Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 226 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6751 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:03 PM
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Well, got my Samsung K8500 today and was expecting a nightmare especially since I know I had to connect directly to the projector since my avr is not hdmi 2.0. I got the same issue with the setup menu which I had to switch to edid b and set up in 1080p. I did not do the firmware update. I set everything to auto on the Samsung and the JVC. I changed to edid a, put in a disc and it started playing. The disc I used was The Martian UHD Blu ray. The cable used was a 12' Monster Black Platinum connected directly to projector on HDMI 1. Picture Mode I set to Natural. Samsung set to Gamma D, I put in high lamp mode, DI to 0 auto 2, brightness and contrast maxed out to 50. Picture is a little dim overall but very watchable. I'm attaching 2 screenshots. This was during the day in a semi-light controlled environment. For the time being I'm using my rs600 on the wall, no special paint ( I know I'm crazy, but It still looks incredible and I do plan on getting a proper screen after researching the heck out of my options ).
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post #6752 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:11 PM
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Man I had a gut feeling, even when ordering the Samsung player, that their attempt to rush a player out well in advance of everyone else was a bit of red flag in itself. Seems this has proven to be right on the money. I am inclined, if no significant improvements are had by way of firmware between now and early next month, when my player is supposedly due in at B&H, to cancel as per my other local colleague here. I really wish Pioneer had been company to release a player first, never had a problem with their players, even back to the days of Laser/DVD combi players. I'm sure Oppo will get it right since they are taking their time as always to get their player to market. I'd even have wager both Panasonic and Sony wouldn't have released a player with this many issues if theirs was first to market. Reminds me very much of the old saying in business, "Whats the better philosophy, get your product to market first or get it right first then get it to market".
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post #6753 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
Great post, this is exactly what I have been seeing. So hopefully Samsung will do something about this.
+1! (great post Big H!)

Who's to blame here tho… is it a deficiency with JVC's support of this rez or is it an oddity for a player to be outputting 60p/444 (sounds like the player no?)?

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post #6754 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I just got mine working perfectly. Obviously someone doesn't want me to get bored.

Please expand brutha (especially if your success is induced by your recent Denon 7200WA purchase… like I just bought from J.D.!)

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post #6755 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:29 PM
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And how do you know that?
Because several people have connected a test pattern generator to the JVC and the JVC could accept everything it is listed to accept. Even people in this thread have reported that the JVC accepted what is listed in the specs.
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post #6756 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Please expand brutha (especially if your success is induced by your recent Denon 7200WA purchase… like I just bought from J.D.!)
Craig was having problems with 1080P BD and 1080P 3D with the Lumis in the chain. Getting rid of the Lumis solved his current cable problems. Craig does not have the Samsung. Like me, he decided to cancel his preorder.
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post #6757 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:39 PM
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Don't forget to enter the "HDFury" coupon code to get a discount.

The integral was originally $199 but they raised they price to $249 after the new year. Probably due to supply and demand.

And only order it directly from hdfury.com. Shipped from Taiwan but my order took only 4 days before it was on my doorstep.
I placed my order on Sunday evening NY time and on Tuesday 11 am it was at my place!
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post #6758 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
You should def give the fury a try. It has helped me and another member for sure. I'm rock solid with it. The advantage is that the Fury can convert 4K/60 4:4:4 to 4K/60 4:2:0, which requires was less bandwidth. This allows me to have a rock solid menu at 4K/60 4:2:0 8bit. And movies at 4K/24 4:4:4 10/12bit.
It sounds like you have the first part of the problem (HDMI) nicely resolved - a rock solid connection that reliably passes through what is needed for UHD Blu-ray.

I am curious about the second part of the problem (HDR). Do you have a picture you are happy with? A picture that is a solid step beyond standard Blu-ray?

It seems that only a chosen few (if any) have reached this level of UHD Blu-ray nirvana with the JVC. And hopefully they are busy watching movies!
I am not at all happy with the HDR implementation. Even adjusting to all the regular settings, the picture is extremely dim and there is still a lot of shadow detail lost. The dynamic iris doesn't function. Black level is elevated. Even maxing out the picture level, dark level, bright level doesn't help.

