Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 340 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10171 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
My HDMI run is only 15'. " Oh bleeding edge, how I missed you " ( NOT ! ).

The bike ride was good, even though it was a bit rainy and windy. 110 miles ! And I had to try and keep up with my wife on her bike-

Wow your wife's gotta a really nice B…ike!

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post #10172 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 07:27 PM
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Wow your wife's gotta a really nice B…ike!
Why else do you think Craig follows her, so he can admire her, bike.
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post #10173 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
Look at the source info in the picture, it's the Samsung.
Good point. Thanks. I missed that.

Then i guess the projctor is projecting rec2020 eshift sdr?

Strange to see it listed here as 12 bit since the player should be putting out 10bit color.
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post #10174 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Good point. Thanks. I missed that.

Then i guess the projctor is projecting rec2020 eshift sdr?

Strange to see it listed here as 12 bit since the player should be putting out 10bit color.
He may have deep color on. If so, he should turn it off.
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post #10175 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 07:46 PM
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Craig,

I couldn't get 4k no matter what I tried UNTIL I disconnected the power at K8500 AND JVC 400. I put HDMI into Port 1 and got it to synch.. Now it works mint. EDID B.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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post #10176 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Hey Claw have you read any confirmation post/info what 1005 actually did for the 8500?

I'm also really surprised that JVC hasn't released another FW update to fix GammaD unless they feel it's not their issue?
The whole gamma D thing seems to be poorly set up. Given a screen size, screen gain, aperture, and buib settings, the maximum on screen output level is defined. With that defined, (IMHO), you should be able to set what output level corresponds to the 50% input level, the output level that tone making should start, and perhaps some control for how quickly it moves to full scale white.

For example, say you have the RS600 and you set high lamp, manual aperture such that you have 1500 lumens. With a 1.3 gain, 120" 16:9 screen. You should get 156 nits for peak brightness.

Now supose you decide to you want the 50% video input to correspond to 48 nits, instead of 100 Nits as specified in ST2084. Why would you want to do this? First because 48 nits peak brightness is the same level standard movies are graded for in the theater, and second, because it gives some room for the HDR effect (in this case 3:1, from 48 to 150 nits to tone map highlights).

So I envision controls where you would set the peak brightness in nits, followed by the 50% brightness (say from 40-150 nits), and a control which changes the shape of the curve from the 50% level to the 100% level.

Alternatively (with the same screen), one could select 100 Nits for the 50% input level and only have 50 nits to tone map from 100 to 150 nits.

Also alternatively, one could lower the manual iris setting such that only 1000 lumen are projected, resulting in only 100 Nits peak output (but with much higher on/off contrast). Then setting the 50% level to 70 Nits would effectively be equivalent to SDR (with inputs from 50%-100% mapped to 70 nits-100 nits).

With these controls, the user can trade off HDR/brightness for contrast and black level performance the JVCs are known for.

I'm sure there are some issues with what I am proposing, but I believe there should be a way to set this up better than the current method.
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post #10177 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
thankyou Kevin ! picked up a 10m network cable so will get BT2020 loaded up later today I noticed settings in the jvc, I presume once have loaded up Bt2020 I do steps 1 & 2(using the software) ? in their procedure below ?
http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/d...rs400_uhd.html

or is it just step 2 ?

also I dont see anything in their doc re "the K8500 Br/Ct" or is that another jvc doc I should be looking at ? thanks in advance.

the rev....I tell you I couldnt resist I watched about an hour of it last night...oh yeah ! great on blu-ray I cant wait to check out on uhd. but the way I was quite taken aback to be honest even audio wise gee there is so much going on with 3D audio in this using neural X even though its not even a full DTS-X title. love the bugs flying around in the forest and trickling of the streams and cracks of twigs and rustling of trees over head etc. have loved it so far

still awaiting my samsung though...but hopefully not too far away
Haha… I got burned by this before Al (thinking I had to import BT.2020 yet also complete Step 2). You only need to do Step1 on Gamma D after you import the JVC 2020 or all of step 2 if you decide NOT to import (as a workaround). Some have said they felt after the import the User setting on the K8500 was no longer necessary but IMO you do still need it (even at High lamp & Iris wide open). Also keep in mind Gamma D is for a 100" screen (I go between max 15 & 14 on Pic Tone so play as you wish as you'll "know" why looks right on your system (just like you first reported -25 color when you first got yours and I thought you smoked a full Hooka bowl! ).

