Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 501 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15001 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
One of the key tests that will need to be done is the Oppo vs. UB900 for the HDR-SDR mapping. The UB900 clearly does a better job here than the Samsung. Will the Oppo meet or exceed in this area? it has to be validated, can't just go on the name here since this is new territory.

The UB900 + HDFury finally has me excited over the UHD format after months of owning the Samsung. Every UHD disk I play so far has looked excellent with UHD SDR BT2020. All the advantages of regular gamma tuning, running low lamp with clamped iris for max contrast and the benefit of the expanded color gamut.

Some may think this is going backwards, but even the very bright 5000ES has struggles with this current HDR format and awaiting firmware updates to help manage HDR.

UHD SDR BT2020 is one heck of a great compromise.
Here's what this means for me… (now that I've waited to see what Oppo offers)… now that you've all but fully blessed the UB900… I'll be getting a fairly significant upgrade over the K8500 as my Christmas present (whether from Panaonic or Oppo cause if the Oppo's better... than that's even better than your already great feedback of the UB900!).

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post #15002 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Every UHD disk I play so far has looked excellent with UHD SDR BT2020. All the advantages of regular gamma tuning, running low lamp with clamped iris for max contrast and the benefit of the expanded color gamut.

Some may think this is going backwards, but even the very bright 5000ES has struggles with this current HDR format and awaiting firmware updates to help manage HDR.

UHD SDR BT2020 is one heck of a great compromise.
After careful and extensive comparisons between HDR and SDR BT2020, I no longer see SDR as a "compromise." In fact, I have not been able to find a single scene where the SDR version did not exceed its HDR counterpart in some way. And that holds true even for reference level HDR material such as the Revenant and the Shallows.

Admittedly, my RS500 has not been professionally calibrated--- It has been auto-caled using a Spyder 5 and JVC software, followed by touch-ups using Chromapure/i1D3 Pro meter--- so perhaps a Pro like Chad could turn the tables in favor of HDR. But from my experience so far, these JVCs (RS500 and RS600) and the Panasonic UB900/HDFury combo are a match made in video heaven.
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post #15003 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
If this ends up being the case that would be awesome news for us!
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
including the 'assuming they do a good job with this'.. they have more time than Panasonic had.. they have to meet or exceed in the HDR-SDR conversion.
Lol. ...that we paid $1,000 for our Panny-Fury combo while Oppo would be doing it all-in-one for half the price. Well, that comes with early adopter territory, I suppose.

You know what, I can't say there's anything wrong with the UB900's HDR-SDR conversion that the 203 should correct. So for me, I'm satisfied either way. For others, it would certainly be good news to see that a new player may squeeze a better showing out of a UHD disc without the need for additional hardware.
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post #15004 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 11:21 AM
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Oh..by "better showing" I meant able to play SDR BT2020 with the the RS500/600 line, if the rumor is true, and not that it will or will not be better than the UB900.
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post #15005 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MUTTS View Post
Long time lurker. After 7-8 years of slowly turning the loft in my barn/outbuilding into a theater I am essentially done.
Should be purchasing equipment in the next few weeks. So torn between the JVC 400-500-600 and the new epson 6040.
Im a sports guy. My family is all about movies. The kids will game some--madden, nba2k, fifa. Offline gaming only and its not as big a priority but Id like to give them the option to do so as its our space--not just mine. The room CAN be a bat cave. Its 20ft wide by 30 feet length. The theater chairs are in the first 19 feet of the room and the back 11 feet contains the bar, bar tv, sitting area. For watching sports there will be some ambient like i suspect from the back of the room as the sports watching environment is a little different than the movie environment.

This is my first projector. Don't plan on an upgrade in the next 1-2 years, it would be more like 5+.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance. Im waffling like you can't imagine.
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post #15006 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Sure,

THX mode should not be used for HDR either, and defnintely not WCG content.

Its only for Rec207 HD content. Its kind of a locked preset as you stated.

