Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 700 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 84662Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #20971 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 06:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wookii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,404
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2840 Post(s)
Liked: 2041
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Yup, like I said, I hope it doesn't wig out.



I think it comes down to where the DI operates. If the DI looks at the incoming signal, and does it's determination and gamma manipulation there, I think there's a good chance that the DI will be useless with an HDR input.

However, if the DI works after the input signal has been converted to the panel response by the specified gamma curve, then I think it will be fine. After all, on screen (and thus, at the panel) proper HDR and SDR+WCG both have similar overall levels.

So overall, I'm cautiously optimistic.

That was my thinking too - I'd have thought the very bottom portion of these new gamma curves that the DI algorithm presumably will look at (presumably based on APL or similar) tracks in a similar way to other standard gamma curves, so I would have thought the DI would operate in a similar manor as it does with SDR content, no? (Hoping so)
Wookii is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #20972 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 307 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5346 Post(s)
Liked: 5385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
That was my thinking too - I'd have thought the very bottom portion of these new gamma curves that the DI algorithm presumably will look at (presumably based on APL or similar) tracks in a similar way to other standard gamma curves, so I would have thought the DI would operate in a similar manor as it does with SDR content, no? (Hoping so)
Fingers crossed, we should be finding out soon if the devs don't run into an unexpected issue...

Last edited by Manni01; 02-16-2017 at 07:13 AM.
Manni01 is offline  
post #20973 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
claw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: L'Etoile du Nord
Posts: 2,796
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2180 Post(s)
Liked: 2041
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
I am a novice with respect to this stuff. I only used the equations from 2390 to create a routine so I could plot the transfer function for my situation. I was trying to get opinions on 2390 from others and manni saw my plot and asked me to do one for his specific case. (I wish I understood this better.)

But, in reading that section, I think that is more about how perceived hue will change when the luminenance changes, rather than saturation.
I will say one thing about the ST2390 gamma; it allowed me to watch Arrival in HDR. With any of the other gammas, the picture was far too dark.
Manni01 likes this.

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Vertex/Linker/Integral
claw is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #20974 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
krichter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Earth (most days!)
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckgolf View Post
Manni says to make sure you resolve up to 4000 nits with patterns. And if you clip lower the curve is no longer correct. 🤓

Oh wow thanks I just have missed that and extrapolated what he did to all our prev conversations of using Masciola to the target 1000-1200 nits.

With Manni's curve I use the RM clipping patterns to get up to the max range? Sorry having a hard time absorbing this.

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


==> Our 4K/3D Immersive Theater
krichter1 is offline  
post #20975 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,122
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 928 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post
My original bulb was at 1,525 hours and I bought a new bulb and put 100 hours on it before Chad got here. If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have bought a new bulb as these bulbs hold their brightness very well. I only gained 1 Iris click by installing new bulb. They are also rated at 4,500 hours for low and 3,500 hours for high so I say save your money by not buying a new bulb.

Mike
Thanks a lot Mike. This puts me at ease
harrisu is offline  
post #20976 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
krichter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Earth (most days!)
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckgolf View Post
Manni says to make sure you resolve up to 4000 nits with patterns. And if you clip lower the curve is no longer correct. 🤓

Oh wow thanks I must have missed that and extrapolated what he did to all our prev conversations of using Masciola clipping patterns to the target 1000-1200 nits.

So with Manni's curve I use the RM clipping patterns to get up to the max range? Sorry having a hard time absorbing this.
Manni01 likes this.

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


==> Our 4K/3D Immersive Theater

Last edited by krichter1; 02-16-2017 at 07:42 AM.
krichter1 is offline  
post #20977 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:32 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15,120
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2753 Post(s)
Liked: 2655
Ok, Manni's curves sound exciting, but to put it back into perspective for those of us on the sidelines: obviously we are not going to get the full HDR experience on the projector as with a flat panel...but with Manni's curves we are getting *some* of the HDR experience, correct? (E.g. somewhat more brilliant/realistic contrast and somewhat richer color than from normal blu-ray).

