Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 1073 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32161 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I just upgraded from an RS400 to the NX7. I've provided a fairly detailed summary of initial impressions here.
Yeah. It is a difficult ask to simultaneously want a brighter projector AND for absolute black levels to get better. For many years I ignored black level and when I compared a Panasonic AE8000 to a JVC RS46 I liked how dark the RS46 could get and was one of a few reasons I kept it.

When I got my RS400, the VERY FIRST thing I noticed was the brighter black level. I noticed it as it was warming up and the very second the JVC logo popped up, so I literally mean it was the first thing I noticed. Luckily, having a RS400, even if we got the NX5 the black level wouldn’t be much different (it would be a little worse because absolute brightness of NX5 is more and contrast ratio is the same, so absolute black level would be a bit higher). That said I’ll likely be buying something at the NX7 level, in time.

I’m also not fully certain what the expectation should be, even if I look at a completely black image and adjust the iris from 0 to -15 the difference does not seem that significant to me. Yes there is a difference, but not one I’d pay extra for (not in money or the brightness trade off). One thing I’ve wondered for quite some time: How does the absolute black level of a RS400 at iris -15 compare to a RS500/600 at iris 0? Which one is darker? I’d be interested in an absolute black level comparison between a RS400/500/600/1000/2000/3000...

I think you know from my history here I try to stay away from hyperbole or bias and I don’t get stuck in the weeds with a spec. If something looks/sounds better one way over another, I’ll say so, even if it flies in the face of general acceptance. I actually find it quite humorous that I’m complaining about black levels because I’m willing (and do) trade some black level for more brightness. I am 100% positive I’d be happy with any of the NX projectors, I just want NX9 quality for at least NX7 pricing, so I will wait another cycle or two...or perhaps pick up your NX7 for 30% one day.
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post #32162 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 11:59 AM
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It does get tricky with upgrades as everyone has different expectations.

The NX7 is a fantastic projector, one of the best on the market. If I was coming from an older projector the NX7 would be my projector of choice.

I am not sure the difference between the RS400 and RS540/X790 but in viewing between the 790,NX5 and NX7 I did find the newer projector to best mine in every aspect. But even with the dynamic tone mapping they did not blow away the X790.
Tricky, indeed. The RS540 is one level, and 2 generations improved from the RS400, so better contrast, and improved HDR curves. So one might expect the move to an NX7 to not be a dramatic as from the RS400.

Were the circumstances where you were able to compare the RS540 to an NX7 ideal? Meaning same room, same screen, same content, each Projector configured appropriately? Having both the RS400 and NX7 set up in my room simultaneously, dual outputs from my AVR, with an easy A/B comparison possible by using the Hide function, made this a fairly valid way to judge differences. But I know it's not always easy, or possible, to be able to make apples to apples comparisons.

Just curious, since based on what I've seen with the RS400, I would have guessed that the NX7 would still be a clear improvement over an RS540. But that is pure speculation, and I could easily be wrong.

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post #32163 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 12:06 PM
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I think you know from my history here I try to stay away from hyperbole or bias and I don’t get stuck in the weeds with a spec. If something looks/sounds better one way over another, I’ll say so, even if it flies in the face of general acceptance. I actually find it quite humorous that I’m complaining about black levels because I’m willing (and do) trade some black level for more brightness. I am 100% positive I’d be happy with any of the NX projectors, I just want NX9 quality for at least NX7 pricing, so I will wait another cycle or two...or perhaps pick up your NX7 for 30% one day.
I agree that there is too much hyperbole and bias, making it difficult to make valid assessments. I tried to address this issue in my post, and provide relevant disclaimers that would impact evaluating what I reported.

My personal judgment was that the relative improvement to be obtained going from an NX7 to an NX9 would not be sufficient to justify doubling the cost. Plus, I would be paying for the 8k eShift technology, which again personally, I could do without, not seeing any real-world implications (other than for marketing buzzwords!).

And I'm hoping my NX7 will retain more than 30% of its value over the next year or two!!

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post #32164 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 12:10 PM
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It does get tricky with upgrades as everyone has different expectations.

The NX7 is a fantastic projector, one of the best on the market. If I was coming from an older projector the NX7 would be my projector of choice.