I agree 100% on Neural:X especially on The Rev (sounded fan-tas-TEEK!). I can't remember the last time I used DSU (but maybe thats cause most BD's have a DTS soundtrack and it just sounds better).
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post #10178 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Attached is a jpg of the Integral GUI when I selected a 4k60-420 12-bit BT.2020 EDID without HDR and played the Revenant UHD disc. It appears to me that the JVC is getting the 10-bit BT.2020 without HDR. I used the user profile I have set up for UHD HDR but changed Gamma D to my User 1 gamma.

.....................And, how is it? Have you compared to SDR to HDR? Please, do tell
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post #10179 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 08:09 PM
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oooh I got the cables finally for updating the jvc firmware..... and the revenant came in as well ...will this be the first UHD I check out ?



gave the firmware update a go,

got the windows 7 laptop hooked up via the triplet adapter and null cable into the JVC.... following step by step the procedure reading off the macbook as no way want to brick the JVC !



woohoo the very important 3 lights that the update is happening



once done great to see the firmware updated to u83.2



ps where I suspect people go astray in this procedure is in a couple of potential spots... i.e. in the procedure it says first up

"Note: Remove all cables from the projector prior to starting this procedure with the exception of the power cable."

it then says to connect the pc to the projector...and then

"Plug in the AC cord and make sure the STANDBY LED illuminates."

Hello....we missed a step....unplugging the power cable letting it go into standby and all lights are off before ? connecting up to the laptop.

I want to thank people in this thread who have gone to some trouble to list the things to be careful about in updating

anyways step one done... BT2020 settings next.... but need a longer network cable than I have. will grab one tomorrow to hopefully get that done without a fuss

So Al that is you on Stereonet I just noticed. Man that is one sleeepy forum, you've nearly got it to yourself there with the JVC discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
thankyou Kevin ! picked up a 10m network cable so will get BT2020 loaded up later today I noticed settings in the jvc, I presume once have loaded up Bt2020 I do steps 1 & 2(using the software) ? in their procedure below ?
http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/d...rs400_uhd.html

or is it just step 2 ?

also I dont see anything in their doc re "the K8500 Br/Ct" or is that another jvc doc I should be looking at ? thanks in advance.


still awaiting my samsung though...but hopefully not too far away
I did the BT.2020 upload by connecting my X7000 to my office network and literally had it sitting on the floor. Piece of cake one you get it's IP address, the Calibration software found it no probs at and and the upload was sorted really quickly.

Samsung's tool menu is where you access the picture controls, select user and it will take you into them.

I moved over to Ekki's revised UHD HDR settings last night. I tested against the Sony test pattern and sure enough I only needed one step in brightness to get the ramp pattern to resolve correctly. I still feel though I will need to go in and adjust at the Samsung a bit. I was playing the Sony 'Camp' HDR clip through the Samsung and found that I had to back down on the setting quite a bit as it was clipping white so bad I couldn't make out the Sony HDR logo in the corner till I did. Earlier I'd found it much easier to tweak the user controls in the Samsung to get a great result with only minor adjustments of the JVC advised HDR settings (be they high Nit level orientated or not). I threw on The Revenant and continued from where I was view the other night. I had really liked it the way I had it, so I think I'll have another look tonight at the Samsung CT/BR settings. I've got a Panasonic arriving this week as well, but given the feedback about black levels, I'm not so inclined to worry to much about it until there's a solution (or my 5000 arrives).
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post #10180 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Originally Posted by nathan_h
Good point. Thanks. I missed that.