Looking at HDR on the OLEDS in the store....I'll take anything we can get :-)
R Harkness is offline  
post #20978 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:39 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,003
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2409 Post(s)
Liked: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Overall, I find the HDR picture vastly superior to the SDR picture, despite the raised absolute black floor (not obvious perceptually 90% of the time) and the loss of on/off. It takes some time for our dilated pupils to adapt to black, and until they do even the raised black we get now in HDR will look black, which wasn't the case when it was raised even further because of the Dark Gamma Control bug.

Anyway, I've just heard back from Ken, the HD Fury developers are implementing what we need - a "trip metadata only" feature into both the linker and the Integral. I will give more details when we get the new f/w and I've tested it, which should be very soon [EDIT: I hear it could be as soon as in a few hours!]
Thanks for all the work you put into this, it's a lot to take in though... I will have to go back and read it all. I hope they finalize / fix all the gamma issues to make it a bit simpler in next year's models, though it's good you gave us a gamma curve to import. I don't own the new JVC just yet, but I'm on the purchasing block, just trying to dump some old projectors...

Everyone lambast'd me in the other thread about a year ago for saying you would see a difference with HDR and projectors that goes beyond the wider color. I was run out of the thread and called a newb that didn't understand, pretty much the entire forum didn't understand. I left the forums because I was tired of arguing about non-linear gamma with people. I do a lot of gamma editing directly in code at work, but I haven't tackled all the new gamma nuances with projectors yet and the HDR standard. What a pain this could be, but I guess fun to try to get it right...

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 02-16-2017 at 07:46 AM.
coderguy is offline  
post #20979 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 307 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5346 Post(s)
Liked: 5385
Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
I will say one thing about the ST2390 gamma; it allowed me to watch Arrival in HDR. With any of the other gammas, the picture was far too dark.
Glad there was one use for it

Three questions:
  1. Is Arrival the only titles which look too dark? It sounds like it's been poorly mastered, so it must be an exception. Unfortunately, I don't have it, nor do I have its metadata.
  2. How does 200-400-4000 works compared to ST2390 with Arrival?
  3. If you can compare, do you get better results in SDR BT2020, and does it look more or less saturated that with any of the curves above?

It would be nice to know if Arrival is a one-off (poor grading), and if it isn't which other titles have a similar issue (only for those who can use the existing curves without finding them too dark).
Manni01 is offline  
post #20980 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
krichter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Earth (most days!)
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Ok, Manni's curves sound exciting, but to put it back into perspective for those of us on the sidelines: obviously we are not going to get the full HDR experience on the projector as with a flat panel...but with Manni's curves we are getting *some* of the HDR experience, correct? (E.g. somewhat more brilliant/realistic contrast and somewhat richer color than from normal blu-ray).

Looking at HDR on the OLEDS in the store....I'll take anything we can get :-)

We get *most* of the intended as designed HDR experience and just like for the reasons you buy a PJ size over a backlit TV... the experience even with any shortcomings is still awesome at this larger size.

This has been said many times here Rich and with you having more than ~80-90% of what you need to experience this for yourself I think it's just time you shart or get off the pot man!

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


==> Our 4K/3D Immersive Theater
krichter1 is offline  
post #20981 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:50 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,251
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2520 Post(s)
Liked: 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Thanks for all the work you put into this, it's a lot to take in though... I will have to go back and read it all. I hope they finalize / fix all the gamma issues to make it a bit simpler in next year's models, though it's good you gave us a gamma curve to import. I don't own the new JVC just yet, but I'm on the purchasing block, just trying to dump some old projectors...

Everyone lambast'd me in the other thread about a year ago for saying you would see a difference with HDR and projectors that goes beyond the wider color. I was run out of the thread and called a newb that didn't understand, pretty much the entire forum didn't understand. I left the forums because I was tired of arguing about non-linear gamma with people. I do a lot of gamma editing directly in code at work, but I haven't tackled all the new gamma nuances with projectors yet and the HDR standard. What a pain this could be, but I guess fun to try to get it right...
Mind you though, there are still going to be cases such as larger screens and/or situations where the brightness is lower to where SDR + 2020 may be more desirable.
DavidHir is offline  
post #20982 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 307 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5346 Post(s)
Liked: 5385
Selecting a curve and setting contrast

Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Oh wow thanks I must have missed that and extrapolated what he did to all our prev conversations of using Masciola clipping patterns to the target 1000-1200 nits.

