Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 717 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21481 of 32368 Old 02-21-2017, 10:01 PM
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Possible Linker Issue?

So I have been using the Linker the last few days. All is great with normal bluray, HDR using custom curve and even SDR BT.2020 (with Integral). However tonight I wanted to compare some 3d Glasses and discovered that it might be causing an issue with the 3D signal. I could see the Panasonic menu but once I started the movie the screen went blue and reported no signal but I could hear the audio. I have stock settings in the linker. I only changed the new setting to remove the HDR flag and set it for HDCP 2.2 output.

My receiver has two outputs active for the input source so I run one thru the integral and then linker and then projector HDMI 1 and the other I just run straight from receiver to HDMI 2 of projector. Not had any reason to use it but on a whim I tried HDMI2 on projector and it was receiving the 3D signal. I know I had viewed 3D prior to putting the Linker in the mix (with the Integral in place - at least I think so). I did not bother to try and diagnose it much further as I had a work around. The linker should be in custom EDID / Default so that is 4k60-444 600MHz HDR BT.2020 All Sound. I may have to hook up a laptop so I can view what the Linker is seeing as its input and output but thought I would mention this to see if anyone else can confirm or tell me what I am missing.

EDIT: The menu on the panny is displayed in 4k60p I believe as I have 4k set for output but the 3D movie plays in 1080p24 as required. Not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Thanks

Last edited by fingersdlp; 02-21-2017 at 10:13 PM.
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post #21482 of 32368 Old 02-21-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Yes I am still having issues with the Linker and my Oppo.

I believe I found the cause of the purple tinted monochromatic picture that would usually happen at the start of disc playback. If I set custom color space of 4:2:2 I could no longer reproduce the purple issue. It seems to only occur with color space 4:4:4. I reported this to HDFury.

I resolved the Linker Disconnected errors by reloading the firmware to the Linker. The Linker did not report an error when I loaded it the first time but reloading seems to have addressed that issue.

Now that I resolved the monochromatic picture issue I have moved the Linker between the Oppo and AVR sending 4:2:2. That works the best so far. I still use EDID 2.

I now have my Samsung K8500 connected to the other Linker input so I can watch disabled HDR injection from Amazon Video 4K HDR content.

I cleared out the brightness and contrast settings I had in the RS500 for the JVC-800-600-4000 and JVC-600-400-4000 gammas and used the Masciola patterns to set the values in the Oppo instead. Both gammas ended up with the same settings in the Oppo which is convenient. Brightness +3 and Contrast -2 compared to the previous JVC values of +7 / -3. I am liking what I see with the JVC-800-600-4000 curve. The explosions and gun fire during the early scene in Jupiter where Mila Kunis is carried out the window were eye-searing.
I hope you guys DO "bleed" this all out as say what you want about Jupiter, I for one love that movie in my theater room and would love to see it in its intended HDR Glory... that and the already outstanding Atmos track would put it right up there at the top of my collection (my fingers crossed it works out for you guys (us!), so I can pull the trigger but either way CJ... your contributions here have been excellent... Thanks!).

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post #21483 of 32368 Old 02-21-2017, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
I hope you guys DO "bleed" this all out as say what you want about Jupiter, I for one love that movie in my theater room and would love to see it in its intended HDR Glory... that and the already outstanding Atmos track would put it right up there at the top of my collection (my fingers crossed it works out for you guys (us!), so I can pull the trigger but either way CJ... your contributions here have been excellent... Thanks!).
I did enjoy that 4K BR myself - a little guilty pleasure !
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post #21484 of 32368 Old 02-21-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
I hope you guys DO "bleed" this all out as say what you want about Jupiter, I for one love that movie in my theater room and would love to see it in its intended HDR Glory... that and the already outstanding Atmos track would put it right up there at the top of my collection (my fingers crossed it works out for you guys (us!), so I can pull the trigger but either way CJ... your contributions here have been excellent... Thanks!).
Yes, I am finally able to see Mila's face as it should be seen thanks to Manni! Manni's gamma and the working DI combined with the superb Atmos track make this disc one of my favorites from my collection now.
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JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Diva/Vertex/Linker/Integral

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post #21485 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
FWIW - mine wouldn't either until Manni reminded me you can't be using any IP control software (like iRule or Roomie etc...), when trying to use AutoCal.