Dude… Rec207 is soo 1980's.
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post #15007 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Mike - Haven't opened up the RS500 but plan to this weekend. Will the one you sent me have the latest firmware installed? Also what type of USB to serial adapters/cables is necessary for future firmware upgrades? I have a USB to serial cable that I used with CalMan on my PC and the Radiance for autocal for years which worked great. But I seem to recall that as of a few years ago the JVC units were really picky about what USB to serial cables worked - did they improve that so that it works with lots of cables now or is it still just a couple known good USB to serial cables that will work?
If your cable worked for JVC a few years ago, it will work now, but as for what approved cables: http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/d...dure_u83.2.pdf
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post #15008 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I'm just wondering how RS500/600 owners would rate their PJ's audible noise in low lamp mode with e-shift on? I mean, when the volume outside is quiet, I can hear --but barely-- the PJ fans running with a very, very faint hum (when I listen for it) coming from e-shift being engaged, and that even depends on the angle from where I'm standing.

PJ is 4 ft over head if I were in seating position.
Zero problem for me and projector is closer to me than yours is.
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post #15009 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 12:35 PM
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...question...

...I have a Dish Hopper3 receiver which also allows me to whatch NetFlix. When I watch a NetFlix program which is supposed to be 4k, the JVC RS500 shows that the source is either 1080i or 1080p...shouldn't the JVC show the source as 4K instead of 1080?...

Thanks, in advance

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post #15010 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 12:45 PM
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Question Hmmm… very interesting!

Wow just recv'd this in email and after inspection… this could look very cool on our JVC's!



(click for larger image)
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post #15011 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
After careful and extensive comparisons between HDR and SDR BT2020, I no longer see SDR as a "compromise." In fact, I have not been able to find a single scene where the SDR version did not exceed its HDR counterpart in some way. And that holds true even for reference level HDR material such as the Revenant and the Shallows.

Admittedly, my RS500 has not been professionally calibrated--- It has been auto-caled using a Spyder 5 and JVC software, followed by touch-ups using Chromapure/i1D3 Pro meter--- so perhaps a Pro like Chad could turn the tables in favor of HDR. But from my experience so far, these JVCs (RS500 and RS600) and the Panasonic UB900/HDFury combo are a match made in video heaven.
I spoke with @chadb regarding the calibration he did for me in April and so I am eagerly waiting for some HDR movies to arrive Tuesday and try this out. I thought I had 4k movies but they were all just 3D movies, time to re-order the same movies again.

It's obvious nobody wants to talk to me or answer me, but can someone send me a private mail explaining how to set up this $1,000 combo that I just purchased?

I read a month back about EDID #10 but do I then use EDID #8 when the movie does not have HDR? Also can I use the same Integral for getting SDR 2020 from the Amazon & Netflix HDR movies or do I need to buy another Fury?

Anybody?!? Please !!!
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post #15012 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Travinsky View Post
I spoke with @chadb regarding the calibration he did for me in April and so I am eagerly waiting for some HDR movies to arrive Tuesday and try this out. I thought I had 4k movies but they were all just 3D movies, time to re-order the same movies again.

It's obvious nobody wants to talk to me or answer me, but can someone send me a private mail explaining how to set up this $1,000 combo that I just purchased?

I read a month back about EDID #10 but do I then use EDID #8 when the movie does not have HDR? Also can I use the same Integral for getting SDR 2020 from the Amazon & Netflix HDR movies or do I need to buy another Fury?

Anybody?!? Please !!!
Dude… chill. A lot times when the thread moves quick a question can be overlooked (happens to all of us!), so your protocol would be the "Bump" it (ask the question again referencing your orig post; like yours from the 24th asking help to setup an Integral/Panny combo which not everyone here has BTW).

Yes you use 8 for HDR & 10 for SDR in the Integral (selecting BT.2020 profile for HDR & your normal gamma like Rec709 for SDR on the JVC no matter what your source device is).


