Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 513 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15361 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
are you running a good BT.1886 cal? I think Lucy in UHD SDR BT2020 looks great. I run all my UHD's in this mode now as I like to run low lamp with -11 on the iris.
Yes I think I have a good BT.1886 cal, tho I haven't measured it. I ran the autocal to get a straight line 2.2 gamma. Then in Custom 1 for gamma I choose a 2.4 correction value with +2 in dark. I think that is what Manni recommends to get a BT.1886? Otherwise what settings can I use to get BT1886 assuming a perfect 2.2 baseline autocal'ed into the unit?

As I recall you have a large screen. Mine is 2.37 AR 140" 0.95 gain. How are you able to watch Lucy with low lamp and -11 or the iris? That's probably like 10 ftL? For SDR I did lamp low iris -7 BT2020 gamma custom 1 2.4 +2 darkness, which when zoomed for 2.37 yields about 14 ftL. It looked good. But when I switched to my HDR it was no contest - the HDR was WORLDS better IMO, a totally different league. I was watching with a friend and we both agreed it was no contest. For HDR that I had lamp on high, iris -3, contrast at +25 (to clip Sony patterns at 500, given my 48 nits - still not sure I am doing this right), picture tone +13, dark/light +5. Try it - just about every scenes was significantly more vibrant and engaging. That said, as mentioned, I did not care for Tarzan with these same settings - seemed washed out - I will check out Tarzan again with SDR+WCG to see if that's better or if that seems washed out too.

Quote:
Andreas - I am late to the ATMOS party but quickly catching up on all the available ATMOS titles and the one DTS-X title, Lone Survivor (WCG on this title looks excellent). Adding the height speakers was one of the best upgrades in my room. right after the JVC and blacking out the room..
Nah you're not late - look at this this way you have a LOT of great Atmos titles to enjoy. Be sure to check out Everest in 4K in Atmos.
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post #15362 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
That is a good question, I am really hoping this feature to be present in the Oppo UHD player without the need for the HD Fury Integral/Linker as I would like to take it out of my chain.
Why would you like to take it out of your chain - just one less thing to go wrong, or does the Integral give you problems sometimes or otherwise complicate things - and if so, how?

Let's say the Oppo does take care of SDR+WCG - won't we still need the Integral for other sources such as streaming devices that do HDR and future cable TV boxes?
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post #15363 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 09:53 AM
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I did a bunch of troubleshooting today and I found the problem with my Roku Ultra to JVC RS500 projector. The Roku will not consistently pass higher than 1080P over a 3ft Monoprice Redmere cable (I had 2 cables, both less than 2 months old to try). Once I put the plain 4' HDMI cable that came with my Philips UHD player from Roku to projector or Roku to Yamaha receiver to 25' Cabernet HDMI monoprice cable to projector, 4K HDR works without a hitch. Very happy now.

These same Monoprice Redmere cables work perfectly with my Philips UHD player to receiver to Cabernet to projector.
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post #15364 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 09:57 AM
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Can someone please tell me where exactly the IR port(s) are on the front/back of the RS500? I need to best position and IR emitter. Thanks.
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post #15365 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Can someone please tell me where exactly the IR port(s) are on the front/back of the RS500? I need to best position and IR emitter. Thanks.
It's the round shiny circle on the back. I use it with my projector in the closet. It's the upper projector in this picture - you can see the wire going to it.

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post #15366 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
It's JVC's fault that there's a significant drop in performance (as most who've tried both report) by feeding it native ST.2084 rather than having an external device convert the same content to a different EOTF (gamma) first.



Probably, but I hope there will be. Maybe once they get the RS4500 launched with "DI" enabled for HDR, they'll be able to back port that logic to the RSx00 line (I realize it wouldn't be a direct port).

FWIW - IIRC it was established months ago (by MikeG?), that JVC would not "fix" the DI in HDR b/c they intentionally turned it off to get HDR to work correctly on the PJ. It'll be very telling how they treat the RS4500 once the actual reviews start coming in.