Then i guess the projctor is projecting rec2020 eshift sdr?

Strange to see it listed here as 12 bit since the player should be putting out 10bit color.


He may have deep color on. If so, he should turn it off.
No. The selected custom EDID supports up to 12-bit. If you look at the status image again, the Integral is reporting that it is receiving 4:4:4 10-bit from the Samsung. The RS500 reports 10-bit and No HDR.

Busy watching Game of Thrones, Fear the Walking Dead, and series conclusion episode of The Good Wife from Directv. Game of Thrones looks especially good on the RS500 (e-Shift on) considering it is TV.

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post #10181 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 09:23 PM
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.....................And, how is it? Have you compared to SDR to HDR? Please, do tell
I have not imported the 2020 profile yet. I used the JVC recommended settings when not importing the profile.

It definitely looks better to me than the REC 709 8-bit playback of UHD Blu Ray did. But I am no expert so I leave that for others.

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post #10182 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 09:30 PM
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...

The bike ride was good, even though it was a bit rainy and windy. 110 miles ! And I had to try and keep up with my wife on her bike-

Looks mostly flat? And, she looks serious! I've got to admit to being passed by serious women on 100 milers. Well... good on them!
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post #10183 of 32133 Old 05-08-2016, 11:44 PM
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I was converting 4K 10bit rec2020 HDR > 4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR from very early in this thread.

Originally the Samsung was not doing a correct HDR > SDR conversion, but they fixed that early on.

To me this is the only way to go, and I completely agree with Joe Kane's comments on SDR being a better and potentially more dynamic option to HDR.

With SDR I get far better black levels, because I can run the power in low power mode with the iris at -10, and still have use to the auto iris if desired. For HDR you have to run the unit wide open to get enough standard image brightness, which greatly elevates the black floor, just to save room for "spectacular highlights".

I now have both the JVC RS600 and a Sony 5000ES, and both units preform way better with 4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR.

HDR is a mess. There is no standard from disc to disc, and ultimately limits the contrast range available for the vast majority of the movie, because so much is reserved for "highlights".

The integral is the best tool in the tool box at this point it time. Incredible device to have. SDR is a must on a JVC, especially when most people buy the JVC over other units specifically because of the incredible native contrast.

4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR should become the standard setup for projectors. This is really no different then what people have been doing when setting a projector up to resolve 16-235 and clipping everything from 235 - 255. While there might be occasional super white info, most didn't want to throw away the extra dynamic range for those rare occasions.

This has also been discussed at length as a problem with TV sets as well.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm

Last edited by ccool96; 05-08-2016 at 11:49 PM.
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post #10184 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 12:21 AM
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Hey guys, I am running into a problem last night.

I have my htpc outputting 4k/24p. And when I tried to switch to a 1080/60p source my screen would go fuzzy green.

It wasn't until I restarted my projector where it would sync again. Later on in the night it happened again. This time I switched my receiver to upconvert the source to 4k/24p and it synced.

So what's the issue here? My avr, HDMI cable, or God forbid my JVC (replacement model).
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post #10185 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 12:33 AM
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Haha… I got burned by this before Al (thinking I had to import BT.2020 yet also complete Step 2). You only need to do Step1 on Gamma D after you import the JVC 2020 or all of step 2 if you decide NOT to import (as a workaround). Some have said they felt after the import the User setting on the K8500 was no longer necessary but IMO you do still need it (even at High lamp & Iris wide open). Also keep in mind Gamma D is for a 100" screen (I go between max 15 & 14 on Pic Tone so play as you wish as you'll "know" why looks right on your system (just like you first reported -25 color when you first got yours and I thought you smoked a full Hooka bowl! ).