Oh and your ?? about the Oppo yesterday... it's not "glitchy" at all (had a few hiccups on some titles & 3D but nothing after the new FW), just that I wish at the very least they could have fixed the black floor issue for SDR on this go round.
I see the Linker isn't working consistently with the Oppo though from the lads commenting on here. And we'd need that to get the DI back.

I bought the friggin Oppo for Strip Metadata, but the sands shifted to favour Mannis curves since then. .

I have a RMA for the Oppo and I could replace with a Panasonic - wondering if I should go for it. Plus it's 500 Euros less!

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post #21486 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD_666 View Post
If I use a contrast level such that the targets clip to 4000 ... would not a dark image remain?
Not if you have at least 100nits peak brightness and are using one of my curves. If it's one of yours, you're on your own

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD MAN View Post
Found this on the Calman Forum might help you out.

Stacey Spears wrote:
This sounds like a tone mapping problem with your projector. Note that HDR projection is not really a thing, which is why you are having trouble.

Lupin 3rd wrote:
Someone tells that only discs coded to 10'000nits uses all 1024 levels .... is it real? the other do not use all 1024 levels.
Is there any document that list all the coding mode and levels lost?


Yes it is real. Nothing would use 1024 levels though as 64-940 is the range that is used. 940 is 10,000 nits. Content is being mastered at 1,000 and 4,000 nits. 1,000 nits on the Sony BVM X300 and up to 4,000 nits on a Dolby Pulsar. The max code value used it based on the max nit level.

Just for your info:
100 nits is code value 509.
1,000 nits is code value 722.
4,000 nits is code value 854.

The majority of the picture information is under 100 nits or 77-509. Notice I use 77 instead of 64, this is because black on the mastering display has been 0.005 nits and not 0 nits. 0.005 is code value 77.

In the end, the display tone mapping algorithm handles the differences. You calibrate your display to its max capability. Then the display handles the rest. You don't adjust brightness or contrast to fix the content. Some displays have good tone mapping and some have poor tone mapping. I have a Sony Z9D and it has great tone mapping. The content has HDR metadata associated with it. This data should be passed to the display so it can know how to deal with the different mastering levels. This is not something you will do in calibration. You don't want to calibrate per disc anyway, that would be a nightmare.
With all the respect I have for Stacey, he has no interest in HDR on projectors and he has not seen a properly calibrated picture on an HDR projector (such as with these new curves) yet so he is of zero help here, until he changes his mind and decides to investigate further. Plus in this case he is wrong: according to the metadata (and the picture), half the films are mastered with a black level of zero nits (those mastered to 1000 or 1100nits), so do need to resolve down to level 68. The 0.005nits might have been true at the time he posted this, but it's only titles mastered to 4000nits which have this elevated black level during grading, due to the monitor used.

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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
It is so mild that it requires a measurement to see. If you can physically see it, you deserve a medal!