And to your tone map question… cause this is sort of "V1" of a 4K HDR PJ (I think compared to all other OEMs they hit "at least" a triple if not a HR! . . . too bad the Cubs lineup couldn't do the same last night; that's not a pitcher I mean!).

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post #15367 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
It's the round shiny circle on the back. I use it with my projector in the closet. It's the upper projector in this picture - you can see the wire going to it.

The way those vents are positioned... at the front of the JVC... do they suck the hot air out? I'm looking for ways to manage the heat. Right now I have to leave the door to the projection room open (to the hall) and run a fan hanging at the door to move fresh air to the intake vents. Fortunately this is all hidden from inside the theater, but it would be nice to make it all neater.
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post #15368 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 10:41 AM
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Yes. Pitch 5 on Dihedral Wall, El Capitan, Yosemite.
OK enough OT... but I just have to say... I'm impressed! I've watched you guys... while standing in the meadow.
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post #15369 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
are you running a good BT.1886 cal? I think Lucy in UHD SDR BT2020 looks great. I run all my UHD's in this mode now as I like to run low lamp with -11 on the iris.

Andreas - I am late to the ATMOS party but quickly catching up on all the available ATMOS titles and the one DTS-X title, Lone Survivor (WCG on this title looks excellent). Adding the height speakers was one of the best upgrades in my room. right after the JVC and blacking out the room..



(don't forget to check out Jupiter Ascending for Atmos & The Last Witchhunter for DTS:X)
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post #15370 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 10:49 AM
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OK enough OT... but I just have to say... I'm impressed! I've watched you guys... while standing in the meadow.
… Where it's safe… (that is one crazy couple)!
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post #15371 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 11:21 AM
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Hola Amigos.

I've been on the light side of the projection moon looking at Epson units to date and considering the dark side. lol

While on the Epson threads, I often read comparisons with JVC projectors, so I wanted to know, short of the new laser projector that retails for $35K, which medium range unit in the Procision line is considered to provide the most bang for your buck and why? Is the 9000 that much better than say the 500 or 550 in real-world viewing? This will be mated to some type of 16X9 100" diagonal ALR screen with a 12' throw. The projector may be used occasionally during the day where there is a modest amount of ambient light in room (5-7 FC depending on where you measure), but is likely to be used mostly at night when there is little to no ambient light.

I am also considering a large 85" LED TV, but prefer a larger more immersive experience; thus why I am looking into projection. Here is a layout of my Family Room, as you can see the window and sliders are a challenge, however, one opening has blinds, the other sheer curtains.

Thanks for your help guys.



Andres
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post #15372 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Yes I think I have a good BT.1886 cal, tho I haven't measured it. I ran the autocal to get a straight line 2.2 gamma. Then in Custom 1 for gamma I choose a 2.4 correction value with +2 in dark. I think that is what Manni recommends to get a BT.1886? Otherwise what settings can I use to get BT1886 assuming a perfect 2.2 baseline autocal'ed into the unit?

As I recall you have a large screen. Mine is 2.37 AR 140" 0.95 gain. How are you able to watch Lucy with low lamp and -11 or the iris? That's probably like 10 ftL? For SDR I did lamp low iris -7 BT2020 gamma custom 1 2.4 +2 darkness, which when zoomed for 2.37 yields about 14 ftL. It looked good. But when I switched to my HDR it was no contest - the HDR was WORLDS better IMO, a totally different league. I was watching with a friend and we both agreed it was no contest. For HDR that I had lamp on high, iris -3, contrast at +25 (to clip Sony patterns at 500, given my 48 nits - still not sure I am doing this right), picture tone +13, dark/light +5. Try it - just about every scenes was significantly more vibrant and engaging. That said, as mentioned, I did not care for Tarzan with these same settings - seemed washed out - I will check out Tarzan again with SDR+WCG to see if that's better or if that seems washed out too.