I agree 100% on Neural:X especially on The Rev (sounded fan-tas-TEEK!). I can't remember the last time I used DSU (but maybe thats cause most BD's have a DTS soundtrack and it just sounds better).
AWESOME thanks for confirming thanks for the heads up as was not totally clear with just reading that jvc sheet. seems pretty straight forward then am happy to play ...lets see what I come up with

wiht neural X there was an F-me moment in revenant ... the one where theyre in the hut getting paid out...and the guy walks over to back of the hut goes up the stairs and then up above you walks around in the room above then comes back towards the stairs walks down and back across the room...how amazing is that in neural X following his footsteps around the place up and down and above you flippin heck !
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post #10186 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
So Al that is you on Stereonet I just noticed. Man that is one sleeepy forum, you've nearly got it to yourself there with the JVC discussion



I did the BT.2020 upload by connecting my X7000 to my office network and literally had it sitting on the floor. Piece of cake one you get it's IP address, the Calibration software found it no probs at and and the upload was sorted really quickly.

Samsung's tool menu is where you access the picture controls, select user and it will take you into them.

I moved over to Ekki's revised UHD HDR settings last night. I tested against the Sony test pattern and sure enough I only needed one step in brightness to get the ramp pattern to resolve correctly. I still feel though I will need to go in and adjust at the Samsung a bit. I was playing the Sony 'Camp' HDR clip through the Samsung and found that I had to back down on the setting quite a bit as it was clipping white so bad I couldn't make out the Sony HDR logo in the corner till I did. Earlier I'd found it much easier to tweak the user controls in the Samsung to get a great result with only minor adjustments of the JVC advised HDR settings (be they high Nit level orientated or not). I threw on The Revenant and continued from where I was view the other night. I had really liked it the way I had it, so I think I'll have another look tonight at the Samsung CT/BR settings. I've got a Panasonic arriving this week as well, but given the feedback about black levels, I'm not so inclined to worry to much about it until there's a solution (or my 5000 arrives).
oh yeah thats me, its a stereo place mainly but theres a few projector nuts amongst us e.g. hatless and the like that post here too. beats dtv which is pretty much troll central of late have noticed well between that and the narrow-minded types locked in their little sphere of knowledge...never mind nothing beats this place for the kind of in-depth knowledge and info particularly hands on from end users and people in the trade, professional reviewers and the like

getting my sammy tomorrow, has come in the shop. hopefully the bt2020 side all goes well tonight so case of plug in and play later tomorrow or wed sometime

interesting your notes re settings in the sammy...ive decided to buy a cheapo sammy remote off eBay under $10 but should be better than the sammy supplied unit so hopefully can play with sony patterns and the like as well.

am hoping dont have to tweak too much... eventually looking for a pro calibration so as long as can get pretty decent and a step up from blu-ray I will be pretty happy.

wow pana and now a 5000 as well gee ! you will have some lovely toys to play with. I've got a pana on order from amazon but its not looking to ship till early to mid june ! :roll eyes: lets see how I go with the sammy ...if am happy enough I might even cancel the pana and wait till its released locally or maybe even better options e.g. the likely oppo or whatever when it eventuates.... just hoping to not invest too much on 1st gen players. the sammy is good that way...but not sure want to spend twice as much on the pana...but hey if the pana works even better with the jvc then might be convinced so look forward to your thoughts on the combination

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post #10187 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 12:49 AM
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OK brother, I bought the Samsung today ! Updated the RS600 firmware - easy. Same with updating the Sammy firmware. Haven't downloaded the BT 2020 colorspace yet. I have had no luck getting the Sammy to output 4K - only 1080p. Tried forcing it a couple of times. HDMI cable issue perhaps ? I'm trying the IBRA 4K passive HDMI cables a customer recommended. Maybe I shoukd go direct to the RS600 and bypass my X7200WA.
this is what I am hoping doesnt happen when I finally hook up with the sammy uhd ! I plan to be first trying my few years old "high speed" lets see how goes

ps you are a braver man than me...I saw the IBRA cable mentioned in this thread...went to amazon and then read the feedback which had me back away real quick. and I dont think that was even with uhd ! have you got any other cable to try ? might atleast show if there is any other result ? I hate the current cable situation...especially since have to use one thats 10m / 35ft long. I cannot believe we have a format launched ... gear in the market and you cant get cables you know will just work ! anyways hope things work out...will be keeping and eye and fingers crossed