So with Manni's curve I use the RM clipping patterns to get up to the max range? Sorry having a hard time absorbing this.
Yes, you set contrast to resolve the nits level indicated on the last number in the file name.

In fact you should set contrast to resolve 4000nits permanently and use a different curve if you really want to clip lower, but I don't find this necessary at all.

So my recommendation is to select one of the universal curves (ending in 4000), set contrast to resolve just under 4000nits, and enjoy all your titles without clipping any detail and with an optimal brightness

I use xxx-1100-4000 because that's the right compromise for me, so I have 200-1100-4000 in high lamp and 140-1100-4000V2 in low lamp. that's only because I'm a geek. I could use either curve in either mode, I wouldn't see the difference. In other words, the target (second number) makes a much bigger difference than the reference (first number).

If you have a larger screen use a xxx-1000-4000 (or the extreme 200-400-4000 that I wouldn't recommend, or the ST2390 curve).

If you have a small screen or want to favor saturation over brightness, try the 200-1200-4000 curve.
sonichart, krichter1 and laugsbach like this.

Last edited by Manni01; 02-16-2017 at 07:58 AM.
Manni01 is offline  
post #20983 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 07:53 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,003
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2409 Post(s)
Liked: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Mind you though, there are still going to be cases such as larger screens and/or situations where the ftL off the screen is lower to where SDR + 2022 may be more desirable.
Right, there are always going to be specific use cases, but it was argued in absolutes, and the arguments became extremely foolish to the point where I even showed people sample images of what happens when you change gamma curves in a drastic manner. Anyhow, I really don't care, I'm just going to try to avoid the never-ending arguments that seem to occur in this forum.
DavidHir likes this.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
post #20984 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 08:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
krichter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Earth (most days!)
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Glad it works for you, but the others are correct, if you get a 4000 curve with a roll-off, there is no need to adjust the clipping point to 1000nits with the contrast setting, you are destroying the curve doing this.


The whole point of the 4000nits curve (with a roll off) is that they resolve up to 4000nits without a penalty in brightness for the overall picture. That's why I call them universal curves: you use one curve for all titles and you resolve up to 4000nits when necessary.


If you really want to clip lower, which I don't recommend anymore, use a curve that ends in 1000 or 1100, but you have to change curve everytime you play a title mastered above that, which is a real hassle for little to no benefit (and some artifacts).


My advice today is to use a 4000 curve and use only that one. when setting contrast, always set contrast to the last number in the curve name, otherwise you are going against the intent of the curve.

I have posted three more since that one, you're behind


To clarify again, all curves ending with 4000 are universal curves. They are the only curves I recommend using, and you should set contrast to resolve up to 4000nits or slightly below. Unless you are far from that, I would not adjust contrast. I would NEVER adjust contrast to clip lower than that. These curves should need almost no adjustments in contrast on well configured, good players like the Panny. I have contrast at zero on the PJ and at -1 on the Panny for these curves.


Good luck!

Thanks bud and sorry if you had to readdress this... guess thats what I get for trying to "catch up" after being on the road & swamped for 4 days. Either way what I saw yesterday looked awesome even clipping at 1000!

So everyone using your custom gamma is essentially running their Br/Ct @ 0 (both source & target)? I know you can't speak to the Oppo but my confusion comes from what you're saying vs what I did to clip to 1000nits... It did not look "off" to me in any way shape or form (and I know my system as well as I know my wife... any change for the bad would be immediately detected! )

Watched the 4K/60p presentation of Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk and holy crap was that a TRIP! Like Claw? said earlier... not sure I'd want to watch movies this way long term but you should own this movie just for the realistic experience alone (reminds me of watching those uTube full 4K 60 videos... its like a live shot for 2+ hours!). We're going to watch the 3D version this weekend... being ex-military and having a Marine son too we thought the movie was great!
Manni01 likes this.

