Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 1022 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #30631 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
HCFR has internal test patterns that you use, but you should first confirm that (as a minimum) the white and black levels are the same as disc patterns. There some settings that you may need to change.

It doesn’t matter if you're getting “HDR out” from your laptop, as long as the projector is in the correct Picture Mode.


Thanks. Any more help with what settings? What do you mean by the white and black levels same as disc patterns??


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post #30632 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 11:12 AM
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Thanks. Any more help with what settings? What do you mean by the white and black levels same as disc patterns??


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If youre only doing the nits measurement then you might as well stick with the disc to display the white pattern and measure using HCFR. Less confusion.
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post #30633 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If youre only doing the nits measurement then you might as well stick with the disc to display the white pattern and measure using HCFR. Less confusion.
Sounds good. I have USB and itunes version of Ryan's patterns so will do that. Any tricks to where I place meter and move around until I get the max? Thanks Dominic
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post #30634 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tswire View Post
Sounds good. I have USB and itunes version of Ryan's patterns so will do that. Any tricks to where I place meter and move around until I get the max? Thanks Dominic
To use Spyder with HCFR You will have to use the ArgyllCMS driver, not the manufacturer’s driver. It is included with the HCFR installation.
Put the Spyder on a tripod with the sensor facing the screen, keep it at around 2’ from the screen to avoid reading its own shadow; adjust its angles to get the highest reading.
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post #30635 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Hi, I would just use coderguy's calculator. Click on the 'convert' tab, enter screen size, gain, etc. It works best with chrome browser.
I believe the OP is asking for calculations based on meter measurements from the actual setup, e.g., how to calculate the nits from a lux or fc measurement.
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post #30636 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
To use Spyder with HCFR You will have to use the ArgyllCMS driver, not the manufacturer’s driver. It is included with the HCFR installation.

Put the Spyder on a tripod with the sensor facing the screen, keep it at around 2’ from the screen to avoid reading its own shadow; adjust its angles to get the highest reading.


Gotcha. Thanks. Yes got the right driver installed and just waiting for the patterns. I was trying to read on HCFR forums but not an easy read to find the simple thing I want to do. I wish I could load the white pattern and start reading right in HCFR. I know you can just lost in all that it can do.


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post #30637 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tswire View Post
Gotcha. Thanks. Yes got the right driver installed and just waiting for the patterns. I was trying to read on HCFR forums but not an easy read to find the simple thing I want to do. I wish I could load the white pattern and start reading right in HCFR. I know you can just lost in all that it can do.
NOTE: Youn can also use the Spyder software to measure the peak nits.

To do a complete calibration using HCFR there's a fairly steep learning curve. However, if you just want to read the white level it's quite simple:
  1. Start HCFR
  2. -> File, New (or Ctrl-N)
  3. select DVD/Manual pattern
  4. select meter (e.g., Spyder 5; meter driver must be installed prior to starting HCFR)
  5. click on the 100% column and then the green arrow to start reading while displaying a 100% white pattern.
Note: to measure nits you need to point the meter at the screen, not directly at the projector like you do for autocal.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 01-21-2019 at 06:00 AM.
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post #30638 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
To do a complete calibration using HCFR there's a fairly steep learning curve. However, if you just want to read the white level it's quite simple:


  1. Start HCFR
  2. -> File, New (or Ctrl-N)
  3. select DVD/Manual pattern
  4. select meter (Spyder 5)
  5. click on the 100% column and then the green arrow to start reading.


Ok. Is there any pattern that is 100% white full screen? I am trying with HCFR included auto generated patterns and after I click on 100% white column then click green arrow I get a small white box. Is that enough to test for nits?


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post #30639 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tswire View Post
Ok. Is there any pattern that is 100% white full screen? I am trying with HCFR included auto generated patterns and after I click on 100% white column then click green arrow I get a small white box. Is that enough to test for nits?
As mentioned previously, it's easier to use an external pattern - although that's only because you're likely more familiar with your Blu-ray player or media player than with HCFR; and you don't need to worry about the different settings in HCFR which can lead to an incorrect pattern.

In any case, the default is a 10% window which should be enough to take a good reading, but that depends on the distance from the screen. You can change the window size by clicking on the GDI Generator icon (near top right) and select a different image area.
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post #30640 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
As mentioned previously, it's easier to use an external pattern - although that's only because you're likely more familiar with your Blu-ray player or media player than with HCFR; and you don't need to worry about the different settings in HCFR which can lead to an incorrect pattern.