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post #10188 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 03:40 AM
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At least with the Panasonic HDR to SDR conversion, there is no need to change the settings when playing a Fox movie mastered to 1200nits and a Warner movie mastered to 4000nits.
Is the statement about the 1200nits Fox / 4000nits Warner just a guess or is there some evidence already behind the scenes?
I am also thinking that the max output will change in the future but have not come across any real plans so far...
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post #10189 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 05:04 AM
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oh yeah thats me, its a stereo place mainly but theres a few projector nuts amongst us e.g. hatless and the like that post here too. beats dtv which is pretty much troll central of late have noticed well between that and the narrow-minded types locked in their little sphere of knowledge...never mind nothing beats this place for the kind of in-depth knowledge and info particularly hands on from end users and people in the trade, professional reviewers and the like
Yeah DTV is pretty dead it seems... And there are some strong opinions over there. AVS feels so much more like a collaboration of thoughts and discovery.
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post #10190 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 05:39 AM
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hi Jav ! good to see you, this is definitely the plan to be

Guys I loaded up the jvc autocal program tonight on the laptop...got the jvc talking over the network. downloaded the BT2020 colour profile needed for UHD and uploaded it successfully up into the JVC
 
[img=https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7567/26911183005_70b3bae78c_c.jpg]

though loading the BT2020 wasnt all smooth sailing .... I had my fair share of hiccups ...all self induced... 1st'ly I think was my own network that tapped into that just happened to create a IP conflict. never mind rebooted my modem router to solve that.

the jvc picking up the network no problem and the system checked it to confirm.then of course I made the mistake of using the blu-ray as source ... just on its menu not using a disc... of course it put it self to sleep with no disc playing hehe stalling the process. swapped to just live tv as source as the autocal program does need some input feeding the jvc. got there in the end ... hooray !
 
had a bit of a play after, setup a custom "UHD" preset with the BT2020 profile and with the suggested settings from JVC.
 
so here we are UHD blu-ray we are now ready and waiting ....

bring on the sammy blu-ray ... hoping to pick it up on way after work
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post #10191 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 05:46 AM
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I was converting 4K 10bit rec2020 HDR > 4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR from very early in this thread.

Originally the Samsung was not doing a correct HDR > SDR conversion, but they fixed that early on.

To me this is the only way to go, and I completely agree with Joe Kane's comments on SDR being a better and potentially more dynamic option to HDR.

With SDR I get far better black levels, because I can run the power in low power mode with the iris at -10, and still have use to the auto iris if desired. For HDR you have to run the unit wide open to get enough standard image brightness, which greatly elevates the black floor, just to save room for "spectacular highlights".

I now have both the JVC RS600 and a Sony 5000ES, and both units preform way better with 4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR.

HDR is a mess. There is no standard from disc to disc, and ultimately limits the contrast range available for the vast majority of the movie, because so much is reserved for "highlights".

The integral is the best tool in the tool box at this point it time. Incredible device to have. SDR is a must on a JVC, especially when most people buy the JVC over other units specifically because of the incredible native contrast.

4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR should become the standard setup for projectors. This is really no different then what people have been doing when setting a projector up to resolve 16-235 and clipping everything from 235 - 255. While there might be occasional super white info, most didn't want to throw away the extra dynamic range for those rare occasions.

This has also been discussed at length as a problem with TV sets as well.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm

I also watched the Joe Kane interview and was impressed by what he said.
When the new Panasonic UHD player is released in the U.S. will you still need to use the Integral to obtain SDR from the Panny?
Or should I pickup an Integral HD Fury?
Thanks.


Ray

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post #10192 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by muzz View Post
Craig,

I couldn't get 4k no matter what I tried UNTIL I disconnected the power at K8500 AND JVC 400. I put HDMI into Port 1 and got it to synch.. Now it works mint. EDID B.