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


==> Our 4K/3D Immersive Theater

Last edited by krichter1; 02-16-2017 at 08:15 AM.
krichter1 is offline  
post #20985 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 08:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
claw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: L'Etoile du Nord
Posts: 2,796
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2180 Post(s)
Liked: 2041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Glad there was one use for it

Three questions:
  1. Is Arrival the only titles which look too dark? It sounds like it's been poorly mastered, so it must be an exception. Unfortunately, I don't have it, nor do I have its metadata.
  2. How does 200-400-4000 works compared to ST2390 with Arrival?
  3. If you can compare, do you get better results in SDR BT2020, and does it look more or less saturated that with any of the curves above?

It would be nice to know if Arrival is a one-off (poor grading), and if it isn't which other titles have a similar issue (only for those who can use the existing curves without finding them too dark).
It seems it was intended...

http://www.thedigitalbits.com//item/arrival-uhd-bd

In terms of image quality, this is a very dark and gray looking film, with diffuse lighting of the type you’d experience on a gloomy and overcast afternoon. By intent, it’s been lit with mostly natural light sources and then almost like black and white film, where characters are often backlit or have their faces in shadow. On top of this, the differences in color timing choices between the Blu-ray and 4K are striking – the 4K presentation has been pushed even darker. I’ve had the chance to speak with sources involved in mastering and quality control at Paramount about this transfer, and my suspicion that these were deliberate creative choices made by the filmmakers, and not a technical error, was confirmed.
krichter1 and Manni01 like this.

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Vertex/Linker/Integral
claw is offline  
post #20986 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 08:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sonichart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: East Dundee, IL
Posts: 1,121
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 689 Post(s)
Liked: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Thanks bud and sorry if you had to readdress this... guess thats what I get for trying to "catch up" after being on the road & swamped for 4 days. Either way what I saw yesterday looked awesome even clipping at 1000!

So everyone using your custom gamma is essentially running their Br/Ct @ 0 (both source & target)? I know you can't speak to the Oppo but my confusion comes from what you're saying vs what I did to clip to 1000nits... It did not look "off" to me in any way shape or form (and I know my system as well as I know my wife... any change for the bad would be immediately detected! )

Watched the 4K/60p presentation of Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk and holy crap was that a TRIP! Like Claw? said earlier... not sure I'd want to watch movies this way long term but you should own this movie just for the realistic experience alone (reminds me of watching those uTube full 4K 60 videos... its like a live shot for 2+ hours!). We're going to watch the 3D version this weekend... being ex-military and having a Marine son too we thought the movie was great!
Not sure if you saw my post or not K :50804289
krichter1 likes this.

JVC RS600 ¤ 130" Wide Seymour XD 2.35:1
Denon x4200 ¤ Onkyo M5010 ¤ iNuke 3000 ¤ 7.2.2
HTPC GTX1080 + MadVR is my master now ¤ Zidoo X8
sonichart is offline  
post #20987 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 08:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,959
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1564 Post(s)
Liked: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post


Anyway, I've just heard back from Ken, the HD Fury developers are implementing what we need - a "trip metadata only" feature into both the linker and the Integral. I will give more details when we get the new f/w and I've tested it, which should be very soon [EDIT: I hear it could be as soon as in a few hours!]

Sorry, what will this do?

Sony 85900F
Paradigm Prestige 95, 55C, 15b
Dual JL Audio D110
Anthem 1120, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2
Triple black velvet bat cave
asharma is offline  
post #20988 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 08:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 307 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5346 Post(s)
Liked: 5385
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Thanks bud and sorry if you had to readdress this... guess thats what I get for trying to "catch up" after being on the road & swamped for 4 days. Either way what I saw yesterday looked awesome even clipping at 1000!

So everyone using your custom gamma is essentially running their Br/Ct @ 0 (both source & target)? I know you can't speak to the Oppo but my confusion comes from what you're saying vs what I did to clip to 1000nits... It did not look "off" to me in any way shape or form (and I know my system as well as I know my wife... any change for the bad would be immediately detected! )

Watched the 4K/60p presentation of Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk and holy crap was that a TRIP! Like Claw? said earlier... not sure I'd want to watch movies this way long term but you should own this movie just for the realistic experience alone (reminds me of watching those uTube full 4K 60 videos... its like a live shot for 2+ hours!). We're going to watch the 3D version this weekend... being ex-military and having a Marine son too we thought the movie was great!
Nothing looked off because you didn't watch a title mastered to 4000nits and having content going up to 4000nits.