I am not sure the difference between the RS400 and RS540/X790 but in viewing between the 790,NX5 and NX7 I did find the newer projector to best mine in every aspect. But even with the dynamic tone mapping they did not blow away the X790.
Tricky, indeed. The RS540 is one level, and 2 generations improved from the RS400, so better contrast, and improved HDR curves. So one might expect the move to an NX7 to not be a dramatic as from the RS400.

Were the circumstances where you were able to compare the RS540 to an NX7 ideal? Meaning same room, same screen, same content, each Projector configured appropriately? Having both the RS400 and NX7 set up in my room simultaneously, dual outputs from my AVR, with an easy A/B comparison possible by using the Hide function, made this a fairly valid way to judge differences. But I know it's not always easy, or possible, to be able to make apples to apples comparisons.

Just curious, since based on what I've seen with the RS400, I would have guessed that the NX7 would still be a clear improvement over an RS540. But that is pure speculation, and I could easily be wrong.
Unfortunately I was not able to view them in the same room which would be ideal. I have velvet surrounding my screen so anywhere else I see a projector is not a fare comparison. I just have to do my best to remember how it looked on my screen to the best I can.

Like many I’ve watched certain scenes multiple times and have a pretty good eye for what I am looking for.

The NX7 is a better projector in every way over the X790 other then contrast. If I was upgrading from an older projector and had the choice to purchase either projector I’d pick the NX7 every time.
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post #32165 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 12:12 PM
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I agree that there is too much hyperbole and bias, making it difficult to make valid assessments. I tried to address this issue in my post, and provide relevant disclaimers that would impact evaluating what I reported.

My personal judgment was that the relative improvement to be obtained going from an NX7 to an NX9 would not be sufficient to justify doubling the cost. Plus, I would be paying for the 8k eShift technology, which again personally, I could do without, not seeing any real-world implications (other than for marketing buzzwords!).
I agree completely. I think it was in this thread I posted that the NX9 has the same MSRP as a brand new 2020 Chevy Cruze.

Quote:
And I'm hoping my NX7 will retain more than 30% of its value over the next year or two!!
I hope not for very selfish and bias reasons. Unless of course I break down and buy one new, then I hope so too.
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post #32166 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 12:20 PM
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Unfortunately I was not able to view them in the same room which would be ideal. I have velvet surrounding my screen so anywhere else I see a projector is not a fare comparison. I just have to do my best to remember how it looked on my screen to the best I can.

Like many I’ve watched certain scenes multiple times and have a pretty good eye for what I am looking for.

The NX7 is a better projector in every way over the X790 other then contrast. If I was upgrading from an older projector and had the choice to purchase either projector I’d pick the NX7 every time.
Thanks for explaining that.

The main reason for my post in the other thread, was to report what I was seeing, given the often rare situation where direct apples-to-apples comparisons were feasible. And to be honest, I was pretty anxious beforehand, knowing how my stomach would just sink if I ended up being disappointed by what I saw. I was hoping for, half-expecting, a reasonable amount of improvement, not just some subtle change where I have to convince myself that something is better. But this was clearly not the case.

And that's why I just watched that same GOTG2 scene the next morning, just on my RS400, the same as usual, and it once again looked just fine, as it has for the last several years. Not as much 'pop' as I get with my Sony 900E, but that would be no surprise.

But then when I turned on the NX7, the RS400 just seemed pale and lifeless in comparison. I'm very much a student of human perception, and find this stuff fascinating in its own right!

Anyway, not trying to convince anybody to do or not do anything, just trying to provide some hopefully non-hyperbolic, rational, reasoned observations, to assist people in their decision making.

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post #32167 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 12:33 PM
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Unfortunately I was not able to view them in the same room which would be ideal. I have velvet surrounding my screen so anywhere else I see a projector is not a fare comparison. I just have to do my best to remember how it looked on my screen to the best I can.