But when I switch the fury to only output 4k/24 4:4:4 8bit rec709, the image is incredible. Extremely bright and sharp. Far more dynamic looking since the dynamic iris works, and the colors are way more natural looking.

JVC is going to have to get a firmware update out to deal with HDR. One to get a corrected gamma, and another hopefully to toggle HDR on/off

Anyone who has a Fury, should set it to just output 8bit 4:4:4 4k/24 which will disengage HDR, to compare to the HDR. You won't go back, until it's fixed.
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post #6759 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I am not at all happy with the HDR implementation. Even adjusting to all the regular settings, the picture is extremely dim and there is still a lot of shadow detail lost. The dynamic iris doesn't function. Black level is elevated. Even maxing out the picture level, dark level, bright level doesn't help.

But when I switch the fury to only output 4k/24 4:4:4 8bit rec709, the image is incredible. Extremely bright and sharp. Far more dynamic looking since the dynamic iris works, and the colors are way more natural looking.

JVC is going to have to get a firmware update out to deal with HDR. One to get a corrected gamma, and another hopefully to toggle HDR on/off

Anyone who has a Fury, should set it to just output 8bit 4:4:4 4k/24 which will disengage HDR, to compare to the HDR. You won't go back, until it's fixed.
Do you notice any banding with the 8 bit setting?
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post #6760 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:45 PM
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I just cancelled my pending order for the samsung, and replaced it with the 4k amazon fire tv until the dust settles on UHD players.
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post #6761 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I am not at all happy with the HDR implementation. Even adjusting to all the regular settings, the picture is extremely dim and there is still a lot of shadow detail lost. The dynamic iris doesn't function. Black level is elevated. Even maxing out the picture level, dark level, bright level doesn't help.

But when I switch the fury to only output 4k/24 4:4:4 8bit rec709, the image is incredible. Extremely bright and sharp. Far more dynamic looking since the dynamic iris works, and the colors are way more natural looking.

JVC is going to have to get a firmware update out to deal with HDR. One to get a corrected gamma, and another hopefully to toggle HDR on/off

Anyone who has a Fury, should set it to just output 8bit 4:4:4 4k/24 which will disengage HDR, to compare to the HDR. You won't go back, until it's fixed.
Do you notice any banding with the 8 bit setting?
I have not, but I haven't really sat and watch a lot of content yet. I have only opened 2 of the 6 UHD movies I bought.

Currently the two options I can use with the Integral are:

4K/60 4:2:0 with 4K/24 4:4:4 both at 8bit

4K/60 4:2:0 with 4K/24 4:4:4 10/12 bit HDR Rec2020

They are going to add this one below. They said they will have the firmware updated for it in just a couple days. That will be:

4K/60 4:2:0 with 4K/24 4:4:4 10/12bit (No HDR) Rec2020

Hopefully this will address the lack of an HDR toggle on/off on the JVC.
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post #6762 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:03 PM
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thanks for posting your experience so far. I'd like to see the image with WCG but no HDR. it sounds like that last setting will be the ticket. I ordered one yesterday and they shipped it already.
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post #6763 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
+1! (great post Big H!)

Who's to blame here tho… is it a deficiency with JVC's support of this rez or is it an oddity for a player to be outputting 60p/444 (sounds like the player no?)?
2160p/60 4:4:4 seems like an uninspired choice for a disc player's menu, since many displays and other legacy equipment don't support that combination of settings. EDID info was designed so equipment can talk with each other to discover what settings are compatible. They should take advantage of this. The Samsung customer support folks I've spoken with haven't given me any cause for hope that their developers are going to work this. I expect that they'll realize the importance of fixing it as more trouble tickets start rolling in however.

Even if Samsung doesn't fix this, I assume that my issues will be resolved when the Radiance Pro gets a UHD fw update in a few weeks. For those not running that VP, the HDfury Integral might be worth investigating.
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post #6764 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:06 PM
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Does anyone know where the center of gravity is on the RS500?
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post #6765 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
+1! (great post Big H!)

