Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 503 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15061 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Oh I just meant for 1080p (AFAIK it's not a 4K release… this might look very cool on our BCM's in B/W & I'm gonna double dip when it comes out)!
Triple dip!
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post #15062 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print View Post
Large exposure levels are still overlapping in dolby's examples ... just like in your example. Your last photo uses fake "high dynamic range" softwr to combine the top 2 photos. This is a well known "artistic" technique that some photographers earn their living by doing. Dolby's examples are from one camera shot, no fake "high dynamic range" sftwr. Maybe these shots are not as extreme as your example ... I give you that.
I guess my illustrations distracted from my point. When I look at those Dolby examples, the SDR side just looks like it has an artificially elevated black level, and artificially reduced saturation. To me neither side has blown out highlights or crushed blacks like you'd expect to see.

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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I am not saying HDR should not exist. But there is already 12 stops or more dynamic range on my projection screen when I am viewing SDR WCG. Content that has been graded for HDR taking advantage of the extra gradations but played back in SDR looks far better to my eyes than HDR does at this point.
That's because you're still viewing HDR, just with an intermediate remapping to another EOTF. And FWIW, I'm trying to back you up with that statement
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post #15063 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cvinfig View Post
Is there any way to force a hard reset when turning on the projector? I have a brand new X750R that shuts down within 20-30 seconds of turning it on and the Lamp and Warning lights blink simultaneously. More info in this post.

Thanks,
--Chuck
Sorry to hear about the issue. Maybe it is something simple, like the lamp door not being fully secure?
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post #15064 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print View Post
The bulb changes a lot in brightness in the first 200 hours. Wait for the bulb to stabilize ... in the meantime, enjoy really bright pictures ... great for 3D and HDR.
Funnily, mine has not changed much so far (~240 hours). Brightness increased slightly after around 80 hours and has now dropped back to the starting point again (-2%, could be measurement variance).
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post #15065 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MacFreibier View Post
Funnily, mine has not changed much so far (~240 hours). Brightness increased slightly after around 80 hours and has now dropped back to the starting point again (-2%, could be measurement variance).
Yes. At 450 hours mine is still delivering 29fL at the screen. It was 30fL when new. I'm doubting my measurement technique! But my eyes tell me it's still plenty bright.
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post #15066 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I guess my illustrations distracted from my point. When I look at those Dolby examples, the SDR side just looks like it has an artificially elevated black level, and artificially reduced saturation. To me neither side has blown out highlights or crushed blacks like you'd expect to see.
.
.
.


I understand what you mean. Dolby is simulating this ... just like JVC simulates its exposure photos to see the difference between modifying the same picture with gamma higher and lower (see p36 of JVC user manual). To see the difference in real life, I agree with Javs who said one needs an HDR display (and content) to realistically see Dolby's HDR vs STD examples ... they are just simulations of what STD vs HDR improvement would look like. Your example, actually, is more realistic ... because the first 2 photos are real. The third photo is a simulation of high dynamic range because we are looking at it with SDR pc's.


Long time ago (it seems like), I timidly asked the question on the HDR cal thread "what does high dynamic range movie look like". Eventually, I came up with a similar answer to yours! There's more info on f-stops in this post. See 1 below. Also, check out EvLee's posts ... his answers provide more insight and make more sense ... now that we actually have seen HDR on the big screen. See 2 and 3 below. Maybe we should encourage EvLee to buy a JVC HDR projector just to get his insight and input. lol.


1. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post39930002


2. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post39714106


3. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post39840290
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post #15067 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
This is the interesting thing and I have commented on this before. I would almost call it an accidental blessing where projectors are concerned.

Its VERY clear that these new UHD Blurays being graded for HDR, or extended dynamic range are most definitely an improvement (when viewed in SDR WCG) over content that has been graded purely for SDR in mind.