In any case, the default is a 10% window which should be enough to take a good reading, but that depends on the distance from the screen. You can change the window size by clicking on the GDI Generator icon (near top right) and select a different image area.


Awesome. Thanks Dominic. Got it done using 100% white pattern but only the 10% size. Had the meter approx 2’ from screen and angling it got me 34 ftL. This was with iris wide open and HDR set on JVC. Does this make “sense”?


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post #30641 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tswire View Post
Awesome. Thanks Dominic. Got it done using 100% white pattern but only the 10% size. Had the meter approx 2’ from screen and angling it got me 34 ftL. This was with iris wide open and HDR set on JVC. Does this make “sense”?


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That’s in the right ballpark, but I would double-check it with a disc pattern.
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post #30642 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That’s in the right ballpark, but I would double-check it with a disc pattern.


I actually did use the 100%white from Ryan m patterns using ATV home sharing. Loaded the clip from the ATV from my library so thinking that worked just fine. Now just need to covert that to nits as it seems there are varying calculations lol.


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post #30643 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tswire View Post
I actually did use the 100%white from Ryan m patterns using ATV home sharing. Loaded the clip from the ATV from my library so thinking that worked just fine. Now just need to covert that to nits as it seems there are varying calculations lol.


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I thought you were using the internal pattern as you said it appeared after you clicked on the green arrow.
CHFR already gave you the reading in nits. It’s s the same as cd/m2.

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post #30644 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 05:21 PM
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Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
CHFR already gave you the reading in nits. It’s s the same as cd/m2.
Ya sorry I started with the built in HCFR pattern but couldn’t see the measurement changing so decided to do the manual pattern.


Well *****. I only wrote down the frL and didn’t save. Lol. 115 nits seems to calculate out right. Make sense?


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post #30645 of 31822 Old 07-16-2018, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I believe the OP is asking for calculations based on meter measurements from the actual setup, e.g., how to calculate the nits from a lux or fc measurement.
I think that's what @zombie10k was saying. The convert tab on webprojectorcalculator.com lets you enter your screen size and measured lux, and convert it to nits.
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post #30646 of 31822 Old 07-17-2018, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by sddawson View Post
I think that's what @zombie10k was saying. The convert tab on webprojectorcalculator.com lets you enter your screen size and measured lux, and convert it to nits.
My apologies to zombie10k.
However, if you have the measured lux, the nits does not depend on the screen size.
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post #30647 of 31822 Old 07-17-2018, 06:18 AM
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So now my next step is to find as close to 115 nits curve that I can use as a baseline for bbo and other adjustments. Of the manni, javs and your Dominic which one is close to that?


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post #30648 of 31822 Old 07-17-2018, 08:11 AM
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So now my next step is to find as close to 115 nits curve that I can use as a baseline for bbo and other adjustments. Of the manni, javs and your Dominic which one is close to that?
Closest would be Javs’ curves. You can change bm from 100 to 115.
Manni’s posted curves are in jgd format which does not allow bbo to be changed.
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post #30649 of 31822 Old 07-17-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Closest would be Javs’ curves. You can change bm from 100 to 115.
Manni’s posted curves are in jgd format which does not allow bbo to be changed.

I would suggest trying out Manni's DCE (Dolby Cinema Emulation) curves. They are targeted to Dolby Cinema 107nits. But as mentioned, they cannot be used with the Arve Tool.

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post #30650 of 31822 Old 07-17-2018, 09:30 AM
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I would suggest trying out Manni's DCE (Dolby Cinema Emulation) curves. They are targeted to Dolby Cinema 107nits. But as mentioned, they cannot be used with the Arve Tool.


Ya I think I tried that a while back but it didn’t give me what I thought was a “great” image. I would love to see that one as a .conf Arve tool file so I can adjust bbo and bm. Will start with javs v3.