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Can you elaborate the steps please? (I'm having cable issues and have an issue with my 30ft redmere cabernet, and ordered a fusion 4k hdmi 30 ft from amazon. My 3ft bluejeans cable works fine)

You unplug both the k8500 and JVC.
Then plug the hdmi cable into HDMI1 on the JVC.
Then power on both the k8500 and JVC.
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post #10193 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 07:39 AM
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I unplugged both the 8500 and the RS400 for a few, I moved my HDMI cable from Port 2 to port 1. I set EDID to B, everytime I tried A it failed.
Powered on the PJ, then powered on the 8500.
I set the 400 to MPC-ON(4K).

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post #10194 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjenkins95 View Post
I also watched the Joe Kane interview and was impressed by what he said.
When the new Panasonic UHD player is released in the U.S. will you still need to use the Integral to obtain SDR from the Panny?
Or should I pickup an Integral HD Fury?
Thanks.


Ray
I'm curious about this also as I intend to dive into UHD at some point during the 3+ years I intend to us my RS600. The projector market is so tiny compared to flat panels that the workarounds discussed here may become invaluable for the medium to long term. Hopefully, some of you can bubble up concerns to Panasonic, Oppo, etc so that projector owns can get the most out of UHD without extra electronics in the chain.

I do tend to wonder how many long-time projector owners would switch to, say, an 85" (16x9) OLED which has all the brightness, black levels, and colors etc that anyone could reasonably hope for? I mean, quality is my highest priority, but such a downgrade in size would, in my view, fail to deliver an acceptable home theater experience (irrespective of "perfect UHD/HDR").
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post #10195 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I was converting 4K 10bit rec2020 HDR > 4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR from very early in this thread.

Originally the Samsung was not doing a correct HDR > SDR conversion, but they fixed that early on.

To me this is the only way to go, and I completely agree with Joe Kane's comments on SDR being a better and potentially more dynamic option to HDR.

With SDR I get far better black levels, because I can run the power in low power mode with the iris at -10, and still have use to the auto iris if desired. For HDR you have to run the unit wide open to get enough standard image brightness, which greatly elevates the black floor, just to save room for "spectacular highlights".

I now have both the JVC RS600 and a Sony 5000ES, and both units preform way better with 4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR.

HDR is a mess. There is no standard from disc to disc, and ultimately limits the contrast range available for the vast majority of the movie, because so much is reserved for "highlights".

The integral is the best tool in the tool box at this point it time. Incredible device to have. SDR is a must on a JVC, especially when most people buy the JVC over other units specifically because of the incredible native contrast.

4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR should become the standard setup for projectors. This is really no different then what people have been doing when setting a projector up to resolve 16-235 and clipping everything from 235 - 255. While there might be occasional super white info, most didn't want to throw away the extra dynamic range for those rare occasions.

This has also been discussed at length as a problem with TV sets as well.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm
If I understand properly, the way you are going about it, you get the expanded color space and resolution from UHD, and not the HDR, right?

That being the case: What kind of differences are you seeing between standard Blu-Ray and UHD Blu-Ray in your set up, that makes UHD worth it? Thanks.
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post #10196 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
I'm curious about this also as I intend to dive into UHD at some point during the 3+ years I intend to us my RS600. The projector market is so tiny compared to flat panels that the workarounds discussed here may become invaluable for the medium to long term. Hopefully, some of you can bubble up concerns to Panasonic, Oppo, etc so that projector owns can get the most out of UHD without extra electronics in the chain.

I do tend to wonder how many long-time projector owners would switch to, say, an 85" (16x9) OLED which has all the brightness, black levels, and colors etc that anyone could reasonably hope for? I mean, quality is my highest priority, but such a downgrade in size would, in my view, fail to deliver an acceptable home theater experience (irrespective of "perfect UHD/HDR").
Until they can match my current size, no chance for the HT. Maybe for the living room.