Only the Sony's were so bleeding obvious I knew something was wrong.
It is unit dependent, and it takes a while to take place. For some units, you'll get a significant gamma droop OOTB, for other it can take a few hundred hours to develop. When it's bad, gamma goes from 2.4 to as low as 1.8 or lower in the higher end of the curve, which completely kills the dimensionality of the picture. If you can't see it, it's because you haven't seen a unit with gamma droop yet. It's the main reason for the JVC Autocal, and it's usually why I have to run an autocal after 300 to 500 hours. The autocal usually corrects the effect entirely, at least for a while. It's not bulb dependant, it's panel dependant, so replacing the lamp doesn't make any difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Just an update to this comment, I'm not suggesting that everyone rush out and buy a Linker. I'm having several issues getting it to work correctly in my setup. I think CJ is too. It may be an issue with how it works with the Oppo (vs. the Panny), but I'm finding it also frustrating as it affects my HTPC too. I suggest following our posts in the Linker thread. That's where I'll be addressing issues. For me, the jury is still out with this piece of hardware. I'm not ready to send it back, but I'm also not happy with it either.
Sorry you're having issues with the linker. I have none of these issues, but I have a Panny and the linker is right before the PJ, at the end of the chain. I'm using the bottom input which I find more stable and I've disabled the autoswitch. It's rock solid in this configuration. The only issue I have is a loss of audio after about one hour (if I pause/resume, the sound comes back), which I have reported to HD Fury yesterday after I watched a first movie in full in HDR with the linker in the chain (I'm not 100% sure it's the linker but I never had that before). Apart from that, it's super stable. I hope it's not another incompatibility of the Oppo. HDFury should get to the bottom of it if it's the linker's fault. I need to watch another title (still little time at the moment after last week extravaganza) to see if I can reproduce.
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post #21487 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Not if you have at least 100nits peak brightness and are using one of my curves. If it's one of yours, you're on your own
.
I've used Arve's tool to generate my own curve. Peak Brightness: 122 nits to 144 nits on depending of I use a BT2020 or BT2020 NF. At last, I've used BT2020 because it produce better colors.

I've tried different multipliers. That is:

Multiplier 6 -> 732-513-4000
Multiplier 5 -> 610-427-4000
Multiplier 4 -> 488-342-4000

If I have to adjust whites to 4000 nits clipping, the resulting image is quite dim. And my Pana controls go to C=-9 and Br=12.
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post #21488 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD_666 View Post
I've used Arve's tool to generate my own curve. Peak Brightness: 122 nits to 144 nits on depending of I use a BT2020 or BT2020 NF. At last, I've used BT2020 because it produce better colors.

I've tried different multipliers. That is:

Multiplier 6 -> 732-513-4000
Multiplier 5 -> 610-427-4000
Multiplier 4 -> 488-342-4000

If I have to adjust whites to 4000 nits clipping, the resulting image is quite dim. And my Pana controls go to C=-9 and Br=12.
As I said, you're on your own.

That's not the way I use Arve's tool as it doesn't give good results when I follow his instructions. That's why I use the multiplier on the target, not on reference white. If you use one of my curves, resolving up to 4000nits shouldn't lead to a darker picture.

I don't have the time to investigate this at the moment, I've generated a curve that works, I'm using it for now. When I have more time, I'll try to get to the bottom of this, as I'd like to get more from the tool (it has great potential) but it's not a priority for me, I'm too late with work right now.



[EDIT: sorry the above is incorrect, but I don't have the time to think about this!]

Your contrast control goes way too low on the panny, and brightness way too high. There is something wrong in your settings somewhere.
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Last edited by Manni01; 02-22-2017 at 02:53 AM.
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post #21489 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD_666 View Post
I've used Arve's tool to generate my own curve. Peak Brightness: 122 nits to 144 nits on depending of I use a BT2020 or BT2020 NF. At last, I've used BT2020 because it produce better colors.

I've tried different multipliers. That is:

Multiplier 6 -> 732-513-4000
Multiplier 5 -> 610-427-4000
Multiplier 4 -> 488-342-4000

If I have to adjust whites to 4000 nits clipping, the resulting image is quite dim. And my Pana controls go to C=-9 and Br=12.
Are you keeping Reference White at 100 in each case?
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post #21490 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Are you keeping Reference White at 100 in each case?
He can't because he's using his real peakY as max brightness. The multiplier would be way too low if he didn't also change reference white.
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post #21491 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
He can't because he's using his real peakY as max brightness. The multiplier would be way too low if he didn't also change reference white.
No he's not if you look at his naming convention, he's applying a multiplier to it
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post #21492 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
No he's not if you look at his naming convention, he's applying a multiplier to it



EDIT: sorry you're right, I should be working
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post #21493 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
EDIT: sorry you're right, I should be working
Yep, get your work done!

I suspect he might be applying the multiplier to his Reference white too, rather than keeping it fixed, which is why the curves aren't looking progressively brighter.
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post #21494 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
As I said, you're on your own.

That's not the way I use Arve's tool as it doesn't give good results when I follow his instructions. That's why I use the multiplier on the target, not on reference white. If you use one of my curves, resolving up to 4000nits shouldn't lead to a darker picture.