Like many I’ve watched certain scenes multiple times and have a pretty good eye for what I am looking for.
The NX7 is a better projector in every way over the X790 other then contrast. If I was upgrading from an older projector and had the choice to purchase either projector I’d pick the NX7 every time.
What's annoying is that contrast and black level is THE most important part in good picture quality. It's number one. So even though the NX7 may be the better projector overall, in contrast it falls below the X790 and that's a big deal to me. So I'll wait until JVC's 4K projectors can get to the X790 native contrast levels until I decide to pull the trigger. Other people might think differently, but this is all in my point of view.
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post #32168 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 12:55 PM
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Unfortunately I was not able to view them in the same room which would be ideal. I have velvet surrounding my screen so anywhere else I see a projector is not a fare comparison. I just have to do my best to remember how it looked on my screen to the best I can.

Like many I&#226;€&#x2122;&#xfe0f;ve watched certain scenes multiple times and have a pretty good eye for what I am looking for.

The NX7 is a better projector in every way over the X790 other then contrast. If I was upgrading from an older projector and had the choice to purchase either projector I&#226;€&#x2122;&#xfe0f;d pick the NX7 every time.
Thanks for explaining that.

The main reason for my post in the other thread, was to report what I was seeing, given the often rare situation where direct apples-to-apples comparisons were feasible. And to be honest, I was pretty anxious beforehand, knowing how my stomach would just sink if I ended up being disappointed by what I saw. I was hoping for, half-expecting, a reasonable amount of improvement, not just some subtle change where I have to convince myself that something is better. But this was clearly not the case.

And that's why I just watched that same GOTG2 scene the next morning, just on my RS400, the same as usual, and it once again looked just fine, as it has for the last several years. Not as much 'pop' as I get with my Sony 900E, but that would be no surprise.

But then when I turned on the NX7, the RS400 just seemed pale and lifeless in comparison. I'm very much a student of human perception, and find this stuff fascinating in its own right!

Anyway, not trying to convince anybody to do or not do anything, just trying to provide some hopefully non-hyperbolic, rational, reasoned observations, to assist people in their decision making.
The NX7 even had a bit more pop then my X790 but nothing earth shattering. Could just be the newer bulb.

Going from the 400 to the NX7 also doubles your your contrast which will significantly increase the pop on you picture.

I also try to give my observations as well for people who are in the same situation. It’s not to dissuade or persuade, just to hopefully help if possible.
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post #32169 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 01:23 PM
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Just dropped in to see if there was anything revolutionary for our projectors since I last visited. Looks like madvr has made great strides, though just like the Panasonic br player it doesn’t help me with iTunes and Netflix which is 75% of my content these days. That’s fine. Chad’s custom curves are still serving me well.

Good to see folks are keeping to their perspectives......owners with tweaking skills or a great calibrator still love their RSx00 units and are getting stellar results.....and people that sell newer models or have upgraded typically think the newer ones are better . Personally I think we’re all sitting pretty.
MadVR has made astronomical strides in the last few weeks, absolutely amazing! We watched Hobbs and Shaw UHD last night, it looked remarkable with MadVR DTM vs. UB820 vs. the best static curves.

A number of folks who run MadVR are using it with movies on the new JVC's and JVC DTM for streaming apps. I spent time with it recently. it's very good for baseline DTM but it's not MadVR caliber which is in a league of it's own imo.

it's a blast to watch it literally changing the tone mapping on the fly!



MadVR has breathed new life into my RS600's, these have years of life left in them and still have best in class native vs. newer models + same brightness + same P3 coverage

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post #32170 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 01:27 PM
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MadVR has made astronomical strides in the last few weeks, absolutely amazing! We watched Hobbs and Shaw UHD last night, it looked remarkable with MadVR DTM vs. UB820 vs. the best static curves.

A number of folks who run MadVR are using it with movies on the new JVC's and JVC DTM for streaming apps. I spent time with it recently. it's very good for baseline DTM but it's not MadVR caliber which is in a league of it's own imo.

What GPU are you using? Would a GTX 1080Ti be suitable? I'm currently using the static tonemapping of the stable madvr release. Is the difference significant?
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post #32171 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 01:35 PM
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What GPU are you using? Would a GTX 1080Ti be suitable? I'm currently using the static tonemapping of the stable madvr release. Is the difference significant?
Hi, I am using a GTX 1080Ti and it works perfect with the latest builds and all setting maxed out.

for the static TM version vs. latest DTM, there is no comparison... day and night difference with DTM! send me a PM with your setup, I can send some recommended settings with the latest 108 build.

before someone asks, this PC is not in the HT...