The SDR WCG experience of the UHD Blurays do have greater shadow detail and more contrast in the images. This can only come from purposefully grading the film in a way that takes full advantage of a greater dynamic range, knowing that the end user displays are hopefully going to be set up with the ability to dig really deep in shadow detail, and still have lots of gradient steps left on the table for the rest of the image. In saying that, I feel like SDR WCG is particularly well suited to projectors, since for us, having a 30fl image on the screen is almost blinding since the image is far larger vs a typical television where a 30fl image wont seem like much of a deal at all. I calibrate to 15/16fl and I still get blinded when a film transitions to a sudden full white field. In that sense, our deeper black levels or I should say enhanced perception of the image on significantly larger screens than your average television can take full advantage of content graded with more shadow detail and contrast in the image. We dont need 1000 nits of brightness.

Older SDR Bluray, when compared to the SDR WCG version of the UHD Bluray disc feels like its leaving a ton of contrast and deep black shadow detail on the table as it were.

While I don't like 'HDR' on the display side especially where projectors are concerned, I LOVE the fact that films are actually now graded and encoded in a way where our super high contrast projectors can take full advantage of what's on the disc as it were.

All this talk about stops of dynamic range is frankly bullcrap anyway. When I was doing my shootout, and photographing the screen, my DSLR was seeing a full 12 stops of dynamic range on the screen, this is when playing SDR WCG content. The histogram on my camera was full edge to edge. In fact, there was possibly even more range on the screen since when I exposed for the highlights in the image, blacks came out slightly crushed.
Very interesting points you're making. This is why I hope a good internal HDR to SDR remapping system will become standard in all UHD blu-ray players going forward. Hopefully Oppo can pave the way with their upcoming UDP203 player and others follow. Fingers crossed that it does as good of a job at the remapping as the Panasonic UB900 does. As you say, it really seems like SDR/2020 is going to be the best option for UHD blu-ray on projectors for a very long time.

By the way, is there any reason why remapping has to do be done in the player? It would be nice if the projector itself could remap the signal as well. Eventually all of this really needs to get to a point of ease of use where you just choose what kind of signal you want in a menu, and the device, be it the display or player, just does it for you.

Last edited by kohe321; 10-03-2016 at 11:30 AM.
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post #15068 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MacFreibier View Post
Funnily, mine has not changed much so far (~240 hours). Brightness increased slightly after around 80 hours and has now dropped back to the starting point again (-2%, could be measurement variance).
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Yes. At 450 hours mine is still delivering 29fL at the screen. It was 30fL when new. I'm doubting my measurement technique! But my eyes tell me it's still plenty bright.


That's great news about JVC projector bulbs. In the THX class I took in 2012, Gregg/Mike said projectors (in general) lose up to 50% of their brightness within 200 hrs (?) then stabilize. May not reflective of JVC projectors? So, if this is true with our JVC bulbs, fantastic ... more reason to have a JVC projector ... great long lasting bulbs that rarely fluxuate!


Regarding luminance meter readings, my K10A luminance readings were initially off by 30% compared to the PR670. Klein's Luhr Jensen (CEO and brains of Klein) said 30% was not that far off (WTF). Over time, the K10A's luminance has gotten closer to PR-670 ... no idea why ... I sent the K10A one time for an upgrade. I've had the PR670 calibrated (by Photo Research to laboratory grade stds) 2x, and it barely changes. +1 I rarely remember absolute luminance output of the projector. Most of the stuff I do has to do with "relative luminance" measurements ... that's entirely different now with HDR ... HDR is all about absolute luminance measurements. Guess I better get on board.

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post #15069 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 12:03 PM
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OK if I get an RS600 what is the best calibration I should start with if I don't feel like forking an other $500 for pro-calibration.

Which to be honest last time I did it was a great disappointment!
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post #15070 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbon Ft Print View Post
That's great news about JVC projector bulbs. In the THX class I took in 2012, Gregg/Mike said projectors (in general) lose up to 50% of their brightness within 200 hrs (?) then stabilize.
...
I think that's an over-statement. I don't think even the worst of the JVC bulbs lost that much in 200 hours... except the ones that exploded, I guess. They pretty much lost 100%. And that older generation JVC bulb is the worst I've ever heard of. But I don't go looking for that info either.
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post #15071 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
OK if I get an RS600 what is the best calibration I should start with if I don't feel like forking an other $500 for pro-calibration.

