Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 592 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17731 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Can someone explain to me what SDR 2020 is and how is it better than HDR and also what settings for SDR2020?
You will need an HD Fury Integral.

Why I prefer SDR WCG on the JVC
My Panasonic UB900 HDR and SDR Settings

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post #17732 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Just stack 4 RS600's -- less money!!
At $2,200 for one lamp change, you would get there pretty quick.
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Last edited by Mike Garrett; 12-11-2016 at 07:28 PM.
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post #17733 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I'd be using the JVC with an Xbox One S for the material (discs and plex mkv HDR).

So what is SDR 2020 exactly? A way to soup-up to HDR regular 1080p material?

And, would I just use an Integral between JVC and receiver? And would I then configure it with settings allowing the improved video to happen?
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post #17734 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 08:02 PM
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Does anyone have one of these projectors (RS500 to be exact) coupled with a screen made with AV's material (V6)? I am interested in what to use for screen correction settings.

Also just watched the first movie. It was the 4k UHD version of Hunger Games. I first imported the BT2020 color profile, but when using that it was very dark - too dark to watch. This is in a light controlled room. No calibration done yet. Here is what I have:

RS500
Denon AVR7200w
Samsung 8500 UHD Blu-Ray
138" screnn with AV V6 material.

Thanks
GeorgeM
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post #17735 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
All velvet. Joanne's Royalty 3. I made 2:35:1 masking as well and yes, the contrast is much better than before. Now if I can only get my wife to let me put in black carpet...
Maybe you could compromise and find a large black (or very dark at least) rug for up front? I'm working on that same process of convincing for more black in the screen area. Thee masking panels are good, but more velvet is always better.
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post #17736 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeM View Post
Does anyone have one of these projectors (RS500 to be exact) coupled with a screen made with AV's material (V6)? I am interested in what to use for screen correction settings.

Also just watched the first movie. It was the 4k UHD version of Hunger Games. I first imported the BT2020 color profile, but when using that it was very dark - too dark to watch. This is in a light controlled room. No calibration done yet. Here is what I have:

RS500
Denon AVR7200w
Samsung 8500 UHD Blu-Ray
138" screnn with AV V6 material.

Thanks
GeorgeM
Have you applied the correct/recommended Gamma D Settings for HDR?

Try these:

Gamma D Settings (as per JVC's recommendation):
Picture Tone: 12
Dark Level: 5
Bright Level: 4

JVC Contrast +14

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post #17737 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Nice!

Yeah I was just saying in another thread.

I just passed 800 hours, I got it in mid June I'm pretty sure.

Oh and I had 33.68fl at the screen when new (Or around 25 hours I think), and now I have 31.87fl... I guess it possibly dropped slightly in those first 25 hours, but damn! Thats impressive staying power indeed.

I have been at -10 Low Lamp since new and I have only dropped 1.5fl or so. Still getting 15fl today, started with just over 16fl at -10. Still feel like the brightness is just fine.
Racking up the hours ! It takes me at least a year to put 500 hours on a projector, but with two here, I have about 260 hours on my RS600. I've been slacking !

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post #17738 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 08:50 PM
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I only put 216 on my RS600, but I also put around 400 on my RS45 and 50 on a Vivitek H9090.
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post #17739 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 09:00 PM
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Wow,

Guess there's no point asking anyone here about the lamp change procedure lol

My last PJ, an Epson 1080UB, went through 5 lamps and over 13K total hours
it still works fine, but at 8 y/o and limited to 1080p, I felt it deserved a "retired from active service" award.

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post #17740 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Wow,

Guess there's no point asking anyone here about the lamp change procedure lol
My first lamp died prematurely at less than 500 hours. Replacing the bulb was so simple I don't even recall doing it.

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post #17741 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeM View Post
Does anyone have one of these projectors (RS500 to be exact) coupled with a screen made with AV's material (V6)? I am interested in what to use for screen correction settings.

Also just watched the first movie. It was the 4k UHD version of Hunger Games. I first imported the BT2020 color profile, but when using that it was very dark - too dark to watch. This is in a light controlled room. No calibration done yet. Here is what I have:

RS500
Denon AVR7200w
Samsung 8500 UHD Blu-Ray
138" screnn with AV V6 material.

Thanks
GeorgeM
I was as disappointed with the Hunger Games collection as I was pleased with the Bourne collection.
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CJ
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post #17742 of 32136 Old 12-11-2016, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I'd be using the JVC with an Xbox One S for the material (discs and plex mkv HDR).