Nah you're not late - look at this this way you have a LOT of great Atmos titles to enjoy. Be sure to check out Everest in 4K in Atmos.
I have a 142" 2.8HP screen with the projector near eye level so I am getting a good bit of gain. High lamp can be blinding in the velvet pit. This is the main reason I like the low lamp @ -11 which is still quite bright.

Tarzan and Pacific Rim are arriving tonight, hoping to watch PR by the weekend.

Any luck with the Roku Ultra @ 24 frames and netflix? I didn't get to spend any more time but it seems stuck @ 60p unless we're missing something obvious. My Samsung 8500 plays netflix at 24p.
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post #15373 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
It's the round shiny circle on the back. I use it with my projector in the closet. It's the upper projector in this picture - you can see the wire going to it.

Thanks. Is there not one available on the front too? That may explain why my remote is fairly unresponsive at times (frustratingly so). I will try feeding mine with one of the Harmony Elite IR blasters. However I really don't have a place for a blaster - I just need an emitter. Unless I can just put the blaster right above it. Will have to experiment. Does anyone know if you can just plug an emitter into of the the spots on a Harmony instead of a "blaster" (and I assume these are two different things?)?
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post #15374 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I have a 142" 2.8HP screen with the projector near eye level so I am getting a good bit of gain. High lamp can be blinding in the velvet pit. This is the main reason I like the low lamp @ -11 which is still quite bright.

Tarzan and Pacific Rim are arriving tonight, hoping to watch PR by the weekend.

Any luck with the Roku Ultra @ 24 frames and netflix? I didn't get to spend any more time but it seems stuck @ 60p unless we're missing something obvious. My Samsung 8500 plays netflix at 24p.
Ah ha - 2.8 gain screen. That explains it.

I didn't try the Roku yet - I was discouraged to hear it doesn't do 24hz so figured my results won't be any different. I will try it soon, tonight or tomorrow and let you know. I am using a fiber HDMI cable now which I don't think you can get any better than that so we will know its definitely not the cable if it doesn't work.

Yes I only have the Panasonic UHD player which is stuck at 60hz. How will movies look playing back at 60hz on the RS500? Are there any settings that will help make the playback smoother (assuming I can even notice a difference)?
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post #15375 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 11:42 AM
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I watched 3 episodes of Narcos on the Roku @ 60p and it looked fine to me. I was planning to run an A/B between the Roku and Samsung 8500 but ran out of time. I'll go back and check this out.

so many input devices.

Panasonic UB900 + HDfury for UHD SDR BT2020
Samsung 8500 for Netflix 24P
Roku - ??
Dune 4K Solo - access to all my 2D and 3D BD ISO library (40TB running out of space)
Ceton Echo for Media Center DVR (6 tuner for FIOS)
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post #15376 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Agreed, calibrators say they see issues across the board.

It seems HDR standardization went to the waste side in favor of marketing and as Kris pointed out, front projection was of no consideration.
I had a conversation with Chad in regards to this as well.

Ever since I got the Panasonic hooked up, I have committed to watching in SDR 2020 moving forward and not worrying about trying HDR for the time being. I was getting so frustrated with having to change settings back and forth, that I just want to turn on my system and watch a movie. Then turn it off when the movie is over.

IMO, I am getting the most out of my system right now. I won't be changing anything out for a few years, so I am going to do something that might sound a bit crazy and drastic.....just enjoy movies.

On that note, if you haven't seen "Blood Father", I HIGHLY recommend it. Great action flick, good soundtrack and decent 1080p picture... Old school Mel Gibson feel to it.
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post #15377 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by chasiliff View Post
I did a bunch of troubleshooting today and I found the problem with my Roku Ultra to JVC RS500 projector. The Roku will not consistently pass higher than 1080P over a 3ft Monoprice Redmere cable (I had 2 cables, both less than 2 months old to try). Once I put the plain 4' HDMI cable that came with my Philips UHD player from Roku to projector or Roku to Yamaha receiver to 25' Cabernet HDMI monoprice cable to projector, 4K HDR works without a hitch. Very happy now.

