WCG implementation are more important. I wonder if we will be able to get our our HDMI boards replaced.

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Verum postulo res.
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post #2144 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveUpton View Post
Unfortunately, the true 18Gbps HDMI support and proper WCG implementation are more important. I wonder if we will be able to get our our HDMI boards replaced.

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Only the 5000ES is capable of this since they use cards.

The HDMI boards on the lower models would be soldered to the mainboard of the unit, which would be extremely expensive to replace.

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post #2145 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Only the 5000ES is capable of this since they use cards.

The HDMI boards on the lower models would be soldered to the mainboard of the unit, which would be extremely expensive to replace.
Thanks, I think that decides it for me.

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Verum postulo res.
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post #2146 of 3304 Old 09-11-2016, 11:46 PM
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The new 550 won't have a full 18 Gbps board so... Better than nothing but still not the real deal.


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post #2147 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 01:07 AM
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The new 550 won't have a full 18 Gbps board so... Better than nothing but still not the real deal.
I thought this was all but certain that it would?

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post #2148 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 01:43 AM
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Pardon my ignorance. Im thinking about an upgrade and would like to know what advantage will the 550 have by getting soldered the HDMI boards to the HDMi main board of the unit? What is the consequence of it not not being 18Gb?

Last edited by Walter Santos Filho; 09-12-2016 at 01:47 AM.
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post #2149 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Walter Santos Filho View Post
Pardon my ignorance. Im thinking about an upgrade and would like to know what advantage will the 550 have by getting soldered the HDMI boards to the HDMi main board of the unit? What is the consequence of it not not being 18Gb?
You cannot update the HDMI boards on ANY Sony other than the 5000ES. And even then, since it currently already has 18Gbps boards, there is no update available for that unit even.

There is no soldering to be done, I was merely saying that if it were at all possible, it would actually require a brand new motherboard since the HDMI board would be part of the motherboard chipset and not replaceable,

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post #2150 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 03:05 AM
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For a bit of clarity:

"Both HDMI inputs on the VPL-VW550 are HDCP 2.2-compliant. Given that the machine’s output for 4K/60p is still specced at 8-bit 4:2:0, we pressed Sony on whether the VPL-VW550ES is actually equipped with an 18Gbps chipset. Our question was dodged with a vague “not quite” answer, so make of that what you will."

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...1609034352.htm

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post #2151 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
For a bit of clarity:

"Both HDMI inputs on the VPL-VW550 are HDCP 2.2-compliant. Given that the machine’s output for 4K/60p is still specced at 8-bit 4:2:0, we pressed Sony on whether the VPL-VW550ES is actually equipped with an 18Gbps chipset. Our question was dodged with a vague “not quite” answer, so make of that what you will."

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...1609034352.htm
Cine4home report that the new 550 will support 4:2:0 at 10 bits. But also confirm it is not quit yet compatible with the full 18gps.
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post #2152 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 05:04 AM
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Can anyone point me in the direction of how to calibrate black levels for UHD playback?

I have a Sony disc (Chappie) and I have found the pluge pattern measured in nits.

I previously had the gains boosted as per another posters suggestions a few pages back but now with the latest firmware I reset them back to default but I still think the image is too dark.

Would anyone mind sharing their PJ settings for UHD HDR rec2020 just so I have a baseline to work off?

I have the Panasonic ub900 and I also have chromapure and a colourimeter which I have successfully used to calibrate blu Ray signals....no idea how to use it for UHD.

Sorry for the noob questions.

Mark.
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post #2153 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinimark View Post
Can anyone point me in the direction of how to calibrate black levels for UHD playback?



I have a Sony disc (Chappie) and I have found the pluge pattern measured in nits.



I previously had the gains boosted as per another posters suggestions a few pages back but now with the latest firmware I reset them back to default but I still think the image is too dark.



Would anyone mind sharing their PJ settings for UHD HDR rec2020 just so I have a baseline to work off?



I have the Panasonic ub900 and I also have chromapure and a colourimeter which I have successfully used to calibrate blu Ray signals....no idea how to use it for UHD.