I don't have the time to investigate this at the moment, I've generated a curve that works, I'm using it for now. When I have more time, I'll try to get to the bottom of this, as I'd like to get more from the tool (it has great potential) but it's not a priority for me, I'm too late with work right now.



[EDIT: sorry the above is incorrect, but I don't have the time to think about this!]

Your contrast control goes way too low on the panny, and brightness way too high. There is something wrong in your settings somewhere.
Ok, I understand you are busy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Are you keeping Reference White at 100 in each case?
I think I'm doing everything correctly. That is for instance:

Multiplier 5 & Max Peak 122 nits
  • Brightness Target 610 nits (5x 122)
  • Max Brightness 610 nits. Same value than Brightness Target (Arve´s tool)
  • Reference white 100 (Arve´s tool)
  • Soft clip start brightness 427 nits (Arve´s tool 610 x 70%)
  • Hard Clip Brightness 4000
  • Rest of Arve's tool parameters 1

After loading the Arve's tool generated gamma above, I adjust the Brightness and Contrast using a Sony's HDR disk patterns. An that´s all. May be I can have some parameter wrong in my JVC. I don't think so but I will inspect again. If you have any other more idea in addition to use your personal gammas it will be welcome.

Thanks in advance

Last edited by LTD_666; 02-22-2017 at 04:40 AM.
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post #21495 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD_666 View Post
Ok, I understand you are busy.



I think I'm doing everything correctly. That is for instance:

Multiplier 5 & Max Peak 122 nits
  • Brightness Target 610 nits (5x 122)
  • Max Brightness 610 nits. Same value than Brightness Target (Arve´s tool)
  • Reference white 100 (Arve´s tool)
  • Soft clip start brightness 427 nits (Arve´s tool 610 x 70%)
  • Hard Clip Brightness 4000
  • Rest of Arve's tool parameters 1

After loading the Arve's tool generated gamma above, I adjust the Brightness and Contrast using a Sony's HDR disk patterns. An that´s all. May be I can have some parameter wrong in my JVC. I don't think so but I will inspect again. If you have any other more idea than using your own gammas it will be welcome.

Thanks in advance
You should use my JVC-600-400-4000 curve and see if you have the same issue. There shouldn't be any difference unless you are using some wrong parameters elsewhere in the tool, but again I don't have the time to support Arve's tool or explain the parameters further. I can only tell you that I use 0.3-0.5, 0 and 1 for the last three parameters respectively. This could be improved on but I just don't have the time to explore this further at the moment, at least until I've caught up with work.

With a Panny, the B/C settings you use are extreme, so I'd check everything until you get something closer to C-1 / B+4 in the Panny and the JVC set to 0,0 with one of my curves. Once you've got that, you can experiment creating more curves, at least you'll know the baseline is correct. Make sure you use YCC 12bits 4:4:4 out of the Panny and HDMI standard (not RGB, not superwhite, not enhanced) anywhere. Check that the JVC displays YUV 12bits on the info screen.
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post #21496 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD_666;50957793)

I think I'm doing everything correctly. That is for instance:

[B
Multiplier[/B] 5 & Max Peak 122 nits
  • Brightness Target 610 nits (5x 122)
  • Max Brightness 610 nits. Same value than Brightness Target (Arve´s tool)
  • Reference white 100 (Arve´s tool)
  • Soft clip start brightness 427 nits (Arve´s tool 610 x 70%)
  • Hard Clip Brightness 4000
  • Rest of Arve's tool parameters 1

After loading the Arve's tool generated gamma above, I adjust the Brightness and Contrast using a Sony's HDR disk patterns. An that´s all. May be I can have some parameter wrong in my JVC. I don't think so but I will inspect again. If you have any other more idea in addition to use your personal gammas it will be welcome.

Thanks in advance
OK, to be honest I'm only just figuring this out myself, so I'm not sure i can really help much. If you are using 100 for Reference White on all three curves, they should be progressively brighter as you move from the 732 -> 610 -> 482 - is this the case?

Also, have you already ran JVC Autocal?

