Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 1059 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31741 of 31985 Old 04-04-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I'll jump in here because I just had Chad out to my place last month.

Over a period of a couple visits, Chad created three modes for me on my RS500:
-SDR 2020, using 2.4 Gamma
-HDR Low lamp, using custom curve
-HDR High lamp, using custom curve

Prior to the visit last month, Chad hadn't been to my place since I picked up the UB820.

Before I had the UB820, I had the UB900 paired with a HD Fury. Eventually I dropped the Fury and just used the HDR custom curve Chad created for me.

The low lamp curve was good, but still a little dim for me. I simply boosted the slider to give me some additional brightness.
The high lamp curve was awesome, but due to my room setup and projector location the fan noise was more than I wanted to handle.

Once I got the UB820, I went back and forth between low lamp HDR and my SDR 2020 mode. The difference was so minor that I stuck with the SDR 2020 and turned on the Optimizer.

I had Chad take a look and give me his opinion based on my setup.
I have a Seymour XD, 115" 2:35 screen, so I am still starved for brightness due to the gain and the screen being AT.

Chad and I agreed that the best option, for my room, was to go with the SDR 2020 mode with the "slider" bumped up to +5. He ran some tests using his calibration tools and said I wasn't crushing blacks and we both thought the picture quality was great!

If I am ever able to tolerate the high lamp mode, I will use that over what I have but even Chad things the new UB820 tone mapping is a great product....especially for my generation of JVC projector.

I watched Aquaman and was really happy with how good the PQ was, overall. I thought maybe one or two scenes had a slight overly bright whites, but everything else was great.

IMO, I agree with Kris in regards to the benefits of using the SDR 2020 mode with low gain setups like myself. I simply don't have to play the "what if" game.

For the first time since jumping into the RS500 3 years ago, I am thrilled with my video performance in both 4K and standard Blu-ray. I plan on keeping this projector for at least another year or so, depending on if it has any issues or goes out on me.

Just my two cents.
Those are largely my findings with most discs, too, but I have a question about the bold.

When in HDR2020, I notice on my Vertex readouts that the Optimizer is adjusting everything to 500 luminance as it's supposed to by my "basic" setting in the ub820. Says it right there on my screen.

However, with SDR2020, it does not. It just shows the disc reading of 1000, 4000, or 10000. I've read where Kris said the Optimizer is not working with SDR2020 on, so what exactly is it doing?
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post #31742 of 31985 Old 04-04-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
In my Chad B calibrated set-up (89 nits in high lamp with iris wide open for UHD on my RS440), I have preferred the 820 at SDR/2020 over the Arve curves although I know Chad has refined them more over time. But I have yet to notice anything odd (overly bright whites/clipping, etc.) with the 820 where as on the Arve curves I would see this too often. I also didn't like using multiple curves for various movies. Mind you, I do run across a movie here or there where I might move the 820 luminance slider up or down a couple of notches, but 90% of the time it's set and forget. I've been very pleased with the 820 as it's the first time I've really been satisfied with the tone mapping I'm getting.
I know what you're saying, and I find that to be the case much of the time.

However, here are two examples of contradiction.

With Aquaman, it looks beautiful with SDR2020, but when I turn on HDR2020 it's overly bright with clipping in bright scenes.

However, with The Revenant, it's kind of dull in SDR2020, but comes to life in HDR2020.

I think, overall, SDR2020 is the way to go, but to be honest, when the HDR2020 is matched well with a disc, it's the best picture I've gotten with my rs620/ub820 setup.

(Another positive with SDR2020 is that it plays well with Netflix on the ub820, which always chooses it with my Vertex and looks really nice.)

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post #31743 of 31985 Old 04-04-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post

However, with SDR2020, it does not. It just shows the disc reading of 1000, 4000, or 10000. I've read where Kris said the Optimizer is not working with SDR2020 on, so what exactly is it doing?
I could be fuzzy on this but I seem to recall Kris said with SDR/2020, it doesn't matter what display setting (bright LCD, projector, etc.) you choose in the 820 menu. The Optimizer still works with SDR/2020 - if it's not turned on, it defaults to a 1000 nit curve.
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post #31744 of 31985 Old 04-04-2019, 01:38 PM
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I noticed during the demo of the NX9 & UB9000 there was a custom color profile loaded in the NX9 for the UB9000 (video below at 6:18). I am wondering if something similar can be done for the UB820 or if you could load those Panasonic UB9000 color profiles for the UB820 also?

I have a feeling somewhere between SDR2020, HDR2020 and a gamma curve or color profile there is something that could be done. It would not surprise me at all if it was as simple as loading that PANA_PQ_BL color profile (I am not sure where to get it).