Which to be honest last time I did it was a great disappointment!
Contact Chad B and I bet the price will be lower than $500. You will not be disappointed with him as I and others can attest.
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post #15072 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 12:17 PM
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Hi Ted,
Any thoughts on why 4k 60p 4:2:0 is HDMI 2.2 supported but 24p 4:2:0 is not? It would seem a lot easier for the player to avoid any conversions and just output what is on the disc, 2k or 4k 4:2:0. The display converts whatever it receives to whatever it uses internally no matter what it receives, so why not save some conversions (which could be incorrect) and a lot of cable bandwidth.
Hi, The 4:2:0 2160p as you saw to HDMI specs, it's not supported as an output option.

There bandwidth limitations that input/output chips have, there specification of max bit-rate cables can transfer also.

2160p60 @ 4:2:2 will require a lot of bandwidth more that current allowed transmission limit, this is the reason which 2160p60 can be only 4:2:0 at this moment with current hardware/specs.

Content is compressed from RGB to YCbCr 4:2:0 for SDR Full-HD BD or HDR UHD BD delivery, to reduce bandwidth which means smaller file size in discs.

At the end, the signal has to converted back to RGB for the TV/Projector to drive it's sub-pixels.

The question now is what device you will trust to make the required conversions from YCbCr 4:2:0->4:2:2-> 4:4:4->RGB.

There is combination of source/display...some displays work better if they receive a specific colorspace, there players that have superior colorspace conversion pipeline/chips; better from those available inside to a display/projector.

When you do multiple and unwanted extra colorspace conversions; problems with luma/chroma roll-off or clipping can be introduced.

Also the most of the displays, when they receive RGB-Video signal, they converting it to YCbCr for proccesing and then RGB again for the panel.

You need some specific patterns to use, to evaluate these colorspace conversions. When you will have less colorspace conversions and higher-grade...(when you will find out which device to trust for these conversions) then you will have more detail in high-frequency resolution without problems.

For 1080p there patterns for that test in S&M disk. For 2160p colorspace evaluation we don't have tools available in disks right now, we will wait the upcoming S&M 2160p disk to feature similar patterns for this evaluation.

Take a look here:

http://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio...a-color-space/
http://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio...color-space-2/
http://download.oppodigital.com/Docs...valfrom2.3.pdf

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post #15073 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
OK if I get an RS600 what is the best calibration I should start with if I don't feel like forking an other $500 for pro-calibration.

Which to be honest last time I did it was a great disappointment!
It's impossible for us to know whether you got a great calibration before and just didn't like how that looks. Some people don't. That said, we have multiple data points about what Chad can achieve with these projectors, so that is a known quantity. You might not like the results, but we can be confident they will be correct.

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Contact Chad B and I bet the price will be lower than $500. You will not be disappointed with him as I and others can attest.
If you are within his range or on the route of one of his tours (typically east of the Rockies) then a standard calibration is $425 (listed on his web site).
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post #15074 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 12:34 PM
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Contact Chad B and I bet the price will be lower than $500. You will not be disappointed with him as I and others can attest.
+2.....He does EXCELLENT work. I have been using him since 2003 on every audio and video system I have owned.
IMO, you won't find someone else that does the quality of work he does at the prices he charges....plus he is very particular and will make sure things look perfect before he leaves.
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post #15075 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 01:33 PM
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If you are within his range or on the route of one of his tours (typically east of the Rockies) then a standard calibration is $425 (listed on his web site).
That's incredible. Up here in Canada, the lowest I was quoted for a full HDR/SDR 2020, Rec 709 and 3D was more than twice that price. Even with our horrendous currency exchange, it's still significantly more than what Chad is charging---and he is supposed to be like the Yoda of calibration.
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post #15076 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 01:38 PM
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That price is listed on his web site for an "ISF calibration". I am not sure if it includes HDR and 2020.

Regardless, he is a good value in terms of cost/results, assuming you want the most accurate picture possible from one of these projectors. (Which isn't to say he is the only person that can get great results from them.)
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post #15077 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
For front projection large screens Dolby has already defined a peak brightness for HDR -- their Dolby Cinema product.

It is 100nits/30ftl.