So what is SDR 2020 exactly? A way to soup-up to HDR regular 1080p material?

And, would I just use an Integral between JVC and receiver? And would I then configure it with settings allowing the improved video to happen?
The Xbox One S does not output BT.2020 SDR even with an HDFury Integral. Paraphrasing HDFury's reply regarding BT.2020 SDR and Xbox in the Integral thread... You need a real UHD player. Sorry.
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Last edited by claw; 12-11-2016 at 11:16 PM.
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post #17743 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Does anyone find as the pj warms up, say 45 minutes into a movie, the vid seems clearer, has more pop and color saturation and contrast improves...pj has about 40 hours on it...

Am I imagining as my eyes adjust or could this have something to do with the pj or bulb break-in? This has happened with a couple 1080p movies with me. Thanks folks...

BTW, I re-examined my bright corners and they are fairly minimal in the grand scheme of things...
45mn is the recommended warm-up time on these. In fact, one hour warm-up before calibration/measurements if you want 100% repeatable results (provided stable temp in the room otherwise it goes on drifting). Within the first 20mn, everything drifts significantly (don't look at the graphs below if you don't want to warm-up your PJ, you'd be horrified). 30mn is the minimum warm-up time for critical viewing.

This has nothing to do with breaking-in. It's true for the life of the PJ.

I did some measurements on my rs45 a while ago here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post23924726

It's the same on all models, including my current rs500. Spectracal did a study here http://www.spectracal.com/downloads/...s%20Enough.pdf that reaches the same conclusion for most display technologies.

So for best results, wait 45-60mn before calibrating, and at least 15-20mn before watching. Otherwise you're not making the most of the PJ.

Last edited by Manni01; 12-12-2016 at 12:31 AM.
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post #17744 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
45mn is the recommended warm-up time on these. In fact, one hour warm-up before calibration/measurements if you want 100% repeatable results (provided stable temp in the room otherwise it goes on drifting). Within the first 20mn, everything drifts significantly (don't look at the graphs below if you don't want to warm-up your PJ, you'd be horrified). 30mn is the minimum warm-up time for critical viewing.

This has nothing to do with breaking-in. It's true for the life of the PJ.

I did some measurements on my rs45 a while ago here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post23924726

It's the same on all models, including my current rs500. Spectracal did a study here http://www.spectracal.com/downloads/...s%20Enough.pdf that reaches the same conclusion for most display technologies.

So for best results, wait 45-60mn before calibrating, and at least 15-20mn before watching. Otherwise you're not making the most of the PJ.
Thanks Manni, appreciate the constructive feedback Sir...muchly appreciated...good thing I/my wife wasn't imagining the greatly improved video 45 min into the flick...it is "dramatically" different from first firing up to the point where I say "that doesn't look very good" to the point where I say "wow, that almost looks 3D"...

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post #17745 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
So what is SDR 2020 exactly? A way to soup-up to HDR regular 1080p material?
It's forcing/causing the player to convert from the HDR EOTF to an SDR EOTF (Electro Optic Transfer Function), essentially so the JVC doesn't disable the DI.
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post #17746 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
The Xbox One S does not output BT.2020 SDR even with an HDFury Integral. Paraphrasing HDFury's reply regarding BT.2020 SDR and Xbox in the Integral thread... You need a real UHD player. Sorry.
Ha, ok, good to know.
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post #17747 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 05:49 AM
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It's forcing/causing the player to convert from the HDR EOTF to an SDR EOTF (Electro Optic Transfer Function), essentially so the JVC doesn't disable the DI.
Ah, ok so basically it's making the the UHD player think it needs to downscale the 4K to 1080p and feed it to the projector, but then the JVC will keep using DI since it's getting 1080p signal.
I'm assuming then, that the JVC if receiving a 4K signal disables it's DI? And that then the whole point is to keep using the DI?
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post #17748 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 05:54 AM
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Does using the JVC Calibration software with a Spyder sensor provide a signfiicant enough improovement in calibration over doing a calibration manually (off the screen) with an i1d3 sensor and Calman or HCFR software?