We were able to introduce custom gamma to the RSx00 projectors after the RSx20's came out and it is simple to upload a gamma curve or color profile to the RSx00 projectors through the JVC software. Perhaps this is a similar opportunity? Thoughts?

NX9 & UB9000 Demo:
Spoiler!
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post #31745 of 31985 Old 04-04-2019, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Those are largely my findings with most discs, too, but I have a question about the bold.

When in HDR2020, I notice on my Vertex readouts that the Optimizer is adjusting everything to 500 luminance as it's supposed to by my "basic" setting in the ub820. Says it right there on my screen.

However, with SDR2020, it does not. It just shows the disc reading of 1000, 4000, or 10000. I've read where Kris said the Optimizer is not working with SDR2020 on, so what exactly is it doing?
In HDR mode, the Optimizer uses the HDR TV Type and the MaxDML/MaxCLL metadata values to determine the tone mapping target.

In SDR/BT2020 mode, the Optimzer uses only the MaxDML/MaxCLL metadata values to determine the tone mapping target. Paraphrasing Kris' remarks on SDR/BT2020 mode the Optimizer determines the tone mapping target:

If MaxCLL = 0 Then tone map to MaxDML
If MaxCLL < MaxDML Then tone map to MaxCLL.
If MaxDML < MaxCLL Then tone map to MaxDML.
If both MaxDML and MaxCLL are zero Then tone map using a default 1000 nit tone map.

MaxDML is the Maximum Display Monitor Luminance. The capabilities of the mastering monitor used to grade the HDR.
MaxCLL is the Maximum Content Luminance Level. The nit level of the brightest pixel in the entire content.

SDR/BT2020 shouldn't have any HDR metadata at all so you would not expect to see any output values in the UB820 Information screen. But Panasonic is sending SDR/BT2020 with an EOTF value of 1 which allows for metadata. EOTF2 is used for HDR10 and EOTF3 is used for HLG. I have no idea as to what Panasonic thought HDR displays might do with this metadata accompanying the SDR/BT2020. I believe the metadata values are pretty much ignored. Note that if you used SDR/BT2020 mode with a non-HDR TV or Projector, EOTF1 is not used and there is no output HDR metadata reported.

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Last edited by claw; 04-04-2019 at 03:46 PM.
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post #31746 of 31985 Old 04-04-2019, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I noticed during the demo of the NX9 & UB9000 there was a custom color profile loaded in the NX9 for the UB9000 (video below at 6:18). I am wondering if something similar can be done for the UB820 or if you could load those Panasonic UB9000 color profiles for the UB820 also?

I have a feeling somewhere between SDR2020, HDR2020 and a gamma curve or color profile there is something that could be done. It would not surprise me at all if it was as simple as loading that PANA_PQ_BL color profile (I am not sure where to get it).

We were able to introduce custom gamma to the RSx00 projectors after the RSx20's came out and it is simple to upload a gamma curve or color profile to the RSx00 projectors through the JVC software. Perhaps this is a similar opportunity? Thoughts?
Unfortunately for us, the two new color profiles in the NX/RS series are installed as part of a firmware upgrade. They are not available separately like the BT.2020 color profile JVC provided that we loaded using the JVC calibration software. As I understand, these two color profiles contain an internal HDR gamma curve. So I assume the 500 nit color profile has a 500 nit HDR gamma curve. The 350 nit color profile has a 350 nit gamma curve. You would use the 500 nit projector TV type in the Panasonic UB9000 with the 500 nit color profile in the JVC, and use the UB9000 350 nit HDR TV Type with the 350 nit JVC color profile. The JVC color profiles were created and calibrated to match the Panasonic player HDR Optimizer output; this is the result of the collaboration between Panasonic and JVC. They are not meant to be used with other players.

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Last edited by claw; 04-04-2019 at 04:05 PM.
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post #31747 of 31985 Old 04-04-2019, 04:21 PM
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post #31748 of 31985 Old 04-09-2019, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
There must be a way to claw it out of the NX’s.

Do they have software and and export function or something? There has to be hope!
So is there any hope to this?
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post #31749 of 31985 Old 04-09-2019, 01:54 PM
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So is there any hope to this?
I don't know. I am not sure if there is software or an export option for the NX projectors. On the NX projectors there is a PANA_PQ_BL & PANA_PQ_HL Color Profile, what I don't understand is how a Color Profile is designed for 350 nits (BL) or 500 nits (HL). It also seems like they are using Gamma 2.2, so does that mean the UB9000 is on SDR2020? I'm also curious what the HDR10 Color Temp is all about. The information might be in the NX or UB9000 threads, but I'm not sure. I know some of the guys here are in there also, so hopefully they will respond.