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post #15013 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Here's what this means for me… (now that I've waited to see what Oppo offers)… now that you've all but fully blessed the UB900… I'll be getting a fairly significant upgrade over the K8500 as my Christmas present (whether from Panaonic or Oppo cause if the Oppo's better... than that's even better than your already great feedback of the UB900!).
christmas present ? gee your patient ! am hoping its november for the oppo as all hints seem to indicate

am sure when christmas comes along there'll be some chrissie present I can figure out to give my self as well

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post #15014 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 02:54 PM
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Yes, that's what I meant: that the EDID would be seen differently, causing the player to output a different profile.
FWIW, you've got it backwards, the Integral changes how the player sees the diplay's EDID, which changes how the player functions. The statement you were looking at was about the player changing what it outputs which would change how the display operates.

The second point, about having 4 options for HDR/SDR output is what would potentially (hopefully) eliminate the need for an Integral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTTS View Post
Long time lurker. After 7-8 years of slowly turning the loft in my barn/outbuilding into a theater I am essentially done.
Should be purchasing equipment in the next few weeks. So torn between the JVC 400-500-600 and the new epson 6040.
I will just say that the Epson's LCD models (x040) are not in the same league as the JVCs, if you're looking for a JVC alternative, you need to be looking at the LS10000 or LS10500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
If this ends up being the case that would be awesome news for us!
Here's hoping, I can't think of any other logical options for a 4-state HDR/SDR setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
After careful and extensive comparisons between HDR and SDR BT2020, I no longer see SDR as a "compromise." In fact, I have not been able to find a single scene where the SDR version did not exceed its HDR counterpart in some way. And that holds true even for reference level HDR material such as the Revenant and the Shallows.
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but there still seems to be a lot of confusion about this. If you're watching UHD Blu-ray, you are watching HDR content. It doesn't matter what the settings are on the player, it doesn't matter if you're using an integral to disable HDR support, it's still HDR content. The only difference between viewing UHD Blu-ray as "HDR" vs "SDR" is where the mapping happens. Disabling HDR via an Integral simply forces the player to do an intermediate HDR to SDR conversion. There's no SDR version on the disc, only the HDR version.

So in other words, it's not really surprising what you say, it's just a case of which device does the conversion better. HDR vs SDR with UHD Blu-ray is basically the same bitstream vs PCM when it comes to audio, where it's just a question of where the decoding happens. HDR vs "SDR" is basically the same thing.
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post #15015 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
christmas present ? gee your patient ! am hoping its november for the oppo as all hints seem to indicate

am sure when christmas comes along there'll be some chrissie present I can figure out to give my self as well
Oh I didn't define the boundaries of "when" my friend (my RS500 was a "Christmas present" which I had up & running & old PJ sold by the time my holiday time started!).
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post #15016 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:23 PM
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Really liking the RS500 and waiting patiently for the Oppo to replace the Samsung. Hoping it does the HDR and HDR to SDR well enough to avoid buying an Integral. Oppo is also good about updates too, so pretty confident that they'll get it right.
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post #15017 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:29 PM
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The biggest complaint that I have concerning my RS500 is that it will likely have to go in for service in order to fix the horizontal shift. I discovered that it does not work at all now. I tried centering the lens again using the menu option, but it's dead Jim. Need to call JVC this week. I'll be headed on a very long vacation around the globe towards the end of October, so will send it out before I leave.

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post #15018 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spcav View Post
The new X7000 (only 30 hours of operation) just failed!

Turned it on, lens cover opens normally, no DILA logo displayed, after 20-30 secs both WARNING and LAMP leds start to blink simultaneously and after 10-20 secs unit shuts down (normally (lens cover close, power led blinking etc)).

After unit shuts down WARNING and LAMP leds keep blinking (power led remains red normally).

According to the manual this is ''abnormal circuit operation'' and suggests power cord disconnect / reconnect.

Tried everything: Keep it off the mains for 10 mins, reconnect to different power outlet with no other cable connected (HDMI etc)) without luck.

Lens cover and air filer ''clean'' (no obstacles of any kind).