85" vs. 142" 16:9

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post #10197 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Sweet... (finally!)!

So do you have the Samsung set to 'Auto' and do you have the Denon set not to do any conversions? Try also forcing 2160 on the Denon. If all that either doesn't apply or doesn't work then I'm afraid it's the EDID Shark from your cable.
I decided to try using two HDMI cables - one to the RS600 and one to the Denon for audio ( after I watched The Revenant on Blu ray with friends - that is a great INTENSE movie ! ). I'm trying these cheap not active cable i was told work. Anyway, I was able to get a 4K picture no problem. I do get drop outs where the screen goes blank and comes back up 15 seconds later. Another interesting thing - it's not forcing Gamma D. I'll try a different cable and play more tonight.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
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post #10198 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I was converting 4K 10bit rec2020 HDR > 4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR from very early in this thread.

Originally the Samsung was not doing a correct HDR > SDR conversion, but they fixed that early on.

To me this is the only way to go, and I completely agree with Joe Kane's comments on SDR being a better and potentially more dynamic option to HDR.

With SDR I get far better black levels, because I can run the power in low power mode with the iris at -10, and still have use to the auto iris if desired. For HDR you have to run the unit wide open to get enough standard image brightness, which greatly elevates the black floor, just to save room for "spectacular highlights".

I now have both the JVC RS600 and a Sony 5000ES, and both units preform way better with 4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR.

HDR is a mess. There is no standard from disc to disc, and ultimately limits the contrast range available for the vast majority of the movie, because so much is reserved for "highlights".

The integral is the best tool in the tool box at this point it time. Incredible device to have. SDR is a must on a JVC, especially when most people buy the JVC over other units specifically because of the incredible native contrast.

4K 10bit Rec2020 SDR should become the standard setup for projectors. This is really no different then what people have been doing when setting a projector up to resolve 16-235 and clipping everything from 235 - 255. While there might be occasional super white info, most didn't want to throw away the extra dynamic range for those rare occasions.

This has also been discussed at length as a problem with TV sets as well.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm
This makes a lot of sense IMO. Quite frankly, the HDR I've seen at Cedia wasn't as impressive as the super high contrast scenes that I've experienced since I got my RS600. I'm not excited to open the iris and run in high lamp. That make no sense to me.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
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post #10199 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I decided to try using two HDMI cables - one to the RS600 and one to the Denon for audio ( after I watched The Revenant on Blu ray with friends - that is a great INTENSE movie ! ). I'm trying these cheap not active cable i was told work. Anyway, I was able to get a 4K picture no problem. I do get drop outs where the screen goes blank and comes back up 15 seconds later. Another interesting thing - it's not forcing Gamma D. I'll try a different cable and play more tonight.
Cool sounds like you're getting there but just know I too get infrequent dropouts on the Sammy menu but not enough for me to start finding new cable solutions (like Mike said I too feel in the new few months even places like Monoprice will start releasing supported cables. Your other cable appears to be able get at least 10g for playing the 24p UHDs but just know BOTH my BT.2020 profiles (the 4K one on User2 from Chad's calibration & the imported JVC one I have on User4), do not auto-engage.


Kevin

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post #10200 of 32133 Old 05-09-2016, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
If I understand properly, the way you are going about it, you get the expanded color space and resolution from UHD, and not the HDR, right?

That being the case: What kind of differences are you seeing between standard Blu-Ray and UHD Blu-Ray in your set up, that makes UHD worth it? Thanks.
I did some testing with my JVC X7000 and Panasonic by using the HDfury Integral in between to force SDR and BT.2020 today.
So basically 4k with expanded color space and without HDR.

The details in black scenes were better but the overall experience was better with HDR. The colors were more saturated and contrast more impressive even while running in low lamp mode with HDR.

Maybe I need some more adjustments but at the moment I do not see an advantage for myself by removing HDR.

I more felt like watching a Blu-Ray instead of a UHD while removing HDR.
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