From the JVC NX9 / Panasonic UB9000 Demo:
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post #31750 of 31985 Old 04-09-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Auto Lip Sync is already on. I’m just wondering if it’s a projector processing delay issue...

Auto Lip Sync is not useful here - it is a Denon feature that supposedly reads the processing time of connected TV monitors from the EDID if they support it and the Denon will then compensate according to the info provided by the monitor.


As far as I know the JVCs do not provide this info since there is no processing delay.


The fact it is sporadic is telling - do you get the problem with both the 820 and the Shield or just the Shield?
I set up a client’s JVC 750 and UB820 (and cable box, apple TV, etc) connected to a Pioneer VSX LX503. Setting Auto Sync to on helps the sync problem to disappear.

The only part that is still randomly out of sync is when the customer is using Netflix app on his 820. Often times a reboot of the UB820 will eliminate this problem. I’m also having this problem with both my 820 and 9000 on my 790 and NX7.

Last but not least, Pana BL should be used if you use the JVC colour filter. If you use without filter, Pana HL should be chosen (according to JVC Canada).

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post #31751 of 31985 Old 04-09-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I don't know. I am not sure if there is software or an export option for the NX projectors. On the NX projectors there is a PANA_PQ_BL & PANA_PQ_HL Color Profile, what I don't understand is how a Color Profile is designed for 350 nits (BL) or 500 nits (HL). It also seems like they are using Gamma 2.2, so does that mean the UB9000 is on SDR2020? I'm also curious what the HDR10 Color Temp is all about. The information might be in the NX or UB9000 threads, but I'm not sure. I know some of the guys here are in there also, so hopefully they will respond.[/IMG]
This confused me as well when I first read about this.

What is happening, though, is that these new Color Profiles are *also* handling Gamma duties. I didn't know they could do that. So the Panasonic is set to output HDR (not SDR-2020). The Gamma adjustments contained *within* these new Color Profiles are based on Gamma 2.2, which is why that is chosen within the JVC Picture Mode.

I don't understand how it does this, but this is the bottom line in terms of how it works, as I understand it.

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post #31752 of 31985 Old 04-09-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
The Gamma adjustments contained *within* these new Color Profiles are based on Gamma 2.2, which is why that is chosen within the JVC Picture Mode.
Actually all JVC gammas are relative to 2.2. That’s why in the autocal log gamma 2.2 displays as a straight diagonal line, gamma 2.1 bows up, 2.3 bows down etc.
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post #31753 of 31985 Old 04-11-2019, 09:51 AM
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check out 'Our Planet' on netflix

if folks haven't seen this yet, high recommend to check out 'Our Planet' on Netflix. The documentary is narrated by Sir David Attenborough and took 4 years to film.

at first I thought it was another Planet Earth or Blue Planet but this one is different and quite raw - I would advise some viewer warnings, especially in the Arctic episodes.The film work is unbelievable on how they accomplished this series. 4K drones & special breathing apparatus that doesn't produce bubbles and allowed the cameramen to remain under water for hours at a time.

Take a break from the movies and definitely check this one out, it's visually remarkable to see on the big screen.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80049832
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post #31754 of 31985 Old 04-11-2019, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
if folks haven't seen this yet, high recommend to check out 'Our Planet' on Netflix. The documentary is narrated by Sir David Attenborough and took 4 years to film.

at first I thought it was another Planet Earth or Blue Planet but this one is different and quite raw - I would advise some viewer warnings, especially in the Arctic episodes.The film work is unbelievable on how they accomplished this series. 4K drones & special breathing apparatus that doesn't produce bubbles and allowed the cameramen to remain under water for hours at a time.

Take a break from the movies and definitely check this one out, it's visually remarkable to see on the big screen.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80049832
My problem with those productions is that, invariably, I look up and it's 4 am in the morning, and I have to get up for work soon.
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post #31755 of 31985 Old 04-13-2019, 03:07 AM
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Guys I have troubles with my X9000. The PJ doesn't start. The orange light keeps flashing. Any idea??

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post #31756 of 31985 Old 04-13-2019, 05:23 AM
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Guys I have troubles with my X9000. The PJ doesn't start. The orange light keeps flashing. Any idea??
It’s lamp related. The specific cause depends on whether it’s blinking 1x, 2x, or 3x. There’s a table near the end of the manual that describes them.
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post #31757 of 31985 Old 04-13-2019, 01:41 PM
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It’s lamp related. The specific cause depends on whether it’s blinking 1x, 2x, or 3x. There’s a table near the end of the manual that describes them.
Thank you.