Any thoughts?
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Originally Posted by spcav View Post
Well, you were right!

I reconnected the HDMI cable, this time with only the AV Receiver connected and the X7000 came back to life!

Why they don't give such info in the manual (and only mention hardware problems)?

Thx again, you saved me from a lot of trouble!

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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
This can also happen if you send the projector an unsupported resolution. Try using a different source.
I'm having the same issue with a new X750R. When I first got it I fired it up for about 5 minutes without a source connected just playing with lens shift and it was fine. I now have the rest of my equipment and when I turned it on today it did exactly what's described above in the first quote. I've tried no HDMI connected, HDMI connected to Anthem AVM60 with no sources attached, HDMI connect to Anthem with Samsung UHD player attached. Projector connected directly to Samsung. I've left the JVC unplugged for 10/30/120 minute stretches before trying some of this stuff. At times I've had a 1080p LCD television connected via HDMI output 2 on the Anthem and haven't had an issue getting the menu from the Anthem or video from the Samsung. I've also tried using both HDMI 1 out and HDMI 2 out from the Anthem. I don't know what else to do. Suggestions?

Last edited by cvinfig; 10-02-2016 at 03:34 PM.
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post #15019 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:40 PM
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I understand the concept, but I'm lost is some of the details,and wonder if you can provide more specifics. Here are some questions:

1) Is the S-curve you show have the correct parameters as shown in the menu, or is this a generic example, and you need to modify the parameters to your specific situation (e.g what your combined projector/screen/iris setting - peak NIT output is).

2) I assume the X axis of the curve is PQ input code scaled to 0-1. But the Y axis confuses me. Shouldn't it be 0-10K NITS, and be non-linear (like a gamma, or log scale).

3) In one of your previous posts, you explained the 10X rule. From that I would expect one to make the S curve hit 1 on the Y axis when the X input is at a lower value than 1. For example, you showed if your projector can hit 100 NITs peak, you would set the clip point at 1k NITs, which corresponds to X=0.75 (75%).

Finally, I would think you would want to use 2160p24 4:4:4 @ 12 bit from the UHD BD player to the linker, and 1080p24 4:4:4 @ 12 bit to the eeColor. As even though the UHD BD source is only 4:2:0 at 10 bit, there will be bit growth, both in the conversion to 4:4:4 in the UHD BD player, and in the down-conversion to 1080p24 4:4:4 in the linker.

Thanks for all of your efforts (and I like your test pattern disk).
Hi. sorry for the delay, I was sick (flu).

I saw that Steve Shaw answered the questions.

About your question about output from the player, according to HDMI Specs. you can't have 2160p24 (movies framerate) 4:2:0 output, it's restriction of specification. The same is happening with 1080p also, you can output 4:2:0 1080p from a player, only 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 from YCbCr or RGB (which is uncompressed).

So it's up to the user and to each player capabilities to select what output colorspace/bit depth can output. For me it will be better to let the player to do all the colorspace/bit depth processing and send to HD Linker 2160p 10/[email protected] the HD Linker to do only the downscale from 2160p->1080p. This will reduce any unwanted extra colorspace conversions, since eeColor can accept 10/12 bit without problem, and keep the signal to RGB also.

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post #15020 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but there still seems to be a lot of confusion about this. If you're watching UHD Blu-ray, you are watching HDR content. It doesn't matter what the settings are on the player, it doesn't matter if you're using an integral to disable HDR support, it's still HDR content. The only difference between viewing UHD Blu-ray as "HDR" vs "SDR" is where the mapping happens. Disabling HDR via an Integral simply forces the player to do an intermediate HDR to SDR conversion. There's no SDR version on the disc, only the HDR version.
This is the interesting thing and I have commented on this before. I would almost call it an accidental blessing where projectors are concerned.

Its VERY clear that these new UHD Blurays being graded for HDR, or extended dynamic range are most definitely an improvement (when viewed in SDR WCG) over content that has been graded purely for SDR in mind.