Just as an aside, I don't think you need to use your measured values and multipliers to generate the curves in Arves tool. You are adding a bit of additional complexity that isn't needed, just use an arbitrary starting value for Max Brightness, e.g. 800, 700, 600, 500 etc. The rest of your parameters are the same as I have used in terms of soft clip percentage, hard clip point etc.

For reference I get 188nits peak white, and the best curve for me so far has been 800-560-4000 in terms of overall brightness and punch. I only got to that curve just before bedtime last night, so I've not had chance to test against the clipping patterns etc, but certainly for me it gave a better overall level of brightness and vibrancy on The Shallows scenes I looked at.

EDIT: Sorry this post crossed with Manni's above.
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post #21497 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
. . . I can only tell you that I use 0.3-0.5, 0 and 1 for the last three parameters respectively. . . .
When you have more time, I'd be interested to understand the reasoning/theory behind your choice of settings there Manni. I'm currently using 1, 1, 1 purely because I don't fully understand how those settings will impact the image.
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post #21498 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
OK, to be honest I'm only just figuring this out myself, so I'm not sure i can really help much. If you are using 100 for Reference White on all three curves, they should be progressively brighter as you move from the 732 -> 610 -> 482 - is this the case?

Also, have you already ran JVC Autocal?

Just as an aside, I don't think you need to use your measured values and multipliers to generate the curves in Arves tool. You are adding a bit of additional complexity that isn't needed, just use an arbitrary starting value for Max Brightness, e.g. 800, 700, 600, 500 etc. The rest of your parameters are the same as I have used in terms of soft clip percentage, hard clip point etc.

For reference I get 188nits peak white, and the best curve for me so far has been 800-560-4000 in terms of overall brightness and punch. I only got to that curve just before bedtime last night, so I've not had chance to test against the clipping patterns etc, but certainly for me it gave a better overall level of brightness and vibrancy on The Shallows scenes I looked at.

EDIT: Sorry this post crossed with Manni's above.
Thanks for your answer. I understand you but I like to be rigorous, for me is as difficult to write 610 as 600. There isn't more complexity. I'll look for the problem.

Thanks again
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post #21499 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 05:35 AM
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Creating a custom gamut to correct the Spyder errors

Chab B has just posted his method to correct the Spyder errors in the JVC Autocal thread for those who have a more accurate meter. I linked to it in the first post. It's similar to the method I and others use, but I never took the time to detail it that way, plus he's providing his workflow and an excel spreadsheet to make it easier. Highly recommended if your Spyder causes one or more colors to be significantly undersaturated...
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Last edited by Manni01; 02-22-2017 at 06:32 AM.
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post #21500 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 06:16 AM
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This post really puts it all in line for me, combines the thousands of other posts and those from Manni that are needed to understand this...

Excellent summary from Stevenjw and Stranger89, post 21455

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post #21501 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 06:21 AM
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Somewhat off-topic, but relevant to the recent HDR Custom Curve discussions:

I have a Gretag-Macbeth i1 Meter, that I bought a number of years ago to calibrate my computer monitors. Can this be used to measure the lx/FtL I'm getting at my screen (to see how my brightness compared with what Manni suggests as the minimum to make HDR worthwhile)?

If so, what software would be used for this purpose? I have the Calibration software that came with it, but don't recall this option when I've used it to calibrate my monitors.

Thanks.

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post #21502 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD_666 View Post
After loading the Arve's tool generated gamma above, I adjust the Brightness and Contrast using a Sony's HDR disk patterns. An that´s all. May be I can have some parameter wrong in my JVC. I don't think so but I will inspect again. If you have any other more idea in addition to use your personal gammas it will be welcome.