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post #31758 of 31985 Old 04-17-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I could be fuzzy on this but I seem to recall Kris said with SDR/2020, it doesn't matter what display setting (bright LCD, projector, etc.) you choose in the 820 menu. The Optimizer still works with SDR/2020 - if it's not turned on, it defaults to a 1000 nit curve.
I replaced my UB900 with a UB820.

- Created custom "SDR 2020" Picture Mode
- Selected ChadB custom "BT 2020" Color Profile
- Selected same custom Color Temp as HDR Picture Mode
- Selected "Custom 1" for Gamma and set correction value to 2.4


I set the UB820 to SDR 2020 and turned on optimizer.

Did I misunderstand anything? Other consideration?


I don't plan to have Chad back out until I get a new lamp in a few months.

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post #31759 of 31985 Old 04-17-2019, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Panasonic UB820, JVC & SDR2020

The Panasonic UB820 is the answer for physical 4K media. With the built-in SDR2020 Tone Mapping, 4K discs behave exactly like HD discs and you never have to deal with Gamma D or any external devices like an HD Fury. The UB820 will make you think you bought a new projector. Configured with the settings below, your projector will not see a ‘HDR’ signal so it will not switch to Gamma D. The UB820 is still interpreting the HDR data off the disc and sending a ‘full range’ signal to the projector so you are not leaving any color or brightness 'on the table'. You get beautiful high resolution and wide color gamut images without the hassle.

The UB820 is worth every single penny and your only regret will be waiting this long to get it.

I also made a JVC 4K QuickStart Guide that has some tips you might find useful.

Panasonic UB820 Optimal Settings for JVC RSxxx Projectors (SDR2020):

On the UB820:
Settings>HDMI>Advanced>HDR/Color Gamut Output>SDR/BT.2020
Settings>HDMI>Advanced>HDR/Color Gamut Output>HDR TV Type>Basic Luminance LCD and Projector

On the UB820 During 4K Disc Playback:
Options (remote button)>Video Settings>Optimum HDR Adjustment>HDR Optimizer>On (preference)
Options (remote button)>Video Settings>Optimum HDR Adjustment>Dynamic Range Conversion Adjustment>+4 to +8 (preference)

Regarding HDR Optimizer, you lose some brightness but gain detail in explosions and similar. I started with this off but now have it on. Dynamic Range Conversion Adjustment will depend a lot on your screen size, bigger screens will want more. I have left the other settings at defaults (so far).

On the JVC Projector:
Menu>Picture Adjust>Color Profile>BT.2020
Menu>Picture Adjust>Gamma>Gamma>Custom 1 or 2 or 3
Menu>Picture Adjust>Gamma>Correction Value>2.4

Regarding other settings like Iris and Lamp Mode, that is your preference. I chose Iris 0 and usually Low Lamp but High Lamp looks nicer. I set my user modes up for quick switching (press the User Mode before adjusting settings): User1-HD, User2-4K, User3-3D. More about that in my JVC 4K QuickStart Guide.

Nice.


Ok, so that's what I had done. Was quite pleased.


Menu>Picture Adjust>Color Temp> (I selected the same "custom" that ChadB used for the HDR Picture mode)


If anything, I thought I might go slightly negative on the DRC Adjust. Image is brighter than brightest of the 3 ChadB curves, yet I tend to think I was seeing more detail in dark scenes.


Finally, I gather I'm getting the benefit from the pro calibration with exception of swapping out custom HDR tone mapping for Optimizer mapping. More or less?

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post #31761 of 31985 Old 04-17-2019, 03:36 PM
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Nice.

Ok, so that's what I had done. Was quite pleased.

Menu>Picture Adjust>Color Temp> (I selected the same "custom" that ChadB used for the HDR Picture mode
I had just left this at the default 6500K for everything. Haven’t really looked into color temp at all.
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If anything, I thought I might go slightly negative on the DRC Adjust. Image is brighter than brightest of the 3 ChadB curves, yet I tend to think I was seeing more detail in dark scenes.
Brightness is why I bought a UB820. I’m getting more brightness and dark detail then I ever did with custom gamma curves and the image is significantly more pleasing. More bright and dark detail with more overall brightness...that’s a win win win.
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Finally, I gather I'm getting the benefit from the pro calibration with exception of swapping out custom HDR tone mapping for Optimizer mapping. More or less?
Pretty much yeah. You are still getting the benefits color and gamma points of the calibration that was done with the calibration meter.
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post #31762 of 31985 Old 04-17-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I had just left this at the default 6500K for everything. Haven’t really looked into color temp at all.