Who's to blame here tho? is it a deficiency with JVC's support of this rez or is it an oddity for a player to be outputting 60p/444 (sounds like the player no?)?
2160p/60 4:4:4 seems like an uninspired choice for a disc player's menu, since many displays and other legacy equipment don't support that combination of settings. EDID info was designed so equipment can talk with each other to discover what settings are compatible. They should take advantage of this. The Samsung customer support folks I've spoken with haven't given me any cause for hope that their developers are going to work this. I expect that they'll realize the importance of fixing this as more trouble tickets start rolling in however.

Even if Samsung doesn't fix this, I assume that my issues will be resolved when the Radiance Pro gets a UHD fw update in a few weeks. For those not running that VP, the HDfury Integral might be worth investigating.
I have a Radiance Pro on my 4K Barco DCI projector. The Samsung works flawless with it right now, because the Radiance can only handle 4/60 at 4:2:0, so it forces that output from the Sammy.

I am only using the Integral on the RS600. But if you have a Radiance, you shouldn't have any problem with the menu at 4K/60.

The only downside to the Radinace Pro, is that it can only do 12bit at 4:2:2. At 4:4:4 it's limited to 8bit. So if Samsung doesn't offer 4:2:2 in a software update, the Radinace pro is going to be a problem.

Hopefully the 18gb chips might offer a way around this.
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post #6766 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by espidus View Post
Well, got my Samsung K8500 today and was expecting a nightmare especially since I know I had to connect directly to the projector since my avr is not hdmi 2.0. I got the same issue with the setup menu which I had to switch to edid b and set up in 1080p. I did not do the firmware update. I set everything to auto on the Samsung and the JVC. I changed to edid a, put in a disc and it started playing. The disc I used was The Martian UHD Blu ray. The cable used was a 12' Monster Black Platinum connected directly to projector on HDMI 1. Picture Mode I set to Natural. Samsung set to Gamma D, I put in high lamp mode, DI to 0 auto 2, brightness and contrast maxed out to 50. Picture is a little dim overall but very watchable. I'm attaching 2 screenshots. This was during the day in a semi-light controlled environment. For the time being I'm using my rs600 on the wall, no special paint ( I know I'm crazy, but It still looks incredible and I do plan on getting a proper screen after researching the heck out of my options ).
I might have made a mistake letting the firmware update. Luckily, I have the Intregal. You shouldn't need one to hook up two components who both have HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2, but I'm just glad I have the item and the ability to do it.

JVC RS500, Denon 7200WA, 7.2.4 Atmos/DTSX dedicated Theater. 133" Dalite 1.3 screen. M&K S150 + K7 ear level, 4 Tannoy DC overheads.
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post #6767 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I have a Radiance Pro on my 4K Barco DCI projector. The Samsung works flawless with it right now, because the Radiance can only handle 4/60 at 4:2:0, so it forces that output from the Sammy.

I am only using the Integral on the RS600. But if you have a Radiance, you shouldn't have any problem with the menu at 4K/60.

The only downside to the Radinace Pro, is that it can only do 12bit at 4:2:2. At 4:4:4 it's limited to 8bit. So if Samsung doesn't offer 4:2:2 in a software update, the Radinace pro is going to be a problem.

Hopefully the 18gb chips might offer a way around this.
I originally tried hooking up the Sammy to my Radiance Pro, but that had black screen problems too. I set HDCP to 2.0, but that didn't help. I decided to bypass it after that until the next fw update.