You can go see it at a local cinema, if you have a Dolby Cinema near you.
So 2x brighter than standard cinema - hardly HDR IMHO, more like SDR+.

I don't know if this reduction in peak brightness vs TV HDR is because they realize high NIT levels make no sense for the large screen, or just because it would be totally impractical to achieve them in a 40ft - 60 ft wide screen.

I believe a good tone mapping of the 1k-4k NIT peak HDR to (say a 100 NIT peak) projector, can be achieved, perhaps with comparable quality to the custom dolby vision grade.

If you look at the process Tedd outlined in post #14880 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post47104209 , (ignor the 1080p part for this part of the discussion, and pretend the eecolor could do 4k).

The process is pretty straight forward, and would allow for the user to adjust the curve for mid gray output level and peak projector output.

Whether any of the UHD BD players will give you controls do to this (or something similar), or whether JVC will in a future firmware update is anyone's guess. And even if they do, will it be better than rec2020 SDR using:

UHD BD HDR disk ->Panasonic UHD BD player-> HDfury->JVC

I have my doubts.
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post #15078 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 02:11 PM
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I heard the 3D on the RS500 is fantastic - looking forward to trying it out. Does anyone know if I can use my old MonsterVision Max 3D RF emitter with the JVC. I used this for years with my Sony VW95 which did not support RF natively, so I had to tape the IR to RF dongle to the spot on the Sony. If this emitter is compatible, how do I re-program it to put out the code for the JVC instead of the Sony? Do I still need to use the IR to RF dongle? Thanks!
Hi, I wouldn't bother with the old MV3D kits, I could never tune them as well as the Xpand 105RF's work out of the box. (MV3D transmitter is proprietary, will not work with JVC or Xpand RF glasses..)

The JVC transmitter is ~ $100, you can get an Xpand RF transmitter for 1/2 price here + a pair of glasses (non horizontal polarization, worth about $35 alone).

https://www.amazon.com/EX105BT-Shutt...dp/B009ZW7SR2/


If you are specifically looking for the horizontal polarization glasses, they are model # X105-RF-X3

you can email xpand here to find out pricing and order info

[email protected]
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post #15079 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
It's impossible for us to know whether you got a great calibration before and just didn't like how that looks. Some people don't. That said, we have multiple data points about what Chad can achieve with these projectors, so that is a known quantity. You might not like the results, but we can be confident they will be correct. If you are within his range or on the route of one of his tours (typically east of the Rockies) then a standard calibration is $425 (listed on his web site).

Who is Chad?
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post #15080 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 02:25 PM
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Hi, I wouldn't bother with the old MV3D kits, I could never tune them as well as the Xpand 105RF's work out of the box. (MV3D transmitter is proprietary, will not work with JVC or Xpand RF glasses..)

The JVC transmitter is ~ $100, you can get an Xpand RF transmitter for 1/2 price here + a pair of glasses (non horizontal polarization, worth about $35 alone).

https://www.amazon.com/EX105BT-Shutt...dp/B009ZW7SR2/


If you are specifically looking for the horizontal polarization glasses, they are model # X105-RF-X3

you can email xpand here to find out pricing and order info

[email protected]
Are those the best glasses for the JVC? Does Amazon sell the glasses without the emitter for less (if I order 4 glasses I don't need 4 emitters).

Does it come with whatever I need to connect it to the RS500 - some three pin connector or something like that? Or do I need to buy something additional?

Do you remember the Optima 3D glasses from about 4-5 years ago. I have several pairs of those. I was thinking of getting 4 pairs of the polarized glasses for primary viewing, and then buying these extra Expand glasses for guests - but if the Optima glasses will work that I only need one pair of the Expand to get the emitter. I think?
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post #15081 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Are those the best glasses for the JVC? Does Amazon sell the glasses without the emitter for less (if I order 4 glasses I don't need 4 emitters).

Does it come with whatever I need to connect it to the RS500 - some three pin connector or something like that? Or do I need to buy something additional?