Thanks in advance
I think it is possibly the Sony 7669 patterns. If I remember I was getting very odd results using them as well. I then got the R.Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite and the numbers became sane again. It might have something to do with using Pause on the Sony patterns (as they are not shown long enough) as I think that sometimes seemed to change what I saw on the screen. I literally saw the image shift once (stuff that was resolved got brighted out). In any event when I switched to the Masciola patterns they dialed in fine (Bright +2, Contrast -1 or -2).
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post #21503 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 06:39 AM
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Update on setting contrast/brightness in Panny vs JVC

So @Manni01 of course was right - my brightness setting of +6 (0 in Panny) in the JVC was raising my black floor, even tho it didn't make level 64 light up when viewing Ray's pattern when standing at the screen. I used my CA813 light meter at the pj to detect this. In Manni's case he couldn't go more than +1 in the JVC, but in my case I could go until +3 brightness without the black floor raising when using Manni's bright HDR custom gamma curve. As a result of this experiment, I went with brightness 0 in JVC and +5 in Panny, and the result is the right level of brightness to see 0.5% (8%) without raising the black floor at all. Likewise I could get the exact same result with +3 in JVC and +3 in Panny but I didn't see any reason to set it in both places so I just went with 0 in JVC and +5 in Panny.

The main lesson here is to ideally use a light meter, as opposed to using a pattern, to check whether your brightness setting is raising your black floor - because you may not be able to detect the difference by eye when using a pattern. And even tho one may say the black floor is only raised slightly if you can't pick it up in a pattern, that "slight" raise of the black floor is enough to seriously impact your on/off CR level and create a slight (or more) "haze" to otherwise inky blacks.
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post #21504 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 06:41 AM
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Spyder and Linker on the way - will hardly have before the weekend, if I do, it will be a busy one !

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post #21505 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 06:55 AM
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Spyder and Linker on the way - will hardly have before the weekend, if I do, it will be a busy one !
Great! My Linker should arrive tomorrow. I already have the Integral. Now that I have Manni's custom bright HDR gamma curves for large screens imported and my black/white clipping points all set, I am looking forward to seeing how HDR looks on my large screen (140"w 2.37 AR, AT 0.95 gain) with the dynamic iris enabled. In particular, I am curious to know whether there is ANY benefit to HDR in my setup (which only has about 50 nits max brightness), or if not, whether its at least as good as SDR BT2020...
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post #21506 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 07:06 AM
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Possible Linker Issue?

So I have been using the Linker the last few days. All is great with normal bluray, HDR using custom curve and even SDR BT.2020 (with Integral). However tonight I wanted to compare some 3d Glasses and discovered that it might be causing an issue with the 3D signal. I could see the Panasonic menu but once I started the movie the screen went blue and reported no signal but I could hear the audio. I have stock settings in the linker. I only changed the new setting to remove the HDR flag and set it for HDCP 2.2 output.

My receiver has two outputs active for the input source so I run one thru the integral and then linker and then projector HDMI 1 and the other I just run straight from receiver to HDMI 2 of projector. Not had any reason to use it but on a whim I tried HDMI2 on projector and it was receiving the 3D signal. I know I had viewed 3D prior to putting the Linker in the mix (with the Integral in place - at least I think so). I did not bother to try and diagnose it much further as I had a work around. The linker should be in custom EDID / Default so that is 4k60-444 600MHz HDR BT.2020 All Sound. I may have to hook up a laptop so I can view what the Linker is seeing as its input and output but thought I would mention this to see if anyone else can confirm or tell me what I am missing.

EDIT: The menu on the panny is displayed in 4k60p I believe as I have 4k set for output but the 3D movie plays in 1080p24 as required. Not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Thanks
Please use Linker thread to report issue not related to JVC and custom curves/HDR

Please set HDCP1.4, not HDCP2.2 and see if you have same issue. and if you have Integral upfront Linker, make sure Integral is also set to 1.4, otherwise you are creating situation with multiple signal handshake once converted to 1.4 and then back to 2.2, it cannot be reliable.

Note that PC timing, 1080i and 3D go in bypass mode, they are not processed, Linker cannot even change HDCP for those signals (only Integral can handle HDCP for those)
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post #21507 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
So @Manni01 of course was right - my brightness setting of +6 (0 in Panny) in the JVC was raising my black floor, even tho it didn't make level 64 light up when viewing Ray's pattern when standing at the screen. I used my CA813 light meter at the pj to detect this. In Manni's case he couldn't go more than +1 in the JVC, but in my case I could go until +3 brightness without the black floor raising when using Manni's bright HDR custom gamma curve. As a result of this experiment, I went with brightness 0 in JVC and +5 in Panny, and the result is the right level of brightness to see 0.5% (8%) without raising the black floor at all. Likewise I could get the exact same result with +3 in JVC and +3 in Panny but I didn't see any reason to set it in both places so I just went with 0 in JVC and +5 in Panny.