Jim Peterson wrote the following today in the Radiance Pro thread:
"The Samsung UHD player came out a bit sooner than we expected. Adding the HDR and Rec 2020 flags to the HDMI info frames is now a very high priority and we hope to have these in the software in a few weeks.
Calibration for Rec 2020 should be fine, and we should have the ability to select the Rec 2020 calibration based on the source Rec2020 info frame flag.
Calibration with HDR is more difficult and initially it might be that for HDR source the Radiance CMS should be at default until we get this sorted."
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post #6768 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by napa_newbie View Post
...
and replaced it with the 4k amazon fire tv
...
You think the Fire TV has better prospects for 4K content than the Roku 4? I'm just figuring out which cheap, working way to jump right now for 4K content.
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post #6769 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:46 PM
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I originally tried hooking up the Sammy to my Radiance Pro, but that had black screen problems too. I set HDCP to 2.0, but that didn't help. I decided to bypass it after that until the next fw update.

Jim Peterson wrote the following today in the Radiance Pro thread:
"The Samsung UHD player came out a bit sooner than we expected. Adding the HDR and Rec 2020 flags to the HDMI info frames is now a very high priority and we hope to have these in the software in a few weeks.
Calibration for Rec 2020 should be fine, and we should have the ability to select the Rec 2020 calibration based on the source Rec2020 info frame flag.
Calibration with HDR is more difficult and initially it might be that for HDR source the Radiance CMS should be at default until we get this sorted."
The samsung doesn't have any issue with my radiance pro. Only issue is that the samsung only outputs at 4k/24 4:4:4.
Jim emailed me specifically, that they are limited to 8bit at 4:4:4. The samsung will have to output 4:2:2 to do 12 bit. He also told me they are working for the HDR and Rec2020, but not sure what he is going to do about the limitation of bit rate.

Here is image of Radiance Pro menu. What software version are you on?

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post #6770 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:47 PM
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I have not, but I haven't really sat and watch a lot of content yet. I have only opened 2 of the 6 UHD movies I bought.

Currently the two options I can use with the Integral are:

4K/60 4:2:0 with 4K/24 4:4:4 both at 8bit

4K/60 4:2:0 with 4K/24 4:4:4 10/12 bit HDR Rec2020

They are going to add this one below. They said they will have the firmware updated for it in just a couple days. That will be:

4K/60 4:2:0 with 4K/24 4:4:4 10/12bit (No HDR) Rec2020

Hopefully this will address the lack of an HDR toggle on/off on the JVC.
Thanks - that is great information. I just ordered an Integral as well.

Where is the best place to place it in the chain: K8500 > A/V Receiver (HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2 compliant) > RS600?

On a lighter side - my (very patient) wife was curious as to what I just ordered. When I described it she chuckled and said it sounds like one of those face creams that promises to fix everything - eliminate all those wrinkles and blemishes. I said she was right - as I would no longer be furrowing my forehead in fits of Samsung consternation!
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post #6771 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:49 PM
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You think the Fire TV has better prospects for 4K content than the Roku 4? I'm just figuring out which cheap, working way to jump right now for 4K content.
One benefit of the Roku 4 is that right now it is the only way to stream 4K (UHD) content from VUDU to the JVC projector.
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post #6772 of 32133 Old 02-15-2016, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
You think the Fire TV has better prospects for 4K content than the Roku 4? I'm just figuring out which cheap, working way to jump right now for 4K content.
For 4k streaming, the Roku 4 is rock solid once HDMI cable issue is sorted out. For 4kUHD disc play, the Samsung 8500 works fine with the disc insert to get the home screen. Actually, the home screen is not relevant as the Samsung defaults work fine with the JVC. This should be fixed soon with firmware update. I plan to use the Fury to connect both the Roku4 and Samsung 8500 to the JVC directly with one of the inputs. The other input will be my OPPO 103d for 1080p discs. The settings for proper 4k UHD with HDR lie within the JVC. I was able to find suitable settings but wait for JVC to provide optimum settings or firmware update to do the set up.

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post #6773 of 32133 Old 02-16-2016, 01:38 AM
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I received a disappointing response from Samsung on my second customer support request on their UHD BD player. Here's my third ticket:
- - -
Your previous message to me stated
"It is not possible to adjust the default color space of the Player. When you turn the player on, it always defaults to 2160p/60 4:4:4 color space and 2160p/60 resolution. It is normal functionality of the player. As of now, there is no option available to manually set the YCbCr color spaces 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 in addition to 4:4:4. We consider this as a feedback."