Watch the explosion in Mad Max I use as a reference, or the one in Batman vs Superman Carbon used as a reference, and you will see that you are clipping detail above 1000nits.

Before, we had to do this to make the picture brighter. Now that we have a custom curve, we don't need to and the picture is much nicer and more accurate.

We can now use a single curve resolving up to 4000nits without losing brightness or detail. I know it sounds magical, but that's the way it is

So forget about the old ways, and embrace the new ways

You can waste some time trying to see the clipping you were getting before in the clips I mentioned, or you can trust me, forget about all this, and use a single curve ending with 4000 to watch all your content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
It seems it was intended...

http://www.thedigitalbits.com//item/arrival-uhd-bd

In terms of image quality, this is a very dark and gray looking film, with diffuse lighting of the type you’d experience on a gloomy and overcast afternoon. By intent, it’s been lit with mostly natural light sources and then almost like black and white film, where characters are often backlit or have their faces in shadow. On top of this, the differences in color timing choices between the Blu-ray and 4K are striking – the 4K presentation has been pushed even darker. I’ve had the chance to speak with sources involved in mastering and quality control at Paramount about this transfer, and my suspicion that these were deliberate creative choices made by the filmmakers, and not a technical error, was confirmed.


Thanks a lot for confirming this. It's a one-off then (or rather, we should watch it that way, if that's the way they want us to watch it).
krichter1 and skypop like this.

Last edited by Manni01; 02-16-2017 at 09:01 AM.
Manni01 is offline  
post #20989 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 09:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
krichter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Earth (most days!)
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Kevin, I'm using the V2 after trying a few others in High Lamp, IRIS -5. Since I have more than one HDR source and also find it much easier to dial in the settings in the JVC from the patterns on my HTPC, I set them in the JVC and not the Oppo. With that curve, my settings in the JVC are: CR -7, BR +16, Color +7. I also confirmed that the test patterns via USB on the Oppo look identical as from the HTPC with default/0 Picture Adjustment. My screen is bigger, so I'd probably be best served by a custom 125-750-4000 curve, but being lazy and busy enjoying the theater, I can easily live with the V2 curve.

I'd go that one and adjust BR/CR according using the clipping patterns for your setup in the Oppo if all you use it for is HDR and you don't have another HDR source like I do.

Thanks Steve (and others), I'll try this later today and see if it makes a difference. What did you use to resolve to +7 on color (Masciola color clipping or just bars w/ blue filter)?

I have the Roku as well for HDR so maybe using the JVC to provide a "universal" HDR setting makes more sense.
stevenjw likes this.

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


==> Our 4K/3D Immersive Theater
krichter1 is offline  
post #20990 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 09:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
krichter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Earth (most days!)
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked: 2361
WowEE!

Did you guys see this slated for next month!?

BoioioioiOING!


Spoiler!
sonichart and Manni01 like this.

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


==> Our 4K/3D Immersive Theater
krichter1 is offline  
post #20991 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 09:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,959
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1564 Post(s)
Liked: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Sorry, what will this do?

Sorry, got the answer...very cool!!!!!!!!

Sony 85900F
Paradigm Prestige 95, 55C, 15b
Dual JL Audio D110
Anthem 1120, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2
Triple black velvet bat cave
asharma is offline  
post #20992 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 09:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
claw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: L'Etoile du Nord
Posts: 2,796
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2180 Post(s)
Liked: 2041
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Did you guys see this slated for next month!?

BoioioioiOING!
Yes, but they are releasing the most recent titles first. The earlier titles will be released later. Being one of the few on this planet that have not viewed any of them, I will have to wait.
sonichart and Dave Vaughn like this.