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post #32172 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 02:12 PM
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Spoiler!
It is widely known that purple is the fastest color.
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post #32173 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 02:57 PM
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MadVR, UB820 SDR2020 or a good curve (custom of JAVS V3) is all the further I think we can go. Whatever bypasses the broken JVC HDR system probably will yield best results. When I stream and am forced to use a gamma curve, it's definitely less stellar than what I can achieve with discs. I wish the UB820/9000 had a HDMI input, heck I'd pay $1000 for a HDMI I/O box (like a Vertex) that does what the UB820 does for discs (SDR2020, HDR Optimizer, etc).





The only projector worth upgrading to is the NX7/9 but they are extremely expensive (especially the NX9) and still have a major trade off (black level).
Yeah we need a Panasonic with hdmi in. I'll pay whatever

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post #32174 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 06:08 PM
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It is widely known that purple is the fastest color.
It's still fast with all the lights off i9900K @ 5ghz on all 8 cores. way overkill for MadVR which is all GPU but I do a lot of encoding on this machine as well.
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post #32175 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 07:35 PM
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MadVR has made astronomical strides in the last few weeks, absolutely amazing! We watched Hobbs and Shaw UHD last night, it looked remarkable with MadVR DTM vs. UB820 vs. the best static curves.

A number of folks who run MadVR are using it with movies on the new JVC's and JVC DTM for streaming apps. I spent time with it recently. it's very good for baseline DTM but it's not MadVR caliber which is in a league of it's own imo.

it's a blast to watch it literally changing the tone mapping on the fly!



MadVR has breathed new life into my RS600's, these have years of life left in them and still have best in class native vs. newer models + same brightness + same P3 coverage

You got two 600s? Any plans on upgrading to a native 4k model?
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post #32176 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 08:22 PM
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You got two 600s? Any plans on upgrading to a native 4k model?
Hi, I did that twice with the VW1100 and the RS2000. There's a few things I'd like to see improved on the RS2000 and patient to wait and see if that changes in the future.
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post #32177 of 32212 Old 11-04-2019, 08:53 PM
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Hi, I did that twice with the VW1100 and the RS2000. There's a few things I'd like to see improved on the RS2000 and patient to wait and see if that changes in the future.
I meant for 4k models in the future because I know you didn't keep the RS2000/N7. I have been really enjoying the RS2000/N7. I thought you would have went with those two as dual duty with 4k material since you are the man of many worlds of projectors lol.
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post #32178 of 32212 Old 11-05-2019, 07:48 AM
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for the static TM version vs. latest DTM, there is no comparison... day and night difference with DTM!
Is the stand alone processor under development expected to match the DTM performance of the computer software?

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post #32179 of 32212 Old 11-05-2019, 08:46 AM
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Is the stand alone processor under development expected to match the DTM performance of the computer software?
Hi, yes it will. There are 2 models being released with the top model having the most powerful GPU available today.

What's impressive is the world wide participation in enhancing this amazing software. There are folks reporting in from all over with excellent feedback and a common goal to make this the best DTM product available.
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post #32180 of 32212 Old 11-05-2019, 12:45 PM
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Hi, I did that twice with the VW1100 and the RS2000. There's a few things I'd like to see improved on the RS2000 and patient to wait and see if that changes in the future.
Just out of interest Zombie ,what made you ditch the rs2000 in favour of keeping the rs600......I am assuming it was the advantage in native contrast
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post #32181 of 32212 Old 11-05-2019, 12:49 PM
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It's still fast with all the lights off i9900K @ 5ghz on all 8 cores. way overkill for MadVR which is all GPU but I do a lot of encoding on this machine as well.
If some is good, more is better!
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post #32182 of 32212 Old 11-05-2019, 08:37 PM
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Hi, I am using a GTX 1080Ti and it works perfect with the latest builds and all setting maxed out.

for the static TM version vs. latest DTM, there is no comparison... day and night difference with DTM! send me a PM with your setup, I can send some recommended settings with the latest 108 build.

before someone asks, this PC is not in the HT...