I understand that that's how the UBD-K8500 works, but please understand that unless Samsung provides a firmware update to change that behaviour, you should expect to receive more complaints and returned players. 2160p/60 4:4:4 demands that every piece of equipment in the display chain (player, AVR, display, and cables), is compatible with that resolution, frame rate, and color space, and many are not. UHD Blu-rays are encoded with 2160p/24 4:2:2, so why not use that? If Samsung doesn't want to hard-code more compatible default settings for the player's menu, the player should at least check the EDID of the system it's connected to so it can discover the display's capabilities, then use that. I'm trying to help you make the player better. A firmware update with changes I've requested will lower the number of complaints about this new product & increase sales. I'm not sure why there would be any resistance to making these changes...
- - -

Perhaps more owners should submit trouble tickets if you want these problems fixed...
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/contact
UHD Blurays are 4:2:0, not 4:2:2
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post #6774 of 32133 Old 02-16-2016, 03:53 AM
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Color profile for UHD bluray

Should we be using Reference or Cinema 2 color profile for UHD playback?
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post #6775 of 32133 Old 02-16-2016, 04:20 AM
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thanks for posting your experience so far. I'd like to see the image with WCG but no HDR. it sounds like that last setting will be the ticket. I ordered one yesterday and they shipped it already.
Good luck! Those settings just set the EDID that is sent by the sink device back to the source. The source device can use this to see what your display is capable of. It is then up to the source device to decide what to do. It's doubtful the Samsung will do the type of conversion you're looking for. It will probably just send 4K, 8-bit, SDR, rec709 when it sees your device can't handle HDR. Hopefully you have the regular BD version of the movie around to see if there is any real improvement remaining.
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post #6776 of 32133 Old 02-16-2016, 05:03 AM
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Should we be using Reference or Cinema 2 color profile for UHD playback?
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post #6777 of 32133 Old 02-16-2016, 05:41 AM
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I suggest JVC projector owners that are using (or hope to use) a UBD-K8500 Ultra Blu-ray player send comments to Samsung asking for firmware updates to: (1) offer a user setting for YCbCr using 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 formats in additional to the current 4:4:4 and (2) add a user setting to turn off HDR while still supporting WCG and 10-bit depth when playing Ultra HD Blu-ray discs.


Below is the Samsung web site for sending them an email message:
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/contact
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post #6778 of 32133 Old 02-16-2016, 06:19 AM
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hello, i'm wondering if anybody of you make a comparison between rs500 and rs600. I read only 600 vs sony 1100, but nothing about rs500 vs rs600. Thank you all.
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post #6779 of 32133 Old 02-16-2016, 06:22 AM
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One benefit of the Roku 4 is that right now it is the only way to stream 4K (UHD) content from VUDU to the JVC projector.
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You think the Fire TV has better prospects for 4K content than the Roku 4? I'm just figuring out which cheap, working way to jump right now for 4K content.
I like using amazon prime video and have no intention of buying/renting 4K content from VUDU (I want to buy UHD discs). I'm mainly focused on netflix 4k, amazon 4k until I can figure out what type of UHD blu ray player works well with the JVC RS600 and HDR.
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post #6780 of 32133 Old 02-16-2016, 07:19 AM
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hello, i'm wondering if anybody of you make a comparison between rs500 and rs600. I read only 600 vs sony 1100, but nothing about rs500 vs rs600. Thank you all.
Since they are basically the same projector with the RS600 having certain hand picked parts, any comparison will depend on the performance of the specific units being evaluated. I would speculate that some RS500's will perform as good as some, or most, RS600's while other units may be a little worse. It appears the issues with bright corners and vertical streaking can occur with either model, it's just luck of the draw for how the individual unit performs in these areas. I would expect that, on average, the black levels and contrast ratio will just be a little better with the RS600's, but that doesn't mean that you might find a RS500 that performs just as well.
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