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post #30651 of 31822 Old 07-17-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
My apologies to zombie10k.
However, if you have the measured lux, the nits does not depend on the screen size.
You are, of course, correct! I was using the post at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...projector.html which goes through a slightly convoluted process of converting to lumens, then to fl, but I can see that to get from fc to fl screen size doesn't matter. But the online calculator is useful to get from lux to nits based upon screen gain (which is, admittedly, a pretty simple calculation!).
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post #30652 of 31822 Old 07-18-2018, 08:36 AM
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post #30653 of 31822 Old 07-19-2018, 06:59 AM
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Ok, loaded Javs v3 and changed bw to 115 (from 100) as well as set bbo to 0.001 (from 0.004) and 68 is barely flashing. Initially this looked absolutely perfect. However, in my attempt to copy my current settings used in user mode for OPPO tone mapping, I did not set CMD to low like it was in all my other profiles. When I change that to LOW, I definitely see a smoother image BUT, at a huge (ok, some) reduction in overall brightness. I know when we calibrate, we are to ensure that is ON if we want to use it but wondering if anyone sees this same significant reduction in brightness with CMD low vs off. And before anyone says it, yes, I changed all my settings to BT2020, HDR color, custom gamma 1 - import in my new HDR User3 profile.
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post #30654 of 31822 Old 07-19-2018, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tswire View Post
Ok, loaded Javs v3 and changed bw to 115 (from 100) as well as set bbo to 0.001 (from 0.004) and 68 is barely flashing. Initially this looked absolutely perfect. However, in my attempt to copy my current settings used in user mode for OPPO tone mapping, I did not set CMD to low like it was in all my other profiles. When I change that to LOW, I definitely see a smoother image BUT, at a huge (ok, some) reduction in overall brightness. I know when we calibrate, we are to ensure that is ON if we want to use it but wondering if anyone sees this same significant reduction in brightness with CMD low vs off. And before anyone says it, yes, I changed all my settings to BT2020, HDR color, custom gamma 1 - import in my new HDR User3 profile.
Aren't you supposed to use Gamma 2.4 with OPPO tone mapping?
In any case, uncorrected gamma droop can cause a 20-30% increase in mid range.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 07-19-2018 at 07:10 AM.
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post #30655 of 31822 Old 07-19-2018, 07:10 AM
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Aren't you supposed to use Gamma 2.4 with OPPO tone mapping?
Yes, I have a user profile for OPPO TM with gamma 2.4. I created a new user profile for this HDR curve and changed the Gamma to custom, import from custom, 2.4.

Bottom line, I am confident all my settings are correct for HDR curves. It's just the question around CMD and how that obviously changes the overall brightness of the image.
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Originally Posted by tswire View Post
Yes, I have a user profile for OPPO TM with gamma 2.4. I created a new user profile for this HDR curve and changed the Gamma to custom, import from custom, 2.4.

Bottom line, I am confident all my settings are correct for HDR curves. It's just the question around CMD and how that obviously changes the overall brightness of the image.
The difference is not due to CMD per se, but due to uncorrected Gamma droop.
You need to run autocal with and without CMD to correct the gamma droop with both settings. Seems to me you did it for CMD Low but not CMD Off.
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post #30657 of 31822 Old 07-19-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The difference is not due to CMD per se, but due to uncorrected Gamma droop.

You need to run autocal with and without CMD to correct the gamma droop with both settings.


That’s what I thought. Thanks Dominic


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post #30658 of 31822 Old 07-19-2018, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tswire View Post
Yes, I have a user profile for OPPO TM with gamma 2.4. I created a new user profile for this HDR curve and changed the Gamma to custom, import from custom, 2.4.

Bottom line, I am confident all my settings are correct for HDR curves. It's just the question around CMD and how that obviously changes the overall brightness of the image.
Using 2.4 means you’re bypassing the custom curve, so it makes no difference which custom curve you’ve loaded, or how you set BBO. (You may know this already, but just in case.)
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post #30659 of 31822 Old 07-19-2018, 07:29 AM
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Using 2.4 means you’re bypassing the custom curve, so it makes no difference which custom curve you’ve loaded, or how you set BBO. (You may know this already, but just in case.)


Yup. Only use 2.4 for tone mapping profile. I changed that to import for custom curve in user profile 3 (named HDR CUSTOM)


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Hey Dom. Of all the instructions and steps for auto cal what do you recommend? I know I will only do gamma not colour but should I attempt both SDR and HDR? iris wide open on both or where I have it normally set for SDR? Clear black off? All other settings off except do both CMD off and low for both HDR and SDR? I have x770 so using auto cal 10 I think. What gamma do I load for HDR? I know you said st2084 won’t stick for autocal for you but will give it a try. Normal gamma or standard gamma for SDR? Can or should I try to use a custom gamma load for HDR? (Not even sure that is possible).




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