These same Monoprice Redmere cables work perfectly with my Philips UHD player to receiver to Cabernet to projector.
FWIW: I have read that a short HDMI cable "can" insert instability and that a longer cable sorts this out. I have read that 5' is the optimum minimum length for an HDMI cable.

Sewell Direct has just shipped their new 30' HDMI cable that is supposedly able to pass 18 gpbs. They have a thread, (with an AVS discount) in the Vendor's section. I've attached a picture. There is no sticker for the HDMI institute premium certification, but the price was low enough that I purchased it. Won't be able to test until the Oppo 203 ships (I've been holding out).
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JVC RS600 Chad-callibrated, 120" 1.3g in Batcave HT, Denon X8500 Polk LSiM703 fronts,
RTi-12 rears, LSiM 706 center, Monitor 40 Heights, Monitor 60 FW, FXiA4 Bi-pole sides,
LSiC top front, Infinity 6" VOG. 4X 12" subs w/mini DSP on sub 1 and nearfield 18" from sub 2.
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post #15378 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Ah ha - 2.8 gain screen. That explains it.

I didn't try the Roku yet - I was discouraged to hear it doesn't do 24hz so figured my results won't be any different. I will try it soon, tonight or tomorrow and let you know. I am using a fiber HDMI cable now which I don't think you can get any better than that so we will know its definitely not the cable if it doesn't work.

Yes I only have the Panasonic UHD player which is stuck at 60hz. How will movies look playing back at 60hz on the RS500? Are there any settings that will help make the playback smoother (assuming I can even notice a difference)?
I normally use the 'Inverse Telecine' setting under the CMD menu when watching movies on my Apple TV. It reverses the 3:2 pulldown on 60 fps feeds to extract the original 24 fps source. It does not use interpolation so there is no soap-opera effect. However, the quality of the results is dependant on how good the original 3:2 pulldown was. If there are dropped frames or bad edits on scene changes you may see some stuttering. Most of the time it works quite well on my X750. My older X35 had more problems with poor quality sources.

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post #15379 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 01:08 PM
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Hey guys - I got the BT2020 set up and ran the autocal (several questions on that, which I'll ask in the autocal thread later today). Now I'm focused on setting the right contrast/clipping point aka 10x and wondering if I did this right...

I have a 2.37 AR 140" wide 0.95 gain screen. With the BT2020 and lamp on high with filter engaged and iris fully open I get 155 lux with a 2.37 image, which with my screen works out to about 14 ftL on my RS500, mounted a little shy of mid-throw. That's 48 nits according to the calculator. Times 10, let's call it 500. Using the Sony patterns from the Amazing Spiderman 2 UHD I brought the bars up and to set the clipping at 500 requires a Contrast setting of around 25. Does that sound like I followed the procedure correctly? I don't have any frame of reference so I don't know if that's crazy-high or in the approximate range (others getting this with similar screen sizes?) for someone As a side note I have Gamma D, Picture Tone at +13 and bright/dark at +5.

In looking at Lucy in HDR it looks great, but perhaps a bit too "overblown" looking. I did check several scenes including cloudy skies and there seemed to be very little clipping going on in this range - I had to go much higher like +35 on Contrast before the clouds started to melt-together and clip.

A few questions please:

1. Does it sound like I've set the brightness correctly and followed the right procedure? I have a feeling that trying to do HDR for my screen size with no gain is really pushing it.

2. People say to leave the iris fully open with lamp on high. But does the iris setting really matter? IOW if I had the iris at -5 to get a more contrasty picture and then the dynamic range highlights would be toned down in brightness, but the black levels would drop too just as much? So then why is the iris setting important?