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Vertex/Linker/Integral
claw is offline  
post #20993 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 09:21 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 23,130
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4156 Post(s)
Liked: 2384
Quote:
Originally Posted by fingersdlp View Post
I thought when I tried some custom curves I had the iris enabled? Was I mistaken? I will try again tonight and pay closer attention but can someone confirm if the iris is/should be disabled when switching to the custom gamma from the auto HDR mode? EDIT - I have the 520 if that matters.
As I understand it, the projector disables the iris (and if you had it in an Auto mode, it opens the iris all the way) whenever it sees a real HDR signal, regardless of what you set the gamma to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Of course the absolute black floor is raised (and it's even more for me, I get 65nits in SDR Rec-709 in low lamp iris -13, and I target 200nits in HDR in high lamp iris fully open).

Believe me, if you stare at a black pattern, the difference is rather obvious (although much less with the custom curves as we're not raising the black floor more than we had to).

I'm talking about perceived on/off and black floor.
Understood and agreed. Before, with HDR, black was just a murky gray mess. With these new curves it's not bad, but I need to actually watch a few movies with it and see what I think.

I shouldn't complain too much, even at it's worst, my RS600's black levels are better than an RS4500

Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Oh wow thanks I just have missed that and extrapolated what he did to all our prev conversations of using Masciola to the target 1000-1200 nits.

With Manni's curve I use the RM clipping patterns to get up to the max range? Sorry having a hard time absorbing this.
Clipping at 1000-1200 before was a compromise because of the limitations of the built in Gamma D curve. Now we don't have that problem, so we can use one of the 4000 nit curves and not have to worry about fiddling with clipping from movie to movie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
So everyone using your custom gamma is essentially running their Br/Ct @ 0 (both source & target)? I know you can't speak to the Oppo but my confusion comes from what you're saying vs what I did to clip to 1000nits... It did not look "off" to me in any way shape or form (and I know my system as well as I know my wife... any change for the bad would be immediately detected! )
It's not so much "wrong" as unnecessary. With these custom curves we can clip at 4000 nits but not give up brightness for "Most Typical Objects" content. That means we can have one calibration for all HDR content and not have to constantly fiddle with settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Did you guys see this slated for next month!?
Interesting, but I'm going to wait for reviews before dropping a couple hundred dollars on 8 movies
krichter1 and Manni01 like this.
stanger89 is offline  
post #20994 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 09:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sonichart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: East Dundee, IL
Posts: 1,121
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 689 Post(s)
Liked: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Did you guys see this slated for next month!?

BoioioioiOING!


Spoiler!
Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Yes, but they are releasing the most recent titles first. The earlier titles will be released later. Being one of the few on this planet that have not viewed any of them, I will have to wait.
Hellyea-- I'm in the same boat as Claw, think i've only seen the first one.. but this one is definitely on the radar.

Why on earth would they release the newer movies ahead of the older ones? I wont be buying any of these UHD titles until the first movie is available.

JVC RS600 ¤ 130" Wide Seymour XD 2.35:1
Denon x4200 ¤ Onkyo M5010 ¤ iNuke 3000 ¤ 7.2.2
HTPC GTX1080 + MadVR is my master now ¤ Zidoo X8
sonichart is offline  
post #20995 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 10:00 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 15,710
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6581 Post(s)
Liked: 7613
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
As I understand it, the projector disables the iris (and if you had it in an Auto mode, it opens the iris all the way) whenever it sees a real HDR signal, regardless of what you set the gamma to.



Understood and agreed. Before, with HDR, black was just a murky gray mess. With these new curves it's not bad, but I need to actually watch a few movies with it and see what I think.

I shouldn't complain too much, even at it's worst, my RS600's black levels are better than an RS4500


Maybe, but at mid laser and -7 iris, I'm watching 16:9 content at 28 foot lamberts - for the next few thousand hours !
Dave Vaughn likes this.
Craig Peer is offline  
post #20996 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 10:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
krichter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Earth (most days!)
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonichart View Post
I imported these last night:
Custom1 140-1100-4000V2
Custom2 140-1100-1100
Custom3 140-1000-1000

I am in High Lamp Iris wide open on my 130" wide Seymour XD Screen. I believe real-world gain is around .9 - 1.0

IT WAS PAINFULLY BRIGHT lol

Left JVC BR and CR set to zero and put Color at +4.
In the Oppo, using Masciola patterns, I set brightness to +7 and left CR alone.