The SDR WCG experience of the UHD Blurays do have greater shadow detail and more contrast in the images. This can only come from purposefully grading the film in a way that takes full advantage of a greater dynamic range, knowing that the end user displays are hopefully going to be set up with the ability to dig really deep in shadow detail, and still have lots of gradient steps left on the table for the rest of the image. In saying that, I feel like SDR WCG is particularly well suited to projectors, since for us, having a 30fl image on the screen is almost blinding since the image is far larger vs a typical television where a 30fl image wont seem like much of a deal at all. I calibrate to 15/16fl and I still get blinded when a film transitions to a sudden full white field. In that sense, our deeper black levels or I should say enhanced perception of the image on significantly larger screens than your average television can take full advantage of content graded with more shadow detail and contrast in the image. We dont need 1000 nits of brightness.

Older SDR Bluray, when compared to the SDR WCG version of the UHD Bluray disc feels like its leaving a ton of contrast and deep black shadow detail on the table as it were.

While I don't like 'HDR' on the display side especially where projectors are concerned, I LOVE the fact that films are actually now graded and encoded in a way where our super high contrast projectors can take full advantage of what's on the disc as it were.

All this talk about stops of dynamic range is frankly bullcrap anyway. When I was doing my shootout, and photographing the screen, my DSLR was seeing a full 12 stops of dynamic range on the screen, this is when playing SDR WCG content. The histogram on my camera was full edge to edge. In fact, there was possibly even more range on the screen since when I exposed for the highlights in the image, blacks came out slightly crushed.
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post #15021 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi. sorry for the delay, I was sick (flu).

I saw that Steve Shaw answered the questions.

About your question about output from the player, according to HDMI Specs. you can't have 2160p24 (movies framerate) 4:2:0 output, it's restriction of specification. The same is happening with 1080p also, you can output 4:2:0 1080p from a player, only 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 from YCbCr or RGB (which is uncompressed).

So it's up to the user and to each player capabilities to select what output colorspace/bit depth can output. For me it will be better to let the player to do all the colorspace/bit depth processing and send to HD Linker 2160p 10/[email protected] the HD Linker to do only the downscale from 2160p->1080p. This will reduce any unwanted extra colorspace conversions, since eeColor can accept 10/12 bit without problem, and keep the signal to RGB also.
Hang on, why are you talking about downscaling 2160p UHD BR content to 1080p and feeding to the projector? What is the point of all of this, sorry I didn't understand the original posts a couple pages back.

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post #15022 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print View Post
Thx for noticing. I was trying to use my 2 eeColor LUT boxes for 4k calibration through Integrals new "Screen Split" feature. This would split a 4K stream into 2 2k streams. Ted said it would require 4 streams and 4 eeColors ... too expensive and complicated. Ted's solution is HDR and 1080p based with one eeColor and a linker to down rez 4k to 2k, but still have HDR. The JVC could then up rez it to 4k again. See: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vid...l#post46995249
This would look really bad. You would have half of the detail compared to feeding the JVC a native 4k signal.

The JVC may not be native 4k, but it IS double the resolution of 1080p since the unit samples two full 1080p frames from a single 4k frame when using E-Shift.

Using 1080p as an input resolution and assuming the projector will upscale to 4k is leaving literally 50% of the projectors capable resolution on the table.

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post #15023 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:53 PM
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Hang on, why are you talking about downscaling 2160p UHD BR content to 1080p and feeding to the projector? What is the point of all of this, sorry I didn't understand the original posts a couple pages back.
Take a look here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post47104209

and ask what part of the post you don't understand, it's a solution of providing a 3D LUT based projector profiling since providing 3D LUT for 2160p is currently unavailable.

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post #15024 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Take a look here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post47104209

and ask what part of the post you don't understand, it's a solution of providing a 3D LUT based projector profiling since providing 3D LUT for 2160p is currently unavailable.
Hey Ted,

Thanks, I just went back an reread your post, I understand now. However, you are throwing away 75% of the original resolution by downscaling to 1080p, and then also throwing away 50% of the JVCs resolution capability at the same time since you will no longer be feeding the JVC with a native 4k signal. (Read my post above).