Do you remember the Optima 3D glasses from about 4-5 years ago. I have several pairs of those. I was thinking of getting 4 pairs of the polarized glasses for primary viewing, and then buying these extra Expand glasses for guests - but if the Optima glasses will work that I only need one pair of the Expand to get the emitter. I think?
That kit I posted includes the Xpand RF transmitter, it works identical to the $100 JVC transmitter.

The glasses by themselves are located here for $35 a piece

https://www.amazon.com/XPAND-X105-RF...dp/B00BFO4XSA/

The X3 variant with horizontal polarization is only avail direct from xpand at the contract I provided. Or purchase the more expensive JVC glasses from a dealer, but they are identical as xpand makes thems for JVC.

Those Optoma glasses are also proprietary RF to the original MV3D transmitter, they will not work with the Xpand or JVC RF transmitter. Just about every other RF glasses on the market will work though so you have even more options for very inexpensive RF glasses. Someone posted an $11 pair that worked although they didn't look very sturdy.

Does your screen definitely retain polarization? My HP does not so I can get away with the inexpensive glasses.


edit, here is the kit with the transmitter + a nice case to hold the Xpand glasses, they fit perfect.


Last edited by zombie10k; 10-03-2016 at 03:58 PM.
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post #15082 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Are those the best glasses for the JVC? Does Amazon sell the glasses without the emitter for less (if I order 4 glasses I don't need 4 emitters).

Does it come with whatever I need to connect it to the RS500 - some three pin connector or something like that? Or do I need to buy something additional?

Do you remember the Optima 3D glasses from about 4-5 years ago. I have several pairs of those. I was thinking of getting 4 pairs of the polarized glasses for primary viewing, and then buying these extra Expand glasses for guests - but if the Optima glasses will work that I only need one pair of the Expand to get the emitter. I think?
That kit I posted includes the Xpand RF transmitter, it works identical to the $100 JVC transmitter.

The glasses by themselves are located here for $35 a piece

https://www.amazon.com/XPAND-X105-RF...dp/B00BFO4XSA/

The X3 variant with horizontal polarization is only avail direct from xpand at the contract I provided. Or purchase the more expensive JVC glasses from a dealer, but they are identical as xpand makes thems for JVC.

Those Optoma glasses are also proprietary RF to the original MV3D transmitter, they will not work with the Xpand or JVC RF transmitter. Just about every other RF glasses on the market will work though so you have even more options for very inexpensive RF glasses. Someone posted an $11 pair that worked although they didn't look very sturdy.

Does your screen definitely retain polarization? My HP does not so I can get away with the inexpensive glasses.


edit, here is the kit with the transmitter + a nice case to hold the Xpand glasses, they fit perfect.

Thanks zombie10k. Even with JVC glasses the brightness increases when I turn my head 90 degree . Same when wearing polarized sunglasses . Does it mean my screen retain polarization ? Thanks
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post #15083 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 05:51 PM
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Very interesting points you're making. This is why I hope a good internal HDR to SDR remapping system will become standard in all UHD blu-ray players going forward. Hopefully Oppo can pave the way with their upcoming UDP203 player and others follow. Fingers crossed that it does as good of a job at the remapping as the Panasonic UB900 does. As you say, it really seems like SDR/2020 is going to be the best option for UHD blu-ray on projectors for a very long time.

By the way, is there any reason why remapping has to do be done in the player? It would be nice if the projector itself could remap the signal as well. Eventually all of this really needs to get to a point of ease of use where you just choose what kind of signal you want in a menu, and the device, be it the display or player, just does it for you.
Exactly! Why is nobody asking for projector manufacturers to actually handle HDR well/correctly? There is no reason we should have to rely on player manufacturers to convert HDR to an intermediate EOTF to get optimal results. In fact I'd argue it's the opposite, JVC should know it's capabilities and parameters, and be able to map ST2084 to that better than having a double conversion happen.

We know JVCs can produce a spectacular picture with HDR content, as proven by all the folks thrilled with SDR remapping. So come on JVC, get your act together and get us an update so we don't have to rely on Integrals or SDR remapping from external hardware.
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post #15084 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 05:56 PM
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That kit I posted includes the Xpand RF transmitter, it works identical to the $100 JVC transmitter.
Thanks. I just ordered one of these from Amazon. How does it connect to the RS500 - through the Ethernet port?