The main lesson here is to ideally use a light meter, as opposed to using a pattern, to check whether your brightness setting is raising your black floor - because you may not be able to detect the difference by eye when using a pattern. And even tho one may say the black floor is only raised slightly if you can't pick it up in a pattern, that "slight" raise of the black floor is enough to seriously impact your on/off CR level and create a slight (or more) "haze" to otherwise inky blacks.


Did you try showing a 0 pattern (all black) and using the hide button to see if you detect a raised black floor (the whole screen will be darker when the hide button is active)? I don't have a light meter and have been relying on th at method and would like to know if it's not sensitive enough for your example. I don't think a raised floor is supposed to make a difference in the black clipping pattern because it raises the rectangle along with the space between the rectangles.
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post #21508 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fingersdlp View Post
I think it is possibly the Sony 7669 patterns. If I remember I was getting very odd results using them as well. I then got the R.Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite and the numbers became sane again. It might have something to do with using Pause on the Sony patterns (as they are not shown long enough) as I think that sometimes seemed to change what I saw on the screen. I literally saw the image shift once (stuff that was resolved got brighted out). In any event when I switched to the Masciola patterns they dialed in fine (Bright +2, Contrast -1 or -2).
Thanks finger. What you say about patterns, seems quite strange. Really, the result, It's a big difference between one pattern and the other one. Have you verified this?

On the other hand. Do you set the white clipping also to 4000 as Manni says?

What Manni says, seems logic, of course, but it's logic too that if the peak brightness is the maximum bright that projector can project and the brightness target is the peak brightness adapted to the content scale, the projector never is going to show more than this although you set the clipping white above the the brightness target.
Possibly I am wrong and I would like, in order to understand it, that some one show me the point of my argument where I am wrong.

Thanks in advance
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post #21509 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 07:20 AM
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Using Arve's Custom Gamma Tool

OK, so the attached PDF is my take on using Arve’s Custom Gamma tool, with some basic instructions to generate basic curves. First off, many thanks to @arve for creating this excellent tool and also to @Manni01 for assisting at getting to this point with it.

It took me several sessions groping around in the dark to get to the point of being able to generate curves, mainly because key info has been spread through this thread, so hopefully this quick start guide may help others get to that point quicker. As I mention in the document, it is not intended as a definitive guide as I have only just learnt how to use it myself, and I don't yet fully understand how all the parameters affect the resulting image. It is intended therefore just as a quick start guide to get people up and running, generating and testing curves, who may find all the talk in this thread on the subject, a bit daunting.

Once you have used the tool a few times, it becomes very easy to use.

For those guys that are already using Arve's tool, if I have made any errors, omissions, or incorrect assumptions in the attached guide (which is quite likely), please drop me a PM and I will amend the document - there's no point littering this thread with any amendments (the idea is to keep them all in one place).
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File Type: pdf Gamma Curve Generation with Arve's Tool.pdf (462.9 KB, 1656 views)
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post #21510 of 32368 Old 02-22-2017, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I hope it's not another incompatibility of the Oppo.
Yes, All issues people can have with Oppo and Linker will fly away with next update (after we got Oppo player)
In the case of Steven, he also needs a new routine or HTPC mode like Integral, that's also planned.

Just one thing is important for us to be stated:

This current FW0.19 was planned to be release candidate once Roku Ultra and OPPO support was confirmed, but since we added the HDR disable option and offered it for everyone to experiment (so they don't have to wait for the RC FW), we now have to wait feedback to continue.
And of course, now people complains about Oppo support, fair enough, but we never had this player in hands yet. So guys, just keep the faith, all OPPO issues will be solved and any annoying issue well documented (means we can reproduce it) will be solved too, like we always did and like we will always do.

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