1000% agree. I can not even believe how much better the picture is with the MadVR DTM. It is a night and day difference!

With better tone mapping I am able to close down the iris to -12 and enable the DI with absolutely no pumping on my X790 and 100" screen. Its awesome when the room just blacks out!

The only downside is that I now have to build a HTPC or find a used one. lol

So glad I cancelled my NX7 order and went the MadVR route!
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post #32183 of 32212 Old 11-06-2019, 03:38 PM
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It's still fast with all the lights off i9900K @ 5ghz on all 8 cores. way overkill for MadVR which is all GPU but I do a lot of encoding on this machine as well.
For anyone wondering, you don't need much of a PC to go with the GPU card. I recently installed an RTX 2080 Super into an existing HTPC case that I have that has an i3-2100 low watt Sandy Bridge CPU and a motherboard with a PCIe 2.0 slot.

I will upgrade the motherboard, CPU, and memory at some point but I can run MadVR tone mapping now with almost no compromises in quality settings. You really can't imagine how much better picture you will get on your RSX00 with MadVR tone mapping until you actually see it. I thought I was completely satisfied with my UB820 HDR Optimizer tone mapping, but there really is no comparison.

A 1080 TI is very close in performance to an RTX 2080 Super for how they are utilized by MadVR. I think only a 2080 TI can best it.

I have 150 UHD discs to backup to BDMV folders. I use JRiver Red October HQ to view the backups with disc menu support. When you choose Red October HQ in JRiver, it will actually download and configure a recent release of MadVR. I then copy the new MadVR test builds over the version that Red October installed. And just tweak the options. Couldn't be simpler.
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post #32184 of 32212 Old 11-06-2019, 03:45 PM
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For anyone wondering, you don't need much of a PC to go with the GPU card. I recently installed an RTX 2080 Super into an existing HTPC case that I have that has an i3-2100 low watt Sandy Bridge CPU and a motherboard with a PCIe 1.0 slot.

I will upgrade the motherboard, CPU, and memory at some point but I can run MadVR tone mapping now with almost no compromises in quality settings. You really can't imagine how much better picture you will get on your RSX00 with MadVR tone mapping until you actually see it. I thought I was completely satisfied with my UB820 HDR Optimizer tone mapping, but there really is no comparison.

A 1080 TI is very close in performance to an RTX 2080 Super with the edge still with the 1080 TI. I think only a 2080 TI can best it.
So true, still playing around to find my optimal settings but its a winner. Movies that were just ok just look great now. The Meg was blown out on highlights in areas for me with static curves and looks fine now with MadVR.

Its like I have a brighter picture and more contrast with MadVR
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post #32185 of 32212 Old 11-06-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
For anyone wondering, you don't need much of a PC to go with the GPU card. I recently installed an RTX 2080 Super into an existing HTPC case that I have that has an i3-2100 low watt Sandy Bridge CPU and a motherboard with a PCIe 1.0 slot.

I will upgrade the motherboard, CPU, and memory at some point but I can run MadVR tone mapping now with almost no compromises in quality settings. You really can't imagine how much better picture you will get on your RSX00 with MadVR tone mapping until you actually see it. I thought I was completely satisfied with my UB820 HDR Optimizer tone mapping, but there really is no comparison.

A 1080 TI is very close in performance to an RTX 2080 Super for how they are utilized by MadVR. I think only a 2080 TI can best it.

I have 150 UHD discs to backup to BDMV folders. I use JRiver Red October HQ to view the backups with disc menu support. When you choose Red October HQ in JRiver, it will actually download and configure a recent release of MadVR. I then copy the new MadVR test builds over the version that Red October installed. And just tweak the options. Couldn't be simpler.
it's good to hear you got it up and running quickly. +1 on the results, it's very impressive when you see it in person vs. the UB820 vs. custom curves

The UHD menu support in JRiver is a great feature. I dug up my old Media Center remote control from years ago, it works well with JRiver. How are you controlling the UI?