3. The JVC instructions say to set Picture tone to +10 for 100" and larger, a little smaller for smaller screens and a little larger for larger screens. I'm using +13 but this is just a guess. Is there any more "scientific" (aka measurements) way to determine the ideal picture tone setting? What does this settings actually do? When I had the calibrations bars up on the Sony menu on the UHD disc, changing the picture tone setting did not affect the clipping. What's the downside to setting picture tone too high? I guess same question for determining the ideal dark/light settings too.

Thanks!

Not sure you took note of my response on this Ric since I replied thru Atabea's (also RicK), reply, but in addition I just wanted to make sure with you coming late to the HDR party you saw this…. JVC posted a pdf showing their recommended HDR settings (along with the BT.2020 profile import or manipulation of the CMS if you don't import from AutoCal… but since you have that installed already you prob already DO have this doc). I mention it b/c I see you were under the impression (I assume from another post), it's +10 for 100" but it's actually +12 (you'd prob need to be in the +15 area IMO with such a large screen if you just prefer HDR after testing out SDR/2020 on the Panny. Like I said in that post, you'll need to play mostly with your GammaD settings to best get things dialed-in after you set your clip points.

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post #15380 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I have a 142" 2.8HP screen with the projector near eye level so I am getting a good bit of gain. High lamp can be blinding in the velvet pit. This is the main reason I like the low lamp @ -11 which is still quite bright.

Tarzan and Pacific Rim are arriving tonight, hoping to watch PR by the weekend.

Any luck with the Roku Ultra @ 24 frames and netflix? I didn't get to spend any more time but it seems stuck @ 60p unless we're missing something obvious. My Samsung 8500 plays netflix at 24p.
I'm in your camp (though still at a more primitive level), with a 6'x12' HP2.4 screen, with my RS600 optimally positioned and room blacked out. Though maybe because I'm too lazy, I'm still very content with plain, old-fashioned 1080p BD. I'm content to wait for the HDR, etc., to stabilize, and will get into this later (if I'm still around!).
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post #15381 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceJK View Post
I normally use the 'Inverse Telecine' setting under the CMD menu when watching movies on my Apple TV. It reverses the 3:2 pulldown on 60 fps feeds to extract the original 24 fps source. It does not use interpolation so there is no soap-opera effect. However, the quality of the results is dependant on how good the original 3:2 pulldown was. If there are dropped frames or bad edits on scene changes you may see some stuttering. Most of the time it works quite well on my X750. My older X35 had more problems with poor quality sources.
Thanks Bruce! This is exactly the type of setting I was wondering about and looking for. OK so you said that most of the time it works quite well, which is great to know. But even more importantly, when it does work well have you compared how that playback looks to what the 60hz playback looks like?
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post #15382 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Thanks Bruce! This is exactly the type of setting I was wondering about and looking for. OK so you said that most of the time it works quite well, which is great to know. But even more importantly, when it does work well have you compared how that playback looks to what the 60hz playback looks like?
Yes, I have compared 'Inverse Telecine' to both CMD 'off' and also CMD 'low'. One of the best places to view the difference is with scrolling credits on a black background at the end of a movie. The scrolling will appear as evenly spaced jumps with 'Inverse Telecine' (as 24 fps should) , as irregularly spaced jumps with CMD 'off' (3:2 pulldown at 60 fps), or unnaturally smooth with CMD set to 'low' (because of frame interpolation).

A true 24 frame feed is still the best choice of course and I can't understand why so many streaming devices still don't offer it but the Inverse Telecine mode on the JVC is a good alternative.