Sorry for the noob questions.



Mark.


+1


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post #2154 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 06:38 AM
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Sorry missed this, done.
Thanks!
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post #2155 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post
Cine4home report that the new 550 will support 4:2:0 at 10 bits. But also confirm it is not quit yet compatible with the full 18gps.
Strange, Why would they not just use 18Gbps chips?
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post #2156 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Cima Neve is 1.1 gain.
Marketed as 1.1, but not according to Accucal's measurements. It tested extremely close to Stewart's Studiotek 130 at 1.25. I'm guessing this is because Neve is supposed to be the cheaper alternative.

It's definitely a bit brighter than my old EliteScreen 1.1 gain.

Regardless, it's a fantastic screen and I'd definitely recommend it @Tinimark
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post #2157 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediStitch View Post
Marketed as 1.1, but not according to Accucal's measurements. It tested extremely close to Stewart's Studiotek 130 at 1.25. I'm guessing this is because Neve is supposed to be the cheaper alternative.

It's definitely a bit brighter than my old EliteScreen 1.1 gain.

Regardless, it's a fantastic screen and I'd definitely recommend it @Tinimark
Not sure how accurate that info is on the Cima. The Tiburon is wrong also. It was changed, shortly after introduction. Stewart is very accurate with their specs and they have Neve listed as 1.1 and Tiburon listed as 0.8 gain. I know that when Tiburon first came out, Stewart had it listed as 0.92 gain, Then material was revised and the gain dropped to 0.8. In this case, I will take Stewart's numbers over Accucal.http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/scr...ont-projection
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post #2158 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 10:44 PM
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For all who really must have 18GBs HDMI chips. Please let me know what content you are seeing that must have 18GBs. What movies are being produced in 12Bit color 60 FPS? Why is it so important you will riot if Sony doesn't make this available now?

Until 18GBs is compelling due to all content, or even some content being released, I consider it like insisting all cars must go 400mph; fact is there are no roads that will allow a car to travel at 400mph, so why do I need to own a car that does 400mph?

The whole 18GBs requirement argument to me is absurd!
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post #2159 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
For all who really must have 18GBs HDMI chips. Please let me know what content you are seeing that must have 18GBs. What movies are being produced in 12Bit color 60 FPS? Why is it so important you will riot if Sony doesn't make this available now?

Until 18GBs is compelling due to all content, or even some content being released, I consider it like insisting all cars must go 400mph; fact is there are no roads that will allow a car to travel at 400mph, so why do I need to own a car that does 400mph?

The whole 18GBs requirement argument to me is absurd!
What? Seriously?

I can tell you right now.

A PC Desktop environment, which a LOT of us use.

Netflix up-scaled at 4k via the Panasonic UHD Player with chroma upscaling, or the Samsung player, while streaming a documentary recorded at 60fps. There are plenty of them. Or, any Youtube video at 60p up-scaled by your player to 4K and sent to your projector will max out your HDMI throughput at 17.8Gbps.

Or, watching anything at 8, 10 or 12bit / 60p at 4:2:2. Requires 17.8Gbps.

12bit 4k/60 4:4:4 is way past 18gbps HDMI throughput topping out at 72Gbps.

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Last edited by Javs; 09-12-2016 at 11:11 PM.
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post #2160 of 3304 Old 09-12-2016, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
What? Seriously?

I can tell you right now.

A PC Desktop environment, which a LOT of us use.

Netflix up-scaled at 4k via the Panasonic UHD Player with chroma upscaling, or the Samsung player, while streaming a documentary recorded at 60fps. There are plenty of them. Or, any Youtube video at 60p up-scaled by your player to 4K and sent to your projector will max out your HDMI throughput at 17.8Gbps.

Or, watching anything at 8, 10 or 12bit / 60p at 4:2:2. Requires 17.8Gbps.

12bit 4k/60 4:4:4 is way past 18gbps HDMI throughput topping out at 72Gbps.
Which is what I used to parrot a long time a go but non one believed me This is why at long distances you need the best cable possible.

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