Last edited by zombie10k; 11-06-2019 at 08:20 PM.
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post #32186 of 32212 Old 11-06-2019, 09:23 PM
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it's good to hear you got it up and running quickly. +1 on the results, it's very impressive when you see it in person vs. the UB820 vs. custom curves

The UHD menu support in JRiver is a great feature. I dug up my old Media Center remote control from years ago, it works well with JRiver. How are you controlling the UI?
Sad to say I am currently using keyboard and mouse. I will have to look into getting a remote.

I figured out how to clear the MadVR statistics tonight. For a while I thought I was dropping frames by the dozens. Watched a move all the way though with zero dropped frames.


Anyway, getting a bit off topic. There are a couple of good threads here to learn more...

If you want to discuss hardware for MadVR this is the place...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...tpc-madvr.html

If you want to discuss MadVR players and settings this is where I look...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...rt-thread.html

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post #32187 of 32212 Old 11-07-2019, 03:11 PM
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Can someone post 10 3D movies that looks really good on the RS600 please,I'm trying to pick some up but only about 10-20 before they're not available anymore,Thanks.

2 Channel: Fi 2A3 mono's,Hovland HP100,Technics SP10MK2/SME/Benz....HT:126" Seymour AT Screen,JBL Studio 590's for LCR, Side and Rear Surrounds. Jbl SCS8'S for Fr Heights, and Rear Heights,2 Epik Empire Subs,2 Behringer B1200D Midbass Subs,Marantz 7702MK2,Proceed Amp-5,Outlaw 7125,Panasonic UB820 ,Toshiba HD35,JVC RS600. Black Velvet.
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post #32188 of 32212 Old 11-07-2019, 04:16 PM
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Can someone post 10 3D movies that looks really good on the RS600 please,I'm trying to pick some up but only about 10-20 before they're not available anymore,Thanks.
Some of my 3D favorites:

Guardians of the Galaxy 2
Ant-Man
Ant-Man & Wasp
Dr. Strange (very intense 3D)
Spiderman far from home
Thor Ragnarok
Alita Battle Angel (this is a must see in 3D)
Mad Max
Pacific Rim (AMAZING in 3D!)
Rogue One
Prometheus
Kong Skull Island
Maleficent (2014)

IMAX:

Space Station (Amazing in 3D)
Micro Monsters
Kingdom of the Plants

Animations:

Nightmare before Xmas
Sammy's Adventure (A++++ 3D)
Wreck it Ralph
Cars
Monsters Inc.
Despicable Me
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post #32189 of 32212 Old 11-08-2019, 06:15 PM
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Can someone post 10 3D movies that looks really good on the RS600 please,I'm trying to pick some up but only about 10-20 before they're not available anymore,Thanks.
Titanic
Avatar
Gravity
The Martian
Ready Player One
Mad Max Fury Road
Blade Runner 2049
Dredd
Prometheus
Star Trek Into Darkness
The Force Awakens
Avengers 1
Doctor Strange
Ant-Man 1
Toy Story 4
Beauty and the Beast (animated)

There are a lot of good 3D flicks. The ones I listed are definitely the stronger ones. I have 156 3D Blu-ray’s and like most of them. I have all the 3D Marvel movies but I’m hesitant to recommend the newer ones because they have sound issues and I don’t recall when the Disney sound shenanigans started. Ignore native/post-conversion debates, many post-converted 3D outperforms native.

Avatar is probably still the best 3D there is. Dredd is perhaps the best deal. The 4K combo includes the 3D/2D disc.

Zombie also gave you a good list.

3D > 4K ...but I still buy both.
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post #32190 of 32212 Old 11-08-2019, 09:59 PM
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@zombie10k and @Dreamliner thanks for the lists,I plan on buying some every week to build up my collection of 3D.

2 Channel: Fi 2A3 mono's,Hovland HP100,Technics SP10MK2/SME/Benz....HT:126" Seymour AT Screen,JBL Studio 590's for LCR, Side and Rear Surrounds. Jbl SCS8'S for Fr Heights, and Rear Heights,2 Epik Empire Subs,2 Behringer B1200D Midbass Subs,Marantz 7702MK2,Proceed Amp-5,Outlaw 7125,Panasonic UB820 ,Toshiba HD35,JVC RS600. Black Velvet.
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