Bruce K.
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post #15383 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Not sure you took note of my response on this Ric since I replied thru Atabea's (also RicK), reply, but in addition I just wanted to make sure with you coming late to the HDR party you saw this…. JVC posted a pdf showing their recommended HDR settings (along with the BT.2020 profile import or manipulation of the CMS if you don't import from AutoCal… but since you have that installed already you prob already DO have this doc). I mention it b/c I see you were under the impression (I assume from another post), it's +10 for 100" but it's actually +12 (you'd prob need to be in the +15 area IMO with such a large screen if you just prefer HDR after testing out SDR/2020 on the Panny. Like I said in that post, you'll need to play mostly with your GammaD settings to best get things dialed-in after you set your clip points.
Yes I did see your post and have studied JVC doc you linked to, thank you. What does Picture Tone do exactly, under the hood? It seems to make the image brighter as I raise it, but at what expense? Also I'd like to know if there's a better way to set its ideal value rather than just guestimating it, such as by using a meter or test pattern? I noticed that it only goes up to +17. I'm using +12 and will try a few settings in between that and +17. And same question about the gamma D light/dark (aka better way to set these than guessing)?

Also on a somewhat related note - I'm having an issue with the JVC autocal not attempting to correct my color temps. Can you please see https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post47399177 and let me know if you have any ideas? Thanks!
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post #15384 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 01:45 PM
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Yes, I have compared 'Inverse Telecine' to both CMD 'off' and also CMD 'low'. One of the best places to view the difference is with scrolling credits on a black background at the end of a movie. The scrolling will appear as evenly spaced jumps with 'Inverse Telecine' (as 24 fps should) , as irregularly spaced jumps with CMD 'off' (3:2 pulldown at 60 fps), or unnaturally smooth with CMD set to 'low' (because of frame interpolation).

A true 24 frame feed is still the best choice of course and I can't understand why so many streaming devices still don't offer it but the Inverse Telecine mode on the JVC is a good alternative.
Thanks. Ok so you have said you have tested/compared these options, but you did not say what you prefer and why. I assume using Inverse Telecine is your favorite for most 60hz movie playback. In what ways is it better (for most movies) than just watching it at 60hz? Also does the inverse telecine work well with TV movies like on HBO?
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post #15385 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 01:50 PM
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I'm in your camp (though still at a more primitive level), with a 6'x12' HP2.4 screen, with my RS600 optimally positioned and room blacked out. Though maybe because I'm too lazy, I'm still very content with plain, old-fashioned 1080p BD. I'm content to wait for the HDR, etc., to stabilize, and will get into this later (if I'm still around!).
Hi Bill - I'd encourage you to motivate and watch some movies in UHD. I'm new to it myself and only have watched 3 movies so far. Last night I watched Everest (in Atmos, insane) UHD SDR+WCG and it was spectacular and razor sharp. The amount of detail in this film is incredible. For grins and giggles I put the regular Blu-ray in immediately after and rewatched certain scenes. The UHD version of this file is MILES and miles above the standard blu-ray version - no contest at all. The blu-ray version looked like it had a thin layer of mud in front of the lens in particular. The UHD version was much more dynamic and clear and had more pop and the benefit of WCG is very obvious to me - colors are just so much more rich and lifelike. Check it out Bill!
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post #15386 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Yes I did see your post and have studied JVC doc you linked to, thank you. What does Picture Tone do exactly, under the hood? It seems to make the image brighter as I raise it, but at what expense? Also I'd like to know if there's a better way to set its ideal value rather than just guestimating it, such as by using a meter or test pattern? I noticed that it only goes up to +17. I'm using +12 and will try a few settings in between that and +17. And same question about the gamma D light/dark (aka better way to set these than guessing)?

Also on a somewhat related note - I'm having an issue with the JVC autocal not attempting to correct my color temps. Can you please see https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post47399177 and let me know if you have any ideas? Thanks!
To my knowledge there is no frame of reference or standard template to those Gamma settings (maybe if @Chad B sees this he can comment as it relates to the Samsung Pro HDR Cal disc he's now using).

That being said my understanding for PicTone is as follows… you're supposed to be able to balance your gamma, contrast, and brightness settings without affecting the grey scaling of the source, enabling brightness adjustment to match your surrounding environment. IIRC the Darklvl at zero is GammaD's baseline black floor and how fast you want to raise out of black (remember Manni first said o get close to BT1886 raise DrLvl +2; prob in the lowest areas of your gamma curve where it would show a quicker/slower elevation of dark shadows from +7 to -7… same holding true for BrghtLvl; brightening or darkening the highlights… this is your area to concentrate on for your blown-out whites you mentioned.