Last edited by Sittler27; 12-12-2016 at 06:01 AM.
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post #17749 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
Denon X6300H. No audio when plug in HDMI cable
Hi,
I just hooked up a new Denon X6300H. I can't get the audio and video to both work at the same time. When connected to my Blu-ray player, if I plug the HDMI cable from my projector (JVC RS600) into the ARC HDMI port, the video displays but it kills the audio completely. If I unplug the HDMI cable from the receiver, the audio comes back. My Blu-ray player is an older Sony. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Probably you have the Denon set to pass through the audio to the TV (projector). You need to set that option to "AMP".
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post #17750 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Ah, ok so basically it's making the the UHD player think it needs to downscale the 4K to 1080p and feed it to the projector, but then the JVC will keep using DI since it's getting 1080p signal.
I'm assuming then, that the JVC if receiving a 4K signal disables it's DI? And that then the whole point is to keep using the DI?
No it has nothing to do with 4K or not, it's not downscaling to 1080p, it's still 4K, with Rec.2020 colorspace, but using an SDR (Gamma) EOTF instead of an HDR (SMPTE 2084, PQ) EOTF. JVCs disable the DI when they detect HDR content.

It requires (at the moment) an HD Fury Integral, or Linker, and a capable UHD player like the Panasonic or Samsung (possibly Philips). The Integral/Linker change the EDID the player sees so it thinks the display supports WCG but not HDR, which causes the player to remap the HDR (PQ) to SDR (Gamma).
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post #17751 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Ah, ok so basically it's making the the UHD player think it needs to downscale the 4K to 1080p and feed it to the projector, but then the JVC will keep using DI since it's getting 1080p signal.
I'm assuming then, that the JVC if receiving a 4K signal disables it's DI? And that then the whole point is to keep using the DI?
Not quite,

The HDFury Integral changes the EDID handshake between the Player/Projector
When you choose to play a 4K/UHD/HDR BT.2020 movie in SDR, The HDFury simply tells your player
that the end display is not HDR compatible, and turns off the "Flag" for HDR while still maintaining the 4K BT.2020 and Wide Color Gamut

AFAIK, the Panasonic UB900 is the only current player that can re-map the colors correctly for this function.

Regular bluray is 1080p BT.709, There would be no benefit to purchasing a 4K UHD bluray if that's all the HDFury did.
If you choose to turn off HDR in the player only (without an HDFury) then yes the output is simply SDR BT.709 (same as 1080 bluray)



Most find using HDR on a projector comes up short on brightness,
So you either have to crank your brightness up (and use High Lamp mode) to elevate the dark shadow details.
This, along with disabling the JVC's dynamic iris will raise the black floor and make the black's appear grey.

HDR BT.2020 4K/UHD


SDR BT.2020 4K/UHD (HDFury EDID 10)
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Last edited by PioManiac; 12-12-2016 at 06:25 AM.
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post #17752 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I dont have a dimness issue at all with those settings. I could even go down more on the dynamic slider if I wanted to. I ended up using -1 too recently.

What film or charts were you using to check clipping?

Is your machine set up right?

Wonderful in that I think we're onto something. The -3, +1 and -1 on DRC must be the right move since we both came to the same conclusion.

On film or charts, I simply used scenes from Deadpool and Lucy and was able to resolve the greatest amount of detail with those settings. I don't know...it's difficult to explain... it seems the image's highlights have less pop, but the image just looks correct and as consistent as a 1080P master. In dark room viewing, after about 20 minutes, I don't know if my eyes adjusted or if the panels/lamp stabilized, but the picture then appeared brighter and to my comfort.

About my machine set up...well, I'm projecting onto a 2.35:1 125 inch, 1.2 gain Stewart screen. I used Autocal V7 and then tweaked, all using 2.3 gamma, BT2020, 6500K, iris at -5 w/standard input.

I also tried Panny settings added to the above:
Luma high +1, Luma mid +2, Chroma +1. With some material, those settings produced a jaw-dropping image with increased sharpness and clarity...with others it created a bit of added noise, so I left those at 0.

Are you using 2.3 gamma? And what do you have your iris set to now for SDR?
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post #17753 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 07:14 AM
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Not quite,

AFAIK, the Panasonic UB900 is the only current player that can re-map the colors correctly for this function.
Absolutely! The UB900 is incredible in its mapping capabilities. I had all three currently available UHD players, and the UB900 outperformed the others in that area.