Details Enhancement: For some detail enhancing, a Darbee or e-Shift can be used, to restore some details, which I don't believe it's so much loss (from 2160p -> 1080p downscale) since most of the UHD movies now are just an upscalled 2K master to 2160p.

There will be a lot of loss. Unacceptable as a solution I am sorry unless you can somehow get a 4k device rather than doing any downscaling. I understand a lot of films are 2k DI masters, but this really only from this point on applies to back catalogue titles, from this day forward probably 75-80% of all films will be mastered in 4k and this argument will no longer be valid. You would need to use something like MadVR before the final image enters the projector so the projector sees a native UHD Signal, but throwing away 75% of the original resolution, doing some tone mapping and then up-scaling the 25% version back to 100% is seriously compromised solution for what it is you are trying to achieve. You are cutting off your hand to spite your foot.

Go into photoshop, and resize a 4k image to 25% of its original 2160p resolution (1080p), save the image, close the program, reopen it, and then up-scale that image to 2160p and compare to the original, its going to look nothing like it.

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post #15025 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post

... since for us, having a 30fl image on the screen is almost blinding since the image is far larger vs a typical television where a 30fl image wont seem like much of a deal at all. I calibrate to 15/16fl and I still get blinded when a film transitions to a sudden full white field.

...We dont need 1000 nits of brightness.

...
+1. I totally agree.

So how large do you think the screen was that Dolby used when they determined many people liked peak screen brightness at 10k NITs?

I doubt they would have reached the same results if the screen size was 120"-150".
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post #15026 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 04:36 PM
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I read a month back about EDID #10 but do I then use EDID #8 when the movie does not have HDR? Also can I use the same Integral for getting SDR 2020 from the Amazon & Netflix HDR movies or do I need to buy another Fury?
Note that I have the Integral and the Samsung player, not the Panasonic.

If you mostly want HDR BT.2020, then leave the Integral at EDID 8 and only change to 10 when you want SDR BT.2020.

If you mostly want SDR BT.2020, then leave the Integral at EDID 10 and only change to 8 when you want HDR.

You can leave the EDID at either 8 or 10 when watching non-HDR REC709 content such as Blu-Ray discs. The REC709 playback won't be affected by the EDID.

I don't have the UB900 so I can't comment on its Netflix and Amazon Apps. With the Samsung player I have been able to get SDR BT.2020 from Amazon UHD HDR content using Integral EDID 10 . But I find that the UHD HDR content from Amazon video looks pretty good in HDR with EDID 8. There is no reason to buy a second Integral; the Panasonic has only 1 HDMI output for video.
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post #15027 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 04:50 PM
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Hey Ted,

Thanks, I just went back an reread your post, I understand now. However, you are throwing away 75% of the original resolution by downscaling to 1080p, and then also throwing away 50% of the JVCs resolution capability at the same time since you will no longer be feeding the JVC with a native 4k signal. (Read my post above).

Details Enhancement: For some detail enhancing, a Darbee or e-Shift can be used, to restore some details, which I don't believe it's so much loss (from 2160p -> 1080p downscale) since most of the UHD movies now are just an upscalled 2K master to 2160p.

There will be a lot of loss. Unacceptable as a solution I am sorry unless you can somehow get a 4k device rather than doing any downscaling. I understand a lot of films are 2k DI masters, but this really only from this point on applies to back catalogue titles, from this day forward probably 75-80% of all films will be mastered in 4k and this argument will no longer be valid. You would need to use something like MadVR before the final image enters the projector so the projector sees a native UHD Signal, but throwing away 75% of the original resolution, doing some tone mapping and then up-scaling the 25% version back to 100% is seriously compromised solution for what it is you are trying to achieve. You are cutting off your hand to spite your foot.