Anyone else? Please chime in....



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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Brightness is why I bought a UB820. I’m getting more brightness and dark detail then I ever did with custom gamma curves and the image is significantly more pleasing. More bright and dark detail with more overall brightness...that’s a win win win.

Seems that way.

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post #31763 of 31985 Old 04-18-2019, 05:27 PM
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Nice.


Ok, so that's what I had done. Was quite pleased.


Menu>Picture Adjust>Color Temp> (I selected the same "custom" that ChadB used for the HDR Picture mode)


If anything, I thought I might go slightly negative on the DRC Adjust. Image is brighter than brightest of the 3 ChadB curves, yet I tend to think I was seeing more detail in dark scenes.


Finally, I gather I'm getting the benefit from the pro calibration with exception of swapping out custom HDR tone mapping for Optimizer mapping. More or less?
I went with -2 on the slider for a 118 diagonal picture with most titles. For darker titles I adjust to +2.

When I zoomed it out to test what I would need if I were to get a 138 diagonal 2.35 screen, I found that +3 looked best. This is aperture wide open and low lamp.
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post #31764 of 31985 Old 04-21-2019, 08:11 AM
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You can also use the Dynamic Range Adjustment Slider. I made a UB820 & JVC Guide (clicky).
This is fantastic for one who has not had the ChadB cal. How does it compare with using a BluRay player without any "slider"-capability, the ChadB curves and a Fury to block the HDR trigger?

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This is fantastic for one who has not had the ChadB cal. How does it compare with using a BluRay player without any "slider"-capability, the ChadB curves and a Fury to block the HDR trigger?
Even people with ChadB calibration agree the UB820 is magic. If you look at my posts I am very much so against hyperbole, the UB820 is truly amazing. Buy it.
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post #31766 of 31985 Old 04-21-2019, 09:48 AM
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Even people with ChadB calibration agree the UB820 is magic. If you look at my posts I am very much so against hyperbole, the UB820 is truly amazing. Buy it.
Dreamliner how are u. I have the oppo with my 640 and I use javs curvs...
Just curious will I see a better picture quality with the 820.. not that I'm complaining or anything..

I think my ultimate goal is to wait for that madvr nv they are working on.. that sounds truly amazing



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post #31767 of 31985 Old 04-21-2019, 11:41 AM
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Dreamliner how are u. I have the oppo with my 640 and I use javs curvs...
Just curious will I see a better picture quality with the 820.. not that I'm complaining or anything..
You would definitely notice a difference. I’d buy one immediately, especially since the Oppo will sell for more than you’ll pay for the 820. Many Oppo owners have already switched and have been happy.
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I think my ultimate goal is to wait for that madvr nv they are working on.. that sounds truly amazing
I’ll probably pick one up if it it works simple like a Darbee. The PC setup looks too complex and frustrating for me to deal with all the time.
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post #31768 of 31985 Old 04-22-2019, 08:31 AM
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I'll take the 820 over custom curves. Bonus is no default Gamma D to deal with (for those with RS500/600). I'm not sure about this, but I'd almost swear that 1080P content looks better. Maybe the 820 has some processing improvements over the 900?



I will pick up a new lamp later in the year and hire ChadB for the 3rd time (for my RS600). Figure I'll get a tiny bump in image quality. That will likely last until I'm ready for a projector upgrade in 2-1/2 years or so.

HT: Panasonic DP-UB820 | JVC RS600 | 106" x 45" Stewart ST 100 | Cary Audio Cinema 12 | NAD M27 | Elac Uni-Fi UF5, UC5, Debut F5/B6; Focal CMS Sub
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post #31769 of 31985 Old 04-27-2019, 05:27 PM
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Just picked up a rs600 with around 380 hours on it! This is my first projector, as we are trying to finish up our dedicated HT in our basement. Anything I need to know about mounting to the ceiling or throw distance? My next purchase is a Panasonic ub820.
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post #31770 of 31985 Old 04-28-2019, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by woodboss83 View Post
Just picked up a rs600 with around 380 hours on it! This is my first projector, as we are trying to finish up our dedicated HT in our basement. Anything I need to know about mounting to the ceiling or throw distance? My next purchase is a Panasonic ub820.
I can't speak much for the distance information, except you can probably find that info in the manual.

However, I will say that purchasing the UB820 is an absolute must for the RS600 if you want to make sure you are maximizing what you can do with 4K material.

I would also HIGHLY recommend getting on Chadb's schedule for calibrations. He isn't too far from you and can dial that projector in for you. Believe me, you will be very happy with what can do.
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