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Not quite,

Regular bluray is 1080p BT.709, There would be no benefit to purchasing a 4K UHD bluray if that's all the HDFury did.
So true, at least in substance, because once you take out HDR and WCG, I think the remaining benefits of having a cleaner image and slightly better sound resolution that UHD discs can carry would NOT put me over the price hurdle to purchase the UHD form.
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post #17754 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Absolutely! The UB900 is incredible in its mapping capabilities. I had all three currently available UHD players, and the UB900 outperformed the others in that area.



So true, at least in substance, because once you take out HDR and WCG, I think the remaining benefits of having a cleaner image and slightly better sound resolution that UHD discs can carry would NOT put me over the price hurdle to purchase the UHD form.
What about using an HTPC vs a "real" UHD player? To be honest, what I really want is a player that can stream in 4K UHD/HR, as that is how I watch 90% of my content (streamed from my NAS).

Currently using Plex on an Xbox One, but wondering in order to play HDR/SDR if my best option is to build an HTPC running Kodi and using HDFury Integral from it.
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post #17755 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
What about using an HTPC vs a "real" UHD player? To be honest, what I really want is a player that can stream in 4K UHD/HR, as that is how I watch 90% of my content (streamed from my NAS).

Currently using Plex on an Xbox One, but wondering in order to play HDR/SDR if my best option is to build an HTPC running Kodi and using HDFury Integral from it.
Actually, thinking maybe for my purposes (mainly streaming), wonder if an Nvidia Shield 16GB is best option since it now passes the high-end codecs?

Would the Shield allow for the whole SDR 2020 thing to happen with HD Fury? Or would I still need a "real" 4K player?


Thanks.
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post #17756 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 08:53 AM
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Actually, thinking maybe for my purposes (mainly streaming), wonder if an Nvidia Shield 16GB is best option since it now passes the high-end codecs?

Would the Shield allow for the whole SDR 2020 thing to happen with HD Fury? Or would I still need a "real" 4K player?


Thanks.
I thought we were discussing BT.2020 SDR from UHD discs. Streaming is a whole other thing.

The Amazon App in the Samsung player will send BT.2020 HDR from Amazon Video. I was able to get the Samsung player to convert the BT.2020 HDR to BT.2020 SDR by selecting a non-HDR BT.2020 EDID in the Integral when the Amazon App was already active. Otherwise if the Amazon App sees the non-HDR EDID, it will sent REC709 instead of BT.2020. It seems the App did not see the dynamic EDID change but the Samsung player does.

This may be a quirk in the Amazon App in the Samsung that may or may not be present in other streaming Apps in other players. So I don't know what the Nvidia Shield or Roku will do.

Just remember that the HDR to SDR conversion takes place in the player, not the Integral. So whatever source player you are using would need to be able to do the BT.2020 HDR to BT.2020 SDR conversion when it sees the display is able to accept BT.2020 but not HDR. I expect most streaming players cannot and will convert to REC709 SDR in this case.

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Diva/Vertex/Linker/Integral

Last edited by claw; 12-12-2016 at 09:01 AM.
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post #17757 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
What about using an HTPC vs a "real" UHD player? To be honest, what I really want is a player that can stream in 4K UHD/HR, as that is how I watch 90% of my content (streamed from my NAS).
There's no way to play UHD Blu-ray on a PC yet, and I have my doubts Cyberlink will be any good when it eventually comes out.
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post #17758 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 09:03 AM
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There's no way to play UHD Blu-ray on a PC yet, and I have my doubts Cyberlink will be any good when it eventually comes out.
Netflix HDR with Windows 10 and its Edge browser is the only announced PC based HDR capability that I know of.

CJ
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post #17759 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 09:20 AM
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Actually, thinking maybe for my purposes (mainly streaming), wonder if an Nvidia Shield 16GB is best option since it now passes the high-end codecs?

Would the Shield allow for the whole SDR 2020 thing to happen with HD Fury? Or would I still need a "real" 4K player?


Thanks.
Hi. Sorry, I was discussing discs. Anyway, I have no experience with the Shield. Perhaps others here can chime in on that.
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post #17760 of 32136 Old 12-12-2016, 09:48 AM
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Manni, hi I was looking at this during the week based on Kris's feedback on the blown highlights in Deadpool UHD SDR. The scene where he is sitting on the bridge in the beginning where there is a sky full of clouds. It does look like -6 was the magic number to resolve all the detail in the clouds.

Did you make any other changes on the player's contrast/brightness or only -6 on the DR setting?

Hey Zombie, I just sent you a PM.
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