BTW - while you're still in "lovingHDR" mode make sure you check out The Revenant (especially the night time campfire scenes where the dancing embers look like "live" fireflies in your room!

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post #15387 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Thanks. Ok so you have said you have tested/compared these options, but you did not say what you prefer and why. I assume using Inverse Telecine is your favorite for most 60hz movie playback. In what ways is it better (for most movies) than just watching it at 60hz? Also does the inverse telecine work well with TV movies like on HBO?
Yes, I normally use 'Inverse Telecine' because it is my favourite when viewing 60 hz sources. This includes Apple TV and the cable box that I use to watch HBO. It produces the most film-like results with these sources because the motion should ideally look as if it is really 24 frames per second. Just be aware that sometimes it produces worse results with low quality sources and you may have to turn it off.

When viewing movies on blu-ray I use the true 24 fps setting and it is superior. Its probably best to look at the JVC 'Inverse Telecine' setting not as a panacea but rather a stop-gap measure until more devices or firmware upgrades support 24 fps playback.
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post #15388 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 02:55 PM
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Thanks. Is there not one available on the front too? That may explain why my remote is fairly unresponsive at times (frustratingly so). I will try feeding mine with one of the Harmony Elite IR blasters. However I really don't have a place for a blaster - I just need an emitter. Unless I can just put the blaster right above it. Will have to experiment. Does anyone know if you can just plug an emitter into of the the spots on a Harmony instead of a "blaster" (and I assume these are two different things?)?
Yes. See page 10 of your owners manual. It's all in there. I just used the back one since it's more convenient with the projector closet.
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post #15389 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 02:56 PM
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Replies below...
2K SDR looks as good "from the money seat" with near and far image detail as 4K HDR with Warcraft. This is widely accepted in this thread

Well, I don't accept this, who has accepted that 2k image detail is no different to 4k from the chair? You are the only dude who has claimed as such, Is your 'money seat' in the next room? Because when comparing 2K (Non MadVR supersampled) Bluray, the difference between 2k and 4k smacks me in the face from 9feet away on my 120inch screen.

You are still comparing films in different colour spaces, and you really shouldn't. You also are using a player which does not do the best HDR or SDR for that matter where 4k discs are concerned, and also a player which is not as naturally sharp as the competition. And that's also fine, but just know that you are not using optimal gear from the get go.

The measurement setup data shows the JVC SDR setup has Ymax for 2K and 4K at 55nits and 58nits, respectively. One will not get any brighter measurements in 2K than 4K SDR ... period. lol. These 2K and 4K CGI SDR scenes are limited in brightness ... where as in 4K HDR, the Director can chose much brighter "seering" colors ... which was confirmed by Warcraft's 4K HDR's off screen max measurement of 119 nits! These 2K and 4K CGI scenes may be close "as the eye sees them", but HDR has a clear advantage ... and one's eyes, backed with the data, proves it.

Sure, and one reason why I ADVOCATE SDR WCG, its clearly leaps and bounds more contrasty, colourful and well balanced than SDR 709, and its not just from the colour perspective, but since you dont actually have a functioning SDR BT2020 capable solution I guess you haven't experienced it

Anyway this is all based on the fact that you think brighter is better. If that's what you like I cant argue with your logic. I don't believe this to be honest, I'm not after a million nits in spectral highlights.


Also, SDR's deep black level advantage (in Batman vs. Superman) does not apply to these "seering" CGI scenes ... why? ... because of Director's Intent. The Director in Bat vs Sup is intentionally creating seering (krichter1 ), bright flashing CGI scenes ... this effect will momentarily constrict the eye's pupil making blacks look deeper ... that's the advantage of HDR ... even with elevated blacks ... it's self-correcting if the Director applies the same HDR "seering" technique used in Batman vs. Superman ... not all do, yet. Directors and color graders are getting better at this ... give them chance.