Go into photoshop, and resize a 4k image to 25% of its original 2160p resolution (1080p), save the image, close the program, reopen it, and then up-scale that image to 2160p and compare to the original, its going to look nothing like it.
Hi, I prefer better a lower resolution (but 10/12bit bit depth) and larger gamut (REC.2020) but accurate and calibrated colors of whole video signal (not only 6 colors from primary's/secondary's....but some thousands colors), so the picture will become more like-like and accurate colors gradations/gamma/depth than a native 4K uncalibrated signal with sun-burned faces and glowing grass etc....facts will not let you enjoy a movie playback if your are familiar with display calibration and calibrated colors.

If I resize @ 25% a 2160p still image it will give me a 960x540px image.

You can't use MadVR.since it's supporting only file playback (not live stream), you can't add a video capture card that captures 1080p video realtime to go throu MadVR etc.

Also if you want to feed the projector with 2160p, you can add another one HD Linker to the output of eeColor to upscale 1080p->2160p.

95% of the released UHD tittles are all coming from 2k masters, 2k masters are the ones you see @ theatrical releases, I don't see any problem with resolution with that.

I posted an idea, everyone has it's own priorities and requirements when he is watching a movie.

So from me who is watching movies with 3D LUT color calibrated system with about 10.000 colors from 2012, using my own lab-grade meters (see signature), it's more important the color fidelity than resolution.

I will like better a 1080p REC.2020 10/12bit than 2160p with tons of color errors, don't forget we are talking especially to a JVC which is not a native 2160p device.

Don't forget we are talking for what is happening to current HDR/UHD disk status, and what someone can do if he wants accurate colors now with current hardware and with limited gamut coverage current devices have.
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post #15028 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 05:30 PM
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This is the interesting thing and I have commented on this before. I would almost call it an accidental blessing where projectors are concerned.

Its VERY clear that these new UHD Blurays being graded for HDR, or extended dynamic range are most definitely an improvement (when viewed in SDR WCG) over content that has been graded purely for SDR in mind.

The SDR WCG experience of the UHD Blurays do have greater shadow detail and more contrast in the images. This can only come from purposefully grading the film in a way that takes full advantage of a greater dynamic range, knowing that the end user displays are hopefully going to be set up with the ability to dig really deep in shadow detail, and still have lots of gradient steps left on the table for the rest of the image. In saying that, I feel like SDR WCG is particularly well suited to projectors, since for us, having a 30fl image on the screen is almost blinding since the image is far larger vs a typical television where a 30fl image wont seem like much of a deal at all. I calibrate to 15/16fl and I still get blinded when a film transitions to a sudden full white field. In that sense, our deeper black levels or I should say enhanced perception of the image on significantly larger screens than your average television can take full advantage of content graded with more shadow detail and contrast in the image. We dont need 1000 nits of brightness.
Yeah, I'm just waiting for the day we don't have to rely on kludges and workarounds. If Panasonic (or hopefully Oppo) can figure out how to map ST.2084 to Gamma well, surely JVC or someone can figure out how to handle ST.2084 well, without it having to be converted to something else first.
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post #15029 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 05:51 PM
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Wow just recv'd this in email and after inspection… this could look very cool on our JVC's!


Black & chrome edition would be cool but, no WCG is a deal breaker for me.
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post #15030 of 32133 Old 10-02-2016, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
About your question about output from the player, according to HDMI Specs. you can't have 2160p24 (movies framerate) 4:2:0 output, it's restriction of specification. The same is happening with 1080p also, you can output 4:2:0 1080p from a player, only 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 from YCbCr or RGB (which is uncompressed).
Hi Ted,
Any thoughts on why 4k 60p 4:2:0 is HDMI 2.2 supported but 24p 4:2:0 is not? It would seem a lot easier for the player to avoid any conversions and just output what is on the disc, 2k or 4k 4:2:0. The display converts whatever it receives to whatever it uses internally no matter what it receives, so why not save some conversions (which could be incorrect) and a lot of cable bandwidth.
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