I had wifey help me out with the black clipping because I dont trust my eyes. +8 in brightness caused Ref Black to blink.. +6 crushed below 3%.

We then re-watched parts of the Revenant using Custom 3 (max luminence for Revenant is 1000 nits).

The first thing wife says "It looks like it's 3D" ... to which I responded "Is that a good thing or a bad thing???" .. "I don't know yet!" She responded.

I think it took time for both our eyes to adjust, but the opening scene with all the water reflections/highlights and tree trunks shadowed by the rising sun in the background. Boy there was detail in the shadows of the tree trunks that we simply did not see before. The picture looked great.

@Manni01 if you're ever in the Chicagoland area, I'd love to buy you a beer for efforts-- seriously some awesome stuff.

I cant even imagine what the picture will look like once I get a custom calibration for my theater in a couple months.

These Manni gamma curves, though, are certainly going to make the wait for a proper calibration more bearable-- as well as the wait for an Oppo FW that fixes Strip Metadata & DolbyVision.

Cheers!
Sorry Sonic I was working my way backwards today but yes thx for the feedback. Was there one over the other based on diff content you preferred or have you not gone thru enough yet to know?

And as far as Manni goes agreed! but... if he does ever come to Chicago to visit it'll be more than a beer I'll be buying him with everything he's meant to me in my HT life especially over the past 7 years (he'll get my VIP gentleman's club card with as much "FUN" as he can eat, drink, stand... or sit or lay)!!

I think it may be a good time to coordinate another Chicago AVS get together to have you over and check all this out with Tom (or anyone else interest in my area wanting to see what all the HubBub is about)!

And... neither one of you have seen all the Harry Potters!!??? (thats like not seeing LOTR or Marvel movies in your theater!!)

In the famous words of Tony Soprano you guys are Dead to me!

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


==> Our 4K/3D Immersive Theater

Last edited by krichter1; 02-16-2017 at 10:28 AM.
krichter1 is offline  
post #20997 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 10:17 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,003
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2409 Post(s)
Liked: 1302
Spare us the details of your Bromance, but I agree he has been one of the best contributors of this forum.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
post #20998 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 10:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
krichter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Earth (most days!)
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked: 2361
It's something you wouldn't understand anyhow.
Manni01 likes this.

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


==> Our 4K/3D Immersive Theater
krichter1 is offline  
post #20999 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 10:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 307 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5346 Post(s)
Liked: 5385
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Sorry Sonic I was working my way backwards today but yes thx for the feedback. Was there one over the other based on diff content you preferred or have you not gone thru enough yet to know?

And as far as Manni goes agreed! but... if he does ever come to Chicago to visit it'll be more than a beer I'll be buying him with everything he's meant to me in my HT life especially over the past 7 years (he'll get my VIP gentleman's club card with as much "FUN" as he can eat, drink, stand... or sit or lay)!!

I think it may be a good time to coordinate another Chicago AVS get together to have you over and check all this out with Tom (or anyone else interest in my area wanting to see what all the HubBub is about)!

And... neither one of you have seen all the Harry Potters!!??? (thats like not seeing LOTR or Marvel movies in your theater!!)

In the famous words of Tony Soprano you guys are Dead to me!
I have seen them all, in 2D and 3D for the last two. What do I win? Can't wait to watch them all over again with my daughter in UHD/HDR and hopefully Atmos or DTS:X...

I'm very curious to get to Chicago now with such a special treatment in store... I'll definitely let you know if I'm ever around
Dave Vaughn and krichter1 like this.
Manni01 is offline  
post #21000 of 31902 Old 02-16-2017, 10:47 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,003
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2409 Post(s)
Liked: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
It's something you wouldn't understand anyhow.
I know, I don't even even know my neighbors. They still think I'm weird because I live in the attic and rarely go outside, except with full flannel gear.
Tom Bley, Dave Vaughn and Manni01 like this.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
jvc-rs500u synch/display issue? , RS600

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off