^ This is nonsense. You are putting up with elevated blacks through a 3 hour film for a few seconds here and there of searing brightness in HDR, hardly a worthy trade off... I cant argue with your preference obviously if that's what floats your boat, but I am pretty damn sure the director didn't intend for us to throw away the black floor (Which if our projectors had 1million:1 ANSI Contrast I bet you could measure your elevated black floor vs the black floor in SDR stopped down and you will see the SDR version in fact has more measurable on screen contrast. - You are getting so high in APL levels with HDR that ANSI probably drops to a measly 200:1 in places). Our projectors don't work properly with HDR. I have watched HDR with a proper 1000nit capable display on my Samsung KS8000 and it looks artificial, forced, unnatural, overblown and crap.

My friend, you are still suffering from commercialitis (repeating yourself 50 times?). lol. I still have great hope for you.

I resent that

Reality for HDR projector owners is JVC's Ypeak of 100 nits not 1000 nits of the 4K master. 10x clipping really helps. Give the directors a chance. HDR can look really good on JVC.

Been there done that for months, it really doesn't, many agree.

2K SDR was "deliberately" chosen for Batman vs Superman because it is the best SDR for both contrast and image detail ... better than 4K SDR ... why? ... 2K SDR uses the OPPO blu ray player that has better deep blacks, where as the 4K SDR uses the K8500 UHD player that has worse contrast and no near black image detail (SDR only, K8500 HDR is great). NOTE 4 below shows the K8500 4K SDR blacks clip at level 19 at BR+4 ... yuuuuck! NOTE 2 shows 2K SDR and 4K HDR has nearly identical near and far range image detail "from the money seat". This 2K=4K for CGI image detail also applies to Batman vs Superman ... the photos show this. The setup, analysis and conclusions for Batman vs. Superman are correct.


2K SDR is the best SDR because it uses the OPPO player ... not K8500 ... to have the best combination of deepest blacks, best contrast and near and far image detail ... image detail for CGI shots are nearly identical btwn 2K and 4K ... see NOTE 2 ... true in Warcraft and Batman vs. Superman. The brightness of 4K SDR cannot be brighter than 2K SDR (they are the ~same) ... but, the blacks and contrast ratio can be better in 2K SDR (OPPO) than 4K SDR (K8500). That's why 2K SDR was chosen to compare against 4K HDR in Batman vs. Superman ... its all about the Brutal Contrast Monster ... for source material.

See response to atabea above. FWIW, I'm thinking I have a slight case of commercialitis ... I'm repeating myself! lol

^ Boom. You basically sum up all by yourself here why all of this is moot. You know for a fact you are not getting an optimal point of comparison with SDR since you cant do SDR WCG from the same source using your player, so there is no point. Anyway you are comparing brightness, if course HDR is brighter. IMO it does not look better though, its severely overcooked and unnatural. A lot of people agree with this.

If you are going to post detail images, would you mind posting a link to larger ones so we can actually see the detail?
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post #15390 of 31987 Old 10-11-2016, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I had a conversation with Chad in regards to this as well.

Ever since I got the Panasonic hooked up, I have committed to watching in SDR 2020 moving forward and not worrying about trying HDR for the time being. I was getting so frustrated with having to change settings back and forth, that I just want to turn on my system and watch a movie. Then turn it off when the movie is over.

IMO, I am getting the most out of my system right now. I won't be changing anything out for a few years, so I am going to do something that might sound a bit crazy and drastic.....just enjoy movies.

On that note, if you haven't seen "Blood Father", I HIGHLY recommend it. Great action flick, good soundtrack and decent 1080p picture... Old school Mel Gibson feel to it.
I'm totally with you. Really, it's all about watching movies at the end of the day.
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