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The glasses by themselves are located here for $35 a piece

https://www.amazon.com/XPAND-X105-RF...dp/B00BFO4XSA/
I was in Best Buy tonight and they had a pair. I tried them on. They felt pretty light weight which was good. However they were a bit hard on my nose and also rather form-fitting to my head. Like it really grabs around you by the ears. Not too bad, but I found the Optoma glasses more comfortable. Are there any other high quality glasses to consider besides these?

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The X3 variant with horizontal polarization is only avail direct from xpand at the contract I provided. Or purchase the more expensive JVC glasses from a dealer, but they are identical as xpand makes thems for JVC.

Those Optoma glasses are also proprietary RF to the original MV3D transmitter, they will not work with the Xpand or JVC RF transmitter. Just about every other RF glasses on the market will work though so you have even more options for very inexpensive RF glasses. Someone posted an $11 pair that worked although they didn't look very sturdy.

Does your screen definitely retain polarization? My HP does not so I can get away with the inexpensive glasses.
I have the Seymour Center Stage XD screen. I'm pretty sure it does not retain polarization. However someone posted here recently (I think earlier today) that they have a non-polarized screen and when they compared the polarized to the non-polarized glasses the polarized ones were noticeably brighter. In your experience is that not the case?
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post #15085 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 06:30 PM
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Make sure to buy the JVC OEM or XPAND with horizontal polarity ( both made by XPAND btw) as they are the only ones that will give the brightest picture. Many have said that if your screen does not retain polarization then the regular XPAND X105-RF will work as will many other brands. Well, my screen does not retain any polarization however there is a noticeable difference using glasses with and without the horizontal polarization .

Bottom line, get the correct glasses and you will be sure not to loose any of that valuable brightness ( and color) , the little extra money is worth it for a expensive projector like this.
I will absolutely buy glasses with the correct polarization. Even if your screen does not retain 80-90% polarization, there is no physically possible way an equal % of reflected light off your screen is polarized either vertically or horizontally. So the correct orientation glasses will always be at least slightly brighter no matter what screen.

And thank you zombie, I have sent xpand an email, as I can't find the vertically polarized glasses available for sale anywhere.
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post #15086 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 07:13 PM
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Thanks zombie10k. Even with JVC glasses the brightness increases when I turn my head 90 degree . Same when wearing polarized sunglasses . Does it mean my screen retain polarization ? Thanks
I am also very interested in Zombie10k's response to this, as it runs counter to how I understood polarization and 3D glasses to work.

The JVC Projectors utilize horizontal polarization, and the JVC glasses are horizontally polarized, so theoretically, they would be brightest when in the normal, horizontal position. If you're saying that they actually get brighter when you rotate them to a vertical position, then something is 'rotten in Denmark' somehow...
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post #15087 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 08:00 PM
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@audioguy - Is that what can lead to that, not having sufficient power? Or can this be caused by having too much power? I have 3000 watts per sub available to each of my HST-18 subs, which Nick from SI says can easily handle about 2000 watts. So the question I guess I'm asking is how do we make sure that we can safely blast our subs at reference?
It is the voice coils overheating. If you have a smoking issue on those subs, I don't want to be in the same state. As long as your amp is putting out clean power, you should not have any issues. I can't imagine the db level they would reach prior to getting that over heated. They can handle massive amounts of power (I use to have 4 of this subs) . I had over 2000 watts per sub when I had them.

Unless you are trying to reach 130db in a 7000 cf room, you should have no worries
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post #15088 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 08:22 PM
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Yes. At 450 hours mine is still delivering 29fL at the screen. It was 30fL when new. I'm doubting my measurement technique! But my eyes tell me it's still plenty bright.
Agreed. When Chad was back out here in August he said he was surprised from ~250 to ~680 he measured no change (he even made a comment "guess I'll see you again around the 2K hour mark!).

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post #15089 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 08:28 PM
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Who is Chad?
@Chad B

His website

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post #15090 of 31987 Old 10-03-2016, 08:35 PM
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He doesn't do the West Coast!
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